I don't know what to do

[DVM gone riding]

This in NO WAY justifies your mother's actions/comments, BUT your mother may feel like she needs to encourage you to have a relationship with your father to justify her own failure in finding you such a poor narcasitic sperm donor. By you having a relationship then she isn't such a failure. something to discuss with a therpist and when better your mother.

[zibazinski]

Ooh, that might be me. Married a narcissistic a-hole and I feel guilty about it!

[mollyanna58]

From reading your posts here and on other boards, I'd say your head is screwed on pretty straight, JD.

[zibazinski]

It's very hard to have toxic people who are relatives in your life. Friends you can cut out but family pressures you to have relationships with jeks just because they are family. I've always wondered why the family never calls the jerk out on being a jerk? I mean, wouldn't it be nice if when your dad bitched to your mom about you being mean, she'd have said, you are a jerk, what'd you expect?

[Deleted]

I learned far too late in life that the best way to deal with toxic people was to get as far away from them as possible. As an independent adult you have every right to decide whether or not you want your father in your life.

I raised a child with a man who eventually started making our life hell because of his drinking, financial irresponsibility, controlling behavior and verbal abuse. We divorced when DS was 12 and although they occasionally saw each other, my Ex and DS never had a really good relationship. My Ex was living in a crappy motel and he'd beg DS to bring money (from mowing our lawn) and food. I think the last time they saw each other was when DS was maybe 15. We moved away 3 years later and while DS occasionally wondered aloud how his father was doing, life went on pretty darn well without him. Even when my Ex died 2 years ago, DS got through it with very little trauma, and later went up to NJ to distribute his dad's ashes over the Atlantic.

My point with this story: sometimes the best thing you can do for your sanity is to cut a parent out of your life. Sure it sucks, but it's better than letting them ruin it.

[wvugurl26]

I'm sorry you have to deal with this garbage with him and your mom mid. He's a sperm donor not a father. I know on my phone I can choose to send calls from numbers straight to voicemail.

As for not bad mouthing the other parent, well I'm thankful my dad will step up when my mother has absolutely crossed a line. I don't think telling your daughter that she isn't a bitch is bad mouthing her father.

Hugs to you and I think you are a pretty good person. He's just mad because you won't be his dancing puppet anymore.

[endofera]

Dads don't send texts like that to their daughters. You should never have to read a text like that from anyone. Please block his number - I hate the thought of you getting any more texts like that. I have Virgin Mobile and can go online and enter up to 10 numbers that they will block. It isn't a phone setting, it's the carrier that blocks the number.

I'm sorry your mom wasn't furious because she should have been. I am.

You are successful and thoughtful and wise and should be proud of that. So sorry you don't have the good parents you deserve.

[Deleted]

You're not crazy or a bad person.

I had to cut off contact with my guardians for similar reasons. If you plan on having children you will be glad you cut off your father beforehand, not after.

It's something I still struggle with from time to time but the longer it goes the more right the decision feels.

[cronewitch]

I would give your parents both a time out and check back in a few years to see if they are worth having.

You don't need anyone who doesn't treat you nicely or makes you feel bad. I might if I thought they would understand explain why you are estranged but make it clear you don't want anything to do with them for a determinate time has passed. Or you define your relationship with your mother for a while and if she isn't nice to you end the visit.

If you explain to your father that you don't want to be around him because he is not respectful to you wait a number of years and give him one chance, if he blows his chance wait a number of years again.

[midjd]

I really don't know how to thank you all for your kind comments and great advice. I can't thank you enough. I was down today - REALLY down (I don't usually cry at work) - but you guys have brought me back up. And I'm so sorry for those of you who have had to deal with toxic family members of your own.

You've brought up some great points I hadn't considered, like my mom defending my dad to justify her own choice in husbands. It seems pretty clear I need to cut my dad out, for good this time (I did it about three years ago but "recanted" after 2 years). I'm going to talk to my mom this weekend and be very clear about what I'm doing - and that there's nothing she can do/say to change my mind and it's none of her business anyway so she shouldn't try, and that I will shut her down if she does. We'll see where it goes from there. I really, really, really don't want to cut her out - she's a kind person, and I love her, I don't want to hurt her. (Especially right before Mother's Day!) Sometimes I think she only sees the good in people and that's one of the reasons she ends up with such jerks.

