Suicide

[bean29]

I know know a little more than I did on Friday Night.

My Son's friend was on the phone with his GF and she broke up with him, His response was that he did not want to live w/o her in his life. He walked to the garage while he was on the phone with her, pulled out a gun and shot himself. His mother was walking into the garage when he shot himself. Girlfriend heard the shot and his mother screaming. He had spent the day with his best friend. He had a lot of friends, and was popular and a good student.

As I said my son went to the hospital on Friday Night. Apparently they kept him on life support until a transplant team could be assembled and he could be an organ donor. It took 12 hours to get to that point.

My Daughter's friend who is related had to be in another state on Saturday. DD thought they were at the hospital on Friday and had to leave by 6 Am to make their DD's appearance. They spent Saturday night in a hotel out of state.

The friends organized a candlelight vigil at the high school on Saturday Evening. I would bet there were close to 300 people there. DD said the school was open and did note that there was a police presence, but they kept a discrete distance. The parents of the Boy and his brothers, girlfriend and cousins and probably some other relatives chose to attend the candlelight vigil.

DD was close up to the front of the crowd, and she said the girlfriend was right in front of her. She said she looked at her and told her she looked like she needed a hug and when she hugged her DD said it felt like she just did not want to let go. DD is not really a friend of hers, but she does sit in front of her in one of her classes. DD talked to both his brothers (the younger one has been in her class for 8-9 years). and his parents. She decided after that she just needed to leave - that was about 45 minutes into the vigil. My son also attended with a friend of his.

The kids used facebook to organize the vigil and then yesterday they sent out a message that everyone was to wear black, white or yellow to school on Monday. DD texted her friend and asked why yellow was it her cousin's favorite color? Friend's response was that yellow was the suicide prevention color. DD and I pounded through the mall looking for yellow, and she finally told me that she had given a yellow top to her cousin recently. I told her to text her and ask if she could borrow it. She said yes, but before we went to get it we stopped home, and DH had a fit he said that if DD had given it away she should not ask to borrow it back.

He told us to go to Target and find something else. DD and I got in the car, and she looked at me and said she did not understand her Dad's problem. I told her that I agreed with her, girls borrow clothes back and forth all the time, but that my concern was that my BIL might react exactly like my DH and refuse to let his daughter take clothes from DD in the future. We ended up picking it up, and My MIL had it in the washing machine. I think my MIL will keep this from becoming a problem.

So, on our way home in the car my daughter tells me they changed it now we are supposed to wear all white. We got home and DD and DS are discussing it and DS says I just got a text from his BF and BF and GF say it is still black, white, yellow, and I am not wearing white tomorrow.

DD went on facebook and said they changed it to Black/White/Yellow for the memorial service on Friday and White (or possibly white/black, not sure) for today. They also were supposed to bring white roses, but it was too late for me to do anything about that. DD wore White pants, with a gray shirt with a black rose on it. Not sure what DS had on, but I am sure it was not white. (Btw, the school calendar has the kids off of school on Thursday and Friday, so the kids will not have a conflict).

I am very proud of these kids for what they have organized, despite the fact that I was very frustrated with their back and forth on the colors for tomorrow. I am not sure how the school is going to respond, but the kids have already done a lot to remember their classmate and express their grief.

DD read me some of the comments on facebook, and they are overwhelming. DD's words are just beautiful and she got a note of thanks from her friend.

[TheOtherMe]

It sounds like the kids are taking this very seriously. I hope they do learn to ask for help when they need it instead of taking their friend's way out.

I am so sorry for the mother who found him and the GF who heard the shot and the mother screaming. I would guess the GF is going to need some grief counseling and I hope her parents make sure she gets it.

[femmefatale]

Oct 24, 2011 10:08:24 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

It sounds like the kids are taking this very seriously. I hope they do learn to ask for help when they need it instead of taking their friend's way out.

I am so sorry for the mother who found him and the GF who heard the shot and the mother screaming. I would guess the GF is going to need some grief counseling and I hope her parents make sure she gets it.

It is so sad when Children have to wake every day and dread School and peers so bad that it leads to this. I feel this is when the Parents really need to always build them up and teach them how Beautiful and wonderful they are. Sad part is, a lot of the Children hold it in and won't even speak to their Parents about it.

