Wages: Grocery Store Workers Go On Hunger Strike

[b2r]

May 28, 2011 19:17:51 GMT -5 b2r said:

Current Openings:

Carlson Building Maintenance operates in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, South Dakota and North Dakota. We are always seeking people who want to learn our industry and advance in a career. We are currently taking applications for:

Floor Care Technician - Unskilled entry level - Night work, Full-time and Part-time. Paid-time-off benefits to full-time employees. Floor care is physically demanding work. Previous experience preferred but not required. Will train.

Lead Floor Technician - Night work with more advanced skills and responsibility and more pay than a Floor Care Technician. Physically demanding work. Knowledge of floor cleaning equipment and experience required. Paid-time off benefits.

Project Specialist - Night work performing stripping of floors and other special projects. Requires more knowledge/skills and pays more than a Lead Floor Care Technician. Must have the ability to travel to site locations within a specified region. Paid-Time Off benefits.


www.carlsonbuilding.com/employment.html

[Deleted]

Looks like there are advancement opportunities there. Gotta wonder why Jose did not take them. May mess up his other benies, the gov't ones.

[cme1201]

Carlson may have other temps at other stores being paid totally different wages. Meanwhile, if Cub gets rid of Carlson and brings in contractors from Joe Blow, they will pay the same wages. Carlson is a fig-leaf and this is a way of reducing costs.

No I am a Sub, in our business, we sub out our work, the general contractor that we work for is not responsible for what we pay our carpenters. Just as Cub is not responsible for what Carlson pays there floor cleaners. Yes Cub subs out the work to keep costs low, yet Cub cannot and should not be held responsible for Jose's wages. It is the responsibility of the Sub contractor to price his employee's wages when bidding the job, you guys who are blaming Cub Foods really seem not to understand who controls Jose's pay, and that is not Cub foods.

[cme1201]

Carlson cannot change the rate once he accepts the contract without the agreement of Cub

No Carlson can increase it's bid rate to affect the availibility of wage increases into said bid to Cub Foods. It is not Cub Foods responsibility to provide Jose's wages. Unless you can show me that Cub Foods and not Carlson issues a paycheck to Jose.

[tbop77]

Let's face it, employers loyalty to employees has ended. Welcome to the new America! Many have stated how a 16 year old could do his job, let me tell you how that works in the real world. In Feb, an employee that operates a machine at our plant ask for a raise. No raises this year, you know, the economy is bad. This is during the period that they are in meetings deciding how the $526K that has been accrued from last year is going to be paid in bonuses to management. The employee left for another position with our competitor. We have had three people in that position since. The first guy burned a $3000 order incorrcetly, cost us a large account. The second guy caused the machine mechanical problems, down for three days. We are waiting to see how this third guy turns out......

What goes around, comes around!

[cme1201]

May 30, 2011 7:02:53 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

In Construction, one hires a GC and his subcontractors to complete a specific job and go. No one contemplates this being an ongoing situation. If the Construction Company was hired to work for a client forever, things would have to be treated differently.

I feel someone doesn't know how continuing contracts work. There are many types of of contractual agreements that a sub-contractor can get into, we have a 3 year continuing contract with the local school board (they would be the employer, we the sub, much like Cub foods/Carlson) we agreed to a set per square foot price as part of our contract, what has happened in our situation, one year into our contract metal, drywall and portland had an increase of 31%, 48%, 21% respectively our second year into the contract our increase for the year was 37% across the board, so far this year we have had a 31% increase with at least 2 more expected by the end of contract, yet we still pay at .67 sf.

You guys are focusing your anger on what truly is a non issue. finding another big business boggy-man picking on the small guy, when the person you should be focusing your anger on is Carlson's policies, but it's easier to blame a boggy-man than to deal with the facts.

[ugonow]

BS on no whites doing floor work. My ex started as a HS drop out with Safeway bagging groceries. He went to graveyard stocking, then to floors, then to dairy, then produce, then lower management, progressed to upper management and HIGH pay.

I meant in general. Like I posted,a few years back,I took a night job breaking down loads and stocking shelves[SFWY] to help pay off some medical bills. Min.wage,no benefits,and the cleaning crew was all Mexican. I was told I had to work a year and then they could put me on a fast track for promotions,but as my intention was only to get rid of some bills,I left before the year. And I stand by my statement that in general,whites do not do these types of jobs.It is considered below them.

[ugonow]

Quote:UFCW SUX-- enables addictions and wife beaters, pays drunks, druggies, and abusers while in jail, destroys families.
------------------------
Good Lord. A few years ago I got night job [ufcw] breaking down loads and stocking shelves at a local grocery store to help pay off some medical bills. I am not a druggie,a wife beater,drunk,or whatever else you may think the kid bagging your groceries may be. I met some great people there,...pretty much a cross sample of the people you meet anywhere in your neighborhood. Why not ask the cashier checking you out next time which one of those descriptions fit them and see what they say?

