Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
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Post by Tosh on Oct 16, 2011 17:41:52 GMT -5
I agree to some extent, I have a sense of awe and wonder at the sheer size and scale of the universe and its contents, but my significance is my human spirit, it provides me with meaning and purpose.
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Post by femmefatale on Oct 16, 2011 20:40:04 GMT -5
I am still having technical problems, please bear with me. See God is punishing you, you need to repent your wicked ways LOL!! How are You doing? Brotha Rick?
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Post by femmefatale on Oct 16, 2011 20:40:55 GMT -5
I don't much think Tosh is into repentence. Just a humble guess. ;D
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Post by femmefatale on Oct 16, 2011 20:41:23 GMT -5
Rick...
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Post by femmefatale on Oct 16, 2011 22:09:03 GMT -5
Loved it Rick!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2011 22:34:53 GMT -5
Are spirit and conscience the same or at least connected in your opinion? I agree to some extent, I have a sense of awe and wonder at the sheer size and scale of the universe and its contents, but my significance is my human spirit, it provides me with meaning and purpose.
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Tosh
Senior Member
Philosophy is dead.
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 11:24:54 GMT -5
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Post by Tosh on Oct 17, 2011 5:25:02 GMT -5
Not much point to living forever if one is not conscious of oneself and of ones existence, a heaven without memories and senses is living in an eternal coma !!! ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2011 11:22:11 GMT -5
Not much point to living forever if one is not conscious of oneself and of ones existence, a heaven without memories and senses is living in an eternal coma !!! ;D Many of the orphaned children of Romania, if you recall were left almost without human touch or care. Science discovered that these children did not thrive and in fact did not develop a conscience or consciousness. Many were not able to have loving relationships once they were adopted. This was a result of not being held and nurtured emotionally and physically. We can conclude that consciousness arises from interaction of physical and cognitive processes in the brain. Would you agree? conscience: The awareness of a moral or ethical aspect to one's conduct. consciousness: When human action is morally required or forbidden. In the Christian tradition the nature of this awareness and its status as knowledge is a central problem. On the one hand it is sinful to act against one's conscience; on the other hand conscience can deceive, since we can be mistaken about what is required or forbidden.
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Post by femmefatale on Oct 17, 2011 11:41:04 GMT -5
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Post by femmefatale on Oct 17, 2011 11:58:38 GMT -5
Ho Huummmm...GM, Tosh.
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Tosh
Senior Member
Philosophy is dead.
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 11:24:54 GMT -5
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Post by Tosh on Oct 17, 2011 12:37:49 GMT -5
Consciousness in my opinion is awareness, culminating in self awareness, Freud named it the ego ( I am ).
Our conscience is a product of our environment, and is known as the super ego.
Lastly we have our genetic sub conscious drives and instincts, known as the Id.
We are quite complex, the interactions between these causes and effects enable humans to be good and evil.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 9:52:40 GMT -5
Consciousness in my opinion is awareness, culminating in self awareness, Freud named it the ego ( I am ). Our conscience is a product of our environment, and is known as the super ego. Lastly we have our genetic sub conscious drives and instincts, known as the Id. We are quite complex, the interactions between these causes and effects enable humans to be good and evil. Are individual consciousnesses therefore, somewhat like Schrödinger's Cat to the outside observer? Until the true state regarding evil is revealed the unobserved individual consciousness would be simultaneously good and evil? Similarly wouldn't the universe simultaneously, both contain a God and the absence of one?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 11:41:50 GMT -5
Consciousness in my opinion is awareness, culminating in self awareness, Freud named it the ego ( I am ). Our conscience is a product of our environment, and is known as the super ego. Lastly we have our genetic sub conscious drives and instincts, known as the Id. We are quite complex, the interactions between these causes and effects enable humans to be good and evil. Are individual consciousnesses therefore, somewhat like Schrödinger's Cat to the outside observer? Until the true state regarding evil is revealed the unobserved individual consciousness would be simultaneously good and evil? Similarly wouldn't the universe simultaneously, both contain a God and the absence of one? I think that the most that can be said is that the unobserved individual consciousness, until it manifests itself in the world through some action or expressed thought, has the possibility or potential of being good OR evil or any number of combinations of the two, but not both good AND evil at the same time and in the same way. Opposites cannot exist simultaneously in the same place and time, they would negate each other. It cannot be both hot and cold in the same place and time, it cannot be both light and dark in the same place and time, there cannot be a universe with a god and one without, in the same place and time. I don’t think this kind of simultaneous duality can even be accommodated in the farthest reaches of quantum mechanics theory. And why is Freud being thrown into the mix here? What does he have to do with the existence of god? Here is a guy who thought women’s place was essentially to be pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen. No woman could ever be whole because she lacked a penis of her very own. And I don’t care if god exists or not, I will not live in a universe where no woman is whole. Sheesh ;D Penis envy is the female counterpart to Freud’s concept of castration anxiety. In his theory of psychosexual development, Freud suggested that during the phallic stage (around ages 3-5) young girls distance themselves from their mothers and instead devote their affections to their fathers.
