Cheesy FL-Vol
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"Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -- Helen Keller
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Jan 7, 2011 2:56:29 GMT -5
I don't know what you guys are talking about. *I* am perfectly sane, it's you guys who are nuts. Sorry, I beg to differ. Anyone posting at EE is classified as nuts! (except me of course)
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Post by rick on Jan 7, 2011 7:46:35 GMT -5
Personally I think labeling children that young as bi-polar is dangerous especially when it involves giving them medication because there is no reserach into what being on those types of drugs at that age really does to a child. Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=fun&action=display&thread=1073&page=2#ixzz1ALwutnHOk, lets not vaccinate due to the believe it causes Autisum, But lets pump a 2 years old full of meds because he is acting like a 2 year old. Yeap. Makes sense to me
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Post by rick on Jan 7, 2011 7:52:13 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 7, 2011 9:42:12 GMT -5
There are risks with anything, if you decide for your child that the risk of the disease is less than the vaccination that is your right as a parent.
However *I* believe the risk of all these diseases are far more serious (including the flu, especially for my newborn) than any risk the vaccination poses. I also believe the risk of complications for vaccinations is not outweighed by teh damage that will be done to society should more and more people decide not to vaccinate.
It is already happening. Right now we can still count on the herd immunity of those still around who had said diseases and those that are vaccinated.
But it won't be long before we have a huge population of totally exposed people and it is not going to be pretty.
Right now I could not vaccinate DD and she would be pretty safe, but who is to say when she reaches her 20s that there will be enough people left with immunity?
A lot of those diseases are even nastier when you get them as adults. Personally I am not going to take the chance that there will be enough herd immunity left by the time she is an adult to protect her.
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Post by rick on Jan 7, 2011 9:57:19 GMT -5
Yeap, what Drama said
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jan 7, 2011 10:16:01 GMT -5
I've been thinking that has a lot to do with it too. Many women today are putting off having children until in their late 30's, 40's (and sometimes even their 50's). Their bodies arent' as 'healthy' and young as they were in their 20's and early 30's and the children they're having later seem to be experiencing more and more health issues.
Adults (and very young children) are also eating far more processed/fast food and chemicals today than they ever did in the past.
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Post by rick on Jan 7, 2011 10:20:59 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2011 11:03:39 GMT -5
RJ, how are you eating popcorn AND drinking coffee AND reading the paper?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2011 11:07:32 GMT -5
I've been thinking that has a lot to do with it too. Many women today are putting off having children until in their late 30's, 40's (and sometimes even their 50's). Their bodies arent' as 'healthy' and young as they were in their 20's and early 30's and the children they're having later seem to be experiencing more and more health issues. Adults (and very young children) are also eating far more processed/fast food and chemicals today than they ever did in the past. Yes, yes, and yes. Biology doesn't care that you won't be financially stable enough for a baby until your late 30s or that you want to spend your 20s and 30s sewing your wild oats. The risk of Down's Syndrome increases exponentially once the mother hits 35 and beyond. Men create new sperm all the time - women are born with all the eggs they will ever have. Also, we (Americans in particular) eat garbage, plain and simple.
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Regie
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Post by Regie on Jan 7, 2011 11:10:55 GMT -5
Techno, I noticed none of your cites is from an actual peer reviewed journal. Yes there are side effect to just about anything you take into your body. I am allergic to morphine, does that mean everyone should avoid morphine...NO. As for the risk of the illness being less than the risk of the vaccine. Sorry, a friend of my mothers had polio when she was young and I would not wish that on my worst enemy much less my child. Before you jump on the band wagon of non vaccination take a good long look at what some of the illnesses you are vaccinating for will do to your child. Then make an informed decision.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 7, 2011 11:15:10 GMT -5
Men create new sperm all the time - women are born with all the eggs they will ever have
Research is FINALLY actually looking into this. While men can produce sperm for most of their lives it does not mean it is GOOD sperm.
Men have a decline in QUALITY sperm production around the same time women start losing their fertility.
So while they are still producing sperm, they are not the stellar genetically healthy sperm they used to produce back in their teens and 20's.
Men just produce such a large AMOUNT of sperm that odds are pretty good you will still get a good swimmer fertilizing your egg, but not always.
It used to be assumed that since men can generate sperm forever it meant it was good sperm.
But like anything you make copy after copy off after awhile the copies get to be poorer and poorer in quality.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Jan 7, 2011 11:19:34 GMT -5
Techno, I noticed none of your cites is from an actual peer reviewed journal. Yes there are side effect to just about anything you take into your body. I am allergic to morphine, does that mean everyone should avoid morphine...NO. As for the risk of the illness being less than the risk of the vaccine. Sorry, a friend of my mothers had polio when she was young and I would not wish that on my worst enemy much less my child. Before you jump on the band wagon of non vaccination take a good long look at what some of the illnesses you are vaccinating for will do to your child. Then make an informed decision. I am profoundly hearing impaired as a result of the Rubella epidemic in the mid 60's, which when contracted by a pregnant woman in ( I think ) the 2nd trimester, affected the development of the fetus. There are thousands of people in their roughly mid-40's today, that are deaf, blind or retarded because no vaccine was available for this disease at the time.
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Post by rick on Jan 7, 2011 11:23:05 GMT -5
RJ, how are you eating popcorn AND drinking coffee AND reading the paper? Im that good Or its processed foods, who knows ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2011 11:23:49 GMT -5
Men create new sperm all the time - women are born with all the eggs they will ever haveResearch is FINALLY actually looking into this. While men can produce sperm for most of their lives it does not mean it is GOOD sperm. Men have a decline in QUALITY sperm production around the same time women start losing their fertility. So while they are still producing sperm, they are not the stellar genetically healthy sperm they used to produce back in their teens and 20's. Men just produce such a large AMOUNT of sperm that odds are pretty good you will still get a good swimmer fertilizing your egg, but not always. It used to be assumed that since men can generate sperm forever it meant it was good sperm. But like anything you make copy after copy off after awhile the copies get to be poorer and poorer in quality. thanks for expounding upon that, drama. It does make sense though.
