Loosing custody over an obese child

[whoisjohngalt]

news.yahoo.com/parents-lose-custody-super-obese-kids-200342454.html

I haven't decided how I feel about this yet, but this is the part that really irked me:

But University of Pennsylvania bioethicist Art Caplan said he worries that the debate risks putting too much blame on parents. Obese children are victims of advertising, marketing, peer pressure and bullying — things a parent can't control, he said.

Am I really ignorant about child-rearing?? Do parents really have no control over those things??

thoughts?

Lena

[midjd]

Parents have control over what the child eats at home, but cannot control what they eat at school (unless they home-school) and cannot control the biological factors that can lead to weight disorders. Many parents themselves have never had examples of healthy food choices/intake and it's the blind leading the blind. I do think the parents share culpability, but there are often other factors at play.

My brother, sister and I were all raised eating the same amounts of the same foods. My sister and I were skinny kids and are still pretty small. My brother was very chunky (he's since slimmed down, but it took some conscious effort). I remember my mom making disparaging comments about parents of overweight children before my brother was born... but she stopped soon after Same in DH's family - his mom and older sister can eat anything and are skinny as rails, DH and his younger sister breathe in donut fumes and gain weight.

So I guess my answer is that it isn't always 100% within the parent's control, though it is usually mostly within the parent's control. Our foster system is so overloaded already, I don't think removal from the home is the answer in most of these cases, though many parents could probably benefit from a few nutrition classes.

[Malarky]

Premature posting.


I'll post again when I finish my thoughts.

[Deleted]

There is a major difference between chunky and obese. If you are obese you are setting yourself up for medical problems. I have no problem with CPS, if they have time (which I am not sure they do) stopping in a home and seeing what the kids are being fed. If it is all junk/fast food then maybe the kids need help not from their parents or the parent need training.

[giramomma]

Yes, the parents can control advertising and marketing, and teach their kids how to deal with peer pressure.

I, however, cannot control other kids who are bullies, since I'm not their parent.

Once I listened to a mother complain that her 4 year old was watching Hannah Montana. And then the mother quite literally said, "Well, it's not like I can STOP bringing Hannah Montana into our household." I thought WTF? You can. It's called getting basic cable or stopping cable.

[Deleted]

Unless it's an extreme case of genetics the parents have control. Even if the kids are exposed to marketing it's the parents who provide the money to purchase the junk food.

DS was in the 100th percentile as an infant. Now that we're done bf'ing he's around 50% for his height. He doesn't eat a super-controlled diet but I do keep him very active. We both walk around the zoo - I don't push him in a stroller all the time.

[Malarky]

I am so screwed if SIL or my niece ever see this, but...

My 20 yo niece has been clinically obese since she was two. Part of it is genetics but it's mostly environmental. That family has the worst eating habits of any I've ever encountered. SIL has an incredible ability to deny what's right in front of her.

Think Doxie with an eating disorder. How many excuses can you come up with for why this isn't your fault and there's nothing you can do?
When DN was younger, I confronted SIL frequently over DN's weight. My kids were definitely raised knowing a lot about nutrition because it was always a topic of conversation. This is why we need to eat vegetables. This is why we don't drink soda, except on special occasions. This is what a serving looks like.

DN has had some health problems related to her obesity. It breaks my heart when she posts on FB that her back hurts, or her knees hurt. It's always blamed on the mattress, or the shoes or something else. Never any personal responsibility. SIL has dragged her to Dr. after Dr. looking for an answer as to why DN is uncomfortable in her own skin. Umm...I'm not a good guesser...she weighs somewhere between 300 and 500 pounds? This could be a problem? I really don't know what she weighs.

There are also other problems in that family, but the most glaring and obvious is obesity. BIL is obese, SIL is overweight, DN is obese and DN2 is overweight.

I actually thought about reporting child abuse to DSS when DN was younger but was unable to bring myself to do it. Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't. Would being raised in a foster family really have helped? DN is old enough now that only she can do anything about her weight, and it doesn't appear that she is inclined to.