[jemima]

Sad part is, a lot of the Children hold it in and won't even speak to their Parents about it.

Children should trust their Parents as Best friends...if there is a trusting relationship, Parents can guide the Children and Suicide will never be an option or the easy way out to any problem.

Btw, hello FF.

[bean29]

[/quote]It is so sad when Children have to wake every day and dread School and peers so bad that it leads to this. I feel this is when the Parents really need to always build them up and teach them how Beautiful and wonderful they are. Sad part is, a lot of the Children hold it in and won't even speak to their Parents about it. [/quote]

I don't think this kid was ever bullied. He was popular and had lots of friends. I think the problem was something else which I mentioned at the beginning, but DH says I should just wait and see what the autopsy results are. This kid had a close family relationship. I think it was Later who mentioned people who commit suicide being in a sort of distorted mental state. I think that is what happened.

[femmefatale]

Oct 24, 2011 10:25:34 GMT -5 @jemima said:

Sad part is, a lot of the Children hold it in and won't even speak to their Parents about it.

Children should trust their Parents as Best friends...if there is a trusting relationship, Parents can guide the Children and Suicide will never be an option or the easy way out to any problem.

Btw, hello FF.

Morning Jemima The thing is, I think they are embarrassed of it or think their Parents wil embarrass them by contacting the School or other Parents and they feel that will cause more peer pressure. It's sad but a lot of Children think that way I think.

[femmefatale]

I don't think this kid was ever bullied. He was popular and had lots of friends. I think the problem was something else which I mentioned at the beginning, but DH says I should just wait and see what the autopsy results are. This kid had a close family relationship. I think it was Later who mentioned people who commit suicide being in a sort of distorted mental state. I think that is what happened.

Gosh, that really makes me sad to hear of a child having to resort to that. I can honestly say, I have no idea how painful that has to be for the Parents.

[femmefatale]

Ok, My little quote box didn't do right.

[femmefatale]

Oct 24, 2011 10:53:08 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Actually, I feel bad for the girlfriend. Imagine living each day with the psychic weight of having a lover kill himself over you. It was a terrible thing that he did to her as well as to his own family. It seems today that suicide is somewhat romanticized, the last thing you want to see when adolescents are at that suggestible age. My sympathies go out to all.

Mine too. It's hard to even know what to say to comfort.

[bean29]

OK, I have some more info.

First, DD said there were 6 or more counselors on duty at the school yesterday. They made a general announcement that anyone who wanted to could come to the office and talk to a counselor. I asked if either of my kids had, -NO. She looked at me like I was nuts. I asked if her friend had she said NO.

DD's friend asked her Mom if she could become involved in Suicide Prevention. She even talked to the Principal yesterday about it. Principal (rightly IMO) told her she should wait that it is too early.

The story I was told was not 100% accurate. He was on phone with girlfriend, but his family was apparently not at home, it was his friend that walked in the door as he was shooting himself.

He had apparently signed his Organ donor Card and showed it to his Mother just days before he killed himself. He also had expressed to several friends that if GF left him he would kill himself. DS said he felt the kid always had self esteem issues. He said the kid used to be fat (I would say Husky) and he lost weight but never saw himself as attractive. DS said he saw the friend talking to an attractive girl who seemed really interested in him last year and he asked his friend if he would ask her out. His friend responded that the girl was beautiful and would never consider going out with someone like him. By 8th grade the kid had lost all his baby fat and was very attractive. Go figure.

The kids said one kid walked up to the brother of the kid that comitted suicide and said his brother got what he deserved. They said the other kids in the class/school shut him down and the administration suspended the kid. The kids said it will not be safe for that kid to return to their school - he is a transfer student and DS and DD said he never fit in and had an axe to grind. They said his comments had nothing to do with the kid that committed suicide - I asked if he was the victim of bullying and they said absolutely not.

DD said that the Girlfriend was also approached by 2-3 girls who told her she should be ashamed of herself and it was all her fault. DD said the kids set them straight too. They did not say that those kids were disiplined but I imagine they got a good talking to. The kids indicated those incidents were isolated and the students were largely supportive.

