ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 29, 2011 14:11:55 GMT -5
Very true.There are different forms of unions.IMO,industry lobbys are a form of unions.They gather together to promote what is best for the industry.....The AMA is a powerful union with a lot of political clout,as are other groups....
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 29, 2011 14:18:38 GMT -5
cme, the federal poverty level is used for many government programs, qualifiying for EITC and only Alaska and Hawaii are deemed different enough to have their own tables for 2011. www.coverageforall.org/pdf/FHCE_FedPovertyLevel.pdfIt is quite possible the states use different "poverty levels" for qualifying for affordable housing and perhaps other things. NJ uses the federal guidelines for foodstamps even though for affordable housing, the top tier, moderate, stops around $48-$50K for one person in the three counties I have checked. For Food Stamps, Section 8 housing and the like the poverty level is determined by state, when it comes to federal taxes that is Federal. EITC has no bearing in this case as Jose has no children nor qualifing Dependants. What I showed from the University of Minnesota is there state guidelines for the poverty level, which are even with the federal level shows that Jose as a family of one is almost 2x's the poverty level of his state and federal poverty level, which is in a normal sense a living wage. Which is the part of the discussion that I was having with Lahkota and toughtimes. When you remove the emotional aspect from the conversation, Jose hasn't had a raise, Jose can't feed himself, Jose's poor mother and Sister in Mexico and just look at the facts presented you can see that poor Jose is as poor as they say, he just has certain choices that he has to make with the money he has coming in, just like most hard working people.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 14:21:01 GMT -5
How dare they protest , make complaints...try to organize as a labor unit..shameful, where do they think they are, America?? oops..oh, they are Americans, sorry there. , me bad. Shame on them Dezi for protesting the wrong business, it is not Cub Foods/SuperValu that they are employed by, but that doesn't matter right, do not go after the one who pays the employee, instead go after the big business who took advantage of the poor cleaning service. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I hope. I really hope that Cub Foods decides to cancel all contracts and takes the floor cleaning over internally and places Jose and all those like him on unemployment. Actually, if he is able to collect..give him some breathing space to look for other employment so might not be the worst thing for him because where he is working..not much future. As far as the suggestion that he probably is here illegaly that some have put up here, who knows on that right? I would think , logically thinking, if he was here illegaly, he would never bring any attention to himself. Just because some one might be here illegally or a different race then the norm here, means they are stupid and aren't aware of the laws and the enforcement of.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 14:21:54 GMT -5
Cleaning floors doesn't require work experience, knowledge, or basically ANYTHING. An average 14 year old can do it (if he has enough weight to hold the buffer. Just about all 16 year olds could do it (without experience). Training, sorry but what would it take....maybe (if your slow) 15 minutes of instruction. This is (I'll say it again) an entry level job & does not pay like a skill level job but like an entry level job. If this is all this person is qualified for then why are we even discussing it? Sounds to me like he's getting paid what he's worth.
I'm still waiting for a liberal to come along & fill out how they would pay him. Surely there's one around?
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 29, 2011 14:23:23 GMT -5
As far as the suggestion that he probably is here illegaly that some have put up here, who knows on that right?
The fact that when he was asked in the article and he refused to answer gives a very good indication. If Jose is in such bad shape now Dezi do you really think 66% of 9$ an hour on UE is going to better his situation.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 29, 2011 14:28:08 GMT -5
But in reality,most 16 yr olds won't do that kind of work,or whites,for that matter. It is below them.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 29, 2011 14:28:56 GMT -5
deleted,sorry double post
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 29, 2011 14:32:14 GMT -5
But in reality,most 16 yr olds won't do that kind of work,or whites,for that matter. It is below them. Still, I wonder how many would consider it if they knew it paid better than being a cashier at the local grocery store. The local ARC is hiring entry level people at $10/hr and FT is only 35 hours. Certs and training will be required. $9 x 40 hrs. is slightly better and doesn't involve helping people go to the toliet, feeding them, etc. Hmmm.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 14:52:33 GMT -5
