The NFL thread

[Shooby]

She is married to him now and hopefully he is getting the help he needs. And, unfortunately, now this is going to hurt her even further as he loses his job and their means to support their family.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I think that if he can dedicate that much time and effort into training and learning football (including control on the field), etc.  He should have fucking well learned some self control somewhere along teh way and NOT PUNCHED HER.  

He fucked up.  Big time.  You fuck up bigtime, you pay for it.  Well, he's paying for it.  And because you got into a quickie marriage with him (probably because this way you can't testify against him) you're paying too. 

[Shooby]

But, he probably should have thought of that before punching her in the face.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 9, 2014 8:07:08 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I think that if he can dedicate that much time and effort into training and learning football (including control on the field), etc.  He should have fucking well learned some self control somewhere along teh way and NOT PUNCHED HER.  

He fucked up.  Big time.  You fuck up bigtime, you pay for it.  Well, he's paying for it.  And because you got into a quickie marriage with him (probably because this way you can't testify against him) you're paying too. 

so, screw em both? 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 9, 2014 8:10:35 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 9, 2014 8:07:08 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I think that if he can dedicate that much time and effort into training and learning football (including control on the field), etc.  He should have fucking well learned some self control somewhere along teh way and NOT PUNCHED HER.  

He fucked up.  Big time.  You fuck up bigtime, you pay for it.  Well, he's paying for it.  And because you got into a quickie marriage with him (probably because this way you can't testify against him) you're paying too. 

so, screw em both? 

Sort of, yes.  I think a lot of athletes get used to having "incidents" be waved away by administrations/mangers/what have you.  And they learn all this stuff about how to play their sport.  But they're protected from learning about how bad actions have negative consequences.  And it starts in high schools and goes up to pro sports.  Look at Johnny Manzel and the reports on him from the last 2 years.  Guy was selling autographs in college (at least I think that was him); had pictures taken in the restroom with rolled up bills like he was going to be snorting something VERY soon, etc.  Criminal behavior isn't (or shouldn't be) desirable in the general public.  Why should athletes get away with it?  You tie yourself up with someone who does bad things, eventually it's gonna affect the entire household, be it drug use or physical abuse. 

And 2 NFL players have been busted for domestic abuse in the last month or so.  The NFL's got a problem.  And we'll see how this new policy plays out. 

If the NFL wants to make a difference in the world, they have to be VERY open about how they're treating domestic violence.  Because like it or not, domestic violence is a huge hot topic right now.  I think there are 2 other sports that could have a HUGE impact on how the world perceives domestic violence - NASCAR and Soccer.  Can you imagine what a force for change those 2 organization could be, if they really wanted to be on this topic?  And I don't mean the standard message stuff.  I mean pushing for grass roots change and activism. 

Beth stops rambling and steps down from soapbox. 

[NancysSummerSip]

I wonder if he put her up to that posting. Or if she really is that brainwashed. Or if her self-esteem really is that low. Or all of the above.

I don't get it, Janey. There are other men out there. Don't you deserve to be loved by one who doesn't hit you? Don't you understand that this won't be the last time, but the next time could be the last time? Don't you care about your little girl, and the fact that even years from now, she will still be able to view that video?

This is why I hold you accountable. You weren't legally tied to the man at the time, yet you went ahead with it anyway, after  he knocked you down and dragged you out. Why are you defending him? And accusing the media of using it to gain ratings? Really? It should just be swept under the carpet like an inconsequential dust bunny? You make it sound like it's the public's fault for seeing it, instead of his problem for committing it.

You know something? I hate to say this, kiddo, but maybe you do deserve each other. Your daughter, however, deserves better than to be the next link in the chain of violence. She didn't ask for it. You're courting it.

I hope the NFL learns from this and institutes a domestic violence course, which should be required by all newbie draftees (along with a financial/money management course). I realize that this kind of schooling is a bit late in life, but better late than never. It may prevent another Ray Rice.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 9, 2014 8:31:02 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Sept 9, 2014 8:10:35 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

so, screw em both? 

Sort of, yes.  I think a lot of athletes get used to having "incidents" be waved away by administrations/mangers/what have you.  And they learn all this stuff about how to play their sport.  But they're protected from learning about how bad actions have negative consequences.  And it starts in high schools and goes up to pro sports.  Look at Johnny Manzel and the reports on him from the last 2 years.  Guy was selling autographs in college (at least I think that was him); had pictures taken in the restroom with rolled up bills like he was going to be snorting something VERY soon, etc.  Criminal behavior isn't (or shouldn't be) desirable in the general public.  Why should athletes get away with it?  You tie yourself up with someone who does bad things, eventually it's gonna affect the entire household, be it drug use or physical abuse. 

