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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 19:21:35 GMT -5
Now TX is giving it a shot- Texas Moves to Crack Down on Cities Protecting Illegal Immigrants Published May 10, 2011 | FoxNews.com Four months after Gov. Rick Perry put out an urgent request to wrap up a bill cracking down on cities providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants, the Texas House passed it Monday night, advancing it to the state Senate, which is expected to approve it and send it to Perry's desk. Under the bill, police officers in so-called "sanctuary cities" will be able to question detained suspects about their immigration status even if their bosses disapprove. The term "sanctuary cities" is used to describe places where local officials refuse to enforce federal immigration laws and undocumented workers are free to seek jobs, housing or local government services without fear of deportation. The bill doesn't go as far as Arizona's requirement that police check people's immigration status, but it prohibits cities or police departments from telling officers not to enforce immigration laws. Cities that fail to comply would relinquish state grant funds. Read more: www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/10/texas-moves-crack-cities-protecting-illegal-immigrants/#ixzz1LzyDPjhs**All these states keep trying, all doing it different than AZ, all trying to find SOME way to help their state, but it just keeps getting shut down over and over. The bill is not even signed yet, but I am sure the suits are ready to be filed.**
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on May 10, 2011 19:31:39 GMT -5
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on May 10, 2011 19:34:11 GMT -5
In my profession I see many Spanish American workers. Some speak great English, some barely any. I always wonder, are they illegal?
Then I notice their work ethic. All are hard dedicated workers regardless of the job status. If they were white or black, would I still wonder about their status? Then, I say to myself, maybe it just doesn't matter whether they are legal or not. They are just trying to make a living........... And of course, I do know it matters whether they are legal or not, but I do sympathize for them.
There but for the Grace of God, go I.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 19:34:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 19:38:33 GMT -5
Not that all are bad, but I sympathize more for the ones waiting patiently in line to get in and join their spouses legally. Yes, I do know someone that happened to. Tough situation all the way around. I am thinking the ones that do things right, rather than take the criminal method of entry just may turn out to be better additions to the country, because it means more to them.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on May 10, 2011 19:49:00 GMT -5
Not that all are bad, but I sympathize more for the ones waiting patiently in line to get in and join their spouses legally. Yes, I do know someone that happened to. Tough situation all the way around. I am thinking the ones that do things right, rather than take the criminal method of entry just may turn out to be better additions to the country, because it means more to them. You are correct!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 19:50:42 GMT -5
I have been a "there but for the grace of God go I" 12 stepper for over half my life, and have some pretty firmly embedded ideas such as doing the next right thing, and helping yourself before you can expect others to help you. I would never sneak in to another country and demand they take care of my family and give me the same perks as people that have worked and paid taxes for a lifetime have. Nor would I ask another country to change anything to accommodate my needs. That seems wrong to me. NOR would I ever put my children in a position of being criminals by MY criminal behavior.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 19:52:46 GMT -5
Caught me talking about you again, eh, Sweet?? LOL-- I do it all the time! You are my 100% perfect poster girl for what LEGAL immigration means!!!! EXACTLY what we need our immigrants to be.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 10, 2011 19:58:34 GMT -5
In my profession I see many Spanish American workers. Some speak great English, some barely any. I always wonder, are they illegal? Then I notice their work ethic. All are hard dedicated workers regardless of the job status. If they were white or black, would I still wonder about their status? Then, I say to myself, maybe it just doesn't matter whether they are legal or not. They are just trying to make a living........... And of course, I do know it matters whether they are legal or not, but I do sympathize for them. There but for the Grace of God, go I. I'm the child of a legal immigrant. Dad has followed every rule ever presented to him in his almost 40 years of residency here in the US. I've always held the opinion that we should ensure that those in need get what they need, but it frosts my ass that people coming in illegally can circumvent the rules and get what they need anyway. I also flinch when I hear someone speaking a language other than English, and I ask myself the same question. is it right? no. is it conditioning to our current environment? absolutely.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 10, 2011 20:02:06 GMT -5
NOR would I ever put my children in a position of being criminals by MY criminal behavior. for this. can I ask how you feel about the DREAM Act? there are many illegals in this country that do not share your feelings about involving their children in their own illegal activities. personally, I feel that the kids were not to blame, and should be given clemency and a path to citizenship. I've discussed this on other threads, but it seems to be a valid question for this thread now.