[raeoflyte]

May 2, 2012 15:19:43 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

So I turn to my OTHER parent. She says "He's your dad, he deserves a relationship with his children." And that "the past is the past" and I just need to "get over it." And "why do you let what he says bother you so much?"

Gotta love getting horrible advice from mom.

What do I do?

Tell your dad to go fuck himself, and that if he keeps harassing you the texts will be forwarded to the police for followup.

Am I crazy?

No. Plenty of us have less than desirable parents. You wouldn't be the only one that's broken off all contact with a parent.

Am I a horrible daughter?

Why? Because your dad is a tool? Fuck no. Don't let his shit and failings start making you doubt yourself. The world is full of assholes, you can't let them tear you down, even when they are related.

Do I owe him a relationship?

Hells to the no!!!

So many good posts, but this captures my feelings best.

Mid--I am so sorry you have to deal with this crap. I have a long fuse, but if someone gets to the end of it, forget it. As my dh says--they're dead to me. So I would say cut him out and never look back.

Good luck! We'll be thinking about you.

[Deleted]

Mid, your posts here tell a lot about you. Good stuff. Please don't let anyone make you doubt yourself.

I've had problems with family, not quite like yours though. Still, I was in my late 30's before I learned something very important. I sincerely hope you learn it at an earlier age. I learned that I don't have to explain or justify my decisions and choices to my family. It's my life and I get to choose what I do with it and who I allow to be a part of it. The same goes for you. Your Mom should understand that you have the right to distance yourself from ANYONE that treats you badly. As a Mom, she should WANT that for you and support it. If she doesn't understand how that works, it's her issue, not yours. If she can't respect your choice, just be firm that it's not up for discussion any more.

People are who they are, and there's nothing you or I can do about it. Allow them to be who they are and understand that may mean you have to keep your distance and/or protect yourself from them. Allow yourself to be who you are and do what's best for you and your life.

I'm sorry you have to deal with issues with your parents. Hold your head up and remind yourself how awesome you are in spite of.

[souldoubt]

I haven't talked to my dad in over 12 years so I'm admittedly jaded when it comes to stuff like this. To be blunt you don't owe him sh*t though. If your parent isn't there when you're growing up then nothing can make up for that later. I'm not saying you can't have a relationship but rather certain bonds that you develop over the years after getting parental advice, them telling you when you screwed up, them helping you develop into an adult and so on just aren't there. You seem like an awesome person from your posts and that is in spite of your dad, not because of him. I'll leave it at this - you're better than him and your dad proved how worthless he was years ago so I'd take what he says with a grain of salt even though it isn't easy. In conclusion - like DarkHonor said tell him to f*ck off.

[Malarky]

(((Hugs, Mid)))

I had such a F'ed up relationship with my parents for such a long time before I grew into my own space where I figured out that I was the victim as a child, but I didn't have to be a victim as an adult.

I'm not sure who posted: "Won't you have regrets when he/she dies?"

The most important things for me (it took me years to pinpoint these) are that I got some good things from my dysfunctional parents. My father, the abuser, taught me my work ethic and sense of responsibility. As much as he meant to control me, he taught me to stand on my own two feet and not take guff from anyone else. My mother, despite her faults, and not standing up for me when I thought she should, embodied loyalty to a fault.

So when my mother died, I grieved for what we had, what I wish we'd had and for the years we didn't have together. But I don't regret striking off on my own, and not ever letting my kids know my parents.

I'm babbling....I just want to help...don't really know what to say...pm me if you are so inclined...

[mmhmm]

I'm glad you're feeling a bit better, mid. What you're going through isn't easy for anyone, but it comes to a lot of us. Sometimes, just knowing others have gone through similar and survived helps. You've gotten some excellent advice, and some good things to try. Whatever works for you is the right thing to do, hon. You're a beautiful person with a bright future. Keep that light shining!