According to Freud, this occurs when a girl realizes that she has no penis. "Girls hold their mother responsible for their lack of a penis and do not forgive her for their being thus put at a disadvantage," Freud suggested (1933).His Civilization and Its Discontents does remain a seminal and powerful exploration of the dynamics between the individual and society.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 12:44:14 GMT -5
"I think that the most that can be said is that the unobserved individual consciousness, until it manifests itself in the world through some action or expressed thought, has the possibility or potential of being good OR evil" Perhaps there is no "choice" you either have a consiousness or you don't, some consider the lack of such to be a personality disorder. I believe it is a failure to thrive issue. Connections in the brain are not met in infancy and cannot be made, there is a small window of opportunity to nurture and create this aspect of consciousness.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 13:23:48 GMT -5
"I think that the most that can be said is that the unobserved individual consciousness, until it manifests itself in the world through some action or expressed thought, has the possibility or potential of being good OR evil"Perhaps there is no "choice" you either have a consiousness or you don't, some consider the lack of such to be a personality disorder. I believe it is a failure to thrive issue. Connections in the brain are not met in infancy and cannot be made, there is a small window of opportunity to nurture and create this aspect of consciousness. I was mostly using the term consciousness as the ability to be cognitive, to think and be self-aware. If we are talking about having a conscience, about the ability to empathize with others, to demonstrate love, care and concern for them, to distinguish between right and wrong, then I would place myself in the nurture as being more important than nature, camp in the development of a conscience. Still, it is quite possible, in fact more than likely, that some ‘bad seeds’ are born that way. Sociopaths and psychopaths can be created by their environments, but they can also be born. I don’t know enough about brain activity, chemical imbalances, genetic predispositions, etc, but some people are literally born missing something that does not allow them to connect with other human beings the way the vast majority of us do.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 13:52:38 GMT -5
"I think that the most that can be said is that the unobserved individual consciousness, until it manifests itself in the world through some action or expressed thought, has the possibility or potential of being good OR evil"Perhaps there is no "choice" you either have a consiousness or you don't, some consider the lack of such to be a personality disorder. I believe it is a failure to thrive issue. Connections in the brain are not met in infancy and cannot be made, there is a small window of opportunity to nurture and create this aspect of consciousness. I was mostly using the term consciousness as the ability to be cognitive, to think and be self-aware. If we are talking about having a conscience, about the ability to empathize with others, to demonstrate love, care and concern for them, to distinguish between right and wrong, then I would place myself in the nurture as being more important than nature, camp in the development of a conscience. Still, it is quite possible, in fact more than likely, that some ‘bad seeds’ are born that way. Sociopaths and psychopaths can be created by their environments, but they can also be born. I don’t know enough about brain activity, chemical imbalances, genetic predispositions, etc, but some people are literally born missing something that does not allow them to connect with other human beings the way the vast majority of us do. Nature versus nurture. I grew up living in the midst of that very experiment. Of course I didn't realize it until I became an adult. Robert, meet me for coffee at the usual spot, we'll chat.
