Advice on relationship and money?

[kygirl]

Hi Everyone,

I lurked on MSN Money Boards for a long time, and plan to be a regular here. I need some advice. I'm worried I am making a mistake for walking away from the chance of a relationship because of money and life goal conflicts. I know that when most of you read that, you will say to RUN the other way. Once I explain things, maybe your view will change. I just want to make sure I'm not analyzing things too much.

I am single and just turned 33. I've worked hard my entire life, and have earned a bachelor degree along with an MBA. I have an amazing job that I love and also teach college classes part time at night. I have amazing friends and family, and am a really happy person. The one thing missing from my life is that person to share it with and the kids I want so badly.

I never thought I would be this age and still single. I dated a guy I thought I was going to marry for 6 years, and it ended when he cheated and married her within 4 months of the breakup. At the time I was devastated, but it's been a few years now, and I've been over it for awhile. I'm really ready for a relationship, and I'm trying really hard not to hear that biological clock, but its getting louder. I feel like I was born to be a mom.

Okay, so here is the situation. I've really been putting a focus for the last 6 months on trying to find someone. Sometimes it's so easy to get too busy and let it become not so much of a priority, but I'm trying really hard not to let that happen.

Recently a mutual friend decided I should meet this guy. She thought he was 28, getting ready to turn 29. I was okay with this age difference. Turns out he is 25. This is an issue for me, and I'm trying hard to look past it, but it does bother me. I haven't met him in person yet, but from talking with him on the phone, I've learned some interesting facts:

He has 2 bachelors and a Master in Civil Engineering.

He bought his own condo at 20, and has it, along with 2 cars, paid off.

He never, ever wants another office job again. Instead, he is working at a daycare making $10 an hour and at a bar.

His goal is to be a stay at home dad.

Here are my thoughts. It's amazing that he has a paid off condo as young as he is. And at one point he must have been motivated to obtain his degrees. But now it's like he's become lazy. At first I thought he must just be burnt out, but talking to him, he says he will either continue what he is doing or he will be a stay at home dad if he gets married and has kids. I asked him what would happen if the girl he wanted to marry either wanted to be the stay at home parent or didn't make enough money for him to be a stay at home dad, and he said that it wouldn't work out between them then. He said he broke up with his last girlfriend over this issue. He was so adamant about it.

Here's the thing. I'm not sure if I want to be a stay at home mom, because I'm not a mom yet. I love my career and have worked hard to have everything that I do. What I don't like is having the option taken away from me. That really bothers me.

As the conversation went along and I told him what I wrote above and also how I don't make enough money for anyone to be a stay at home anything, he then started to say he would do what it takes to make his family happy. He said he would work 3 jobs if he had to, and I stated that he didn't have to, he would chose to because he doesn't want an "office job". And I also told him I don't think he would make a wife happy if she didn't see him too often because he was working 3 jobs. He also kept saying that he doesn't need a lot of "stuff". I said that I didn't either, but having a secure retirement and money goals is very important to me.

I haven't even met this guy in person yet, so I know it's really early to be thinking about these things, but we are at such opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to this. I'm trying to ask myself if it even matters if I meet him and we have this amazing chemistry.

I know money isn't everything. Family comes first for me. I just think it's strange that staying at home is his "goal". I would be okay if I married someone and due to life happening, it made sense for the person I marry to stay home with the kids because it makes financial sense. Making that decision together makes all of the difference in the world to me. (Okay, some of a difference! I still don't make enough money for anyone to stay home!

Anyway, I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Am I crazy and over-thinking things?

[Abby Normal]

I wouldn't say your crazy, but I do think your over thinking things. As you said you haven't even met him yet. But you are pretty far apart on your goals. If this guy is already sending up red flags, then pass on the date and move on. If from talking with him, he sounds like someone worth meeting, then do so. From what you describe, I doubt he will be "the one" but you never know. Don't let your clock talk you into dating/marrying someone just because you want to have a kid.

