Loosing custody over an obese child

[muttleynfelix]

www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/weekinreview/19belkin.html

Since we are talking about kidnappers and risks to our children. This is a great read. Maybe give some people some perspective.

[michelyn8]

Jul 14, 2011 12:06:06 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

DS threw a fit in the parking lot I had to fight to get him into his car seat & then I could only buckle the arm buckles because he was fighting so much. I finally just sat in my seat & told him we couldn't drive until he calmed down & was fully buckled. That was a fun 10 minutes of listening to him scream.

Been there & handled it the same way.

For clothes issues, I've been saying "No shirt, no shoes, no service" to my kids for as long as I can remember. So when we do have to go somewhere, they know they've got to have clothes on. And I've never made a big deal out of what clothes they've got on, as long as they're covered.

I must have been an absolutely horrible parent because on the rare occasion mine acted that way in public, I hauled them to the car and told them if they didn't shut up I'd give them something to cry about (which usually turned out to be a swat on the leg). I had and still have no tolerance for that kind of behavior from a child of any age.

Angel, now is the time to nip it in the bud or you will always have problems with tantrums. One thing I found that helped was to let my children know ahead of time what I expected from them before we left the house. And I didn't say "ok" after I told them, I made statements and then asked them "do you understand". It will be more difficult with a toddler because they won't always understand but over time it will click.

But as hard nosed and cruel as I may sound, I'm really not. With my kids I rarely told them to do something. If I wanted something done like putting a toy back in their room they left in the living room, I'd ask them to do it and then say thank you when they did. If I had to ask more than 2x, then I got stern about it. I started with the please and thank you's when they were very young (ie: can I have your toot toot while you eat? and then said thank you when I took it from them).

I never had an issue with clothes. I guess it was just understood that you will wear what Mom says to wear. But again, I often would ask what they wanted to wear. I only put my foot down when what they wanted was inappropriate for where we were going or was dirty. But they were always dressed - tops and bottoms.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

and Yet we have over four million kids playing football. Moms will take their 7-year-olds in the car, in a state-of-the-art car seat, to go and play football

This made me laugh.

[telephus44]

Angel, my DS is 4-1/2 and has had a few choice meltdowns. He also has autism, which makes it hard for him to focus his attention sometime (like paying attention or following directions). What I found was that we did time-outs starting around age 2 where he would sit in our lap and we'd physically hold his arms and legs, no matter how hard he tried to thrash - it took a few years, but at this point when he's starting to pitch a fit, I can usually stop it by just asking "Do you want a timeout?"

The key is that he's physically restrained during the timeout - not just sit in a chair. Not sure if that would work for you or not, and it took us at least a year, but wanted to pass it on.

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2011 12:47:09 GMT -5 @gin1984 said:

Jul 14, 2011 12:01:01 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

They just had an article in the Buffalo News not too long ago stating that all of the chain grocery stores in the city closed, so people have to either take the bus into the suburbs or shop at convenience stores (which are expensive and have limited amounts of fruits & veggies (if any)). So I'd say that poverty plays into it.

I live in buffalo and that is not true. Hell the hub for most buses is one of the universities (UB south) and there is a grocery store right across the street from the university.

Forgive me, the article I mentioned was from last year:
www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article4195.ece

[Angel!]

I'll have to give timeouts a try again. I tried them when he was younger & they didn't seem that effective. I learned taking away toys was extremely effective though. He wasn't listening while riding his bike one day & he had it taken away for a week. Everytime he saw the bike sitting in the garage he would say "I in twouble" in an adorable little kid voice. Since then, at least until recently just the threat of having a toy taken away has been enough to get him in line. But, suddenly he is having this massive tantrums - I think there have been 3 in the last 2 weeks & I have no idea how to handle it.

I don't think spankings or smacks are going to be a good punishment tool for me. I did try to smack his butt once when I was mad & apparently I didn't hit it hard enough & he laughed, completely ineffective. I think I subconsciously hold back too much & it won't be an effective punishment or threat. I suppose I could work on this, but then do I want to work on being able to smack my children harder .