And 2 NFL players have been busted for domestic abuse in the last month or so.  The NFL's got a problem.  And we'll see how this new policy plays out. 

If the NFL wants to make a difference in the world, they have to be VERY open about how they're treating domestic violence.  Because like it or not, domestic violence is a huge hot topic right now.  I think there are 2 other sports that could have a HUGE impact on how the world perceives domestic violence - NASCAR and Soccer.  Can you imagine what a force for change those 2 organization could be, if they really wanted to be on this topic?  And I don't mean the standard message stuff.  I mean pushing for grass roots change and activism. 

Beth stops rambling and steps down from soapbox. 

So screw the victim, in this case, because they need to send a message to the rest of league, which is for the greater good.  She gets to be a martyr whether she likes it or not?

[Shooby]

So, if ANY accusation is made about any player at any time, then they are to do what exactly? Immediately fire or suspend anyone before they know anything? BTW, was she somehow less beaten down because he played 2 games instead of being suspended 2 games prior to that?
And, is it the job of your boss to run around investigating the lives of all their employees? The truth came out and he lost his job. So, if that is his just desserts then he got what he deserved so what is the problem?

Sports actually used to be nice way to enjoy and escape life. Sports USED to be about focusing on the game. Now, it is just the new home of celebrity gossip and social issues.

[chiver78]

rant away, Beth and Nancy. you're both spot on

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 9, 2014 8:32:37 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

I wonder if he put her up to that posting. Or if she really is that brainwashed. Or if her self-esteem really is that low. Or all of the above.

I don't get it, Janey. There are other men out there. Don't you deserve to be loved by one who doesn't hit you? Don't you understand that this won't be the last time, but the next time could be the last time? Don't you care about your little girl, and the fact that even years from now, she will still be able to view that video?

This is why I hold you accountable. You weren't legally tied to the man at the time, yet you went ahead with it anyway, after  he knocked you down and dragged you out. Why are you defending him? And accusing the media of using it to gain ratings? Really? It should just be swept under the carpet like an inconsequential dust bunny? You make it sound like it's the public's fault for seeing it, instead of his problem for committing it.

You know something? I hate to say this, kiddo, but maybe you do deserve each other. Your daughter, however, deserves better than to be the next link in the chain of violence. She didn't ask for it. You're courting it.

I hope the NFL learns from this and institutes a domestic violence course, which should be required by all newbie draftees (along with a financial/money management course). I realize that this kind of schooling is a bit late in life, but better late than never. It may prevent another Ray Rice.

So she really isn't a victim?  She quote, unquote "got what she deserved?"

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 9, 2014 8:33:50 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 9, 2014 8:31:02 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Sort of, yes.  I think a lot of athletes get used to having "incidents" be waved away by administrations/mangers/what have you.  And they learn all this stuff about how to play their sport.  But they're protected from learning about how bad actions have negative consequences.  And it starts in high schools and goes up to pro sports.  Look at Johnny Manzel and the reports on him from the last 2 years.  Guy was selling autographs in college (at least I think that was him); had pictures taken in the restroom with rolled up bills like he was going to be snorting something VERY soon, etc.  Criminal behavior isn't (or shouldn't be) desirable in the general public.  Why should athletes get away with it?  You tie yourself up with someone who does bad things, eventually it's gonna affect the entire household, be it drug use or physical abuse. 

And 2 NFL players have been busted for domestic abuse in the last month or so.  The NFL's got a problem.  And we'll see how this new policy plays out. 

If the NFL wants to make a difference in the world, they have to be VERY open about how they're treating domestic violence.  Because like it or not, domestic violence is a huge hot topic right now.  I think there are 2 other sports that could have a HUGE impact on how the world perceives domestic violence - NASCAR and Soccer.  Can you imagine what a force for change those 2 organization could be, if they really wanted to be on this topic?  And I don't mean the standard message stuff.  I mean pushing for grass roots change and activism. 

Beth stops rambling and steps down from soapbox. 

So screw the victim, in this case, because they need to send a message to the rest of league, which is for the greater good.  She gets to be a martyr whether she likes it or not?

No, she doesn't deserve to get screwed.  She deserves a nice life somewhere where she won't get hit.  But she made a bad choice to get involved with this guy.  She made it worse by marrying him AFTER the incident.  Did they really, really REALLY think it would just die down and the video would never be released?  Then they're dumb on top of everything else. 

And yes, the NFL needs to treat every case of drug use and domestic violence as a message for the greater good.  If that makes her a martyr in your eyes instead of stupid (in mine), then so be it. 

