The NFL thread

[tallguy]

No, the words you were looking for were, "You're right.  I jumped the gun.  It is too early to call him elite.  But he did have a great run, and we won the Super Bowl!  I'm a fan.  Sue me!" 

A few other points:

Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger have won two Super Bowls.  Does that make them twice as good as Flacco?  Are Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, and Trent Dilfer just as good because they won one?  And even Mark Sanchez won four playoff games his first two years.  It's a silly argument.  TEAMS win. 

Playcalling is dictated as much by your talent and capabilities as by philosophy.  If Flacco were capable of a lot more, the playcalling would reflect that.

Yes, as I said, the defense was hurt last year, and they lost games because of it.  But over the years they have been very good, and are a bigger reason for the team's success.

And for the record, no I am not a 49er fan.  And no, Joe is not taller than me.   





 

 

[wvugurl26]

Yeah and according to the stats, Tony Romo is a great QB. I don't buy it and Jones made a serious mistake giving him that huge contract.

[Deleted]

See, wvu gets it!

Oh, tallyguy, you lost your credibility when you stated "Playcalling is dictated as much by your talent and capabilities as by philosophy. If Flacco were capable of a lot more, the playcalling would reflect that." Go research Cam Cameron and his history with quarterbacks.

Also, my whole argument on Flacco's talent is not dependent on him being the Super Bowl MVP. You keep focusing on that. I never stated that you had to be elite to win a Super Bowl. That was stated because the Flacco bashers have repeatedly stated that although he won games, he couldn't win the "big one". I included that accomplishment because it is relevant, but not my entire reasoning.
 
Are you telling me that all the other elite quarterbacks never had good defenses to help them win?

How do I know you are taller than Joe? You could be calling yourself "tallguy" and really be 5'2 just to throw us off the track.

The words you were looking for were "You're right, I haven't done my homework. Joe is pretty darned good. I can see why you call him elite, but I don't quite think he's there yet. You sure know a lot about football."

[wvugurl26]

I don't think anyone would argue the skills of Marino yet he never won the big one. He's still be first ballot HOF.

[tallguy]

Oh, tallyguy, you lost your credibility when you stated "Playcalling is dictated as much by your talent and capabilities as by philosophy. If Flacco were capable of a lot more, the playcalling would reflect that." Go research Cam Cameron and his history with quarterbacks.

Okay.  Here's some quotes:
www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Cam-Cameron-Offers-His-Philosophy-On-Balance/13914582-15ff-475e-a84b-1d35d1ce6b4d

Cameron formulates the game plan each week based on what he feels will work best against the opposing defenses’ weaknesses and tendencies. It’s not about trying to get a 50/50 split.

“It’s about attacking the defense we’re playing,” he said. “We may throw it every down some games. If we think that’s what we need to do to win the game, that’s what we’re going to do."

And,

Cameron also pointed to his track record in regards to giving the ball to running back Ray Rice, another topic of frequent debate in Baltimore.

Rice has touched the ball more than any non-quarterback in the NFL over the past two seasons....

“If we as a staff gave Ray Rice the ball as much as everybody wants us to, he would wind up like the rest of the backs in this league,” Cameron said, making a reference to tailbacks who break down early in their careers.

“We’re not going to let that happen.”

So he is willing to throw the ball every down if he thinks that will help the team win, and he doesn't want to overuse Rice. I can certainly see how he is holding Flacco back.....     

And you brought up the Super Bowl MVP thing.  I only mentioned the others because you mocked Rodgers for only having won one and intimating that Flacco was thus his equal.  He's not.  Nowhere close.

And yeah, I was 5'2" once.  I think I was about 10 at the time....    

[chiver78]

Jul 31, 2013 10:31:10 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

I don't think anyone would argue the skills of Marino yet he never won the big one. He's still be first ballot HOF.

ugh.....ew.

[NoNamePerson]

Damn, sounds like this thread may be active during football season Bring em on folks

[wvugurl26]

And citing the ex Ravens offensive coordinator proves what exactly? The playoff run was made after they fired Cameron.

I don't think he's total HOF stuff yet but he is a lot better than many other QBs out there. I'd Romo for him in a NYC minute.

[Deleted]

Lmao tallguy! You used quotes from Cam Cameron himself What do you think he is going to say?

You weren't thorough enough in your research. How about looking at another quarterback, Drew Brees.  I remember back when "experts" (perhaps you were one of them?) were questioning Drew Brees’ ability to deliver on the big stage when he spent four of his first five seasons as a pro in Cam Cameron’s offense with the San Diego Chargers during the 2002 through 2005 seasons.

Compare Brees’ numbers from ’02-’05 with Flacco’s from ’08-’11, and they look nearly identical. Brees passed for 79 touchdowns, 53 interceptions during his first four years starting, while Flacco scored 71 touchdowns to 39 picks through his three-and-a-half seasons in the league.

I mocked Rodgers? I simply pointed out that he had the same number of rings as Joe. Does that bother you?

Okay, so perhaps you are just jealous of Joe's toughness. Don't go changing your name to talltoughguy now. 

