vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on May 28, 2011 20:56:43 GMT -5
Thank Obamacare for lots of the "temp" jobs, that seem to be real jobs.. except you are employed by your agency, and not your boss. That is just one of the tactics businesses are using to stay in business with new gov't mandates telling them they MUST do what they CANNOT do and still survive. and they are trying hard not to have to "go the F out of business"
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 28, 2011 20:57:51 GMT -5
Dez - your Dad sounds like a great guy! He was vonnie, for one who was uneducated , he was very smart, common sense. Served long tour in WW2 with "Blood and Guts", passed to soon, would love to be able to talk to him now as I have grown, but isn't that always the case Story my Aunt told me . They lived in the Valley, Ct, Ansonia, great High School Football Town, to this day, google it, and Pop had a jalopy and some how got hold of a fire engine siren and when he came into town, sure enough , off it went, all knew it was "Mush *********", cops finally had to tell him no more in town..a hell raiser.
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Post by lakhota on May 28, 2011 21:02:19 GMT -5
I have contracting experience on both ends of the spectrum. Jose's contractor obviously bid the job low enough to be awarded the contract but not high enough to pay his "remaining" employees a fair wage. Either that or he is scalping them.
I grew up around two very successful small family businesses (both very successful with one retiring a multi-millionaire), and both owners milked the hell out of employees. That pissed me off then and it pisses me off now. A business owner is not God just because s/he owns/runs the business. Ethical business owners have an obligation to humanity - and religion doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. When I see a business owner living in a mansion and employees living in borderline or outright substandard housing, that tells me all I need to know about the owner. How many homes and yachts does one person need?
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 28, 2011 21:05:30 GMT -5
Jose makes 9 dollars an hour times that by 40 hours a week = $360.00 per week pre-tax or $18,720.00, a family household size of 1 = a poverty level pre-tax of $10,830.00 www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/familydevelopment/00151.pdf So we see that Jose is making just shy of 2x's the poverty level, which would be a living wage. He is being paid a fair wage, just shy of 2x's the poverty level for 1 individual in a household.
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cme1201
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Tennis Elbow, Jock Itch, and Athletes Foot, every man has a sports life!
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Post by cme1201 on May 28, 2011 21:07:49 GMT -5
At his business he is, as long as he follows the laws that are set by congress, he has every right to dictate what,how,where and why his employee's do what ever they do. If the employee's do not like the rules they are free to terminate employment at any time.
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Post by lakhota on May 28, 2011 21:10:36 GMT -5
Jose makes 9 dollars an hour times that by 40 hours a week = $360.00 per week pre-tax or $18,720.00, a family household size of 1 = a poverty level pre-tax of $10,830.00 www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/familydevelopment/00151.pdf So we see that Jose is making just shy of 2x's the poverty level, which would be a living wage. He is being paid a fair wage, just shy of 2x's the poverty level for 1 individual in a household. 1? Although he has no children, Garcia says he has a mother and a wheelchair-bound sister to look after back in Mexico, where he tries to send $300 or $400 each month.
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Post by marshabar1 on May 28, 2011 21:11:20 GMT -5
Article sound fishy to me. More liberal whining and class mongering. Boss = evil.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on May 28, 2011 21:12:18 GMT -5
The contractor is just following the business model of the US government. That is to give the job to the low bidder. The problem with low bidder for the government is usually the job is poorly done and must be done over in many cases where they end up paying twice to get the job done right. The government cannot point any fingers. Going on a hunger strike by Jose is just a waste of time. They will just replace him.
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Post by lakhota on May 28, 2011 21:12:49 GMT -5
Spoken like a true dictator.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 28, 2011 21:16:36 GMT -5
That is spelled dictator.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 28, 2011 21:17:17 GMT -5
Jose makes 9 dollars an hour times that by 40 hours a week = $360.00 per week pre-tax or $18,720.00, a family household size of 1 = a poverty level pre-tax of $10,830.00 www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/familydevelopment/00151.pdf So we see that Jose is making just shy of 2x's the poverty level, which would be a living wage. He is being paid a fair wage, just shy of 2x's the poverty level for 1 individual in a household. 1? Although he has no children, Garcia says he has a mother and a wheelchair-bound sister to look after back in Mexico, where he tries to send $300 or $400 each month. Yes 1, Jose's household in the united states is 1, his mother and sister in Mexico are not part of his household. For Mother and Sister to be part of Jose's household they would need to live with him in the United States, you can try to play on the emotional aspect I will stick to the fact side.
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cme1201
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Tennis Elbow, Jock Itch, and Athletes Foot, every man has a sports life!
