djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 13:57:22 GMT -5
please tell me i am wrong.
i want to be told that my fears are baseless and that everything will be fine.
here is what i expect to happen next week:
the GOP will win several state legislatures and ram through reforms that basically end democracy in those states. that will make the next presidential election very difficult for Democrats to win, if not impossible. it will only get MORE difficult after 2024.
in addition, the GOP will tie up many many contests in dispute. they will also run roughshod over the House and get a bunch of crazy ass conspiracy trials, which will help solidify their support, and make a case for unfair elections.
the entire country will be put on pause for 2 years while we wait for the NEXT crisis. Trump will run for and probably win the GOP nomination. if he does, we can expect 2024 to be 1000x worse than 2020.
this ruinous alliance of grifters and the far right is beyond dangerous to the Republic. it is fatal, imo.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 14:01:02 GMT -5
oh, and disputing elecitons is a tactic. if you can get people RILED UP enough about the outcomes, then fascist can waltz right in and destroy their respective governments. Miller's new "organization" has been blowing up my phone all week about Left Wing Racism: www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/us/politics/radio-ads-trump-allies.htmlthese ads are utterly disgusting.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 14:13:45 GMT -5
PPS- if you think my posts are unhinged and unwelcome, let me know. i can stop posting.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Nov 5, 2022 14:15:28 GMT -5
PPS- if you think my posts are unhinged and unwelcome, let me know. i can stop posting. Oh simmer down.😵💫
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 14:16:30 GMT -5
PPS- if you think my posts are unhinged and unwelcome, let me know. i can stop posting. Oh simmer down.😵💫 no, seriously. this board is a graveyard. i don't want that to be MY fault. if you think i am nuts, say so. but MOSTLY- if you think that there is some hope for America out there, show me. not feeling it, right now.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Nov 5, 2022 14:19:00 GMT -5
please tell me i am wrong.
i want to be told that my fears are baseless and that everything will be fine.here is what i expect to happen next week: the GOP will win several state legislatures and ram through reforms that basically end democracy in those states. that will make the next presidential election very difficult for Democrats to win, if not impossible. it will only get MORE difficult after 2024. in addition, the GOP will tie up many many contests in dispute. they will also run roughshod over the House and get a bunch of crazy ass conspiracy trials, which will help solidify their support, and make a case for unfair elections. the entire country will be put on pause for 2 years while we wait for the NEXT crisis. Trump will run for and probably win the GOP nomination. if he does, we can expect 2024 to be 1000x worse than 2020. this ruinous alliance of grifters and the far right is beyond dangerous to the Republic. it is fatal, imo. I do not find these speculations of yours to be that outlandish. I guess we have to wait and see how bad it gets. I have a dear friend here active in Women’s demo orgs and she keep being all positive about Roevember. I keep reminding her of my 2010 prognostications, in 2009, which had her screaming at me. In November 2010 she apologized.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 14:34:58 GMT -5
ok. one vote for (against) putting the cart before the horse. anyone else?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Nov 5, 2022 14:46:40 GMT -5
I think there is danger ahead, but I am not yet convinced we are screwed. The outcome matters, and you have outlined the worst case scenario. There is another one where the results are mixed, and we muddle along for a while. The repubs try to do some things, and the courts repudiate them, or they do some really egregious things(like make dramatic changes to medicare) where the swing voters turn against them and they really lose.
I may be too optimistic, but I do not think we are there yet. A few more elections, and we may be. Then I will live in my blue bubble, hope they really slash tax rates, and wait to see what the Red states do to compensate. Maybe people will then vote with their feet. Or the country implodes, splits into 4-5 different countries, and we live with China being the dominant power in the world. I hopefully will be too senile or dead to see what becomes of that scenario.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 14:50:06 GMT -5
ok, two votes. thanks. and thanks for fleshing out some detail. it helps.
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 14:52:19 GMT -5
side note: the Freedom House, which is a very right wing survey, has criticized us repeatedly for our corruption. i think the corruption (money in politics) is the root of most of what we are seeing, including the Left Wing Racist ads i am getting from Miller. until THAT gets reformed (and McCain was a big proponent of this) we are probably not going to fix things.
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Post by Opti on Nov 5, 2022 15:00:59 GMT -5
ok. one vote for (against) putting the cart before the horse. anyone else? I am worried, but I am not funded enough to donate to places that need help. The midterms are tough because it is a state's rights event that unfortunately affects all of us federally. I do not know what is going to happen and my worry meter for myself is already too high ... so I am going to think good thoughts and deal with whatever comes. I do think that we have the ability to come out stronger, however, I don't know when and where that will happen. On the plus side the movie Till was made and those of us who believe in equality and opportunity for all have not changed our minds. The gullible are being swayed and have kept themselves in a constant state of fear. The latter is bad for health so we might outlast them. Former Governor Whitman of NJ has started a political organization for former GOPers who feel the Republican party has lost its way. It has. They cannot even see they are the Nazis and Taliban of modern times they say they hate. Nike cut ties with a promising black athlete who could not figure out how to not say anit-semitic remarks nor realize the former size of his platform and apologize. For every crazy embraced by the rabid right there is often someone else taking it on the chin for acting in similar ways. If we give up hope and the will to fight, we are lost. I think that's what Europe does better than we do. French people protest and expect to be heard. They don't give up fighting if there are setbacks.