Cleaning floors doesn't require work experience, knowledge, or basically ANYTHING. An average 14 year old can do it (if he has enough weight to hold the buffer. Just about all 16 year olds could do it (without experience). Training, sorry but what would it take....maybe (if your slow) 15 minutes of instruction. This is (I'll say it again) an entry level job & does not pay like a skill level job but like an entry level job. If this is all this person is qualified for then why are we even discussing it? Sounds to me like he's getting paid what he's worth. I'm still waiting for a liberal to come along & fill out how they would pay him. Surely there's one around? I am thinking, and possible am wrong but think it anyway, that you are on the younger side, not that experienced in the work force and if I am wrong , then I am going to suggst your not that observant and possible not that interested in your fellow man, and their situations. Just a guess. I once wached a professional window washer, simple job I agree, but he made it look like a dance in motion. He was cleaning show room windows in a retail establishjment, and as he moved down the line of windows to be cleaned , not a wasted motion, no over lap and waste, each swipe the same as before in where he was in the job, results, perfectly cleaned, no streaks, no missing spaces. On to the next window. I was at a late night eating establishment , Toddle House, West Hartford , Ct , center, say 2 AM, diner, all stools filled, people in back waiting for opening at the counter, booth, , and the one on the grill, like a artist, as he plied his craft. As the orders arrived, the spaces on the grill filled with the food to cover the orders set up perfectly, no wasted space, occasionally a break as a order for waffles come and that utencil used with batter already made and ready in it's container, then back to the grill moving the ready product and plating it, setting it up for pick up with the quick ringing iof a small bell, no words, besides a quick murmer from time to time, between the preparer and the server needed. Once by accident, two eggs hit the floor, in a instant, a scoop with the spatula, eggs in trash, towel put down to finish the clean up, so no one slips, utensils thrust into the already filled sink , fresh ones grabbed and put to work, no wasted movement, a true artist, to watch him was as much pleasure as the food was that he prepared. The one who has been cleaning those floors for nine years, I am sure he is much of a professional as these two folks I have observed years ago, and unlike the young one who might replace him, has shown to be dependable , evey night shows for work, day after day, being able to be depended on so the company can continue to keep the contract, no complaints, work done perfectly, no complaints by managers, no need to look around for a replacement. I am sure you haven't a clue as to what I was discussing.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 15:18:22 GMT -5
BS on no whites doing floor work. My ex started as a HS drop out with Safeway bagging groceries. He went to graveyard stocking, then to floors, then to dairy, then produce, then lower management, progressed to upper management and HIGH pay. Reason grocery stores do not work this way any more is because they can't meet union demands in this economy, so they contract out now. Blame the unions. Wal-Mart is not union, by the way. People can still get 40 hour weeks there, and have the chance to advance. Which is why unions hate Wal-Mart. Even so, they managed to snuggle up enough to get an exemption to Obamacare..
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on May 29, 2011 15:31:02 GMT -5
USA- only modern country where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care- or good vacations or real parental leave, and largest homeless and prison populations, and start depressions! Thank you pubs...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 15:59:51 GMT -5
USA- only modern country where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care- or good vacations or real parental leave, and largest homeless and prison populations, and start depressions! Thank you pubs... What is remarkable is so many , here especially it seems , as long as some one is working , all is well with the world and things will work out. That they are working and their renumeration does not allow them to have a quality of life that allows what America considers a good life, is unimportant, as long as they are working, the rest is just not that important. I am definitly not one of the hugh earners , but I earned good renumertion in my working days, knew what it was to save, invest, think ahead and was not satisfied with just working, sleeping and just depending on those around me, say sitting in a circle before a fire singing Kumba ya as my fulfillment. I enjoyed good food, occasion foreys into the city for real shows, nice auto, some toys, occassional concerts, travel when I could, abroad too, educating the children, nice home that I OWNED, not rent, it was mine to do with what I wanted, and able to prepare my self for the time I no longer was part of the work force, not to be a burdon on love ones, live a , not extravegent retirement but a nice retirement.
Sorry to say, that type of life style does not come about by just having employment, having good family relations even if one really likes the circle, fire in the middle and has a great voice when kum ba ya is sung...more is needed.
For me anyway.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 17:06:49 GMT -5
I am thinking, and possible am wrong but think it anyway, that you are on the younger side, not that experienced in the work force and if I am wrong , then I am going to suggst your not that observant and possible not that interested in your fellow man, and their situations. Just a guess.
Nope, wrong on both of them. I'm knocking on the door of 60 & I started working at 12 years old. In High School I had 2 jobs. I used my first buffer when I went into the military about 5 minutes after I saw it when I reported for dorm clean up. Buffers are easy.
On your comment about him being a professional now, I bet he wasn't when he started. But that doesn't really matter because any HS or college kid could become a professional in about a week buffing floors. Sorry but entry level jobs are just that & most of them don't require a lot of skill. Sure you will develop skill with any job over time (you learn to do it better & faster) but not to the point that someone is going to pay you $25 per hour to run a buffer. It just doesn't happen. Simply put low skill = low money. How about you showing us how you would pay the guy Deziloooooo?