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Post by cme1201 on May 28, 2011 21:18:16 GMT -5
Spoken like a true dicktator. No spoken as one who has been an employer and an employee.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2011 21:19:34 GMT -5
How much "English" does he need to clean floors and do grunt work on night shift? The point is that he's doing more for less than when he started.
I don't agree that's the point at all. The point is (to me): This man took an entry level job 9 years ago. He was making pretty good money back then (better than say McDonalds, which is another entry level job). In that time what has he done to make himself employable at a higher rate. I'm guessing nothing because step one would have been to learn the language of the country that he is working in. He didn't bother to do that so I'm making an assumption that he didn't do anything else.
Now what were his long term plans? Sounds like they were to keep working there & he assumed that his pay would just keep going up? Up to what? Did he expect that in 9 years he would be making $35 per hour cleaning floors? Jobs pay what they are worth. My guess is that they could fire him now & hire high school students at 7 bucks an hour to do the same job. Get a clue, jobs are in short supply right now & they are paying him more than they could replace him for. He is at their mercy because of his actions.
Would he really be better off if they paid him $20 per hour & gave everybody else that worked there big raises? I doubt it because then the store wouldn't be competitive & it would go out of business & EVERYBODY would be out of work.
Sorry but this post is one of those feel bad posts where we all should say that poor guy. Well he is a poor guy & he will stay that way as long as he is doing entry level work. If he doesn't want to better himself then he is where he should be.
What else could he do? Lots of things. As a roofer (he could get training by working 6 months as a roofer btw) he would be making huge money (he would even make more than that being trained). Low expenses & a high per hour wage. That's just one suggestion.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 28, 2011 21:20:15 GMT -5
I have contracting experience on both ends of the spectrum. Jose's contractor obviously bid the job low enough to be awarded the contract but not high enough to pay his "remaining" employees a fair wage. Either that or he is scalping them. I grew up around two very successful small family businesses (both very successful with one retiring a multi-millionaire), and both owners milked the hell out of employees. That pissed me off then and it pisses me off now. A business owner is not God just because s/he owns/runs the business. Ethical business owners have an obligation to humanity - and religion doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. When I see a business owner living in a mansion and employees living in borderline or outright substandard housing, that tells me all I need to know about the owner. How many homes and yachts does one person need? Before I retired I was working as a manager, Sears...we had a long, long time associate, cashier and what ever, she could do just about any job on the floor and was worth two and a 1/2 on the register, aware, move customers, knew all the right promotions, sell the incidentals as she was checking them out, keep a long line happy with chit chat , jokes so customers were content as they waited, worth a bundle in relations. Had maxed out on per hour, needed more, asked I ok'd .50 per but store mgr turned down, could but wouldn't. Jean very upset and I asked her where she lived, I wasn't sure. Texas City, we had a store closer to there but she had been here for years, only a year or so from retirement so to quit would have been nuts...[she was of course eligible for retirement] ..I called my counter part over at the Texas City store, on the QT, explained the situation, he understood, said no problem...nsent her to see him, next week she comes in..gives me a big hug, a big kiss on the cheek , she was a big woman, , following week to start there , not .50 but .75 per more...smart manager, dumb manager. I retired a few months later and I know she retired but then went in to keep busy at the Texas City store a few days a week to earn a few bucks and keep busy and my friend, counterpart, said she was worth three of the new hires and was a great trouble shooter, worth all and more of the .75 per. Alls well that ends well...
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Post by marshabar1 on May 28, 2011 21:29:08 GMT -5
The contractor is just following the business model of the US government. That is to give the job to the low bidder. The problem with low bidder for the government is usually the job is poorly done and must be done over in many cases where they end up paying twice to get the job done right. The government cannot point any fingers. Going on a hunger strike by Jose is just a waste of time. They will just replace him. You're behind the times, handyman! The U.S. government gives jobs to the company that didn't donate to Republicans now. Cost be damned!