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 9, 2014 9:09:44 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Sept 9, 2014 8:33:50 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

So screw the victim, in this case, because they need to send a message to the rest of league, which is for the greater good.  She gets to be a martyr whether she likes it or not?

No, she doesn't deserve to get screwed.  She deserves a nice life somewhere where she won't get hit.  But she made a bad choice to get involved with this guy.  She made it worse by marrying him AFTER the incident.  Did they really, really REALLY think it would just die down and the video would never be released?  Then they're dumb on top of everything else. 

And yes, the NFL needs to treat every case of drug use and domestic violence as a message for the greater good.  If that makes her a martyr in your eyes instead of stupid (in mine), then so be it. 

I don't know what that makes her in my eyes.    It is a hard situation that I certainly don't know the answer to.  Like most things, I see both sides.    From her point of view, it is her choice if she wants to stay married to him.  Is it also her choice to think that the incident was a mistake that they are working on or is it societies job to protect her from own bad decision making?  Again, I don't know.  

Along those same lines, was she the victim of a specific crime that occurred that night and as such deserves treatment like a victim or because they are married and living together she has taken on some of the responsibility of the crime that was committed and is partially as guilty as he is?   


Not easy.  I certainly don't know the answers. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Archie, how would you react if one of your girls was in this woman's shoes?  Or if your boy was in his shoes? 

[NancysSummerSip]

Sept 9, 2014 8:53:49 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 9, 2014 8:32:37 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

I wonder if he put her up to that posting. Or if she really is that brainwashed. Or if her self-esteem really is that low. Or all of the above.

I don't get it, Janey. There are other men out there. Don't you deserve to be loved by one who doesn't hit you? Don't you understand that this won't be the last time, but the next time could be the last time? Don't you care about your little girl, and the fact that even years from now, she will still be able to view that video?

This is why I hold you accountable. You weren't legally tied to the man at the time, yet you went ahead with it anyway, after  he knocked you down and dragged you out. Why are you defending him? And accusing the media of using it to gain ratings? Really? It should just be swept under the carpet like an inconsequential dust bunny? You make it sound like it's the public's fault for seeing it, instead of his problem for committing it.

You know something? I hate to say this, kiddo, but maybe you do deserve each other. Your daughter, however, deserves better than to be the next link in the chain of violence. She didn't ask for it. You're courting it.

I hope the NFL learns from this and institutes a domestic violence course, which should be required by all newbie draftees (along with a financial/money management course). I realize that this kind of schooling is a bit late in life, but better late than never. It may prevent another Ray Rice.

So she really isn't a victim?  She quote, unquote "got what she deserved?"

I never said she got what she deserved.  You're only a victim once, and we can certainly pretend that this video show the first time he hit her. I would not bet on that, though. That looked like a punch well-practiced, like he knew exactly how to bring her down.
She's putting herself into the recurring victim role by 1) marrying this monster (recall what I said, that she was his fiancee at the time of the assault) and 2) posting that stupid crap about how people are making a big deal out of it for ratings.

No, people are making a big deal out of it because it is a big deal. And if she wants to build him up by portraying him as a hard-working football playing family guy, then her deck is missing a few cards, and the rest are nothing but jokers.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 9, 2014 9:21:08 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Sept 9, 2014 8:53:49 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

So she really isn't a victim?  She quote, unquote "got what she deserved?"

I never said she got what she deserved.  You're only a victim once, and we can certainly pretend that this video show the first time he hit her. I would not bet on that, though. That looked like a punch well-practiced, like he knew exactly how to bring her down.
She's putting herself into the recurring victim role by 1) marrying this monster (recall what I said, that she was his fiancee at the time of the assault) and 2) posting that stupid crap about how people are making a big deal out of it for ratings.

No, people are making a big deal out of it because it is a big deal. And if she wants to build him up by portraying him as a hard-working football playing family guy, then her deck is missing a few cards, and the rest are nothing but jokers.[b/]

So it is her fault, then....

[ArchietheDragon]

If she was punched like that by a complete stranger I think the case would be much different.  I guess my question is, does she lose the "right" to be treated as if the criminal was a complete stranger because it is her husband. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

"So it is her fault, then...."

For marrying him?  Absolutely.  She married him AFTER he punched her so hard he knocked her out.  It was public then.  She married him knowing that the public knew he hit her and they both were admitting that she tired to react back.  It was big news then.  And she married him.  That was big news too.  She didn't get too upset about that.  And then the NFL did it's punishment thing and guess what - it was big news once again. 

Anyone who is remotely aware of current events in teh US knows the domestic violence is a hot topic.  So yeah, she's at fault for thinking this wasn't going to become a bigger deal once the video surfaced. 