DD said that the Brother and the Girlfirend chose to attend school yesterday but they were not required to be in any classroom and were allowed to go anywhere in the school they desired.

So, we had a few questions when we were discussing this yesterday. If you sign your organ donor card and you are a minor do your parents have the last say? What if you are an adult? Can your family still say yes or no?

Some of you have experienced suicide of loved ones. If they expressed that they might kill themselves in passing to you or a family member or a friend - did anyone act on it? What did you do and how did it work out?

[bean29]

Oh and I had one more question. I think he was brain dead, and transported to the hospital and put on life support b/c of the organ donor thing, so do you think his parents will have a hospital bill to pay or is that cost covered by the people who will receive the organs? DS or DD said the mother had expressed that they could not afford the bills...I am unsure if she was referring to the cost of the funeral or if there will be hospital bills.

The school kids are raising $$ so hopefully they will cover the funeral costs. DD said many dismissed the Mother's comments b/c they have a very nice house but I pointed out to DD that they could have all their $$ in their house and that they could also be upside down on the house.

[bean29]

toughtimes, I agree...My Dad is bipolar and we have often looked back and asked ourselves if we should have identified earlier that he was losing it. We have come to the conclusion that second guessing yourself is pointless, but they do generally encourage people to act if someone has expressed that they will kill themselves and get Mental Health Professionals/School Counselors involved etc., but I was just wondering how effective it would be. I know with Mentally Ill people they have the right to refuse treatment.

I know also that my cousin's husband had threatened suicide, the were in counseling, she had hidden all his guns, but there was one she could not find, and he obviously had it hidden from her b/c he eventually used it to end his life. My thought was that even if someone had expressed the intent to commit suicide to you, even if you had tried to get someone else involved there is probably very little chance of successful intervention, although I would like to think that someone might turn the situation around positively, one wonders if it might be permanent or if it might just be a temporary delay of the inevitable.

[mmhmm]

Oct 25, 2011 10:31:04 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Oh and I had one more question. I think he was brain dead, and transported to the hospital and put on life support b/c of the organ donor thing, so do you think his parents will have a hospital bill to pay or is that cost covered by the people who will receive the organs? DS or DD said the mother had expressed that they could not afford the bills...I am unsure if she was referring to the cost of the funeral or if there will be hospital bills.

The school kids are raising $$ so hopefully they will cover the funeral costs. DD said many dismissed the Mother's comments b/c they have a very nice house but I pointed out to DD that they could have all their $$ in their house and that they could also be upside down on the house.

The parents should receive no more than a nominal ER bill from the hospital, if any. Once the donor is pronounced deceased, the agency that harvests the organs is responsible for the costs of maintaining the organs until they can be harvested. At least, that's how it's been explained to me.

[bean29]

toughtimes, My DH could probably bring in a decent funeral at about $10,000 he often handles them for family and I think the last one was only about a year ago. There is a nice cemetery in my town that has reasonable prices, but it is not affiliated with any particular religion...my parents were so distressed that his family members are buried there that they made sure to buy their own crypts in a catholic cemetery to avoid the possibility that we might bury them in unconsecrated ground.

But, one of the reasons that DH has handled more than one funeral for his family members is that he has made arrangements to buy the cemetery plot before his loved ones actually passed. If you purchase even one day before they die you can pay payments on the cemetery plot, once they are gone, the plot needs to be paid in full. The social worker told his family members this when his grandmother was dying, but no one wanted to raise bad juju by making funeral arrangements. DH as the grandson went ahead and began the plans. His grandfather and aunts and uncles were appreciative of his efforts, they were just too close to the situation to function at the level required to make decisions at that point in time.

[bean29]

thanks mmhmm, I thought that would be the case, but I was not sure.

[bean29]

tough, my Dad's bipolar has been pretty successfully controlled by meds over his lifetime, although he has been in a bi-polar high for the past several weeks. Mom is hopeful he is winding down - she has been dealing with him at home, as he can no longer walk and the psych wards are not set up for/experienced with hoeyer lifts.