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Post by lakhota on May 28, 2011 21:47:00 GMT -5
I have contracting experience on both ends of the spectrum. Jose's contractor obviously bid the job low enough to be awarded the contract but not high enough to pay his "remaining" employees a fair wage. Either that or he is scalping them. I grew up around two very successful small family businesses (both very successful with one retiring a multi-millionaire), and both owners milked the hell out of employees. That pissed me off then and it pisses me off now. A business owner is not God just because s/he owns/runs the business. Ethical business owners have an obligation to humanity - and religion doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. When I see a business owner living in a mansion and employees living in borderline or outright substandard housing, that tells me all I need to know about the owner. How many homes and yachts does one person need? Before I retired I was working as a manager, Sears...we had a long, long time associate, cashier and what ever, she could do just about any job on the floor and was worth two and a 1/2 on the register, aware, move customers, knew all the right promotions, sell the incidentals as she was checking them out, keep a long line happy with chit chat , jokes so customers were content as they waited, worth a bundle in relations. Had maxed out on per hour, needed more, asked I ok'd .50 per but store mgr turned down, could but wouldn't. Jean very upset and I asked her where she lived, I wasn't sure. Texas City, we had a store closer to there but she had been here for years, only a year or so from retirement so to quit would have been nuts...[she was of course eligible for retirement] ..I called my counter part over at the Texas City store, on the QT, explained the situation, he understood, said no problem...nsent her to see him, next week she comes in..gives me a big hug, a big kiss on the cheek , she was a big woman, , following week to start there , not .50 but .75 per more...smart manager, dumb manager. I retired a few months later and I know she retired but then went in to keep busy at the Texas City store a few days a week to earn a few bucks and keep busy and my friend, counterpart, said she was worth three of the new hires and was a great trouble shooter, worth all and more of the .75 per. Alls well that ends well... I salute you, Sir.
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Post by lakhota on May 28, 2011 22:03:17 GMT -5
Grocery Store Cleaners Enter Day 7 of Hunger StrikeMore than 200 people—many of them janitorial workers—marched, rallied and protested in front of Cub Foods grocery store this week in Minneapolis, Minn., to urge the chain to treat their workers better. They’ve been waiting for a year for Cub Foods to come to the table. They’ve petitioned the chain, sent letters to Cub Foods representatives and sent a petition with hundreds of names, organized delegations to store headquarters. But the chain refuses to waiver. Ten people have taken up a hunger strike and are now entering Day 7. They’ve pitched their tents near the store in what is called “Camp Hunger.” They say they’ll continue to fast until Cub Foods responds to their demands for fair wages and improved conditions for the workers who clean their stores. On Monday, the workers and their allies delivered letters nationwide to Supervalu stores, which is the parent company of Cub Foods, demanding a Code of Conduct that would ensure fair treatment. “Workers across the country are concerned about the extreme deterioration of working conditions in the retail cleaning industry nationwide and want to ensure justice not only for retail cleaning workers in the Twin Cities but to ensure that retail cleaning workers across the country don’t continue to see their wages drop and their workloads increase,” said Veronica Mendez of the Centro de Trabajadores Unidos en la Lucha (CTUL), an affiliate of the national organization Interfaith Worker Justice. Last year, I reported on the efforts of janitors at Safeway stores in Northern California to improve working conditions at that chain. Just as Safeway did, Cub Foods says it’s not responsible for the poor treatment of workers because they are subcontracted out to a cleaning company. That company is Carlson Building Maintenance, whom Cub says is responsible for their workers. (Janitors in the Safeway fight, by the way, eventually ratified a collective bargaining agreement with Safeway’s janitorial services contractor, waging the base wages and strengthening health standards). Cub Foods and Carlson are using a common loophole to wash their hands of any responsibility to the worker. The retail companies contract out to professional maintenance companies. Then they take the lowest bid, pitting the maintenance companies against each other. While workers used to earn $10 an hour and work with a cleaning crew of four people, their pay has now dropped to $7.50 and the crew has shrunk to two, according to Mendez. More: www.todaysworkplace.org/2011/05/27/grocery-store-cleaners-enter-day-7-of-hunger-strike/
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 28, 2011 22:05:03 GMT -5
How much would Jose be paid then?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 28, 2011 22:07:11 GMT -5
Before I retired I was working as a manager, Sears...we had a long, long time associate, cashier and what ever, she could do just about any job on the floor and was worth two and a 1/2 on the register, aware, move customers, knew all the right promotions, sell the incidentals as she was checking them out, keep a long line happy with chit chat , jokes so customers were content as they waited, worth a bundle in relations. Had maxed out on per hour, needed more, asked I ok'd .50 per but store mgr turned down, could but wouldn't. Jean very upset and I asked her where she lived, I wasn't sure. Texas City, we had a store closer to there but she had been here for years, only a year or so from retirement so to quit would have been nuts...[she was of course eligible for retirement] ..I called my counter part over at the Texas City store, on the QT, explained the situation, he understood, said no problem...nsent her to see him, next week she comes in..gives me a big hug, a big kiss on the cheek , she was a big woman, , following week to start there , not .50 but .75 per more...smart manager, dumb manager. I retired a few months later and I know she retired but then went in to keep busy at the Texas City store a few days a week to earn a few bucks and keep busy and my friend, counterpart, said she was worth three of the new hires and was a great trouble shooter, worth all and more of the .75 per. Alls well that ends well... I salute you, Sir. Thank You..before I was a manager I sold appliances for many year Lakhota. If your mother came in to our store to purchase a washer/dryer, you would want to have me as her sales person, not many of my good friends. If your Mom did two washes a week, never used gentle cycle in her life I would not sell her the pair that was designed for the woman who's life revolved around her laundry, yes there are thousands like that. There are thousands who just use hi speed too, and while they know they should for the betterment of the clothes, the other features, if there are six in a family, all she is trying to do is keep them in clean cloches and rarely if ever will use those other cycles and temperatures. A large enough with a few cycles , thats what she will get from me, and if she goes to one of my fellow guys and gals, many , to many will walk out paying double what they should with gadgets never to be turned on. I made a damn good living doing that too by the way, my way.