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Post by ty on May 10, 2011 20:12:41 GMT -5
Great idea.But as Napolitano found out after she battled with Bush for fencing there,it is mucho costly to maintain. It is cut and destroyed on a daily basis. I like the idea of high voltage fencing. ;D What about landmines. They work.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 20:34:36 GMT -5
Another 1st generation immigrant, chiver?? AMEN!!!! Thank your parents for me for being good people. My in-law kids, 3 different ones, are 3rd generation Mexican immigrant families. Awesome people- good for the country, good for my family.
The kids----tough call. Think of all the things that should have happened to those kids before they grew up...... HOW did they get in school without BCs?? My kids are 35-19, and I had to show a certified copy of their BC to enroll all 5 of them. Did these kids ever work? Fast food or something? Do they have fake ID? BC? SS#? HOW did this even happen? While I sympathize, I cannot support ANY kind of amnesty until the borders are secure, and they are not. Secure the borders and let's begin the conversation. Shame on those parents for the laws they broke, the lies they told, to now have adult kids that are not citizens.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on May 10, 2011 21:06:12 GMT -5
Caught me talking about you again, eh, Sweet?? LOL-- I do it all the time! You are my 100% perfect poster girl for what LEGAL immigration means!!!! EXACTLY what we need our immigrants to be. thank you krickitt.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on May 10, 2011 21:10:09 GMT -5
NOR would I ever put my children in a position of being criminals by MY criminal behavior. for this. can I ask how you feel about the DREAM Act? there are many illegals in this country that do not share your feelings about involving their children in their own illegal activities. personally, I feel that the kids were not to blame, and should be given clemency and a path to citizenship. I've discussed this on other threads, but it seems to be a valid question for this thread now. If these kids are given clemency, and once they become citizens, they will be able to sponsor their illegal parents to become legal residents. This was a part of the DREAM Act. This will only encourage more and more immigrants to enter our country illegally along with their children.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 22:18:54 GMT -5
President GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved Published May 10, 2011 | FoxNews.com ......................But Republicans said Obama wasn't telling the whole story about border security. Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, said Mexican cartels have increased their presence inside the U.S., the data on spillover crime and violence is "underreported" and that between 70 and 90 percent of Texas' 1,200-mile border with Mexico is still not under operational control. "Before we start talking about reforming our immigration policy we need to prioritize our national security and gain operational control of the border," he said in a statement. "Despite the president's rhetoric that he has gone 'above and beyond' to secure the border, this mission is not accomplished." Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Texas, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, said, "It is ironic that President Obama would travel so close to the border and still be so far from reality. It is clear President Obama is in full campaign mode, but his words do not match his record. He continues to ignore the facts."........................................ Read more: www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/10/obama-urges-congress-pass-immigration-reform/#ixzz1M0hIp0wl
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 10, 2011 22:35:51 GMT -5
for this. can I ask how you feel about the DREAM Act? there are many illegals in this country that do not share your feelings about involving their children in their own illegal activities. personally, I feel that the kids were not to blame, and should be given clemency and a path to citizenship. I've discussed this on other threads, but it seems to be a valid question for this thread now. If these kids are given clemency, and once they become citizens, they will be able to sponsor their illegal parents to become legal residents. This was a part of the DREAM Act. This will only encourage more and more immigrants to enter our country illegally along with their children. hmmm....yes and no. the Act limits the people that can benefit from it to those that are well-documented (by school records and such) as having been here when the Act passes. any new illegals have no claim to the Act.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 1:03:55 GMT -5
With all the murders in Juarez I would LOVE to know where he got his audience for this photo-op campaign speech.
Tear down the fence?? The one he lies and says is almost done?? Which side of the border is he speaking on?
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 1:22:40 GMT -5
..mistake
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 11, 2011 1:35:00 GMT -5
"hmmm....yes and no. the Act limits the people that can benefit from it to those that are well-documented (by school records and such) as having been here when the Act passes. any new illegals have no claim to the Act."