Hmmmm I think I understand where this comment came from now.

My ex started as a HS drop out with Safeway bagging groceries. He went to graveyard stocking,

[tbop77]

I believe I was stating a fact in my example. The big business boggy-man would have been better off taking care of a dedicated employee rather than focusing on short-term gains for themselves.

Working in the accounting field and dealing with payroll provides valuable insight as to how companies operate, small and large. Most times, I shake my head at how many people here really have no clue!

[ugonow]

What is happening is that companies are subcontracting out EVERY JOB to temp agencies in an effort to cut payroll costs.

And contrary to the posts otherwise,it is not Obama's fault.This started years ago. .

[tbop77]

True, like I said, management dividing up $526K bonus accrued from the success of the business from 2010. Share the wealth!

[ugonow]

True, like I said, management dividing up $526K bonus accrued from the success of the business from 2010. Share the wealth!

I have no problem with what anyone makes.They should have to answer to shareholders,though, if they can not hire and retain decent employees because of it. Although in a tight market like this, the employer pretty much holds all the cards.

[ugonow]

We are moving towards a society where the taxpayer via EITC, foodstamps, and medicaid is supporting large portions of the working class. Call me a Communist, but wages from gainful employment are supposed to provide the basics of life, not transfer payments from other workers.

And the flip side to this is companies are reporting record profits.....far from communism,imo.

[b2r]

May 30, 2011 9:10:10 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

If you are actually a member of the working poor living on $8 or $9 an hour or a bonafide welfare case you will have no big screen TV, car, whatever. This is only a fantasy. Those who possess such are probably criminals, not working poor. If you are making more than $8 or $9 an hour and don't possess such, I ask why not? Mathematics says you can better afford them.

The man sends 3-4 hundred to Mexico each month. When he gets a raise his family in Mexico will get a raise and he'll still be in the same position.

[b2r]

Nearly one American in two is currently "financially fragile" -- unable, that is, to come up with $2000 dollars in 30 days to deal with an unexpected emergency.

www.huffingtonpost.com/david-coates/punishment-or-pushback-fi_b_867818.html

[b2r]

So, how did we get so fragile?

By spending more than we make.

[Deleted]

Ok Deziloooooo here's your replies:
Ok wrong on the age, thus surprised about that lack of understanding.
I understand totally. Entry level job that this guy has been in 9 years. He has no skills & no drive to get ahead. Inflation is hurting him but his solution is not to make more money by progressing up to a higher job. His solution is to protest to a company that he doesn't work for.

"How about you showing us how you would pay the guy "
Sure easy. He would be making about 9 or 10 bucks an hour depending on: the job he does, if he is dependable, how much trouble he gives me, if I have to have someone there to communicate my thoughts to him every time I give him directions (I don't speak Spanish), etc. I doubt that I would have started him off at 9 per hour more like 7 or 8. Oh & figuring into that would also be the contract that I signed to do those floors, how profitable it was. Lastly on this, it's a typical liberal trick to turn the question around on the asker & then not answer it. The truth is that if you give the guy what you feel he needs that amount wouldn't be in line with the job that he's doing. That would allow others here to point it out to you & possibly make fun of you. So you didn't answer & turned the question around. My answering was easy because I believe that the job sets the pay scale, not what someone should have.

I am sure there were / are some small raises available, .25 per hour, over time ...get him something if he has been dependable, being able to be left in charge to do the job, no or little supervision, freeing supervisors up..have a coffee with him and explain that in these jobs, not very much lee way, be honest with him, possible look to see if he could move in to a bit of supervisory position , but show a interest a concern, communicate, not just take for granted,
It seems that your reading into it that he deserves raises because he has done a good job. I'm not. He hasn't progressed up in the company so either he's not that great or he isn't motivated (there are job openings, which I saw on another post).

I am also getting from you, I am very good at reading between the lines, a cockiness in your replies to me and others, a chip on the shoulder and got to tell you, don't need that crap, just a discussion and ideas.

I agree that your good at reading between the lines of someone that you feel sorry for or that you feel abused. I don't agree that your good at reading between the lines of someone who's thoughts you disagree with.

Possible you are not aware of it , how you are coming across, thus the heads up as to how your coming across, and if you really don't care, well at least let you know , rest up to you.

I can't understand how I could get upset or bothered by just saying something like "The requirements of the job set the pay scale" over & over & over. I'm sure that you probably don't realize the way your coming across talking about this poor man who needs more money & the big bad company that won't pay him for this ENTRY LEVEL job.

