kept woman

[kinetickid]

Jan 8, 2011 0:05:00 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

A woman can claim SS on their ex husband too.

A man can collect SS on his former wife, too.

Jan 8, 2011 0:05:00 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

BTW, I'm glad to see you over here.

It's good to see you, too! Isn't this place fun???

[Deleted]

Jan 8, 2011 0:05:00 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Not really. The courts treat the women much better than men. The woman can easily get more than 50pc of the assets and alimony in most cases [1 yr for 3yrs of marriage in PA, for example].

I personally know 3 women who ended up paying alimony to ex-husbands. I was nearly the 4th. My lawyer said that many judges, having seen men burdened by alimony, leap at the chance to make a woman pay it. (In my case, my Ex was alcoholic and abusive and had been unemployed for 5 years despite being a brilliant inorganic chemist.)

And, for every celebrity case where the ex-wife collects oodles of money and lives the lifestyle to which she's become accustomed, there are ex-spouses who leave town and/or work off the books and never pay a dime. Bad gamble to assume you can collect it. And if you don't get a job to add to whatever % of the assets you got, you'll outlive them unless you collected multi-millions.

[zibazinski]

I've never been a "kept woman" but I suppose I could be considered one now. I still pay for all my own expenses and I buy the food but DF pays for everything else. But I had to move, leave my friends and children (even though they are adults) and start a whole new life. He wants to live a way that is unaffordable to me but not to him so in my mind that's "on him." I keep the house clean, meals ready, and take care of 4 spoiled rotten cats of which 2 are mine. I also go anywhere with him whenever he wants me to. That is what he wants and so far, I'm okay with it. If I get to a point that I am not then I'll make changes to it. I would have liked to have depended on someone while I was raising my childrem, just didn't work out that way.

[Deleted]

Jan 8, 2011 9:11:46 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I've never been a "kept woman" but I suppose I could be considered one now. I still pay for all my own expenses and I buy the food but DF pays for everything else. But I had to move, leave my friends and children (even though they are adults) and start a whole new life. He wants to live a way that is unaffordable to me but not to him so in my mind that's "on him." I keep the house clean, meals ready, and take care of 4 spoiled rotten cats of which 2 are mine. I also go anywhere with him whenever he wants me to.

See that makes sense to me. He gets a whole lot out of that arrangement so I don't see any problem.

[Poppet]

Of course, this is the argument in favor of diverse investments. If a non-working woman doesn't diversify her "portfolio," if she doesn't have her own savings, retirement plan, social security credits, and ability to earn her own money--even if she doesn't use that ability currently--then she's COMPLETELY dependent on her man, which puts her at high risk for significant financial loss.

Agreed

[zibazinski]

He doesn't either and although he says he'd be "okay" with me working, I know he really doesn't mean it. I'm sick of volunteering as those places start to take advantage of you and try to guilt you into more and more unpaid work. I'm sticking with Habitat and Heifer. But it isn't enough to keep me busy but a job would be too much. Bit of a quandary.

[formerexpat]

I personally know 3 women who ended up paying alimony to ex-husbands. I was nearly the 4th. My lawyer said that many judges, having seen men burdened by alimony, leap at the chance to make a woman pay it. (In my case, my Ex was alcoholic and abusive and had been unemployed for 5 years despite being a brilliant inorganic chemist.)

[/size]

Well, sure when we're talking about a situation where the woman makes more than the man but the quote where I made my statement specifically referenced "non-working women". I don't think these women would owe the men alimony.

Non-working women can take their men to the cleaners if they are spiteful. To your point about the man skipping out - that is the non-working woman's risk; make sure you protect against unethical and/or immoral behavior by your husband. Not working isn't necessarily the risk if you adequately protect against it.

My wife has the copy of our financial model with all of our account detail [for back up since mine is on a protected USB and in case something happens to me, she'll have access to all the necessary information]. I don't think there would be much I could pull over on her if we were to divorce.

Most of the post I quoted was incorrect. Half of our savings is my wife's. We contributed to her Roth each year before we were ineligible. Half of my 401k would be hers in a divorce [or the equivalent asset base, depending on how we split the assets].

People seem to be too caught up on the notion that because one person earns it outside of the home while the other does not, that it is the one persons money rather than both of their money.

Do people think like this in two income households where incomes are disproportionate as well? If not, why? Clearly one person isn't pulling their weight and most of their income would be eaten up by living expenses, therefore making all savings the possession of the breadwinner.