[giramomma]

May 2, 2012 20:29:12 GMT -5 midjd said:

You've brought up some great points I hadn't considered, like my mom defending my dad to justify her own choice in husbands. It seems pretty clear I need to cut my dad out, for good this time (I did it about three years ago but "recanted" after 2 years). I'm going to talk to my mom this weekend and be very clear about what I'm doing - and that there's nothing she can do/say to change my mind and it's none of her business anyway so she shouldn't try, and that I will shut her down if she does. We'll see where it goes from there. I really, really, really don't want to cut her out - she's a kind person, and I love her, I don't want to hurt her. (Especially right before Mother's Day!) Sometimes I think she only sees the good in people and that's one of the reasons she ends up with such jerks.

Why do you feel the need to tell your mom about your relationship with your dad? You don't really need to bring her in to this..Gently, before you do anything, you should get your reading done and work on yourself a bit.

I had some basic boundaries in place with my parents..In my case, announcing my boundaries to my parents wouldn't have done any good, except open myself up to more stuff from them. So, when their behavior crossed the line, I enforced my boundaries, without any prior discussion. Actually, my husband is the only one that generally knows about my boundaries with my parents.

FWIW, my FOO likely is borderline. If you really do suspect that a personality disorder is at play, NOTHING you say will cause your dad to stop, and think about his behavior. I also feel, that, if someone has spent the majority of their life behaving a certain way and does not feel the need to change, not to expect them to. Even if that means they lose their kids. Some

[zibazinski]

YOU don't need to do ANYTHING. YOU are fine and don't let either of your parents get you down. THEY are the problems, not you.

[midjd]

Malarky, that's a really good way to look at it. I did get some positive things from my dad, despite everything.

Gira, I guess you have a point - if it's not her business, it's not her business. I just want her to know she needs to leave me alone about it. I guess it'll come up sooner or later

[Formerly SK]

I had such a F'ed up relationship with my parents for such a long time before I grew into my own space where I figured out that I was the victim as a child, but I didn't have to be a victim as an adult.

I'm not sure who posted: "Won't you have regrets when he/she dies?"

The most important things for me (it took me years to pinpoint these) are that I got some good things from my dysfunctional parents. My father, the abuser, taught me my work ethic and sense of responsibility. As much as he meant to control me, he taught me to stand on my own two feet and not take guff from anyone else. My mother, despite her faults, and not standing up for me when I thought she should, embodied loyalty to a fault.

So when my mother died, I grieved for what we had, what I wish we'd had and for the years we didn't have together. But I don't regret striking off on my own, and not ever letting my kids know my parents.

x1000

[KaraBoo]

May 2, 2012 17:30:14 GMT -5 DVM gone riding said:

This in NO WAY justifies your mother's actions/comments, BUT your mother may feel like she needs to encourage you to have a relationship with your father to justify her own failure in finding you such a poor narcasitic sperm donor. By you having a relationship then she isn't such a failure. something to discuss with a therpist and when better your mother.

I'd like to take this thought a little further - that maybe your mom is encouraging you to have a relationship with your father to possibly protect herself from his horrible ways. I'm not condoning her actions (far from it! she should be ashamed of herself) - just that she may not realize she's doing this herself.

Most narcissists/sociopaths find someone they can leach off of until they use that person up - then they are off to their next "victim". They will come back to the same person/people over and over again if the victim lets them. This sounds like what your dad is doing.

The only way to truly be free from him (if he is a narcissist/sociopath) is no contact, no contact, no contact! I would also suggest reading "The Sociopath Next Door" if you haven't read it already.

After reading that book, I came to the realization that my Ex-husband was probably a sociopath as well. The chapter intitled "Poor Paul" fits him to a T. Until that time, I spent years attempting to make sure our BS had a relationship with his dad, only to be confused, angry and bewildered at some of the things that happened. The final straw that caused me to go for full custody with Ex only having limited supervised visitations was him outright lying to me about events involving DS, drugs, a drug house and all of the pieces finally falling into place.

Now that I realize what the Ex is - I do not totally keep our son from seeing him (that would be wrong on my part since BS is 15), but I do explain to him what his father is and that BS will have to figure his own relationship out with his dad to the best of his ability. That a lot of the things I do/say are to protect BS from the person known as his dad. I let BS know that if his dad does or says anything "odd", to let me know so I can try to help BS figure it all out. That his dad should never make him feel horrible.

Hugs to you!!!

[lurkyloo]

Awww, mid You know you're awesome, right? I mean, all of YM can't be wrong!