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Post by rick on Jan 7, 2011 11:25:43 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 7, 2011 11:27:19 GMT -5
My mom still remembers when you were not allowed to go to the public pools for fear that you'd get polio.
Everything comes with a risk and you have to decide what risks you want to tolerate.
I DID just see on GMA yesterday that a doctor said it is NEVER too late to get vaccinated, so if a child of parents who chose not to vaccinate decides as an adult they want to, it's not too late to get them.
Hopefully at any rate. People tend to not stop and think about the reason why "oh it wasn't so bad when I got measles" is because there were quite a few people who had NATURAL immunity living.
We are running out of those people, we are also going to eventually run out of immunized people. What happened to the indians when the Pilgrims came over is what is going to happen to future generations as these diseases spread like wildfire thru a population that has never been exposed to it and has no immunity.
Eventually we'd get to the point of where enough people survive and have natural immunity again, but it won't be pretty getting there.
I read that people DH's age and my age take for granted that these diseases are gone or are mild when contracted. We don't stop to think that it is because of VACCINATIONS.
Talk to older generations and you will get quite a different story.
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Post by rick on Jan 7, 2011 11:30:17 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 7, 2011 11:36:25 GMT -5
Is that another slamMay-be. You got something to say Rick, why are you taking it so personally?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2011 11:37:02 GMT -5
Eventually we'd get to the point of where enough people survive and have natural immunity again, but it won't be pretty getting there. I don't know. With people going nuts with anti-bacterial soaps and hand sanitizers, a whole bunch of drug-resistant ailments could start popping up. JMO.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Jan 7, 2011 11:40:14 GMT -5
Eventually we'd get to the point of where enough people survive and have natural immunity again, but it won't be pretty getting there. I don't know. With people going nuts with anti-bacterial soaps and hand sanitizers, a whole bunch of drug-resistant ailments could start popping up. JMO. Look at MRSA.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 7, 2011 11:42:23 GMT -5
With people going nuts with anti-bacterial soaps and hand sanitizers, a whole bunch of drug-resistant ailments could start popping up. JMO.
It would be a LONG time, but these people would also eventually die leaving behind those that survive.
People survived the bubonic plauge after all. Still wiped out nearly 1/3 of Europe, but people lived.
Like I said it would not be pretty, but in a few generations we'd be back to having a population of naturally immune people.
Germs that kill off their hosts too quickly (like ebola) do not get the chance to spread.
Eventually measles, mumps, rubella, etc would start to become more "mild" till a good chunk of people start to survive and pass on their immunity to the herd.
We'd get there, but it would go back to being done the old fashioned way and those who are fittest survive and those that aren't. .. don't.
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Post by rick on Jan 7, 2011 11:43:21 GMT -5
Is that another slamMay-be. You got something to say Rick, why are you taking it so personally? You keep talking older , I thought I was in my prime
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 7, 2011 11:44:57 GMT -5
You keep talking older , I thought I was in my prime It's not MY fault you see yourself in my posts.
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Post by rick on Jan 7, 2011 11:47:58 GMT -5
You keep talking older , I thought I was in my prime It's not MY fault you see yourself in my posts. Well I am only 29
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 7, 2011 11:52:42 GMT -5
Well I am only 29 Gah, if 29 makes you old then I am only 2 years away!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2011 11:56:48 GMT -5
Refusing vaccinations has caused more than just outbreaks in whooping cough, measles outbreaks are becoming common... here's one article on WebMD... children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20100322/vaccination-choice-affects-other-kids-tooWhile I am scared about vaccinating my children, what scares me most is the number of shots they receive at once. DH and I agree that the vaccinations are important, but we prefer to have them spread out so that our children receive no more than 2 every 2 months. I think that bombarding a baby's system with 4-6 different strains cannot be good.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 7, 2011 12:02:45 GMT -5
DD is 4 months and she's only recieved 5 shots. Three at 2 months and 2 at four months. Don't know if it is just my pedatrician and how he/the state operate but I've almost blurted out that I don't understand how this is an excessive cluster of vaccines at one time. They seem pretty well spaced out to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2011 12:09:38 GMT -5
I think the big cluster happens between one and two years of age. Looks like that is when CDC recommends Hep B, Hep A, Flu, Varicella, MMR, IPV, PCV, HiB, and DTap. I know alot of places do this all at once because they might not see the child again (health depts, etc; also the reason they do the Heps at this age), and I can see some parents not wanting to pay more copays or visit fees. I have no problem with parents willing to space them out.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 7, 2011 12:14:07 GMT -5
Oh, okay, that is what was meant by cluster. I think a lot of what they get, how much and when depends on the state laws and your doctor. Just because the CDC recommends it doesn't mean everyone gets them, if that makes sense. It's just last year that the school systems here now require the chicken pox vaccination. I trust my pediatrician, he was mine and has been practicing for over 30 years (I would not be surprised if over half the town had him as their ped) so I am going by his schedule. She's had 2 Hep B shots, HiB and two DTap. I could have opted out of the Hep B shots, but I had to scurry around and get them as an adult for my job (work in a hospital setting and with animals), so I personally decided it'd be easier for her to just have them now and be done with it. I figure if I am not f-ed up, then DD probably isn't going to be either.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2011 12:17:34 GMT -5
When I was shopping for a ped with my first she told me flat out that if I didn't want to follow the recommended schedule to find another doc. Needless to say I did!
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