This line of thinking is just way too foreign to me.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

I'm a stay-at-home wife, so I guess by the definitions of some people, I'm a "kept woman." Personally, that's not a term I'd use to describe my situation ... I prefer Stay-at-home wife, happy housewife, or homemaker. In fact, I prefer all of these labels to the one I used to have: "trial attorney."

Yes, we live on my wonderful's DH military pay. And we're debt free. The house? I paid it off when I quit working in 2005. Am I dependent on my wonderful DH? Yes I am. I am dependent on his love, his leadership, his presence, his sense of humor, and his generosity. Happily dependent, actually.

It works for us. It probably wouldn't work for most people.

[greyscience5]

The notion of "security" or "dependence" is interesting. There is no security in life. Relying on yourself is great but no man is an island. You can become ill, disabled, etc. There are lots of life circumstances in which you are "dependent". You cannot take out your own gallbladder can you? We are all interdependent. And, the nature of childbirth, childbearing is such that it requires interdependence and trust. So, yeah, you might be "taking a chance" if you make choices in life to promote your family in a certain direction. You sometimes have to take chances in life to move ahead.


I totally understand and agree with what you are saying. However, when I think of a kept woman, I think of someone who opted out of having any type of a career or job and is blindly relying on someone else- especially without any significant contribution to the relationship such as being a SAHM. I think great mothers are extremely difficult to replace, while trophy wives are usually a dime a dozen. I think it's unfortunate that great partnerships are sometimes underrated in our society for the reasons that you mentioned.

[greyscience5]

also @ Snerdely Snicklefritz- I sometimes feel regretful that my parents discouraged marriage for me so much. Although they have been married for over 25 years, they always emphasized that my career and education should be more important than having a relationship, which I think somewhat makes sense in early age. Now I am 25 , though, and still feel that it will be a long time before I would feel comfortable telling them that I am engaged or getting married. I do not think I am ready to be married yet, but a lot of my friends have already taken the plunge and I don't think it's unreasonable.

[cronewitch]

I knew a kept women once, she was a beautiful young woman I worked with. We were friends even after the job ended. When she was let go she hooked up with a client that was twice her age and wealthy. This was 1989 when cell phones were expensive. She used his cell phone, drove his car and sent lots of clothes to the dry cleaners. He bought her a small business but it required cold calling to get customers and she wouldn't do it. She spent a lot of time and money on her looks but he got fed up with her and started hitting her. She moved to another state were her dad was and got a job. Looks really aren't enough for most men. Even a SAHW should clean and cook, save money on shopping and pick out gifts for him to send his mom.

I had a friend that lived in Germany in studio apartment that came here a few months a year. Her boyfriend drove trucks from where they were built to where they were wanted then flew home. At least she kept his house, drove him home from the airport and wrapped and picked out gifts for his grand kids. He used his frequent flier miles to take her on vacations and bring her here and paid for the entire cost of keeping a home and car and food for them both she was a tourist so couldn't work here anyhow. He got cancer and she refused to sleep with him saying everyone knows you don't sleep with a cancer person, I lost track of her then I think she went home again.

[bimetalaupt]

Jan 9, 2011 1:04:45 GMT -5 greyscience5 said:

The notion of "security" or "dependence" is interesting. There is no security in life. Relying on yourself is great but no man is an island. You can become ill, disabled, etc. There are lots of life circumstances in which you are "dependent". You cannot take out your own gallbladder can you? We are all interdependent. And, the nature of childbirth, childbearing is such that it requires interdependence and trust. So, yeah, you might be "taking a chance" if you make choices in life to promote your family in a certain direction. You sometimes have to take chances in life to move ahead.


I totally understand and agree with what you are saying. However, when I think of a kept woman, I think of someone who opted out of having any type of a career or job and is blindly relying on someone else- especially without any significant contribution to the relationship such as being a SAHM. I think great mothers are extremely difficult to replace, while trophy wives are usually a dime a dozen. I think it's unfortunate that great partnerships are sometimes underrated in our society for the reasons that you mentioned.

GS5,
It is all about planning and careful study as to where the future is. Things like being well insured and having a reasonable cash backstop for the family in case you lose your partner is all about good financial planning.