It's amazing how parents retain the power to hurt their children, long after the nest is empty. It's so easy to fall back into childhood roles, especially when they're not healthy ones. And it's heartbreaking to see crabs-in-a-bucket syndrome--your mother sees you escaping from the unhealthy dynamic and mindset, and reaches out to pull you back in. It sucks that you went to her for sympathy and understanding and got told you should throw yourself to the wolves. I don't think it's necessarily conscious behavior on her part, and you don't have to hold it against her if you don't want to. But I wouldn't ask for or tolerate her opinion on the matter. As in, don't bring it up, and if she brings it up, tell her the matter is not open for discussion. And change the subject.

As for your father...man, what a piece of work. All I wanted to add is this: you can't control what other people do, and sometimes you can't control your reactions as well as you'd like. But you can control whether your father the emotional vampire sees you reacting to his provocation. Don't give the sumbitch the satisfaction.

Wishing you strength.

[resolution]

May 2, 2012 20:29:12 GMT -5 midjd said:

I really don't know how to thank you all for your kind comments and great advice. I can't thank you enough. I was down today - REALLY down (I don't usually cry at work) - but you guys have brought me back up. And I'm so sorry for those of you who have had to deal with toxic family members of your own.

You've brought up some great points I hadn't considered, like my mom defending my dad to justify her own choice in husbands. It seems pretty clear I need to cut my dad out, for good this time (I did it about three years ago but "recanted" after 2 years). I'm going to talk to my mom this weekend and be very clear about what I'm doing - and that there's nothing she can do/say to change my mind and it's none of her business anyway so she shouldn't try, and that I will shut her down if she does. We'll see where it goes from there. I really, really, really don't want to cut her out - she's a kind person, and I love her, I don't want to hurt her. (Especially right before Mother's Day!) Sometimes I think she only sees the good in people and that's one of the reasons she ends up with such jerks.

You have gotten a lot of really good responses here and I agree that you need to cut him out of your life. However it would probably be better to not discuss this further with your mother. She is unlikely to give you the validation that you are looking for and it is just another opportunity for you to be hurt.

You should consider cutting him out and leaving it a private decision that you only discuss with your husband and just leave her out of the decision. If she brings it up as a topic for discussion just make a neutral comment and change the subject. Most people are quite happy to talk about themselves and I expect you could find a segue into something she would like to say about herself.

[Deleted]

May 2, 2012 15:04:36 GMT -5 midjd said:

What do I do? Am I crazy? Am I a horrible daughter? Do I owe him a relationship? Please be honest, because I am really starting to doubt my sanity - and maybe I'm right in doing so.

He has no "entitlement" to a relationship with you. Some people are just bad. Your mom's opinion is a bit of a trip - she didn't stay with the guy so why does she think anyone else should put up with him?

You do not have to surround yourself with anyone that wants to run you down or use you for their own purposes. I have always seen you as a self-possessed, capable and articulate individual. I'm kind of thinking your family might be the nutsy ones. Nutsy and maybe a little toxic if they think his behavior is okay.

Lets guess that DH knows you best at this point & if he's supporting your opinions/decisions then it is likely they are best for you.

Good Luck & Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish!!!!

[CarolinaKat]

Mid, honey, you are a wonderful person. You are not insane. I would come give you a hug if I was up your way. Your dad DOES NOT deserve to so much as have you in his life if he is going to purposefully try and hurt you. You're not a bad daughter or a bad person. It's quite the opposite, you are a warm and caring person and this is why you feel this way. It makes me very sad that you're sad, and I don't want you to be sad.

Do what you need to do to protect yourself, block the number, go to therapy, read the recommended books, or all three. Go visit your in-laws and remind yourself not all parents are whackadoodles, take a vacation with DH and don't answer ANY calls, get lost in a good book, whatever you need to do. You've gotten some great advice and I hope you take some of it to heart. You're a good egg and don't forget it. If there's anything I can do, be a sounding board or whatever, I'd be happy to help.

[swamp]

As for your father...man, what a piece of work. All I wanted to add is this: you can't control what other people do, and sometimes you can't control your reactions as well as you'd like. But you can control whether your father the emotional vampire sees you reacting to his provocation. Don't give the sumbitch the satisfaction.

I have nothing to add, other than you have your shit together, you have a wonderful husband, and you'll be fine.