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Post by lakhota on May 28, 2011 22:20:23 GMT -5
You apparently fail to recognize the game being played by Cub Foods and the contractors. Jose would have likely been working for whichever contractor was awarded the contract. His best hope would likely have been with one of the higher bidders. However, what remains unknown is how much labor Carlson had built into his bid - he may be skimming his workers.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on May 28, 2011 22:26:33 GMT -5
I'm of mixed feelings on this one. While I feel it's unthinkable that Jose hasn't received a raise in 9 years, I also find it incredible that he hasn't learned the language of the country he's chosen to live in for 9 years. Perhaps, if Jose would put himself out to learn the language, he could receive promotions, raises, or even a better position ... if he's in this country legally. If he's not, he needs to take care of that little problem, as well. Then, he won't be as easy to take advantage of.
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Post by lakhota on May 28, 2011 22:32:44 GMT -5
Jose is likely an undocumented worker. Cub Foods can ignore that little problem by letting the contractor hire undocumented workers.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 28, 2011 22:42:01 GMT -5
Jose is likely an undocumented worker. Cub Foods can ignore that little problem by letting the contractor hire undocumented workers. There ya go, they know he is thus they can save a few bucks which ads up and if caught pay the fine, go out of business, reform, come back again, and rebid the contract. Aint American business great?
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Post by lakhota on May 28, 2011 22:43:56 GMT -5
Jose is likely an undocumented worker. Cub Foods can ignore that little problem by letting the contractor hire undocumented workers. There ya go, they know he is thus they can save a few bucks which ads up and if caught pay the fine, go out of business, reform, come back again, and rebid the contract. Aint American business great? Exactly.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on May 28, 2011 22:51:26 GMT -5
Jose is likely an undocumented worker. Cub Foods can ignore that little problem by letting the contractor hire undocumented workers. As I said, I suspect the same. Now that Jose is making noise, he's liable to find himself investigated as to his status in this country. He really needs to take some responsiblity for this mess, as well. He could have done more in 9 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2011 22:53:00 GMT -5
Cub Foods and Carlson are using a common loophole to wash their hands of any responsibility to the worker.
Loophole? Loophole? I don't see that it's in any way a loophole. He doesn't work for that company. I'll say that one more time because some here didn't get it. He doesn't work for that company. So why would that company have anything to do with his pay. His pay is set by the company that he works for & that's the company that protesters should be picketing against.
Why aren't the protesters picketing against the company that he actually works for, simple, they aren't a company that sells to the public so not a lot of pressure can be put on them. If I were the food company I would DEMAND a new worker because he obviously won't be doing as good a job when he's weak with hunger. Also I wouldn't want him fainting while working because he could fall & hurt himself & then sue me. Sorry but he owns this problem because of his actions.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 28, 2011 23:02:13 GMT -5
Deleted due to content.
Tennesseer/Moderator
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on May 28, 2011 23:04:09 GMT -5
I am just finishing a contract for a government agency that works on the same premise. They accepted a bid from the lowest project manager and they in turn hired the lowest bidders for construction work. Most on the job spoke little or no English. So if the government can do this why cannot the subs for cubs do the same thing? Why are there none protesting at the government jobs. They want to go hungry let em.
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Post by lakhota on May 28, 2011 23:14:20 GMT -5
Jose may not speak good English, but I gather he's no fool. He knows exactly what may come down on him. This may just be his last harrah before returning home to Mexico.
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Post by lakhota on May 28, 2011 23:33:21 GMT -5
Walmart hired independent contractors to clean their stores. The contractors routinely employed undocumented immigrants to do the cleaning. The federal government took the position that the megacompany was legally responsible for the widespread use of store cleaning staff without work permission. Although Walmart contested the charges, they agreed to pay an $11 million fine and change their practices. www.napagrowers.org/PDF/immigrationlawreform.pdf
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