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Post by jemima on Oct 19, 2011 6:12:05 GMT -5
Gotta be nuts to believe in that.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Oct 19, 2011 6:21:10 GMT -5
Yes he does! There is a place in his hell for people that have lost all sense of compassion.
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
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Post by Tosh on Oct 19, 2011 8:09:20 GMT -5
The presence or absence of compassion is irrelevant to a belief in God's existence, human history demonstrates this in spades, with or without God we are capable of good and evil.
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Forever Sunshine
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And someone seems to think it actually matters!
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Post by Forever Sunshine on Oct 19, 2011 10:38:59 GMT -5
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Post by jarhead1976 on Oct 19, 2011 10:55:59 GMT -5
Preferring compassion and good over evil is to believe in the relevance of God.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 11:12:15 GMT -5
The presence or absence of compassion is irrelevant to a belief in God's existence, human history demonstrates this in spades, with or without God we are capable of good and evil. That is an absolute. I don't believe that the lack of connections made in the brain of children like the orphans in Romani was an oversight of your god., more likely and gross negligence of caregivers or lack thereof.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 11:15:53 GMT -5
Preferring compassion and good over evil is to believe in the relevance of God. Not necessarily. Good versus Evil has historicaly taken on many forms.
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alpha
Junior Member
I find Sheeps Clothing Rather Unfashionable.
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Post by alpha on Oct 19, 2011 11:25:18 GMT -5
....that are all Relative.
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
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Post by Tosh on Oct 19, 2011 11:27:58 GMT -5
Preferring compassion and good over evil is to believe in the relevance of God.
Obviously this is a false statement since many people, myself included, prefer compassion and goodness over evil without any belief in the relevance of God.
We are affected and effected by the environment we create.
Creating a society that inflicts the worst suffering on the most number of people is obviously bad for everyone with a functioning brain.
Creating a society that promotes goodness and reduces suffering is good for obvious reasons.
Morality is not an unreasonable proposition if one is intent on increasing ones chances of survival and improving the quality of ones life.
It is not exactly quantum physics.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Oct 19, 2011 11:30:08 GMT -5
Good over Evil is not the same as Good vs Evil.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Oct 19, 2011 11:32:33 GMT -5
Preferring compassion and good over evil is to believe in the relevance of God. Obviously this is a false statement since many people, myself included, prefer compassion and goodness over evil without any belief in the relevance of God. We are affected and effected by the environment we create. Creating a society that inflicts the worst suffering on the most number of people is obviously bad for everyone with a functioning brain. Creating a society that promotes goodness and reduces suffering is good for obvious reasons. Morality is not an unreasonable proposition if one is intent on increasing ones chances of survival and improving the quality of ones life. It is not exactly quantum physics. The only difference is the spin. I beleive in God and my statement is far from false.
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alpha
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Post by alpha on Oct 19, 2011 11:32:47 GMT -5
One thing that has always bothered me about Religious Texts is that they are so Open to Metaphor and Interpretation. Taken out of Context, you can really make them say anything you want. Both the Bible and the Koran have been used to justify countless acts of Voilence and even Wars.
I would have thought that if God were to give us a text to follow, it would be more like a Physics Textbook full of Equations. Once Humans were Mature enough to figure them out and what the meant, they would be the same forever for anybody in the entire Universe. Not much help as a Moral guide mind you, but excellent proof of the existence of God.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 11:32:52 GMT -5
Good over Evil is not the same as Good vs Evil. Correct. Good over Evil, good over bad, right over wrong. etc. I know many people, religious and non religious. Religion appears not to be an indicator of whether a person is good or bad.
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Post by jemima on Oct 19, 2011 11:40:04 GMT -5
A society needs a share of both good and bad for stability purposes. Think of Yin and Yang.
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