ETA: I do have something to add. Some people are just assholes, and your dad appears to be one. Assholes don't deserve a relationship with a decent person. And they don't need an explanation either.

[Deleted]

midJD- Your feelings are your feelings. You have to decide what works for your and what you want down the road. You can have no relationship with your dad or a limited relationship where you keep up certain boundaries to help protect yourself.
As for your mom, i would caution you not to let this taint the relationship between the two of you. And, most people are mixture of good and bad and she may see some good things about your dad or have some good memories that make her think that a relationship with him would be beneficial. I don't know. But, that is for you to decide, not her. But, just don't take her comments in a hurtful way. She is most likely trying to help.

[giramomma]

May 2, 2012 21:26:51 GMT -5 midjd said:

Gira, I guess you have a point - if it's not her business, it's not her business. I just want her to know she needs to leave me alone about it. I guess it'll come up sooner or later

Then you make a boundary with her.

Mom "I've heard it through the grapevine that you still are refusing to have a relationship your dad. I'm going to attempt to load a crap ton of guilt on you."

Mid "Mom, my relationship with my dad is not up for discussion. So how's that new chicken recipe that you tried last week? Was it a hit?"

Mom "Chicken recipe was bland. Let me tell you, you OWE your dad. And I'm going to try and prove it by piling another crap ton of guilt on you."

Mid " Mom, the next time you bring up my relationship with dad, I'm going to end our conversation by hanging up. So, how is xyz going?"

Mom" But your dad did the best he could."

Mid <click>

And, then, yes, your mom may try to "punish" you. You should be prepared for that and know how you will deal with it.

I know therapy isn't right for everyone, but it's a great chance to role play boundaries in a safe environment before you practice them with sharks swimming about you. From personal experience, my good friends got tired of listening to me try to deal with my parents.

Really, though, I can't stress enough that you should do you reading, and make a game plan of how to deal with this. Then execute your plan. While it is more of an emotional topic than finances, you need to approach this the same way. You do your work, think about what's best, and then act.

[taz157]

May 3, 2012 7:38:51 GMT -5 swamp said:

As for your father...man, what a piece of work. All I wanted to add is this: you can't control what other people do, and sometimes you can't control your reactions as well as you'd like. But you can control whether your father the emotional vampire sees you reacting to his provocation. Don't give the sumbitch the satisfaction.

I have nothing to add, other than you have your shit together, you have a wonderful husband, and you'll be fine.

ETA: I do have something to add. Some people are just assholes, and your dad appears to be one. Assholes don't deserve a relationship with a decent person. And they don't need an explanation either.

[taz157]

May 2, 2012 15:19:43 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

So I turn to my OTHER parent. She says "He's your dad, he deserves a relationship with his children." And that "the past is the past" and I just need to "get over it." And "why do you let what he says bother you so much?"

Gotta love getting horrible advice from mom.

What do I do?

Tell your dad to go fuck himself, and that if he keeps harassing you the texts will be forwarded to the police for followup.

Am I crazy?

No. Plenty of us have less than desirable parents. You wouldn't be the only one that's broken off all contact with a parent.

Am I a horrible daughter?

Why? Because your dad is a tool? Fuck no. Don't let his shit and failings start making you doubt yourself. The world is full of assholes, you can't let them tear you down, even when they are related.

Do I owe him a relationship?

Hells to the no!!!

He said it the best. I wish you all the best as I believe you have your head on straight while your mom and dad. Your DH sounds like a great guy who has your best interest at heart! You're a successful lawyer with a great job and you wouldn't be were you are now if you didn't have your sh!t together. I believe you are making the best decision to cut your dad out of your life. I can't imagine my dad calling me a b!tch. From what it sounds like, you are on having a relationship with him to appease your mother and not because you want one with him. Since it doesn't appear that you want one, I would stop trying for now, delete his texts without reading them, or block his number, and do not tell your mother about it. If/When she asks, change the subject and tell her you are making the best decision for YOU, not HER.

[runewell]

I would tell him that I would enjoy spending some time with him once he decided to starting treating me politely and like an adult, and why should I put up with the abuse I'm receiving. Be loving, gentle, and firm. Leave the ball in his court and go about your business.

Give him some chances, but it sounds like it may be awhile before he'll convince you he's ready for his next opportunity.