[phil5185]

He has 2 bachelors and a Master in Civil Engineering.
He bought his own condo at 20, and has it, along with 2 cars, paid off.
He never, ever wants another office job again. Instead, he is working at a daycare making $10 an hour and at a bar.
His goal is to be a stay at home dad.

His maturity issue aside, I question his intellectual honesty. I doubt the accomplishments that he lists. If he actually enough starch in his underwear to earn 3 degrees and pass his Civil PE, he wouldn't just wake up a zombie one morning. And he didn't maintain a condo and pay off two cars on $10/hr. What was RR's quote - trust but verify?
Or daddy is rich and he has a trust fund?

[The J]

You're not overthinking things. If you're looking for a long-term relationship, then you need to look for someone you're going to be compatible with long term. If what you already know about this guy tells you that you won't be compatible long-term, then what's the point?

[kygirl]

Thanks for the responses so far. Agilemom, I'm trying really hard to not let that influence things. I can tell this guy is on a mission to be married and have kids by the time he's 30. He's said so himself. It's hard because we have that goal in common and are both extremely close to our families which is huge for me.

Phil, I thought about the trust fund thing too. But then I don't understand why he is working at the bar, which by the way he says he absolutely hates. He says he paid everything off before he quit the civil engineering job (which he also hated) because he made a ton of money at that time. Even if he has a trust fund, I still think goals are so important. Also, I think if there is something like that in the background, he wouldn't say it's a deal breaker if the wife wants to stay home, and I don't think he would have mentioned working 3 jobs if needed. Trust but verify is excellent advice. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I really respect you.

The J...that's what I am thinking. My gut just tells me something isn't right. Even if all of his facts are indeed true, and even if he has a trust fund, I don't like his attitude about him deciding that he is staying home and that's that. A relationship, in my opinion, should be about making decision together that are best for all involved.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to respond.

[The J]

The J...that's what I am thinking. My gut just tells me something isn't right. Even if all of his facts are indeed true, and even if he has a trust fund, I don't like his attitude about him deciding that he is staying home and that's that. A relationship, in my opinion, should be about making decision together that are best for all involved.

And that should be the answer to your question. It's not like you're learning this stuff about someone you love and have been in a relationship with for years. You're learning this stuff about someone you haven't even dated yet. If you're already questioning a relationship with him, before it even begins, then you shouldn't do it.

[Jake 48]

how did he earn those degrees in such a short period of time? Where did the money come from to pay for condo and cars? If his family is not rich was it obtained illegally? Verify

[Deleted]

Huge red flags.

1. I'm an engineer it is about impossible to get a degree in engineering in less than 4 years at college. Masters tend to be easier after the engineering degree.

2. Average Civil engineer only earns 60-70K/yr (and this isn't starting). He is only 25, with standard education he was 22 when he graduated college. Something is wrong on what he is telling you because there is no way that in 3-4 years he earned enough to buy everything he says. At 4 years and 70K that is only 280K total (-20% for taxes) and he only has 224K, does that fit the expenses to live for 4 years and buy 2 cars + condo.

Remember he managed to get a Master's degree in that time also.

Personally, go out with him a time or two. See if things match up (like the cars, maybe they are older items he only paid 2-4K for) and the Condo might be a lower end. In other words check the facts.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

The whole situation sends up a lot of red flags in my brain. Timewise, how could someone do something like this before they turned 25? I'd be looking at this really cautiously because what he's telling you and what's logical do not mesh.

[Plain Old Petunia]

I'm not surprised to hear that a 25 year old has a strong opinion about what he will or won't do once he is theoretically married. While young, we often have very black and white views. As we age, we begin to realize that there are so many shades of gray.

I agree that his story does not add up. Either there are some pieces missing or he is being less than honest.

[Deleted]

Wow.... a man with a life goal of being a stay at home dad?
Call me man cave if you want, but I never knew those existed

I do know 2 guys that were stay at home dad out of necessities because they were married to High Income earners wives (one is my wife cousin a lawyer and the other was a physician)... but both men rushed back to work the moment the kids were in PreK.