[me2]

Oct 23, 2011 7:57:04 GMT -5 Lady Gaga Gaga Snerd said:

IN that moment, for some reason, suicide seems to be the only possible choice to that person for whatever situation they are in. It isn't even a "choice", it is the only thing they can do and are compelled to do.

I so agree with this statement. In that very moment it seems to be a reasonable solution...5 seconds later it may not be a solution.

Very sorry to hear about this young person.

[thyme4change]

DS says he recently asked him if he was on steroids and he denied it

If he was bulky, he was most likely on "supplements" of some sort. Even if he did understand them and research them, it doesn't mean they don't have steroid qualities. There have been many athletes who took supplements that were not considered steroids, but later were classified as steroids. They are very tricky. The supplement market spends a butt-load of money trying to come up with the next compound that will act as a steroid, but not test as one. They can then market them as just plain "supplements."

[bean29]

Tough, my dad can't walk and only has limited use of his arms. If Mom does not put him in his wheelchair he can not go anywhere...so she has not put him in his wheelchair for about 2 weeks b/c she is afraid he would leave the house and not sure where he would try to go or what he might attempt to do.

His thoughts are racing, and sometimes you are not sure if his "memories" are real. He is very demanding of my Mom, told her to tell me a story then would not let her talk, and spent one early AM when she wanted to sleep yelling at the top of his lungs. She got up b/c she was afraid the neighbors would hear him and wonder what was going on.

He does keep saying his is a millionaire (NOT) but other than buying a new stereo, new car, and expensive household furnishings he has never done anything too horrible financially. He is probably really saved by the fact that credit was non existent when they first married, so he does not think about buying things on credit as normal. I could really see where this would be the downfall of younger generations.

[gavinsnana]

Oct 24, 2011 10:30:30 GMT -5 bean29 said:

It is so sad when Children have to wake every day and dread School and peers so bad that it leads to this. I feel this is when the Parents really need to always build them up and teach them how Beautiful and wonderful they are. Sad part is, a lot of the Children hold it in and won't even speak to their Parents about it. [/quote]

I don't think this kid was ever bullied. He was popular and had lots of friends. I think the problem was something else which I mentioned at the beginning, but DH says I should just wait and see what the autopsy results are. This kid had a close family relationship. I think it was Later who mentioned people who commit suicide being in a sort of distorted mental state. I think that is what happened. [/quote][/b]

Bean, My thoughts and prayers are with this boy and his family, as well as you and your son.

[Deleted]

But, i hope you see my point.

Your post makes so much sense in my opinion!

I am currently walking alongside a child who is seven years old and live in a horrific environment, but not so horrific according to authorities that would demand the child taken from the home. What I, and others who love her sooo dearly have done (and still do) is build her confidence up in every way possible by loving on her etc., but shun the poor me attitude while in our presence. Over time she's become a toughie in heart, but of course there are times she succumbs to intervals of overload from the environment.. During those periods I/we assure her she always has us as her strong support system.

We've give her strategies to cope during those times she feels helpless when not with me/us and with each episode of tumult in the home she's become the little toughie she is..

No, life is not fair, and that is not going to change. We, no matter our age, and for our entire lives, must learn coping strategies when leaving an unfair (whether real or imagined) environment is not an option.. Coping in life should really begin as early as toddler-hood .. Life seems so unfair to our babies, because they want what they want when they want it, don't they? If I had a nickle for every time I've heard children and adults whine about someone not liking them because... Or someone said this or that about me without cause, I'd be rich.

Life ain't fair. Lots of people don't fight fair. So, we put up our dukes/shields of resistance/resilient and continue to play this game of life, doing our best to respect and be at peace with all men as best we can..

Not to make light of a serious topic by making the comment about above about toddlers, but there must be coping strategies taught and in place beginning at an early age to help our babies become resilient adults..

Where there is abuse, of course we lift our children out of the environment as should adults do the same if they find themselves in threatened environments..

[TheOtherMe]

Sounds like the school is handling this as best they can.

Again, I hope the GF gets some serious counseling to help her live with this. This has to be very, very tough on her.

[toomuchreality]

Some of you have experienced suicide of loved ones. If they expressed that they might kill themselves in passing to you or a family member or a friend - did anyone act on it? What did you do and how did it work out?