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 9, 2014 9:30:56 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

"So it is her fault, then...."

For marrying him?  Absolutely.  She married him AFTER he punched her so hard he knocked her out.  It was public then.  She married him knowing that the public knew he hit her and they both were admitting that she tired to react back.  It was big news then.  And she married him.  That was big news too.  She didn't get too upset about that.  And then the NFL did it's punishment thing and guess what - it was big news once again. 

Anyone who is remotely aware of current events in teh US knows the domestic violence is a hot topic.  So yeah, she's at fault for thinking this wasn't going to become a bigger deal once the video surfaced. 

It is just hard, because for most crimes, the victim wants the criminal to be punished, but in cases like the the victim gets hurt when the criminal is punished.   Is there a way for the victim to request leniency, like situations where a teenage drunk driver kills their friend in a car crash and the parents of the victim request that the criminal be spared jail time. 

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 9, 2014 9:20:38 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Archie, how would you react if one of your girls was in this woman's shoes?  Or if your boy was in his shoes? 

No idea.     I do know that having the world watch my daughter getting punched and would suck. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 9, 2014 9:26:22 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

If she was punched like that by a complete stranger I think the case would be much different.  I guess my question is, does she lose the "right" to be treated as if the criminal was a complete stranger because it is her husband. 

He wasn't her husband.  He was her fiance.  She could have walked away then.  Taken a trial separation from him.  Instead she married him.  And I'm cynically because I think she married him because she was told she could "protect" him if it came to court.

And getting punched like that shouldn't matter if it's a complete stranger or a husband/fiance.  IT SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING. 

Are you teaching your kids not to hit?  Shouldn't a grown man know not to hit? 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 9, 2014 9:39:42 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 9, 2014 9:20:38 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Archie, how would you react if one of your girls was in this woman's shoes?  Or if your boy was in his shoes? 

No idea.     I do know that having the world watch my daughter getting punched and would suck. 

Ok, fair enough. 

My boy is extremely big and strong for his age - if I'm not braced correctly, he can drag me a few steps and I outweigh him by a lot.  He's 4.  I've seen him perform a really nice take down tackle on his sister already.  We KNOW we need to make sure he's got no hitting is built into him.  And I got proof on Sunday that it's starting to take effect - he got scratched hard by the neighbor boy (who's almost 3 years younger and was severely premature on top of that)  Cabe came crying to me to get a bandaid for his scratch but did not retaliate on T. 

[ArchietheDragon]

The bottom line is that she gets the short end of the stick all the way around this incident.  She did nothing wrong, other than marrying and staying married to a criminal, which is not a crime in and of itself and she gets screwed by everyone.    Being a woman sucks. 


And I understand, she hooked herself to the wrong wagon, and she gets what comes with it....  it still sucks for her. 

[NancysSummerSip]

Sept 9, 2014 10:06:17 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

The bottom line is that she gets the short end of the stick all the way around this incident.  She did nothing wrong, other than marrying and staying married to a criminal, which is not a crime in and of itself and she gets screwed by everyone.    Being a woman sucks. 


And I understand, she hooked herself to the wrong wagon, and she gets what comes with it....  it still sucks for her. 

She made the decision, Archie. He hit her before they got hitched. And even if they had been married, she could have walked. She stayed. He will very likely do it again. He very likely did it before the elevator incident.

Yes, it sucks for her. But it doesn't have to continue to suck for her. She's pissy mad because the media has a hold of the story. She's the fiancee and now wife of an NFL player. The media comes with the territory. Has she been living under a Luddite rock somewhere that she wouldn't know about 24/7 news coverage?

Love isn't supposed to hurt. Love isn't supposed to leave you scarred for life and scared for your life. Real men do not hit women. And real women don't accept that kind of behavior.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 9, 2014 10:19:35 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Sept 9, 2014 10:06:17 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

The bottom line is that she gets the short end of the stick all the way around this incident.  She did nothing wrong, other than marrying and staying married to a criminal, which is not a crime in and of itself and she gets screwed by everyone.    Being a woman sucks. 


And I understand, she hooked herself to the wrong wagon, and she gets what comes with it....  it still sucks for her. 

She made the decision, Archie. He hit her before they got hitched. And even if they had been married, she could have walked. She stayed. He will very likely do it again. He very likely did it before the elevator incident.

Yes, it sucks for her. But it doesn't have to continue to suck for her. She's pissy mad because the media has a hold of the story. She's the fiancee and now wife of an NFL player. The media comes with the territory. Has she been living under a Luddite rock somewhere that she wouldn't know about 24/7 news coverage?