[Deleted]

What, he started college at 12? Nope, it doesn't add up. I think I'd be suspicious that even his name isn't real! And I think I'd be verifying before going out with him.

If all he says about his degrees, his paid-for condo and cars, is true, that's nice, but he's just not an adult. He has a ways to go, and I'm thinking that you might not be interested in raising him. A mature 25 to your 33 would be fine. My DD will be 47 soon; her DH is 40. They've been married for 12 years.

I don't know how it happens, but a Personal Person almost always turns up when you aren't looking. Could be that you're looking too hard...keep in mind what kind of guy you want, not just single and with the correct, er, plumbing.

[kygirl]

Thanks again for the responses. I'm glad others think there are red flags also. I'm really analytical and I just wanted to make sure I wasn't analyzing things too much.

He just called and left a voicemail about the date on Saturday. We are meeting at 8, and it's outside, but he still didn't tell me where we are meeting! The one things I've been very clear about is that I hate being cold!!! And that I'm meeting him at the place, so I have to know what we are doing. Ugghhh! Anyway, enough complaining about that since it's not money related, but I did want to take the time to thank everyone again for verifying my gut feeling. I just think being on the same page about money and life goals is so very important.

[kygirl]

Jan 13, 2011 20:42:21 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

I don't know how it happens, but a Personal Person almost always turns up when you aren't looking. Could be that you're looking too hard...keep in mind what kind of guy you want, not just single and with the correct, er, plumbing.

This made me laugh out loud! So very true!

I'm trying to remind myself that I've waiting this long, and I'm not about to settle.

[formerexpat]

I graduated when I was 17. I could have skipped Kindergarten if my mother let me and graduated a year earlier than I did. Had I done both of those, I would have been 15 when I graduated and finished my undergrad when I was 19. Theoretically, this kid could have finished his masters by 20/21. Maybe he worked while going to school at an engineering firm, earned money there and significantly increased his income from there.

It's not impossible but you might want to dig in a bit further.

To other peoples point though, you have no emotional investment in this guy. If your goals are not aligned this soon [i.e. before you meet], then I'd say you should move on.

Have you tried any match making websites or anything to try and get people that you've got a stronger connection with rather than leave it to chance or friends trying to match you up with someone? I dated a couple girls that I met online before I began dating my wife and met some pretty decent girls.

[Deleted]

Pay attention to your gut. There's nothing wrong with a SAHD per se; my sister has one and they've been happily married for 30 years. I've always said, though, that if you're not bringing in money you need to bring other forms of support to the table- cleaning the house, cooking the food, doing the laundry, being a good emotional support for the other partner, etc. How industrious is he? And it would also be a concern that you want to keep the option of being a SAHM open and this wouldn't do it.

Definitely meet him and see what you think, but don't try and make it work out of desperation. I married Mr. Wrong when I was 30 because my bio clock was ticking and he was the most realistic option. I did get DS out of it, but the marriage ended in flames after 13 years. A female colleague, OTOH, has a beautiful little boy she conceived through an anonymous donor. She was in her late 30s with no marriage prospects and really wanted a baby. I hope she does eventually find a good man because children really need 2 parents, but at least she's not trying to live with some guy she never should have married in the meantime.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

My few thoughts...

He could have double-majored and is calling it two Bachelor's degrees, or you assumed he meant two Bachelor's degrees when he believes he said it was double-major.

A lot of women "decide" they're going to stay home well before meeting their husbands. I don't think it's wrong for a man to have those thoughts also.

I've never done it, but I'm sure it's hard to correctly interpret someone's true personality based on online interactions.

Good luck! I hope the date is at least entertaining and you come back with a good story.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

The skeptical/cynical part of me wonders if there's more to the story about why he isn't working as an engineer and he's opted instead to work in a daycare and at a bar? Have you Googled him? Checked him out online? I'd be seriously suspicious about his bonafides .... and that's really not a strong foundation for a relationship.

[The J]

I don't understand why she would have to do any further investigation??? There's no relationship. There's no requirement that she gets into one. If there are red flags, she shouldn't investigate further to see if they're really red flags. She should just walk away.