Fast forward a couple of years and now my kids are teens and I have so much less control over what they eat than I used to. I'd much rather they have a cup of coffee than a Mountain Dew. They aren't drinking coffee. Out in the big, bad world, they encounter ridiculously large serving sizes and prepared crap that they never saw at home when they were young.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

The article does state "severely obese" and talks about the child who is age 12 and weighs 400 pounds. That is neglect, to me, on the parents' part. I can certainly control what my children eat at home and what I purchase to have in the home and when we're out to eat. I also have tried desparately to instill what good food choices are. We also exercise daily as a family. Chunkiness is one thing. Overweight is another and happens for different genetic, health, and environmental reasons. But severely obese is just not acceptable.

[whoisjohngalt]

My oldest is 3 and I am finding that it is hard to find the right balance of limiting certain food options, but at the same time not creating the "forbidden fruit".

My DH's side of the family has huge weight issues, so I am very worried that my kids will have issues too. And I have no clue how to deal with it.

Lena

[Elizabeth]

It's interesting you should post this today, Lena. I was looking at some pics from my company's take your child to work day in a different branch, and I noticed how many of these kids are obese. I thought, why oh why aren't these people doing something to help them? Not only is it unhealthy and can cause medical problems, but the ridicule is enoug to scar these kids for life. I know from first hand experience because I was a heavy kid. It takes a very conscious effort for me every single day to stay slim. I have hypothyroidism so I have a tendency toward chunky if I don't watch it.

I can see how this happens though. Take me and my husband for example. He is heavy and can be pretty lazy when it comes to cooking and eating. If it were up to him, we would all eat fast food every day. I normally pack the kids lunches because when he does it's processed crap. I make an effort to pack a fruit, vegetable, dairy, and protein every day. Yes, I do let the girls have unhealthy snacks, but I limit them. Also my kids love to run and play outside so I figure they burn it off. It does take effort to wash and chop fresh produce, but it's well worth it. I make an effort to tell my girls which nutrients they are eating at every meal. I hope it saves them from the ridicule and teasing I experienced when I was an overweight child, and more importantly, health issues later down the line.

[april47]

There are too many variables in the causes of obesity for this to work. There is also the cut off between what is chunky and obese. Who's going to make these guidelines? You can't get two doctors or so called "experts" to agree on a lot of things. Who's going to inforce this? Taking the child out of the home for such a reason is complicated especially when there are so many children out there who remain in dangerous homes for other reasons. CPS already is too overburdened, understaffed, and underfunded.

[Deleted]

My Mom is a big girl. Very big. I guess my brother and I got our Dad's genes because we're both slim. It probablly helps that I don't eat junk food. I don't eat cookies, cake, ice cream or potato chips. So I don't buy it. Of course my children acquired a taste for junk food because they aren't always home. It gets more difficult to control what they eat as they get older. But I don't keep much junk food around the house, they grew up playing outside and for whatever reason, they're both slim.

If one of them had been overweight, I would've tried to do something about it. Knowing how my Mom's weight plays a part in her health problems has made me aware of the dangers of obesity.

Several years ago I watched a talk show featuring morbidly obese children. Some of them were only 4 or 5 years old. They showed the children stuffing down enormous amounts of junk food and I wanted to reach through the tv and slap their parents when they whined about how they couldn't stop the kids from eating so much junk. I remember thinking that it bordered on abuse, neglect or SOMETHING bad to allow a child to eat the way those kids were eating. But I'm not sure what exactly I think should be done about it.

[cronewitch]

Some children are born big eaters but parents have some control and total control of infants and toddlers.

My nephew was born normal weight but loved food his mother asked his doctor if he was too heavy and the doctor said no. She changed doctors when he was 10 months and the new one said what have you been feeding that kid. He went on a non fat milk and water diet and wasn't allowed to gain more until he was taller. His mother controlled his portions but he could eat a whole big mack and milkshake and fries at 4. When he started 2nd grade his doctor said he was 6 pounds too heavy so needed to lose 6 that year. She spent the year refusing him food when he said he was hungry. She let my parents have him sometimes and they over fed him so she said if he came back heavier again they couldn't have him. He lost only 2lbs in a year of dieting but got 4 inches taller. She forced him to sign up for activities like swim lessons or baseball even if he rather read a book. She packed his lunches and controlled his food as long as he was a kid. He obeyed even if she was out of town in college she would call home and ask what they cooked and tell them they need to have a veggie and potatoes didn't count. His sister was naturally thin but didn't eat vegetables so was limited on treats too. Parents have to sometimes be the bad guy. If she had let him eat what he wanted he would have been a 50lb 3 year old and 300lbs by teen years. This way he looked nice as a teen and had a normal weight until he left home. Now he is 41 and about 400lbs but that is on him. If he was that size as a teen his parents should be punished.