Hi NoName.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I'll stick with Aaron Rogers, thank you very much.   

Come on football season! 

[nalto]

SEAHAWKS!!

Just under 12 hours...

[Wisconsin Beth]

Is it me or are there more injuries in camp/preseason this year than normal? 

[NoNamePerson]

Seems to be more or they are just reporting each and every one of them.

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL? I know I am. I don't count the HOF game LOL but ready now for preseason to get ripping

[nalto]

Aug 8, 2013 9:24:07 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Is it me or are there more injuries in camp/preseason this year than normal? 

I think that it's just more "high profile" guys injured than normal...

[Malarky]

Some thoughts on the pre-season Pats.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we play our third string in the preseason last year?  I see Tom Brady out there, leading the pack right now.  We need to put our best foot forward, and Tom is the epitome of hard work and talent.   

Aaron Hernandez was a slap in the face.  Shame on him,  IF HE IS GUILTY (and I think he is, but he is entitled to due process, and it is not for me to decide.)  What a waste of the opportunities afforded him by his talent and those that recognized his talent and showed him a different way of life. 

And we have Tim Tebow and some are mocking us for this.  I just have to say, I used to feel differently, and I am not particularly (at all)religious, but he seems to be a good athlete, a team player and a genuinely good person.  I hope he gets the opportunity to showcase his talents here. 

Looking forward to the regular season.  Whatever it brings... 

[tallguy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we play our third string in the preseason last year?

Everybody plays the second-, third-, and fourth-string guys in the preseason.  That's really the only way for most young players to earn a job.  The starters will play a couple series in the first game, maybe half of the second, into the second half of the third, and almost none of the fourth.  It's a combination of trying to get the maximum look at guys you don't really know about yet, and avoiding injuries for your best players.  They do need to play some to get used to the contact again, to shake off the rust, and to get their timing down. 

Starters will also play more if there is a new coaching staff and new system in place, but for the most part the teams don't want them hurt playing preseason games against a bunch of guys trying to earn a job by making an impression.  Brady may play more because he has basically a whole new crop of receivers to throw to, and it takes time and repetitions to get on the same page.

And you can read my thoughts on Tebow above (reply #752.)  

[NoNamePerson]

Well, I am toggling back and forth between Pats game and Saints game but basically biding time till Raiders come on around 9:30!!!

I'm just plain happy that football season is finally here

[Malarky]

I'm just plain happy that football season is finally here

I never got back to Chiver about  the Sox.  I can't sit in the stands through a game.  I'm lucky to last a game on my couch.  

So no Red sox this year at Fenway.  If the hometown(for Chiver and I)  team makes it to the Superbowl at Foxboro, we are so there, pain be damned. 

[wvugurl26]

I think they normally play first/second string for a quarter or two and then they yank them. They don't want them getting hurt and they want to see which guys they want on the roster.

If Hernandez is guilty he threw away his life and messed up the lives of many others. I feel sorry for his kid.

[tallguy]

Well, it looks like the Tebow experiment is over.  Not surprising at all, actually.  He just isn't an NFL-caliber quarterback.  He might be able to lead a team, but he can't throw.  What IS surprising (to me, at least) is that he apparently never even worked at any other position throughout all of training camp.  As I said earlier, he's a tough kid and a good football player.  But he seems to be insistent on only playing quarterback.  Nice dedication to a dream, but not very realistic if he wants an NFL career. 

[NoNamePerson]

I don't understand the wanting to play QB only. But that is where all the "glory" is so maybe that is his thinking. He should have just said I will play any position. Heck, if memory serves me Joe Theisman was returning punts just to make the Skins team. Other players over the years have done the same thing just to stay on the roster. But such is life in the NFL.....

[Wisconsin Beth]

I"m still surprised Green Bay didn't pick Tebow up. 

[nalto]

Sept 3, 2013 14:55:17 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I"m still surprised Green Bay didn't pick Tebow up. 

Me too. Seneca Wallace vs. Tebow, I'd go Tebow every time.

[chiver78]

Sept 3, 2013 17:34:39 GMT -5 nalto said:

Sept 3, 2013 14:55:17 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I"m still surprised Green Bay didn't pick Tebow up. 

Me too. Seneca Wallace vs. Tebow, I'd go Tebow every time.

why....?

[tallguy]

Seneca Wallace can at least play a little bit.  Tebow can't.  He will not get a quarterback job in the NFL.  (Unless Belichick wants to give it another shot some time.  I doubt any other team will.) 

[nalto]

Eh. I've never been to high on Wallace, even when he was with the Hawks. Great athlete, but not a QB. Same can be said for Tebow.

I suppose the real reason I'd go for Tebow is he's got Jesus on his side, and that's never a bad thing

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...I think we could use him... our QB roster's been too shallow for too long...

[Wisconsin Beth]

wallace is saying the right things about coming in and being a backup. 

[nalto]

Sept 4, 2013 12:28:32 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

wallace is saying the right things about coming in and being a backup. 

They usually do when they realize that's the best they're gonna get.

[Wisconsin Beth]

True.  And it's not like Green Bay is going to have a quarterback competition for starter right now.