Could a Giraffe Have Evolved?

[Sum Dum Gai]

Also, The Chicken and the EGG problem, which ONE came first?

The egg obviously. Chickens evolved from some similar animal with a very slight difference that would cause scientists to classify it as something else. At some point, while all those not quite chickens were knocking boots and scrambling their DNA together, one of them layed an egg carrying an animal with a genetic anomaly so that what hatched was a chicken. That slightly different not quite chicken passed on it's genetic anomaly to it's offspring and over time the chickens prospered and the not quite chickens died off.

[Spellbound454]

Yes but the egg belongs to the mother.

At hatching.. she will have all the egg cells she will ever need in the left ovary.
They will go on to develop when she needs them.
Its the foetus inside, once fertilised, which will be the new animal.

[egginbonce]

Once u are away from your ability to see what the earth is doing, ie there is nothing to measure the days and nights and months and years by, then maybe 'time 'gets a bit confusing. ones life ssspan, i suppose wud be the same, and ur watch would carry on, but amongst the various types of time(there are different types-just ask a sundial maker),is PERCEIVED TIME ,hence the remarks made by those who have tried sensory deprivation.It could be said that perceived time is real FOR YOU,and if time seems to 'drag', then for you' it really is................
AAlso..............................I think my poor brain detects a creationist viewpoint in your posts,which Im sure is just fine and dandy(as u yanks might say),but remember that opinions are like a***eholes;everyone has one and none is special.
Also.......................(gosh..) it appears to me that many 'creationists'(if I have to label someone),and 'scientists', feel that their standpoints are mutually incompatible,for some reason,whereas I feel that it is simply an excuse for a little mental masturbation, and that both viewpoints hold water; you havde a fridge- thats (what we call) science;something cant appear out of nothing;thats magic(religion is the wrong word, as religion is to blind us to what is), or 'God', if you must.
But time......................thats relative;I couldnt understand the math in Mr Einsteins book;even the version for idiots, but I got the gist,which backs up what we observe and can think out ourselves.
PS I think that time ,speed and distance are all interdependent;you change one- the others change, so in effect they are one and the same..

[egginbonce]

lets not have this chicken and egg chat;its the creationists (rather good) way of making the point,tho many havent realised it , for reasons which are best unsaid(I promised Moonie that my manners would be impeccable as always on the board!) ;D

[egginbonce]

OK then- nice chattin......................off to put up a ceiling;back lata..............

[Jaguar]

May 8, 2012 1:34:27 GMT -5 egginbonce said:

lets not have this chicken and egg chat;its the creationists (rather good) way of making the point,tho many havent realised it , for reasons which are best unsaid(I promised Moonie that my manners would be impeccable as always on the board!) ;D

Oh Eggy you always make me laugh.

[Deleted]

The chicken preceded the egg. In the act of creation by Intelligent Design, animals, plants, etc were created as they are. Chicken first.

[egginbonce]

shooby- thats a bit unimaginative;as a self-respecting creationist, I'd expect better from you.........................PS I could go with the 'design' thing, but not the 'intelligent 'bit....god isnt likely to be sentient;aware, yes;sentient;no.................

[egginbonce]

but what do I know? -Im barely sentient myself......................

[egginbonce]

but Im not sure that someone bolted me together in his(His?) workshop,all the same....................there is no proof for ANY viewpoint;belief is flimsy;there is only knowledge, which we are all party to ,to a greater or lesser extent;it is impossible to be misled, but it IS possible to not see the whole picture,so there is ignorance, but not misapprehension,even though they seem sometimes to be the same thing................................for my money, I'll just have another beer...............cheers!

[Jaguar]

[Sum Dum Gai]

Yes but the egg belongs to the mother.

At hatching.. she will have all the egg cells she will ever need in the left ovary.
They will go on to develop when she needs them.
Its the foetus inside, once fertilised, which will be the new animal.

But it took two of the not quite chickens to tango in order to produce the genetic anomaly that resulted in the chicken. So there wasn't a true chicken until that egg was fertilized, so obviously the egg came first.

[Deleted]

Unless there was a Act of Creation by an Intelligent Creator. Every species is created after "its own kind". Animals and humans were brought into existence through that act.

[egginbonce]

NONONONONONO,shooby- you cant just state a bald 'fact' as if saying it makes it so.............you can say 'I think that ,etc etc' but not 'this is the way it is, and thats that(because you cant possibly KNOW that)!'
On second thoughts, you can say anything you like, but its best if it allows a conversation, or else its a bit 'flat',innit!
So if you THINK that it all happened by a concious act of creation, its OK to say what you think, but leave a bit of room for us dissidents,who like a bit of thought....................
ANyway, the answer might be 42, and enhanced by Budweiser...................cheers!

[egginbonce]

May 8, 2012 15:07:08 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Yes but the egg belongs to the mother.

At hatching.. she will have all the egg cells she will ever need in the left ovary.
They will go on to develop when she needs them.
Its the foetus inside, once fertilised, which will be the new animal.

But it took two of the not quite chickens to tango in order to produce the genetic anomaly that resulted in the chicken. So there wasn't a true chicken until that egg was fertilized, so obviously the egg came first.

Obviously!

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Egg was post #32 a reply to something? If it was at me the only thing I see in there that relates to what I was talking about is about creation. Did your parents not have the talk with you about where babies come from?... That's science AND creation(the spirit).

