Does God exist ?

[Tosh]

I am trying to make my mind up whether or not there is indeed a creator of the universe and whether or not humans are an intended outcome of this process.

The jury is out and I am looking for input.

[kgb18]

If you're looking for CSI-like proof, you'll never find it. Either you have faith or you don't.

[busymom]

I vote Yes!!!!

Just looking out my window at the diversity of plants, animals & birds in just my neighborhood, I can't believe all of that started with a "big bang".

[Tosh]

I thought we were not allowed to discuss this on this board.

I am sorry I did not know, rather strange topic to ban, I think human spirituality is very impportant.

[Tosh]

If you're looking for CSI-like proof, you'll never find it. Either you have faith or you don't.

I am not looking for evidence as such, I think reason would suffice.

[Tosh]

I vote Yes!!!!

Just looking out my window at the diversity of plants, animals & birds in just my neighborhood, I can't believe all of that started with a "big bang".

It is indeed a compelling thought, however would I feel the same staring at a barren earth in the middle of the last great ice age, pretty inhospitable.

[thyme4change]

Nope.

[Tosh]

The smoking gun of the earth, heavens, stars and everything else is right under your nose. Unless you think everything just poofed into existence by itself and out of Nothing came Everything. Absurd.

I am not sure the actual state of nothing exists, even God must have used something.

One can not rejecty the something from nothing premise and then use it to prove God.

[Tosh]

Nope.

You sound pretty sure and to a degree I envy your certainty, can you tell me your thought process ?

[Deleted]

Wasn't this one of your pet projects on the old UK boards.

I tend to lean towards agnosticism.

God would be the uncaused cause of the first cause. He has been on an extended vacation since the BIG BANG.

[thyme4change]

30+ years of listening to the Christian speak. The world was so confusing. 6 months away from it, and the world started making sense. The world being a bunch of random reactions to all the other random reactions made total sense. The idea that God sat around and decided to help some people and not help others for reasons that only he knows - it just doesn't make sense. And the Christian explaination is that it isn't suppose to make sense.

[Tosh]

Wasn't this one of your pet projects on the old UK boards.

I find it fascinating, it does occupy my thoughts somewhat.

What was your ID on the old UK forums ?

[Tosh]

30+ years of listening to the Christian speak. The world was so confusing. 6 months away from it, and the world started making sense. The world being a bunch of random reactions to all the other random reactions made total sense. The idea that God sat around and decided to help some people and not help others for reasons that only he knows - it just doesn't make sense. And the Christian explaination is that it isn't suppose to make sense.

I do not assume our perceptions of God are accurate, I am more interested in its existence.

[Bob Ross]

I still think it was all Zeus' doing.

And why not? He's just as arbitrary as the next guy.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Please define god first then I can tell you whether or not I think that being exists. Are we talking the christian view of a "benevolent" old white guy in the sky who sees everything that happens on the planet and decides to help some people while watching other people suffer for no reason? Or, are we just talking about some being who created the universe and doesn't necessarily give a damn what happens after?

[Tosh]

Where did God come from in your thinking? No matter what you believe, there has to be an uncaused beginning.

Does there ?

I don't see that as a logical conclusion, something may be an infinite condition.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

This thread is being locked. There are many religion forums online if this is something you really want to seriously discuss.

I'll leave the final decision to Moonbeam if she wishes to unlock.


SL - Mod EE

[whiskmav]

Sept 16, 2011 13:06:51 GMT -5 Tosh said:

I am trying to make my mind up whether or not there is indeed a creator of the universe and whether or not humans are an intended outcome of this process.

The jury is out and I am looking for input.

Of course there's a god, I'm right here, aren't I?

~Whiskmav
All Around Omnipotent Guy

[Tosh]

Please define god first then I can tell you whether or not I think that being exists. Are we talking the christian view of a "benevolent" old white guy in the sky who sees everything that happens on the planet and decides to help some people while watching other people suffer for no reason? Or, are we just talking about some being who created the universe and doesn't necessarily give a damn what happens after?

I would define God as the creator of the universe for a purpose, we may not know the purpose but we are part of this purpose. A sort of Deism because I don't believe it interferes in the design, this would suggest the design was flawed.

[moon/Laura]

Now that I have added a spiritual health section, I will unlock this and see where it goes, as tosh intends the topic to be philosophical.

DO NOT turn it into a flame war or it will be shut down again..

~moon mod

[Tosh]

There is no scientific evidence to suggest a state of nothingness exists outwith our universe, the big bang is the beginning of space-time, no one suggests it is the beginning of everything.

There are an estimated 500 billion trillion planets in our universe and there is life in our universe, the question is, is life an intended outcome of this process ?

If the purpose of the universe was to create life then we must assume its purpose includes consciousness, since evolution by natural selection will be the mechanism of life throughout our universe.

Consciousness is simply an awareness of being alive.

[sister65jani]

Yes he does! And my faith helps me Believe it!

[Tosh]

There can be no purpose without a Purposer. A random group of chemicals acting in a random way don't invent a direction or purpose. Science leaves the realm of science and instead begins subscribing God like qualities to genes, evolution and so forth as some orchestrated direction and purpose of which there could be none if God does not exist.

I agree that for the universe to have purpose it must have intentionality, how heavy a hand on the design is another question.

Randomness has two general meanings, unpredictable or undirected, if we can direct a design to produce unpredictability, then so can something else.

We tend to classify non-computational as random, but that is down to our own mathematical limitations, there is technically no randomness ( without cause) in a cause and effect universe.

[Tosh]

Yes he does! And my faith helps me Believe it!

You seem to be suggesting your faith in God's existence helps you believe God exists, I really can not fault this statement.

[Tosh]

evolution and so forth as some orchestrated direction and purpose of which there could be none if God does not exist.

I would suggest life itself has a purpose, its purpose is to survive and reproduce, what we are trying to fathom is where did this purpose come from, what caused it.

If life has a purpose then evolution must also have a purpose, it ensures the fittest survive.

[Deleted]

I believe God exists, because I was drawn to believe all the bible has to say concerning the existence of God..

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever that God exists.

[so1970]

i believe in god

[Tosh]

I believe God exists, because I was drawn to believe all the bible has to say concerning the existence of God..

I do not share your certainty that any god exists, never mind the monotheistic God of Abraham, I find it highly improbable that our creator would interact only in one region of our earth and to only one race. Humans have been in existence for 200,000 years and left Africa some 70,000 years ago to colonize the planet with religious beliefs intact, long before Abraham, Moses or Jesus. This suggests our religiosity comes from another source.

In my humble and Scottish opinion.

I do not believe the creator ( if it exists) created the universe for us, it is just too egocentric for my humble mind.

[Tosh]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever that God exists.

There are few certainties in life, death is one of them, and yet most people are absolutely sure some part of them will live on.

Some beliefs are understandable.