Ok Liberals. Not only do I not agree with you but I really don't understand your reasoning. I bet a lot of other conservatives are in the same boat. How about you guys explaining it to us using this case. Lets say this guy works for the company 30 years & retired from working there. What do you think he should be making at the end of that time & also the raises during that time? Should he have a 401k? Should the company match? If so what? How about explaining it to us?
Starting wage $9.00 Pay after 5 years = pay after 10 years = pay after 15 years = pay after 20 years = pay after 25 years = pay at retirement = 401K (yes or no) Company match (yes or no) What year working for the company would it start? If yes, what percent? =
Educate us!
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 17:21:38 GMT -5
I am thinking, and possible am wrong but think it anyway, that you are on the younger side, not that experienced in the work force and if I am wrong , then I am going to suggst your not that observant and possible not that interested in your fellow man, and their situations. Just a guess.Nope, wrong on both of them. I'm knocking on the door of 60 & I started working at 12 years old. In High School I had 2 jobs. I used my first buffer when I went into the military about 5 minutes after I saw it when I reported for dorm clean up. Buffers are easy. On your comment about him being a professional now, I bet he wasn't when he started. But that doesn't really matter because any HS or college kid could become a professional in about a week buffing floors. Sorry but entry level jobs are just that & most of them don't require a lot of skill. Sure you will develop skill with any job over time (you learn to do it better & faster) but not to the point that someone is going to pay you $25 per hour to run a buffer. It just doesn't happen. Simply put low skill = low money. How about you showing us how you would pay the guy Deziloooooo? Ok Liberals. Not only do I not agree with you but I really don't understand your reasoning. I bet a lot of other conservatives are in the same boat. How about you guys explaining it to us using this case. Lets say this guy works for the company 30 years & retired from working there. What do you think he should be making at the end of that time & also the raises during that time? Should he have a 401k? Should the company match? If so what? How about explaining it to us? Starting wage $9.00 Pay after 5 years = pay after 10 years = pay after 15 years = pay after 20 years = pay after 25 years = pay at retirement = 401K (yes or no) Company match (yes or no) What year working for the company would it start? If yes, what percent? = Educate us! Ok wrong on the age, thus surprised about that lack of understanding. "How about you showing us how you would pay the guy " I'm his maager or one who decides these things..I am sure he must have brought wages up, possible not, afraid to. If in nine years..no raise, not kosher, and I am sure there is a bit of leeway and no not $25 per. I am sure there were / are some small raises available, .25 per hour, over time ...get him something if he has been dependable, being able to be left in charge to do the job, no or little supervision, freeing supervisors up..have a cofee with him and explain that in these jobs, not very much lee way, be honest with him, possible look to see if he could move in to a bit of suopervisory position , but show a interst a concern, communicate, not just take for granted, Possible it was done, most likey not. I am also getting from you, I am very good at reading between the lines, a cockiness in your replys to me and others, a chip on the shoulder and got to tell you, don't need that crap, just a discussion and ideas. Possible you are not aware of it , how you are coming across, thus the heads up as to how your coming across, and if you really don't care, well at least let you know , rest up to you.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on May 29, 2011 19:06:51 GMT -5
I keep trying to picture all this from the companies point of view and simple economics. How much money or income is the company able to bring in and what are their expenses.
I know in my little world over the last few years ALL my expenses have risen but my income has not.
Is Carlson a small, privately owned company? Has the personal income of the owner(s) risen over the last 9 years? Has it fallen? Can Carlson replace Jose for less money? Has Carlson's other expenses risen over the last few years? Has Carlson had to bid their contract lower to keep the contract?
Can Jose work a part time job? Has Jose asked for a raise? Is Jose dependable? Can Jose work as a supervisor?
I think we really need more facts than we have to really understand what all is going on here.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on May 29, 2011 19:08:18 GMT -5
USA- only modern country where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care- or good vacations or real parental leave, and largest homeless and prison populations, and start depressions! Thank you pubs... I'd really like to see some links, some facts etc - to support that entry level employees elsewhere around the modern world live a middle class life style.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 19:12:41 GMT -5
I keep trying to picture all this from the companies point of view and simple economics. How much money or income is the company able to bring in and what are their expenses. I know in my little world over the last few years ALL my expenses have risen but my income has not. Is Carlson a small, privately owned company? Has the personal income of the owner(s) risen over the last 9 years? Has it fallen? Can Carlson replace Jose for less money? Has Carlson's other expenses risen over the last few years? Has Carlson had to bid their contract lower to keep the contract? Can Jose work a part time job? Has Jose asked for a raise? Is Jose dependable? Can Jose work as a supervisor? I think we really need more facts than we have to really understand what all is going on here. I personally feel your over analyzing this little story, we all spending more time then needed on Jose in my opinion, but if you feel your into it, go to it. I was asked what I would do, I posted what I would do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 19:14:00 GMT -5
They DON'T!! If your job is to do floors, and there is no promise that you will ever do more than do floors-- that is your job. Don't like it, don't do it. Or starve yourself to death if the economy tanks.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 19:15:57 GMT -5
Vonnie ( not meant to tarnish your rep here.. LOL!!)