[Deleted]

An article I ran across explaining why companies now hire contract/temp workers rather than direct hire, like 30 years ago when my ex husband started at the bottom and worked to the top at Safeway, including his time doing floors. Look for more and more of this as companies try to escape from Obamacare and other things that strangle businesses.
There are actually companies firing their staffs, then connecting them to an agency and putting them back in their old jobs at lower pay and no benies. They are trying to survive the economy and beat Obamacare mandates. I've heard employers interviewed about this on the radio. This is NOT a business friendly economy, and as people have said for a long time now-- it will NOT help employees, but will roll downhill and slap them in the face. This is what happens when gov't is anti-business.

money.cnn.com/2010/06/01/news/economy/contract_jobs/index.htm

Say goodbye to full-time jobs with benefits

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Jobs may be coming back, but they aren't the same ones workers were used to.

Many of the jobs employers are adding are temporary or contract positions, rather than traditional full-time jobs with benefits. With unemployment remaining near 10%, employers have their pick of workers willing to accept less secure positions.

In 2005, the government estimated that 31% of U.S. workers were already so-called contingent workers. Experts say that number could increase to 40% or more in the next 10 years.

James Stoeckmann, senior practice leader at WorldatWork, a professional association of human resource executives, believes that full-time employees could become the minority of the nation's workforce within 20 to 30 years, leaving employees without traditional benefits such as health coverage, paid vacations and retirement plans, that most workers take for granted today.

"The traditional job is not doomed. But it will increasingly have competition from other models, the most prominent is the independent contractor model," he said.

Doug Arms, senior vice president of Ajilon, a staffing firm, says about 90% of the positions his company is helping clients fill right now are on a contract basis.


"[Employers] are reluctant to bring on permanent employees too quickly," he said. "And the available candidate landscape is much different now. They're a little more aggressive to take any position."

Cathy, who asked that her last name not be used, lost her job as a recruiter for a financial services firm in February 2009. She started working on a contract basis four months later. She believes that many employers are taking improper advantage of the weak labor market.

"I work in HR, I understand that sometimes you need to hire a contractor because you have a project and you won't need the person when it's done in three months," she said. "But that's not what's happening here."

Cathy said her co-workers who had permanent jobs didn't treat her differently, but she still felt like a second-class citizen.

"At one job they were giving out H1N1 flu shots but the contract workers weren't eligible to receive them," she said. "I said 'You guys are still in trouble if I get the flu.'"

Much of the change is due to employers' desire to limit their costs. Stoechmann equates the shift to the one seen in retirement plans, in which employers moved away from the traditional pension plan toward defined contribution plans, which passes more of the burden onto the employee.

Demographic factors are feeding the shift as well. Stoechmann said many younger workers are more open to the idea of not tying themselves to a single employer.

And as baby boomers reach the age when they are eligible for Medicare and not dependent upon their employer for health insurance, many are more open to contract work.

Health care reform legislation passed earlier this year, which will create a mandate for employers to provide health benefits for employees but not contractors, will also feed the trend.

"Once you have an employer mandate in place, you create an incentive for employers to get around that mandate," said Susan Houseman, a senior economist studying labor issues at the W.E. Upjohn Institute.

Houseman also believes the jobs market could stay tilted in favor of employers for much of the coming decade, because of the depth of job losses and the lingering weakness in the economy.

Sara Horowitz, the founder and executive director of the Freelancers Union, an advocacy group for freelancers and independent contractors, said that employment laws and protections have been slow to recognize the shift. For example, independent contractors aren't eligible for unemployment benefits. And they have to pay both the employee and the employer match on their Social Security taxes.

But Horowitz said not everyone who works as a freelancer or independent contractor is unhappy with their situation.

She estimates about 30% are satisfied with the arrangement, about equal to the number who desperately want to find a full-time job with benefits. The other 40% are somewhere in the middle, feeling pleased by aspects of their job and unhappy about others.

"It's not that most want to be freelancers or don't want to be freelancers. They're just following the work, and the work itself is evolving," she said.

[Deleted]

It's the trend of the future as businesses try to survive. Imagine 40% of the work force not being employees in the next few years. I think gov't will like that, because it creates a higher number of gov't dependents. They WANT people on food stamps and subsidized Obamacare, because it gives them power over votes... IMO. At least gov't under Obama. I sincerely hope Republicans do not want that. Impossible to tell right now. I believe people that will vote Repub in the next election are tying to go back to better days and policies for workers, not further in to the mess we are in now. People say that is not true, but I don't believe that. To ME a gov't that supports companies hiring full time employees with awesome benies and retirement, etc, is a FAR better thing than people being dependent on gov't for their healthcare, old age, etc. I'm sure not alone in that thought.