My late wife was the best partner I had. Funny thing was how many Girls would be over at our house when school let out.. All the other Mothers worked out of the home so the whole group came to our house after school.
The same group of boys and girls came over from Grade school, JHS , and high school and College. We had a great large Rec room in the back with an ice box full of pop and my wife always had fresh cookies ready at the right time.. Foot ball was the in thing and our only son had always made first String Line-man.

When she passed on at the age of 39 the church was standing room only. Everyone on the block was their. Ladies guild and must of the friends we had developed over the years. I had backed up my Fancy insurance with insurance on her thinking it would never be used.

I may not be the island but I worked hard at being a good dad. The thing that hurt the most was being at a party alone.We used to thorough the best parties and we always had a plan for the future.

Just a thought,
Bi Metal Au Pt

[so1970]

I think it is. Why did your ex marry her? Why should he take care of someone else's kids? Doesn't that make him bitter?[/quote] why would it make him bitter to support the kids that came with the woman he took to be his wife? did he not know she had kids? its a package deal .

[zibazinski]

Most women I know with kids still at home married so they could stay at home or at the very least have some financial and other help. I thought about it myself from time to time but realized I purposely dated men that I would never marry because I truly wasn't ready to trust again. When I was ready, along came DF. I had briefly been even engaged before but down deep knew it wasn't right and ended it.

[Deleted]

A couple of examples of what can happen when your "financial plan" is finding a man with a good income:

1. In 1978, about a year after my grandmother died, Grandpa remarried. In fairness, they seemed to have a happy marriage- but every time a CD in Grandpa's name came up for redemption, the $$ got moved to her savings account. He bought her jewelry that he never would have bought my grandmother, and Grandma loved jewelry. I try not to get my mother started on this subject- she's still bitter about how the second wife got everything and after she died, Grandpa had to move into the "Health Center" of the retirement community (a euphemism for the nursing home section) because he didn't have enough savings left to pay $10K/month for 24/7 in-home attendants he needed as he got older and more frail. Mom later told me that when Step-Grandma's first husband died, her adult kids told her she wouldn't have the income to live decently and she'd better find herself a new husband with money. Can you imagine being a 70+ year old woman and having to snare a man in a hurry? Not for me, thanks.

2. A woman at DH's office was employed but she had a "friend" named Henry. Henry paid the rent on her condo, the lease on her Lexis, and took her shopping for clothes that were beyond the average woman's budget. They had a legal agreement drawn up in which she waived any right to any of his money. I'd say the woman was in her early 40s and Henry was around 70. Eventually she quit her job and moved to FL with him. As his health deteriorated, she became more of a caregiver and I think the family did alter the financial arrangements in recognition that she was acting as caregiver- but I'm sure Henry is dead now and she's going to be casting about for another old guy to support her. She's not getting any younger, of course, and she has lots of competition.

I'm really glad that if I outlive DH (likely given the 15-year age difference and his polycythemia), I won't need to find a man to support me. My problem will be sorting out out the male gold-diggers, but I'd rather have that problem.

[lurkyberk]

I don't know about being "kept" but I know I kinda feel trapped. I've worked full time my whole adult life. My dh does too. No kids. He makes a whole lot more than I do, so his check pays most of the bills while I pay about 2 or 3 smaller bills. We have a 401k under his name from his job. I don't have one for myself, but I am working on that. If I were to leave him,(or vise versa) there is no way I could support myself comfortably without working a second job. (Hence the "trapped" feeling.) Just my two cents.

[zibazinski]

That IS scary.

[Deleted]

One of my former hiking buddies used to tease me about being a "kept" woman. And in a way he's kind of right. No kids and I don't have to work outside the home. I had a very nice decent paying job in the SF Bay Area. 8.5 years ago DH was advised that he needed to take a transfer to AZ or start looking for another job. The transfer offer wasn't great and we were fully prepared for him to quit his job and for me to be the breadwinner for a while. Finally they sweetened the offer enough for us to make the move.

We bought a house we really liked 10mi from DH's work. I lucked out and landed a part time consulting gig back in the Bay Area (where my commute expenses were paid, of course). When that ended we both agreed it made no sense for me to commute an hour each way for a job that only paid 60% of my old salary. By that time we had bought a 4th property and DH's salary had increased again.