[egginbonce]

dunno, aham.............lost track a bit now; it was a while ago...........I spose the main thrust of a few of my remarks here ,is that along with drivers who stick on the brakes on bends as the y go UPhill, another bugbear(of mine), is people who make statements which are impossible to verify,as if they are 'Gods truth'. This strange phenomenon seems to occur with both scientists and creationists alike:
'there is definitely life on other planets'
'nothing goes faster than light'
'it all started with the big bang'
Adam was the first man'
'God did it all in 6 days'
'Allah is the one true god, and mohammed is his prophet'


need I say more?.......................................

Yes, I know..I'm a grumpy old fecker................................

[egginbonce]

YAYYYYYY...................its thursday!!!!!!........................................
OH- sorry- its wednesday.........................................hey ho- all days are the same,unless you look in the sky..........................

(but some are definitely longer than others....................)

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

LOL, Drivers up hill around bends.. I like that one... I can't stand bad drivers either egg... ;D

I understand what your saying about absolutes, that's why relativity makes sense to me. We all started as a single cell and evolved in our moms tummy. That's a fact. There could be something faster than light, we almost just found something(turned out to be false). However, we do know how to measure distance with light. That is a fact. A day here on earth is relative to x amount of days on a different planet. There was just a big story about a start being destroyed by a black hole.. Happened instantly... So the earth very well could have been created in 6 days, relative to what we understand and measure as a day currently. IDK, and only a being that watched the earth being created would know this.

WE are not doing this.. However, it IS really happening egg..

University of Hawaii astronomers capture first direct image of a planet being born
articles.nydailynews.com/2011-10-21/news/30326165_1_young-planets-planets-form-astronomers

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I've got one for ya.... Time and Space are relative to an individuals reality. The more individuals that accept that reality, the more space and time it will consume. Thanks JC!

[egginbonce]

So the idea is, then, that both time,distance and speed can be viewed(measured?) subjectively or objectively;the self-confessed scientists will say that true measurement can only be objective,and continue their (endless) search for a means of making foolproof objective measurements;the fact that mathematics is well regarded by those who dont know enough maths to know that maths too, isnt objective enough,tells us that the search goes on....but.........................is it a bit like the question about the frog who has to cross a tabletop, and each jump is half the remaining distance,and, of course, never arrives?
For myself, storybook assertions of God on his cloud with his cup of tea,wondering what to create next are marvellous, but only due to their daftness;the only creation here being that of whoever invented the daft idea ;this, of course goes for all the other improbable(and also irrelevant)miraculous assertions...............I say irrelevant as, even if you do see someone walking on a lake, what difference does it make other than to amaze you?
Let those who can turn water into wine carry on,an if theres any spare, I'll have a glassfull;and in the meantime, I'll just mind my own beeswax and do all the ordinary stuff that has always been done(miracles,including the 'creation;, were so long ago that they are all conveniently out of living memory...............)

....and yet, to myself, I feel that its all......................well......mystical,if you like........................

[Deleted]

May 8, 2012 15:37:04 GMT -5 egginbonce said:

NONONONONONO,shooby- you cant just state a bald 'fact' as if saying it makes it so.............you can say 'I think that ,etc etc' but not 'this is the way it is, and thats that(because you cant possibly KNOW that)!'
On second thoughts, you can say anything you like, but its best if it allows a conversation, or else its a bit 'flat',innit!
So if you THINK that it all happened by a concious act of creation, its OK to say what you think, but leave a bit of room for us dissidents,who like a bit of thought....................
ANyway, the answer might be 42, and enhanced by Budweiser...................cheers!

I am quite capable of articulating my thoughts in the precise manner in which i intend them.

[egginbonce]

Thats true,shooby,-im sure you put ur thoughts down as you intended, but I wondered if some of those thoughts werent just a bit too 'ex-cathedra' sounding.............................anyway, I expect you know what you know for sure and what you dont;all I know ,is that I dont know much at all,and the more time passes the more I know less, if you see what I mean....................

[egginbonce]

gotta go for a while as I need to attend to the maintainance of this universe....................made it in 6 days,and now its getting a bit worn here and there,specially in my kitchen, so off to plumb in a radiator now.............................

[egginbonce]

swept the chimney insted....now im black as your hat!

[Sum Dum Gai]

Unless there was a Act of Creation by an Intelligent Creator. Every species is created after "its own kind". Animals and humans were brought into existence through that act.

True. This intelligent creator could have created all the living animals, and left the bones of animals that never really existed buried in the ground just to screw with us. I guess.

The fact that animals are still evolving is chalked up to what? The devil's work?

[weltschmerz]

May 8, 2012 5:59:15 GMT -5 @shooby said:

The chicken preceded the egg. In the act of creation by Intelligent Design, animals, plants, etc were created as they are. Chicken first.

As they are? Why did God give animals that live underground, such as moles, eye sockets? What possible reason could a blind species need eye sockets for?

[weltschmerz]

True. This intelligent creator could have created all the living animals, and left the bones of animals that never really existed buried in the ground just to screw with us. I guess.
----------
I think that would be the devil. He peppered the planet with fossils to confuse people and test their faith.

(That's the explanation I was given in the Deep South.)

[Sum Dum Gai]

(That's the explanation I was given in the Deep South.)

Wow...

[egginbonce]

HAllo all.....Ive always been a bit confused by the term 'intelligent creator'...............can someone explain it to me?