Even though the act only applies to current illegals, the word will still get out and it will still encourage illegal immigration. ANY form of clemmency will encourage illegal immigration.
I don't support any form of amnesty or clemmency for illegals. It is a crime and should be dealt with harshly. Any illegal should be subject to immediate deportation with nothing more than the clothes on their back, period end of story.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 13:06:42 GMT -5
Harsh, but true.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 13:08:48 GMT -5
townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/05/10/obama_finally_visits_us-mexico_borderKatie Pavlich Obama Finally Visits U.S.-Mexico Border President Obama laid out his plan for amnesty comprehensive immigration reform today in El Paso, Texas, saying illegal immigrants make good democrat voters immigrants are the way to expand the middle class, make America more competitive on a global level and said immigration reform is an economic imperative, which it is considering illegal immigration costs Arizona and California over $12 billion per year. The President did what was expected by lumping all immigrants together and failed to distinguish the difference between the two, in fact, Obama went out of his way to make sure Americans believed their was no difference as he referenced immigrants from different countries coming to America and seeing Lady Liberty. It was a reminder of a simple idea, as old as America itself. E pluribus, unum. Out of many, one. We define ourselves as a nation of immigrants – a nation that welcomes those willing to embrace America’s precepts. That’s why millions of people, ancestors to most of us, braved hardship and great risk to come here – so they could be free to work and worship and live their lives in peace. The Asian immigrants who made their way to California’s Angel Island. The Germans and Scandinavians who settled across the Midwest. The waves of the Irish, Italian, Polish, Russian, and Jewish immigrants who leaned against the railing to catch that first glimpse of the Statue of Liberty. And I think of the naturalization ceremonies we’ve held at the White House for members of the military, which have been so inspiring. President Obama said the fence was now "basically complete." This declaration is completely false. The fence along the southern border in total equals 670 miles. The entire southern border is 2000 miles long, which is nowhere near, "basically complete." On top of a meager border fence, the February 2011, Government Accountability Office report shows "1120 southwest border miles have not yet achieved operational control." Also, according to Sheriffs working and living on the U.S.-Mexico border, Obama's assertion that his administration has done it's part to enforce the border is laughable. Well, over the past two years we have answered those concerns. Under Secretary Napolitano’s leadership, we have strengthened border security beyond what many believed was possible. They wanted more agents on the border. Well, we now have more boots on the ground on the southwest border than at any time in our history. The Border Patrol has 20,000 agents – more than twice as many as there were in 2004, a build up that began under President Bush and that we have continued. They wanted a fence. Well, that fence is now basically complete. So, we have gone above and beyond what was requested by the very Republicans who said they supported broader reform as long as we got serious about enforcement. Obama took credit for confiscating 64 percent more weapons than ever before. Well, that's what happens when the federal government sends thousands of guns into Mexico in the first place through Operation Fast and Furious under the Obama Justice Department and ATF, of course it becomes easier to confiscate more guns when you put more into an area to begin with. Obama also called again for the passing of the DREAM Act which failed in the Senate during the previous lame duck session. As a refresher, the DREAM Act if passed would allow children of illegal immigrants to gain citizenship if they go to college or join the military. Or as Obama put it, "Stop punishing children for their parents' mistakes." Obama asked both sides to avoid playing politics with the issue in order to get to the next election, which was ironic considering the odds of completing immigration reform in the short time remaining during his first term are slim, making his speech today look solely like a political move. That’s one reason it’s been so difficult to reform our broken immigration system. When an issue is this complex and raises such strong feelings, it’s easier for politicians to defer the problem until after the next election. And there’s always a next election. So we’ve seen a lot blame and politics and ugly rhetoric. We’ve seen good faith efforts – from leaders of both parties – fall prey to the usual Washington games. On another note, Obama asked the audience if he needed to build a moat on the border to make republicans happy. There is already a moat on the border Mr. President, it's called the Rio Grande. This was the first visit by Obama to the U.S.-Mexico border despite being invited numerous times by local officials in border states to do so.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 13:11:58 GMT -5