Two years later and my mother gets diagnosed with terminal cancer and dies a short time later. I cared for her during that time and then after her death spent several months settling her estate. Now we are up to 5 properties. A year and a half later DH either needs to relocate to Germany or he's out of a job. We take the offer and now we're halfway through the assignment in Germany. I still take care of the properties and the other part of my "job" is to plan trips to take advantage of our time in Europe.

So I could get a job while I'm here but we both agree that my "job" is to manage the properties. The day to day stuff includes tenant and vendor correspondence and bookkeepin. Last year that meant 6 weeks in the States; renting out 1 property, refinishing decks on 2, replacing some windows, a water heater and some general clean up and painting. I expect pretty much the same drill this summer as last year.

[thyme4change]

My friend was a SAHM, but I don't consider her "kept" as she did everything around the house and with the kids. She also managed their rental properties. She really wanted to get a job, and got one teaching pre-school, and they always joke about what a pay cut it was for them. I think they earn more on the rentals than they do from her paycheck.

[pushingit]

Jan 9, 2011 1:04:45 GMT -5 greyscience5 said:

when I think of a kept woman, I think of someone who opted out of having any type of a career or job and is blindly relying on someone else- especially without any significant contribution to the relationship such as being a SAHM.

Really, when I think of "kept women," I think of the Mistress that that the married rich man keeps on the side. He pays her living expenses and she's available for sex, ego stroking and whatever else he wants.

I've never considered a married woman, with or without kids at home to be "kept." Supported, yes, but "kept" does have a certain connotation to it.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"tometrader-lets not forget.....................no credit history!":::...

I thought that the loophole of "inheriting credit history" was preserved for a spouse in the 2008 re-write.

[Deleted]

Jan 10, 2011 13:07:40 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"tometrader-lets not forget.....................no credit history!":::...

I thought that the loophole of "inheriting credit history" was preserved for a spouse in the 2008 re-write.

We bought our duplex when I was not working but since I was pulling the down payment out of my IRA I am on the loan so even a nonworking spouse could have a credit history from that alone. Also, my credit cards actually increased my personal cc limits while I was not working.

[jarhead1976]

Take Hugh Hefner and Crystal Harris... If he is paying you know damn well she is putting out. That's a kept woman IMO

[jarhead1976]

Non working wife /with kids does more than her share to support family. To me that is very Honorable and not a kept woman!

[yhw]

I equate a kept woman to a trophy wife. Once you stop being a "trophy" you stop being a "wife".

[bean29]

I find the comments here very interesting. I think there are "Kept Women" and something that would be better described as something like a stay at home spouse (domestic manager) type of partner.

I have always worked throughout our entire 18 year marriage. In addition I co-manage two rental properties DH and I own and one my in-laws own with my DH. I also do Payroll for his business and the taxes and hold several certifications/licenses important to his business.

I increasingly feel I should give up my employment and manage the day-to-day household and business of my family. I won't get to be a stay at home Mom though ... I would just be more involved in DH's business or possibly DH will get me to start a sister business to his.

I have a very hard time with the concept of being dependent on his income, but marital property does give me a 50% share of his business which was built entirely within our marriage.

Interestingly I think my husband originally intended to get married, have a stay at home wife and lots of kids. He got a wife committed to the idea of a financial "partnership" and two kids. He occasionally tells me that he had advised clients that their wives need to get a job.

[pushingit]

Jan 10, 2011 14:56:02 GMT -5 @insurancegal said:

Comment made on the VH1 program 'Cut Off':
"It costs $70,000 a year to keep me looking like this." She was a 26-year-old "law student" whose Daddy is a plastic surgeon. Blegh.

Damn, and I thought the 3 hours and $175 for a cut, color, high and low lites was too must to spend. (in both the time and money department!)

[swamp]

Jan 10, 2011 14:56:02 GMT -5 @insurancegal said:

Comment made on the VH1 program 'Cut Off':
"It costs $70,000 a year to keep me looking like this." She was a 26-year-old "law student" whose Daddy is a plastic surgeon. Blegh.

If she's 26 and needs to spend that much to look good, she must be naturally ugly and need lots of work.

[thyme4change]

I don't know what she looked like "before" but she looked horrible on that show. If I hadn't been exposed to so many surgically enhanced people on television, I would have assumed that this gal had been in some sort of accident and had her face reconstructed. It wasn't even really shaped like a face anymore. At least not a normal face.

[thyme4change]

www.vh1.com/shows/youre_cut_off/season_1/cast_member.jhtml?personalityId=14147