[Deleted]

I don't feel a bit sorry for Jose. I imagine he has several room mates, possibly lying about having children, unless he is gay or something, and they most likely have more food in their home than we do in my home. Wonder if there is info on Jose's living arrangement available. How many on food stamps, etc....The people using Jose and his friends to further their cause should put that info out there..

[Deleted]

Imagine seeing good food tossed in the garbage while you are not even offered a bite.
Your right toughtimes, not only is it wasteful but I can imagine that it would be hard on the employee (of course in this case he's not an employee of the company throwing away the food so that "might" make a difference). Part of it though, we have done to ourselves with our legal system. You can sue anyone for anything & there doesn't have to be grounds for it. Someone eats the flood & then gets the flu & boom your being sued. It doesn't matter that flu symptoms are those of food poisoning somewhere out there is a lawyer willing to take the case. Then of course there's the cases where the food is really bad. The legal liability would be expensive.

Then there's something else (I used to work in restaurants when I was a kid & saw it). If you let employee's take food that's expired, sooner or later they will stretch the point & take food that's going to expire. For some people that's not really a large step. Oh & don't forget the sloppy employee's that aren't doing their jobs & don't bother to update stickers & such or that might put a sooner expiration date just so they can take it home. If you start down that path it's amazing what can happen.

There are companies out there that have a system in place to give that food (all of it) to shelters & such. I think that's the best idea going. Then there's no question as to what's going to happen to it.

[Deleted]

I too believe the waste is due to the legal liability, but just who is suing these businesses? They aren't suing themselves.

In our sue crazy society anyone who even thinks they might have gotten sick from eating this food would sue. Sad to say but businesses have to try to take the first step & cover their butts.

Years back (when we lived in Alamogordo, NM) someone tripped over some unequal concrete to the side of one of the stores (the only store in that section, the rest of the building was used for storage). Well they came into the business & told what happened (& of course they were really really hurt, yet could walk in). The guy that owned the business agreed that the concrete was uneven but point out that he didn't own it, it was in front of one of the storage areas plus he didn't own the building anyway (he was a renter).

Well a few months later he received a letter saying that he was being sued. The person didn't even bother to find out who owned the place, they were just suing the easiest person to identify. We need (& I just saw that some states are passing them) a nuisance lawsuit law. When you sue just to sue then the other party should be able to sue you right back for their time, costs, & stress.

[fairlycrazy23]

Liability is a big reason you don't want to give expired products away. Plus employee shrinkage is usually the biggest loss for grocery stores, and you probably don't want the same people deciding what to throw out being able to get what is being thrown out. In a sane world the grocery store, restaurant or whatever would be able to give there employees products that were still good, but not quite suitable for sale, the employee would know there was some added risk the product was not good, but would accept the product with an understanding of the added risks.

A well implemented loser pays system would go a long way to fixing frivolous lawsuits, currently it is too costly for most companies to fight these lawsuits so they pay to settle or just eliminate the possible liable product

[deziloooooo]

my lord, over 220 responses, 1200 hits...if all gave $1 to Jose , he would be so happy.......

[vonnie6200]

May 30, 2011 15:51:58 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

my lord, over 220 responses, 1200 hits...if all gave $1 to Jose , he would be so happy.......

for a short window of time

[deziloooooo]

May 30, 2011 16:12:57 GMT -5 vonnie6200 said:

May 30, 2011 15:51:58 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

my lord, over 220 responses, 1200 hits...if all gave $1 to Jose , he would be so happy.......

for a short window of time

True but he would be so apprecitive, complete stranger out of the blue, whereas his long term employer , in appreciation for his work and dedication....squat. ;D
I figure that post will; generate another 200 responses andanother 100 hits, and off we go

[vonnie6200]

May 30, 2011 16:39:24 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

May 30, 2011 16:12:57 GMT -5 vonnie6200 said:

for a short window of time

True but he would be so apprecitive, complete stranger out of the blue, whereas his long term employer , in appreciation for his work and dedication....squat. ;D
I figure that post will; generate another 200 responses andanother 100 hits, and off we go

and in appreciation for an opportunity extended to an Illegal - he has done nothing, that has been shown, to improve his worth to his employer

[deziloooooo]

there's one, only 199 to go.

[vonnie6200]

May 30, 2011 17:39:04 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

there's one, only 199 to go.

;D

Maybe he could go home to Mexico and protest the Mexican government and Mexican companies for not making his life easier or offering him better opportunities

[vonnie6200]

May 30, 2011 17:53:11 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Don't laugh. It takes a lot of guts to go on a hunger-strike. No one does this lightly. It can mean death.

maybe he's become anorexic