[shanendoah]

I knew someone who had her BSN by age 18. And I've also known women who planned on being stay at home moms (at 18, that was my plan, now I'm the primary breadwinner). What plans people have when they are not in a relationship can change drastically once they get in one.
If you have only talked to this guy on the phone and you're already uncomfortable with his age and what he wants for the future, then don't go on the date. Don't let a focus on finding the "right" one force you into a relationship with the wrong one.
However, if you're willing to give him a chance, be honestly willing to give him one.
I had always wanted a man with as much or more education than me, military officer was ideal, someone with more ambition than me who would let me be the stay at home parent. DH wasn't any of that. He had dropped out of school and wasn't working. I made him get a job before I'd start dating him. He worked as a host at a restaurant and then as cab driver. (And everyone here is probably wondering why I didn't run away.)
What he brings to the relationship is worth more to me than any amount of money. A guy who is far from perfect on paper can end up being the perfect guy for you.

[kristi28]

Jan 13, 2011 22:02:00 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

He could have double-majored and is calling it two Bachelor's degrees, or you assumed he meant two Bachelor's degrees when he believes he said it was double-major.

If he has a degree in Engineering and a second major in another college at the same university, some institutions will award two degrees (a BE in Civil Engineering and a BS in Mathematics) - presto two bachelors degrees. This always struck me as a strange practice, but some places do it.

[Deleted]

Jan 14, 2011 0:09:29 GMT -5 @kristi28 said:

Jan 13, 2011 22:02:00 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

He could have double-majored and is calling it two Bachelor's degrees, or you assumed he meant two Bachelor's degrees when he believes he said it was double-major.

If he has a degree in Engineering and a second major in another college at the same university, some institutions will award two degrees (a BE in Civil Engineering and a BS in Mathematics) - presto two bachelors degrees. This always struck me as a strange practice, but some places do it.

Yep, my cousin is one of those.... He double majored : Biology and African-American Studies. He received two degrees.
He went on to get his masters in Biomedical Sciences and now is in Med School... don't think he will ever use the African-American studies degree but guess he just wanted to do it.

[quotequeen]

Jan 13, 2011 23:18:21 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

I knew someone who had her BSN by age 18. And I've also known women who planned on being stay at home moms (at 18, that was my plan, now I'm the primary breadwinner). What plans people have when they are not in a relationship can change drastically once they get in one.
If you have only talked to this guy on the phone and you're already uncomfortable with his age and what he wants for the future, then don't go on the date. Don't let a focus on finding the "right" one force you into a relationship with the wrong one.
However, if you're willing to give him a chance, be honestly willing to give him one.
I had always wanted a man with as much or more education than me, military officer was ideal, someone with more ambition than me who would let me be the stay at home parent. DH wasn't any of that. He had dropped out of school and wasn't working. I made him get a job before I'd start dating him. He worked as a host at a restaurant and then as cab driver. (And everyone here is probably wondering why I didn't run away.)
What he brings to the relationship is worth more to me than any amount of money. A guy who is far from perfect on paper can end up being the perfect guy for you.

That's all fine, but if you go around announcing to your prospective dates that they need to have XYZ in order for you to consider them worthy and they don't have that, you shouldn't be surprised when they walk in the other direction. Is it possible this guy will change his mind when he actually meets somebody? Sure. Does that mean the OP should spend her time finding out if that happens rather than finding people that aren't announcing they want things that are incompatible with her goals? Why bother? This isn't an "I love everything about him but I always thought I would be with somebody with a degree and he doesn't have one" situation. She doesn't even know the guy yet.

[whoisjohngalt]

Didn't read all the responses, may be should have. For once completely disagree with Phil

When you cut out all the noise: YOU - love your job. HE - wants to be SAHD. What exactly is the problem? Clearly, he knows how to handle money. Clearly, he can accomplish things. Again, what's the problem???