My BF had a degenerative back problem, so in some ways maybe it's a little different. I don't know. But he pretty much told everyone what he was planning to do, he just didn't tell them when, or where. When the pain got to be so bad, he could no longer even take care of his personal needs, he ended it.

He took his mother of a trip, so he could tell her and they could talk about it. He did tell her he was going to, but didn't tell her when. She is (has been) in denial about what really happened.
He arranged with his brother to "find" him. He was in another state when it happened, so he even took care of the flight arrangements & payment.
I stayed on the phone with him while he/we went through it (many long tough hours). We both cried A LOT.

I wanted him to know he was loved, no matter what, and not totally alone, during a time when he was feeling so desperate, and lonely.
I had discussed that it was going to happen with my psychiatrist on many occasions, prior to it taking place. My shrink told me that when he called and told me he was going to do it, I should call the police/911 and report it, so he could be stopped. I looked at her sadly, and told her no, I would not do that.
Prior to him leaving the state we lived in, to do this, I helped him go through his possessions. Giving things away, selling them, or discarding them. He didn't own a computer, so he used mine to create a will, but it was never filed with the courts. When he talked to me about what items I wanted, I told him that it was just stuff. Even though it was nice stuff, it still was just stuff. I didn't want to have any issues with his family, or anyone else over stuff.

Doing all this, has got to be one of the hardest things I have ever done. I did it out of love, and respect.

I have been called everything from an angel, for 'being there' for him, to a murderer, for not having contacted the authorities. At one point I almost took my own life, because of the things someone was saying about me, and the situation. (They were taking things out of context, and making a lot of assumptions, judgments, and accusations. Then telling people about what had happened, and what I had done, based on their reality. It was ugly, to say the least!)

His will was not honored by his family, as well as other things that I resent. But it is, what it is. And resentment won't bring him back, so I choose to let it go.

All I know is that I did what I felt was right, given the circumstances. I don't feel guilty, or like it is/was my fault. I'm not a saint, I'm just me. And I miss him terribly.

If the same situation were presented to me again, I would do the same thing.

((((bean)))) -hugs to you, bean!

Hang in there toomuchreality. The world is rooting for you. [image]

your avatar makes me smile every time I see it, toomuch - and I need help smiling - so thanks and hang in there. [image]

Thank you both 'fairy' much! I really appreciate it.



I'm not looking for a pity party, or trying to hijack the thread. Just trying to answer questions, and hoping to be of some help to someone.
If we don't discuss it, how can we ever hope understand it, or how to deal/cope with it? Or with each other?

[Deleted]

Tmr..

Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I appreciate your strength through it all..

[Deleted]

Helping and encouraging suicide, helping him give things away? Being aware of his plans but not intervening? What about the devastation on his brother and family? I am in no way saying you could have stopped him, but knowing and being a party to it? I can't imagine.

Though it is something I don't think I can ever imagine myself doing, assisting anyone in their suicide attempts.. What I can fathom is, someone being so lured-talked into by a loved/someone to do the unfathomable, and the most unthinkable acts of all kinds.. The mind can be so convinced into all sorts of unmentionables..

But I do understand what you're saying too, Snerd.

[Deleted]

And, i would advise others to make sure they do not have any guns that are readily available in a home. Yes, there are other ways to commit suicide. But, a self inflicted gun wound is instant death. And, with today's teens, you dont' know what is in their minds or the minds of their friends.

Teens and adults alike.

I have a firearm in my home, but no one knows where it is except for me. I am so scared of the thing myself that I keep it under lock and key and pushed so far back and on the highest level of my property..

We have a family member who recently attempted a serious attempt at taking their life, who is now in an intense therapeutic program. Their attempt scared them so bad once they realized their failed attempt. Now they can hardly believe how desperate they'd became to end life and never want to find themselves at that point again.. This is the most agonizing ordeal for everyone concerned.. It is so vital they know they are loved and accepted as they are, with warts and all. Warts we can work on, eradicated and life changed, but not if they're not around.

[Deleted]

Could he have choosen some other method? Perhaps. But, using a gun is pretty much a sure thing.

You are so right.