[Firebird]

I think I subconsciously hold back too much & it won't be an effective punishment or threat. I suppose I could work on this, but then do I want to work on being able to smack my children harder

Please don't. I'll probably get flamed for this but I hate spanking. I think that inflicting physical pain and fear (and honestly, a spanking is basically pointless if it isn't hard enough to cause at least a little of both) on children is a horrible method for getting them to behave. It can be horribly damaging even if you don't do it abusively.

[Angel!]

Jul 14, 2011 16:44:44 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I think I subconsciously hold back too much & it won't be an effective punishment or threat. I suppose I could work on this, but then do I want to work on being able to smack my children harder

Please don't. I'll probably get flamed for this but I hate spanking. I think that inflicting physical pain and fear (and honestly, a spanking is basically pointless if it isn't hard enough to cause at least a little of both) on children is a horrible method for getting them to behave. It can be horribly damaging even if you don't do it abusively.

Sorry, that was kind of joke. I don't intend on actually working on my skill as a spanker. I am not totally anti-spanking, but definitely think there are limits as to when it is appropriate. I could see using spanking when a child not listening/not following rules led to them endangering themselves or someone else. For example, I could see possibly giving DS a smack if he ran out into the street in front of a car even though he knows better than to run into the street.

ETA - reading this I feel I sounded harsh, perhaps smack is not the right word. Someone used the word swat earlier & maybe that is a better word to indicate what I mean. I don't mean anything that is going to really injure the child, but something that stings a little & will get their attention.

[Firebird]

I get it and that's a totally legitimate viewpoint. I learned long ago that I cannot be rational on this subject, so I'd rather not even get into it but it's nothing against you at all.

[Angel!]

Fair enough, nothing wrong with the anti-spanking viewpoint either. It doens't really matter because as I pointed out I am an ineffective spanker, so I don't see that as being a big method of punishment for me. The last part was really more of a joke, but maybe didn't come across that way.

[Firebird]

Probably it did, I just have a really lousy sense of humor when it comes to corporal punishment. It's pretty triggering for me.

[zibazinski]

I had 3 kindergartners that outweighed me. These kids were 5 and 6 years old and weighed over 100 pounds.

[sil]

Hi Angel,

I learned another approach to tantrums in our parenting classes for DS, who also has autism. We're applying the same approach to our neurotypical daughter, and it's been effective.

You've gotta figure out what's motivating the negative behaviors, and then the idea is that you don't want to reinforce the tantrum behavior by giving in to the child. On the surface, that seems obvious. Of course if your kid pitches a fit because he wants ice cream, you do not give him the ice cream. Otherwise, you are teaching him that a good way to get ice cream is to throw a tantrum.

But it isnt so obvious when the behavior is attention-seeking, which is often the case with our kids. If their goal is to get our attention by throwing a tantrum, we would be reinforcing the behavior by engaging in a discussion, or by repeatedly trying to get them to sit in time out. Even spanking can reinforce attention-seeking tantrums. Instead, the most effective way we've found to stop attention-seeking tantrums is to completely ignore them. They want to get our attention by yelling, throwing toys, kicking their feet on the ground - so we do not pay any attention when they throw tantrums (assuming they arent in a position to get hurt/hurt someone else) Once the bad behavior stops, they get praise, snuggles - positive reinforcement

Once DS turned 3, we were able to start teaching him to use words to let us know he wanted our attention. Sometimes it was tough to drop whatever we were doing to give him attention when he asked politely, but that reinforcement is what really stopped the behavior-seeking tantrums. We also reduced frustration tantrums by looking for signs of frustration and asking DS if he needed a break or if he wanted some time to himself (time out as a way to calm down, not as punishment) Now when he's upset, he often just goes to his room instead of tantruming.

DD is only 18 months. Her response to our ignoring tantrums is actually really funny. When she tantrums, I'll walk to the next room (close enough to monitor, but somewhere she cannot see me) She gets up quietly and looks for me. Once she finds me, she tosses herself back on the floor and tantrums again. We repeat until she calms down. The tantrums are already happening less often, so I think the approach is working with DD too.