My dad decided I was too heavy my senior year and put me on a meat and veggie only diet plus school lunch. I spent my money on candy but didn't have much so lost about 25lbs that year. He ordered mom not to let me have other food too but I talked her into grapefruit and I bought orange juice with my own money. It wasn't a really balanced diet but my dad wanted me to be young and beautiful.

[973beachbum]

"Do parents really have no control over those things??"

I used to have total control over what my kids did, watched and ate. Then they turned 5.

My DD went to kindergarten. I packed her lunch and gave her .40 cents for milk. She had always had plain old skim milk. Well I asked her how she liked the milk and she said it was great because they had chocolate. I asked her what if I don't want you drinking chocolate milk and her reply was then I guess I won't tell you.

And trust me by HS there isn't even a semblance of control over what they eat. I buy lots of fresh vegetables and fruits and whole grains. I cook almost everyday from scratch healthy dinners. I pack her lunch with as nutritious food as possible. Then I clean out her back pack or pockets of her clothes and throw out all the candy wrappers and empty soda bottles.

But the worst part of this type of thing is that it presupposes that we have an excess supply of loving homes just waiting for foster kids right now, when nothing could be further from the truth.

[pig]

This is horrific. The thought that some ignorant, self righteous bureaucrat can take away your child for eating habits smacks of Nazism. I think it's absolutely disgusting.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2011 0:07:46 GMT -5 april47 said:

There are too many variables in the causes of obesity for this to work. There is also the cut off between what is chunky and obese. Who's going to make these guidelines? You can't get two doctors or so called "experts" to agree on a lot of things. Who's going to inforce this? Taking the child out of the home for such a reason is complicated especially when there are so many children out there who remain in dangerous homes for other reasons. CPS already is too overburdened, understaffed, and underfunded.

The American Medical Association already has:

Overweight = BMI 25-29.9
Obese = BMI 30.0-38.9
Morbidly Obese = BMI > 39

[pig]

Overweight = BMI 25-29.9
Obese = BMI 30.0-38.9
Morbidly Obese = BMI > 39

So according to these "guidelines" I'm morbidly obese. Baloney! The state needs to get their dirty paws off our personal lives.

[Deleted]

I think food preferances are developed when we are young. I have to watch my weight now but I don't have to fight cravings for McDonald's or things like that. It is not what I was fed when I was young and I tend to go back to the menu my parents fed me as a kid. I don't believe in denying a hungry kid food. Just make sure that it is healthy things that are available.

[Deleted]

Like most things that are controversial, this is a tough one. I see both sides. Parents who have morbidly obese kids are doing the kids a huge disservice and they are doing it knowingly and willfully. They are setting up their kids for failure. That said, I think the taking of ones kids from their parents should be a decision that is made will extreme caution. I do not think it is a good thing and I do not think that it should be done casually. Therefore, I cannot support the taking of a child from their parents for obesity.

[Deleted]

I don't think the state should get involved in this. We can't legislate that everyone in the world be our interpretation of perfect. At some point we have to accept things that don't fit our own little vision of ideal.

[Deleted]

Jul 12, 2011 21:07:40 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Once I listened to a mother complain that her 4 year old was watching Hannah Montana. And then the mother quite literally said, "Well, it's not like I can STOP bringing Hannah Montana into our household." I thought WTF? You can. It's called getting basic cable or stopping cable.

Actually, I have rabbit ears on my TV and I can watch Hannah Montana on Saturday mornings. So the mom in question can restrict screen time, but they aren't paying for that garbage.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2011 7:53:04 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

Jul 13, 2011 0:07:46 GMT -5 april47 said:

There are too many variables in the causes of obesity for this to work. There is also the cut off between what is chunky and obese. Who's going to make these guidelines? You can't get two doctors or so called "experts" to agree on a lot of things. Who's going to inforce this? Taking the child out of the home for such a reason is complicated especially when there are so many children out there who remain in dangerous homes for other reasons. CPS already is too overburdened, understaffed, and underfunded.