I will shove my locked box even further into the crawl space.. If I can even get to it again.. I have a long tree limb cutter that I use to make sure it's not in anyone's reach.. No one knows it's there, but still..

[toomuchreality]

Helping and encouraging suicide, helping him give things away? Being aware of his plans but not intervening? What about the devastation on his brother and family? I am in no way saying you could have stopped him, but knowing and being a party to it? I can't imagine.

What about the devastation on me

No. I did NOT, and would not EVER encourage suicide! I allowed him to use my computer to make up his will, I did not (would not) do it for him. I find it upsetting that people seem to gravitate towards, and focus on this thought or assumption. Asking what about his loved ones. Was I not loved by him? I think I was, and I know I loved him.

His mother? Like I said, he took her on a trip. They spent a week on a train talking about what he planned to do. It wasn't a matter of IF, it was a matter of when.

His brother? What part of him buying an airplane ticket for his brother to come and find him the following morning, with full knowledge that's what he was going for (he already had a key to the motel room, for this very purpose), did you miss, that makes me more guilty of something?

He had a degenerative back disorder, that took away his quality of life. It was inoperable. When the pain became so great, that he could no longer take care of his most basic personal needs, HE chose to end it. His family, and other friends had already come, and moved him out of his home (took all his stuff). I simply helped him go through it, and took things to goodwill and such, because if he had taken it himself, I would have lost him sooner. It would have been left for his family to do afterward, amidst all their grief. I don't see this as being a better option. -My brother died in March of this year, and I am the one that took care of things like that afterward. It sucked.

He was in another state at the time he took his life. I was not present.

Prior to it happening, I was in a situation where I couldn't get in touch with him for several days, and I hadn't heard from him. Over the course of that approximate week, I had to endure the anguish of "what if". Was that why I hadn't been able to get in touch with him, and hadn't heard from him? I thought it very likely was, although didn't know for sure, at the time. What if I found him, and he wasn't dead, could I leave without calling for help, knowing that that's what he would want me to do? Unfortunately, in some ways, I got the answer to that question when I went to his house. It turned out he had attempted to take his life, and was not dead. I could not just leave, or even wait. I had to summon help.

After this incidence, we talked at great length, many times about what we each wanted, and could/would do in the future. I made the choice then, that I would rather know, than to have to sit, and wonder for days on end. I chose to be with him, in any way I could, for as long as I could. I wanted him to know he was loved and cared about to the end. That I hadn't turned my back on him, when the going got rough.

Having attempted many times prior to this, myself. And having been hospitalized for it, I had lots of time, and opportunities to feel that sense of aloneness, and rejection. I also had time to give the whole thing a lot more thought. It had all been discussed in great detail. He knew (we had talked about) that if he truly did not intend to go through with it, and it was a "cry for help", he would not get that kind of help from me. In my opinion, you don't try to do it, unless you intend to do it.

No. he did not want to die. No. I did not want him to die. His death has caused me an unimaginable amount of loss, and pain. (it still does)
It was a choice he made. I respect his choice.

Even though it was incredibly hard, this was a choice I made. It is not a choice I would suggest anyone else make. I'm not sorry for, nor do I regret my choice. I love(d) him enough to want to do that for him.

What I do regret, is not having the skills to word what happened, in a way that others understand better. My grief seems endless. Words can not express my pain, over losing him.

I'm sorry that suicide is the best/only way out that some people can see, to end their pain, be it physical or emotional.



I am sorry for your loss.

[toomuchreality]

We have a family member who recently attempted a serious attempt at taking their life, who is now in an intense therapeutic program. Their attempt scared them so bad once they realized their failed attempt. Now they can hardly believe how desperate they'd became to end life and never want to find themselves at that point again.. This is the most agonizing ordeal for everyone concerned.. It is so vital they know they are loved and accepted as they are, with warts and all. Warts we can work on, eradicated and life changed, but not if they're not around.

I'm sorry you've had to go through this, but glad the opportunity still exists for them and family to reevaluate what is important.

I kind of regret having tried to explain what happened in my situation... D'oh!

Enjoy your day, heart!

[roygrip]

Two friends commited suicide this week, separately, and one took slow suicide and relapsed and overdosed and died. Sometimes the Holidays suck!