And!!!! He said he would do what HE has to to make family happy. And you still have a problem

You should not walk away from him, but RUN, bc you two are not a match

Lena

[zibazinski]

I have a lot of friends who have met their SO's/Husbands/whatever through personal dating websites because they, also, were busy professional women and wanted the pre-screening done for them. There's a lot of guys out there just like you and aren't into the bar scene or whatever young people do to hook up now. Like ANY relationship now, do a background check on anyone before you get too serious or if you think the guy has "possibilities."

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jan 14, 2011 0:35:41 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Jan 14, 2011 0:09:29 GMT -5 @kristi28 said:

If he has a degree in Engineering and a second major in another college at the same university, some institutions will award two degrees (a BE in Civil Engineering and a BS in Mathematics) - presto two bachelors degrees. This always struck me as a strange practice, but some places do it.

Yep, my cousin is one of those.... He double majored : Biology and African-American Studies. He received two degrees.
He went on to get his masters in Biomedical Sciences and now is in Med School... don't think he will ever use the African-American studies degree but guess he just wanted to do it.

One of my sisters has a degree in Biology (along with nursing and law) simply because her adviser took a hard look at her credits and pointed out that if she took 1 particular class,, she'd have the right stuff. She figured "what the h3ll" and took the class...

[soon2bmomof3]

Wow Beth, what did she end up doing? Nursing, Law, Doctor?

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jan 14, 2011 9:49:15 GMT -5 @soon2bmomof3 said:

Wow Beth, what did she end up doing? Nursing, Law, Doctor?

Law. She does work at a local hospital though, heading their legal dept. She seems to like it and the hours are much better for her family life than the law firm she used to work at. And it pays better than nursing did/does.

I don't think any of the family would be surprised if she went back to school again, once the kids are out of the nest. She was the A student out of us.

[shanendoah]

Jan 14, 2011 8:12:54 GMT -5 quotequeen said:

Jan 13, 2011 23:18:21 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

I knew someone who had her BSN by age 18. And I've also known women who planned on being stay at home moms (at 18, that was my plan, now I'm the primary breadwinner). What plans people have when they are not in a relationship can change drastically once they get in one.
If you have only talked to this guy on the phone and you're already uncomfortable with his age and what he wants for the future, then don't go on the date. Don't let a focus on finding the "right" one force you into a relationship with the wrong one.
However, if you're willing to give him a chance, be honestly willing to give him one.
I had always wanted a man with as much or more education than me, military officer was ideal, someone with more ambition than me who would let me be the stay at home parent. DH wasn't any of that. He had dropped out of school and wasn't working. I made him get a job before I'd start dating him. He worked as a host at a restaurant and then as cab driver. (And everyone here is probably wondering why I didn't run away.)
What he brings to the relationship is worth more to me than any amount of money. A guy who is far from perfect on paper can end up being the perfect guy for you.

That's all fine, but if you go around announcing to your prospective dates that they need to have XYZ in order for you to consider them worthy and they don't have that, you shouldn't be surprised when they walk in the other direction. Is it possible this guy will change his mind when he actually meets somebody? Sure. Does that mean the OP should spend her time finding out if that happens rather than finding people that aren't announcing they want things that are incompatible with her goals? Why bother? This isn't an "I love everything about him but I always thought I would be with somebody with a degree and he doesn't have one" situation. She doesn't even know the guy yet.

I agree with you. All I am saying is she has two choices: cancel the date or go on it. If she is really that uncomfortable she should cancel the date. BUT, if she decides to go on it, she should do so with an open mind. If she's going to give the guy a chance, she needs to actually be willing to give the guy a chance, not just go on the date because its the path of least resisitance.

[HoneyBBQ]

My suggestion as a woman who was in a similar spot - just go on the date.

Don't worry about his age. Worry about how he acts.

You haven't met this guy yet. He could possibly have a whole host of issues that you haven't even found out about. He could smoke, he could chew with his mouth open, or he could be a low talker. Any number of deal breakers that you haven't even scratched the surface of and won't until you meet in person and REALLY get to know them.

As far as his education, ask some subtle questions on your date: "Wow, how did you manage to get all those degrees so quickly!" And then see if your BS-detector goes off.

Don't write him off before you even meet him.