Love isn't supposed to hurt. Love isn't supposed to leave you scarred for life and scared for your life. Real men do not hit women. And real women don't accept that kind of behavior.     

I guess that is the only part that I have issue with.   Lots of women do stay in those situations for different reasons.   it is hard to condemn them all.   

[billisonboard]

Who hits whom in the video? Who is moving towards the other? 
deadspin.com/heres-video-of-ray-rice-knocking-out-his-fiancee-in-an-1631864196

Looks to me to be a mutually violent relationship.  He just got in the more effective blow. 

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 9, 2014 10:28:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Who hits whom in the video? Who is moving towards the other? 
deadspin.com/heres-video-of-ray-rice-knocking-out-his-fiancee-in-an-1631864196

Looks to me to be a mutually violent relationship.  He just got in the more effective blow. 

I believe she hit him and spit on him before he hit her. 

[NancysSummerSip]

Sept 9, 2014 10:23:53 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 9, 2014 10:19:35 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

She made the decision, Archie. He hit her before they got hitched. And even if they had been married, she could have walked. She stayed. He will very likely do it again. He very likely did it before the elevator incident.

Yes, it sucks for her. But it doesn't have to continue to suck for her. She's pissy mad because the media has a hold of the story. She's the fiancee and now wife of an NFL player. The media comes with the territory. Has she been living under a Luddite rock somewhere that she wouldn't know about 24/7 news coverage?

Love isn't supposed to hurt. Love isn't supposed to leave you scarred for life and scared for your life. Real men do not hit women. And real women don't accept that kind of behavior.     

I guess that is the only part that I have issue with.   Lots of women do stay in those situations for different reasons.   it is hard to condemn them all.   

I don't condemn them. I worked enough years in the criminal justice system to see plenty of women, with fresh black eyes and brand-new casts on their arms, come into jail and beg us to be allowed to bail out the men who had inflicted those injuries, then cry when they found out they could not. Many women are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The are poor and uneducated and have limited skills and literally cannot afford to survive without that man at home. And if they don't bail him out, he'll beat them even more when he is finally released.

Janey Rice isn't one of those women. She was not married to the man who hit her. She had the physical ability and at least some economic means to leave, as well as the support of the NFL's DV policy to back her up. My feeling is that she did not want to rock her nice little pretty boat that NFL money could buy. Or maybe the violence was an ongoing thing, and it was just how they lived. Or perhaps she thought she could change him if she stayed. Well, her boat is sunk, and she cannot change him.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 9, 2014 10:33:28 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Sept 9, 2014 10:23:53 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

I guess that is the only part that I have issue with.   Lots of women do stay in those situations for different reasons.   it is hard to condemn them all.   

I don't condemn them. I worked enough years in the criminal justice system to see plenty of women, with fresh black eyes and brand-new casts on their arms, come into jail and beg us to be allowed to bail out the men who had inflicted those injuries, then cry when they found out they could not. Many women are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The are poor and uneducated and have limited skills and literally cannot afford to survive without that man at home. And if they don't bail him out, he'll beat them even more when he is finally released.

Janey Rice isn't one of those women. She was not married to the man who hit her. She had the physical ability and at least some economic means to leave, as well as the support of the NFL's DV policy to back her up. My feeling is that she did not want to rock her nice little pretty boat that NFL money could buy. Or maybe the violence was an ongoing thing, and it was just how they lived. Or perhaps she thought she could change him if she stayed. Well, her boat is sunk, and she cannot change him.

But if real women don't accept that kind of action, then even real poor women or real dumb women wouldn't accept  it.   But real women do all of the time.   In all sorts of situations for all sorts of reasons.  Again, it sucks to be a woman. 

[kent]

My feeling is that she did not want to rock her nice little pretty boat that NFL money could buy.

If I heard correctly, he lost a $10M contract because of his actions and that probably has an impact on her decision to go public and try to "protect" him.  

[NancysSummerSip]

Sept 9, 2014 11:01:39 GMT -5 kent said:

My feeling is that she did not want to rock her nice little pretty boat that NFL money could buy.

If I heard correctly, he lost a $10M contract because of his actions and that probably has an impact on her decision to go public and try to "protect" him.  

Very likely the major reason. It's a fall from grace for her as much as it is for him. No prestige, no ego boost and no perks for her.

These four words are the saddest of all, from her post:

'This Is Our Life!'

And a damned sad declaration, if ever I heard one. She went on Instagram to proclaim that, and sass the media and the public for daring to pay attention to the situation. That's why I said that maybe they deserve each other. I never said she deserved what she got, or deserved to get hit. But clearly, as far as intellect goes, they are evenly matched. Both of them apparently have very little.