Anyone interested in this issue watch for Katie's articles on Townhall. She graduated from U of A in Tucson last year, had a regular radio spot here for her college years where she related her college "experiences", and is sharp on border/illegal immigration issues. Tucson was thrilled when she got hired by Townhall. She still checks in with us on radio. Very good gal.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 11, 2011 13:19:29 GMT -5
"hmmm....yes and no. the Act limits the people that can benefit from it to those that are well-documented (by school records and such) as having been here when the Act passes. any new illegals have no claim to the Act." Even though the act only applies to current illegals, the word will still get out and it will still encourage illegal immigration. ANY form of clemmency will encourage illegal immigration. I don't support any form of amnesty or clemmency for illegals. It is a crime and should be dealt with harshly. Any illegal should be subject to immediate deportation with nothing more than the clothes on their back, period end of story. actually no, there is language in the proposed Act that spells out that it's a one-time thing, and that anyone benefiting from it needed to be here before it passed. anyone coming in later wouldn't be able to benefit from it. you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I happen to agree with you as far as adults are concerned. the kids didn't ask to be brought here. to many of them, this country is the only home they know. these kids speak better English than some of the posters on this board, in fact.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on May 11, 2011 13:25:19 GMT -5
Latest killings on Falcon Lake reveal Texas border violenceMay 10th, 2011 A shootout between Zetas and Mexican marines on an island surrounded by the notoriously deadly Falcon Lake Sunday was only the most recent event in the lake's bloody history. Falcon Lake, which is intersected by the Texas-Mexico border, was the tragic scene of the shooting of an American man while his wife looked helplessly on. Americans Tiffany and David Hartley were jet-skiing on the Mexican side of the lake when unidentified gunmen approached on a boat and opened fire. David fell beneath the waves of the dangerous lake after several bullets ripped into his flesh. Wife Tiffany has not seen her husband since. That incident brought Falcon Lake to national attention in October of 2010 The lead investigator into the Hartley case was murdered, his head turned over to Mexican authorities. Now, this Sunday Mexican marines discovered a camp of Zeta Cartel drug dealers. The drug traffickers opened fire first, according to reports from the Mexican Navy. Marines returned fire, killing 12 of the Zetas. Sadly, a Marine was also lost in the exchange. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=news&cd=3&ved=0CEIQqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.examiner.com%2Flaw-enforcement-in-wichita-falls%2Flatest-killings-on-falcon-lake-reveal-texas-border-violence&ei=ydLKTeiLA4SesQO_vpWhAw&usg=AFQjCNHCPCXy3PzefzfAJnc1-iHJoZE2Nw
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 13:26:30 GMT -5
But, as Dems on the board often point out-- look what happened when Reagan granted amnesty. Now here we are--- again. No more amnesty until their are REAL fences and troops along the border, like OTHER countries do. To grant ANY amnesty with open borders is just opening the floodgates for the next round. Since when do illegals care about the laws? We can SAY whatever, but they keep pouring in.
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Post by jarhead1976 on May 11, 2011 13:28:56 GMT -5
If Obama's lips are moving he is LYING!
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 13:41:39 GMT -5
That lake is a real dangerous place, and a very weak spot in our security. SO many Americans still believing the talk about Mexico is just hype, and it is still safe to go to border towns. Some of them are dead now. Crying shame that we get the garbage from Mexico, and can no longer enjoy the advantages of living on the border. In AZ Puerto Penasco (Rocky Point) is a place we love to go. Many own beach homes there. NOW we risk being pulled over by bandits on the road from the border to Rocky Point. They pretend to be cops and rob people. Some people have even disappeared, assumed dead. A warning went out last year to Arizonans that if we get pulled over on the way to Rocky Point to give them what they want, do not resist, with the note that people had gone missing... No WAY I'm going to Rocky Point. BUT-- there are some people that don't believe in the border issues. If they want to risk their lives, fine, not me. Even flying in and going to resort towns is dangerous now. Shootout in.. where... Acapulco??.... just recently. Bad place, Mexico. Getting worse. Tourist industry dying, more illegals sneaking in to try to stay alive.
During Spring Break for the college Mexico beefed up security on the road to Rocky Point, so the kids would not get killed. No trouble that I heard of. Why can't they do that all the time? What-- they call a truce on high tourist travel days???