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 19:23:32 GMT -5
They DON'T!! If your job is to do floors, and there is no promise that you will ever do more than do floor-- that is your job. Don't like it, don't do it. Or starve yourself to death if the economy tanks. I get a feeling your p at poor Jose for some reason. I guess being a independent contractor you got into a role a bad day driving, possible cruise some more for a few more fares , unless you had to be back at a certain time or possible due another shift..don' t really know how cab companies and their workers[contractors ]work. In Jose case, he was working 10 years or so for the same hourly...no raises, I can understand his frustration. I know , get another job, get more skills, go back to school, learn the language better, what do you expect , stop complaining, don't like it , go back to where you came from ,see if you can do better there..how dare you complain you ungrateful... In the meantime , Jose has been working at the same job for 10 years and hasn't received a raise, he's frustrated and unhappy.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 29, 2011 19:25:45 GMT -5
9 years, The 52-year-old Mexican immigrant works the overnight shift cleaning floors inside a Cub Foods store in Minneapolis, Minn., a job he's mostly appreciated for the nine years he's held it down. Not 10 9, keep the facts of the story straight if you intend to tug the heart strings.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 29, 2011 19:26:32 GMT -5
In the meantime , Jose has been working at the same job for 10 years and hasn't received a raise, he's frustrated and unhappy.
And yet Jose does not focus his anger at the reason he has had no raise which is Carlson not Cub Foods.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on May 29, 2011 19:30:31 GMT -5
In the meantime , Jose has been working at the same job for 10 years and hasn't received a raise, he's frustrated and unhappy. And yet Jose does not focus his anger at the reason he has had no raise which is Carlson not Cub Foods. And Jose has done nothing - that is apparent to the reader - to change his circumstances.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 29, 2011 19:31:32 GMT -5
In the meantime , Jose has been working at the same job for 10 years and hasn't received a raise, he's frustrated and unhappy. And yet Jose does not focus his anger at the reason he has had no raise which is Carlson not Cub Foods. And Jose has done nothing - that is apparent to the reader - to change his circumstances. I addressed that fact about 5 pages ago.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 19:38:37 GMT -5
9 years, The 52-year-old Mexican immigrant works the overnight shift cleaning floors inside a Cub Foods store in Minneapolis, Minn., a job he's mostly appreciated for the nine years he's held it down. Not 10 9, keep the facts of the story straight if you intend to tug the heart strings. Picky, picky and it could be 10 years now , this has been going on a long time and the story really didn't tug the heart trings enough to go back through the pages to see exactly how long the man has been doing the job.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 19:40:07 GMT -5
guess not, he's just been working at the same job, was it nine years now, and nary a raise, and he is frustrated and not happy.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 29, 2011 19:52:13 GMT -5
and he is frustrated and not happy
at the wrong company
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on May 29, 2011 19:57:47 GMT -5
And Jose has done nothing - that is apparent to the reader - to change his circumstances. I addressed that fact about 5 pages ago. I know you did - but it seemed to need readdressing.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 29, 2011 20:04:41 GMT -5
I worked at a grocery store when I first turned 16 for minimum wage [which was about 4 dollars less than Jose is making]. Part of my responsibilities included cleaning the floors with the buffer that the store had.
At 16, with no training, I was able to do what Jose has been doing the last 9 years.
My buddy's father owned a cleaning business [did car dealerships and some other places but not grocery stores]. My buddy used to work with his father, using the buffer at the age of 12.
It's not that complicated of a job - a 12 year old can do it. And yet Jose is being paid more than $1 over minimum wage. And in nearly 10 years, Jose has not increased his worth one cent - not even learning English. And Jose is making $1 - $1.50 more than other local cleaning crew members. He's quite fortunate.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 20:54:39 GMT -5
Dezi...How, if you were Carlson, would you come up with the money to pay Jose more money? Would you charge Cub foods more? Take it out of your already slim profits? Empty your child's piggy bank? What? I don't think you answered Tex's question: "I'm still waiting for a liberal to come along & fill out how they would pay him. Surely there's one around?" How do you and I know how large or small the sub Jose is working for is, seems it has a contrac fior a large chain, may be a substantial company. This whole conversation is silly...Jose has been working for NINE years..no raise, a .50 rise would not have put the sub out of business...the sub is a . Bye all
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