It's tougher when youre in public, of course. I've taken DS to the car when he tantrums and put him in his car seat, then closed the door and sat on the trunk until he calmed down

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2011 15:50:17 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

Jul 14, 2011 12:47:09 GMT -5 @gin1984 said:

I live in buffalo and that is not true. Hell the hub for most buses is one of the universities (UB south) and there is a grocery store right across the street from the university.

Forgive me, the article I mentioned was from last year:
www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article4195.ece

And the grocery store has been there for more than a year. I have been here for about 2 years and it has been here for much longer. Their are fewer farmers markets but most of them are still bus accessible. And many of the grocery stores are bus accessible as well. I think the program is good but really we do have a good amount of grocery stores that are convenient to those without cars because of the 3 universities we have here.

[Angel!]

Jul 15, 2011 11:39:42 GMT -5 sil said:

DD is only 18 months. Her response to our ignoring tantrums is actually really funny. When she tantrums, I'll walk to the next room (close enough to monitor, but somewhere she cannot see me) She gets up quietly and looks for me. Once she finds me, she tosses herself back on the floor and tantrums again. We repeat until she calms down. The tantrums are already happening less often, so I think the approach is working with DD too.

That is hysterical. Thanks for the advice. With DS the major tantrums have been in response to not wanting to do something - not wanting to hold my hand, not wanting to go to bed, not wanting to go in the house & then when I make him do it he ends up in hysterics.

Perhaps I need to work on the way I communicate with him when telling him he has to do these things. For example, I have discovered it is far more successful to ask him to check the clock to see if it is bedtime rather than just telling him it is bedtime.

[sil]

Transitions are really tough on DS. So much so, that we try to keep a predictable pattern of events at home as much as possible, so he knows what to expect and when.

One little gem we picked up from parenting classes was to instruct DS to ask for "more time please" if he isnt ready to transition. We then set a timer for one minute, and try again. We used to repeat this for up to 5 minutes, then we gradually scaled back, letting him know when it was his "last minute" I really don't know why, but he rarely tantrumed after his "last minute" I sometimes even brought that stupid kitchen timer with me to the playground Kind of like your method of having your son check the clock for bedtime, this almost makes the clock/timer the "bad guy" rather than you.

Holding hands is a harder one, because that's a safety issue and its not subject to negotiation. Only choice I'd offer DS was "either hold my hand, or Im going to carry you." Then again, DS is skinny so I could carry him even when he was kicking and screaming. I used to lose sleep over what we'd do once he got too big to carry, but he better understands why and when he has to hold our hand now.

[giramomma]

angel said:

Perhaps I need to work on the way I communicate with him when telling him he has to do these things. For example, I have discovered it is far more successful to ask him to check the clock to see if it is bedtime rather than just telling him it is bedtime.

I also second the transitions. Also having a routine helps a lot. We also have had the same bedtime routine for 6 years now. A half hour of tv, pjs, brush teeth, story time and bed time.

We only deviate from this routine when something big happens, like when I was in the hospital giving birth to our second child. Otherwise, even when we are traveling on vacation, we use the same routine.

We also gave choices, and all of the choices were acceptable to us. For example, for lunch, we'd say "Do you want an apple or some carrots?" or "I've picked out three outfits, you chose the one you wish to wear today." "OK, it's time to pick up your toys. Would you like to pick up the little people set or the lincoln logs first?"

We are also big on warnings "You can play for 10 more minutes..Five minutes..one more minute,,"

We found, for our children, this helped them feel like they were more in control, and then actually more willing to comply when things were NOT negotiable, like safety issues.

[zibazinski]

As a GAL, it was my job to look in the frig and the cupboards when I did my monthly visit. If there'd been crap for food in there, I'd have reported it to the social worker and then the judge. IF my client had been fat, I'd have noticed it. As it was she had lost a lot of weight in what I felt was a short period of time. I reported that as well. Turns out her meds had been changed and it caused her weight loss. Yes, children can be removed from foster care for being overweight with no medical REASON FOR BEING SO.