WHY terrorists far away and not the terrorists next door that are directly affecting our way of life, our economy, our safety?? Oh, yeah, because the gov't wants it that way.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 11, 2011 18:45:55 GMT -5
"actually no, there is language in the proposed Act that spells out that it's a one-time thing, and that anyone benefiting from it needed to be here before it passed. anyone coming in later wouldn't be able to benefit from it."
yes, you are correct that the DREAM act would be a one time only thing. However you have to think broader. Even though it's a one time thing, it still sets a precedent and sends a message that if the problem gets bad enough the government will cave and grant amnesty. That message is that if you come here illegally and wait 10, 15, 20 or so years, that the government will grant you amnesty. That's not the message we should be sending people. As I said, illegal immigration is a crime, we rarely pardon other crimes, so why should this one be different?
I will say this about the DREAM act, it's so stringent it probably wouldn't apply to many people.
As an aside, one of the things that really gets under my skin in this debate (not you chiver, but just in general) is the term "undocumented persons." It makes it sound like it's a simple clerical error that they're here. Call it for what it is, "illegal."
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 18:57:52 GMT -5
phenoix-- it drove me crazy yesterday when Obama kept referring to "immigration"--- which is NOT THE ISSUE!!! If these politicians can't even say the word illegal there is not a chance they will work to fix it.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 11, 2011 19:23:58 GMT -5
"actually no, there is language in the proposed Act that spells out that it's a one-time thing, and that anyone benefiting from it needed to be here before it passed. anyone coming in later wouldn't be able to benefit from it." yes, you are correct that the DREAM act would be a one time only thing. However you have to think broader. Even though it's a one time thing, it still sets a precedent and sends a message that if the problem gets bad enough the government will cave and grant amnesty. That message is that if you come here illegally and wait 10, 15, 20 or so years, that the government will grant you amnesty. That's not the message we should be sending people. As I said, illegal immigration is a crime, we rarely pardon other crimes, so why should this one be different? I will say this about the DREAM act, it's so stringent it probably wouldn't apply to many people. As an aside, one of the things that really gets under my skin in this debate (not you chiver, but just in general) is the term "undocumented persons." It makes it sound like it's a simple clerical error that they're here. Call it for what it is, "illegal." that drives me nuts too - just call a spade a spade. I make sure I specify that Dad is a green-card carrying immigrant when I get myself involved in any discussions about this stuff. given the overall leaning of my political views, most people expect me to have the exact opposite opinion on this topic. go figure. so, back to the DREAM Act. IMHO, this is different than amnesty in general because it's intended for use by people that came here as children. they did not come here by their own decision, and most of them don't know any other home than here. a fair percentage of them are "true Americans" in that they speak only English. you are absolutely right that it is strict enough that there aren't too many people that are even eligible to take advantage of it - that was exactly the point. I pointed out on the original thread for the DREAM Act way back when - my area in MA is approaching crisis mode with illegals. our flavor is largely Brazilian, but there's plenty of variety too. one of the Boston newspapers did a story on the valedictorian of some HS closer to Boston than where I live (it's escaping me at the moment). this kid was Colombian, I think. he spoke no Spanish at all, and had a full ride waiting for him to Harvard, MIT, or something of that prestige....except he couldn't take it because he couldn't prove his status. to add to the problem, his whole family was then hit with deportation proceedings. the paper did a follow-up a few months later, after he'd spent some time in Colombia(?) trying to adjust. he'd totally withdrawn into himself because he couldn't really communicate with anyone but the family that was deported with him, including some younger anchor baby siblings. he really didn't have any options for jobs because of the language barrier, and there weren't any English universities close enough for him to continue his education. to me, that's wrong. this kid did everything right that a kid should do, didn't know he was illegal, and he gets screwed out of a pretty nice life that he built for himself. I realize it started with an illegal entry, but that wasn't his choice. hell, he never knew about it. I'm not saying that we should pass the DREAM Act without also locking down the borders, but I think we are doing ourselves a great disservice by just casting off these kids. not to sidetrack, but a lot of the anti-abortion argument is "what if you kill the kid that would grow up to cure cancer?" um....some of these kids want to go into medicine, to law, to engineering. these would be productive members of society, I believe. <chiver steps off soapbox>
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