The American Medical Association already has:

Overweight = BMI 25-29.9
Obese = BMI 30.0-38.9
Morbidly Obese = BMI > 39

Actually, those ranges are for adults, and the BMI measurement is notoriously flawed because it doesn't account for muscle mass and body frame. Our body building friend cawaiu probably registers as overweight on this scale.

For kids, there are weight and height by age charts. Kids in the 95th percentile or higher for their age, gender and height are considered obese. Kids between the 85th and 95th percentile are considered overweight.

[pig]

And what about Skinnykids? No not the poster Shouldn't they be taken away as well? My son was in something like the 5th percentile for age/weight for years.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2011 8:22:14 GMT -5 @pig said:

And what about Skinnykids? No not the poster Shouldn't they be taken away as well? My son was in something like the 5th percentile for age/weight for years.

The doctor said I was a "failure to thrive" as a kid.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2011 8:13:26 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

The parents I know who have heavy children either don't know how to cook or just find it much easier to hand the kid a donut to eat.

This could be a function of lazy parenting, in which case - shame on them.

But since this is a money board, bear in mind that unhealthy foods cost less than healthy ones. If you areworking 1-2 low-paying, physically demanding jobs in a resource-limited urban area, it is hard to feed your family healthy and affordable foods.

There may only be fast food restaurants and convenience stores near where you live. If you have to take 2 buses to get to a real grocery store, you may go, but the time you have left to prepare that food is diminished. Cooking from scratch is cheaper, but who has time to do it?

A cheeseburger from the $1 menu may seem like an easy way to get your kids fed in that circumstance. While slightly better, if you do decide to cook from scratch, the Dave Ramsey special of beans and rice is a great way to pack on the pounds.

[midjd]

Okay, a stupid question - is the perceived problem here the effects of obesity in children, or the effects of a poor/unbalanced diet in children? Or both?

Because feeding your kids nothing but Coke and donuts is obviously very very bad for them, but if they're naturally skinny kids, how will anyone know? My father is very thin (fast metabolism) but eats extremely unhealthily and his cholesterol is 320+. He is just as susceptible to (or already has) the problems that go along with being obese - diabetes, blood clots, heart issues - as someone who actually is obese, but you certainly wouldn't know it to look at him...

[pig]

The doctor said I was a "failure to thrive" as a kid.

So nothings changed? You know what Arch it's funny as a doctor who saw our son ONCE (his regular ped was not available) said our son was failure to thrive. We ask our regular ped about it and he just lauged and said he was the epitome of healthy. Pissed my wife off something horrible she went and bitched her out and she apologized.


Midwest, I watched a documentary about the poor in Apalacia and many families there feed their babies Coke in a bottle. And it's not because they don't know any better it's because they can't afford Milk or formula.

[midjd]

Pig, I went to college in eastern KY... I have parenting stories that would curl your tail

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2011 8:24:51 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

Jul 13, 2011 8:13:26 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

The parents I know who have heavy children either don't know how to cook or just find it much easier to hand the kid a donut to eat.

This could be a function of lazy parenting, in which case - shame on them.

But since this is a money board, bear in mind that unhealthy foods cost less than healthy ones. If you areworking 1-2 low-paying, physically demanding jobs in a resource-limited urban area, it is hard to feed your family healthy and affordable foods.

There may only be fast food restaurants and convenience stores near where you live. If you have to take 2 buses to get to a real grocery store, you may go, but the time you have left to prepare that food is diminished. Cooking from scratch is cheaper, but who has time to do it?

A cheeseburger from the $1 menu may seem like an easy way to get your kids fed

Yes!!! This is a huge problem for poor families. They are looking for the most amount of calories for their dollar. Junk is cheap and it lasts longer than fresh food. And yes, if you work 2 minimum wage jobs and a total of 80 hours a week and you have three mouths to feed, I can see why they would run into problems. I think educational programs that help poor families with better food choices would go a long way.

[ontrack]

I just watched this re-run of a primetime special on Appalacia, they showed this dentist who had a mobile office in a semi-trailer. Some of these kids hadn't seen a dentist in their life and had to have permenant teeth pulled before they were teenagers. A lot of the blame fell on the fact that they drink Mountain Dew like it's water--it's also put in baby bottles. It apparently is like a mild anti-depressant. You didn't see many obese kids though, probably since they didn't get enough to eat.