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Post by Opti on Nov 5, 2022 15:05:28 GMT -5
side note: the Freedom House, which is a very right wing survey, has criticized us repeatedly for our corruption. i think the corruption (money in politics) is the root of most of what we are seeing, including the Left Wing Racist ads i am getting from Miller. until THAT gets reformed (and McCain was a big proponent of this) we are probably not going to fix things. There is corruption in politics. It happens on both sides and billionaire dark money donors did fund the take down of democracy in 2016. Some of them weren't all that happy with what they had bought, so they did not all bankroll Trump in 2020, and of those that did many gave him less. Russia and China are still setting their social media and other hackers on us to corrupt our elections and sway US voters. It is bad enough when there are Americans like Bannon who do not deserve to be here, try to destroy our country, IMO it is worse when we do not root out foreign influences like Russia. Kind of scary to me that Putin has devolved to simplistic bad propaganda like Trump on his own people. I wonder what will happen when he dies and more realize they've been lied to.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 15:08:10 GMT -5
side note: the Freedom House, which is a very right wing survey, has criticized us repeatedly for our corruption. i think the corruption (money in politics) is the root of most of what we are seeing, including the Left Wing Racist ads i am getting from Miller. until THAT gets reformed (and McCain was a big proponent of this) we are probably not going to fix things. There is corruption in politics. It happens on both sides and billionaire dark money donors did fund the take down of democracy in 2016. Some of them weren't all that happy with what they had bought, so they did not all bankroll Trump in 2020, and of those that did many gave him less. Russia and China are still setting their social media and other hackers on us to corrupt our elections and sway US voters. It is bad enough when there are Americans like Bannon who do not deserve to be here, try to destroy our country, IMO it is worse when we do not root out foreign influences like Russia. Kind of scary to me that Putin has devolved to simplistic bad propaganda like Trump on his own people. I wonder what will happen when he dies and more realize they've been lied to. this is why i think it needs to be severely limited. Democrats are not effective opponents to the takedown because of this.
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Post by swamp on Nov 5, 2022 15:26:40 GMT -5
I don’t think you’re wrong, but I’m trying not to think about it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 15:28:04 GMT -5
i am guessing that is why this board has gotten so quiet. this is a dark moment.
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Post by busymom on Nov 5, 2022 15:44:24 GMT -5
This really is a dark moment in our history. I'm just praying we get through it, without becoming either a divided country or a fascist nation. Neither option is very appealing.
With all of the stories my parents told me about what happened in the years prior to WWII, I'm glad they're not alive to see this, as they'd either be angry, or totally stressed out.
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Post by teen persuasion on Nov 5, 2022 17:35:01 GMT -5
i am guessing that is why this board has gotten so quiet. this is a dark moment. There is so much noise out there, so much dis-information and outright lies, polls with results all over the place. That means nobody has a good read on how things are going to lean - it could literally be a blowout in either direction, or dead tied - nobody knows. So we are waiting, and watching...and it might be a long wait, because the people with common sense know the results won't be clear immediately, and many will use the delays and trickling numbers to bolster their claims of fraud (if they are losing). And some of us are using that waiting time to watch the trainwreck of Twitter unfold..
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 5, 2022 17:40:56 GMT -5
Don't think you are wrong, DJ.
As for trump running in 2024: had Trump conceded and acknowledged Biden fairly won the 2020 election and remained quietly in the background like other past presidents for a few years he might have had a shot of winning the 2024 election.
BUT trump did not going silently into the background. American got to see the true trump in all his immature, lying and criminal behavior. And trump has continued his deplorable behavior to date.
I would expect if trump runs and who ever is the Democratic Party candidate that the Democratic Party candidate would not only receive the same amount of votes as Biden did in the 2020 election but exceed that number by several million votes. And those extra votes will come from not only more . Independent voters but from Republican voters who had more than enough of trump's behavior before, during and after the 2020 election. Trump would lose by an even larger margin of votes.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 17:48:32 GMT -5
i like your optimism. but presidents are not elected on popular vote. how do you reconcile that?
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Post by Opti on Nov 5, 2022 17:50:17 GMT -5
This really is a dark moment in our history. I'm just praying we get through it, without becoming either a divided country or a fascist nation. Neither option is very appealing. With all of the stories my parents told me about what happened in the years prior to WWII, I'm glad they're not alive to see this, as they'd either be angry, or totally stressed out. We are not the only country dealing with this issue. It has hit some countries in Europe and is worse in places you'd expect like Russia and China. Maybe someone could invent conservative Prozac, for those people whose paranoia of the other gets extreme.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 17:58:01 GMT -5
are you suggesting something, Opti?
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 5, 2022 17:59:07 GMT -5
i like your optimism. but presidents are not elected on popular vote. how do you reconcile that? More votes-a couple more states? Trump is not as popular with voters (overall) as he would like us to think.
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Post by busymom on Nov 5, 2022 18:02:57 GMT -5
This really is a dark moment in our history. I'm just praying we get through it, without becoming either a divided country or a fascist nation. Neither option is very appealing. With all of the stories my parents told me about what happened in the years prior to WWII, I'm glad they're not alive to see this, as they'd either be angry, or totally stressed out. We are not the only country dealing with this issue. It has hit some countries in Europe and is worse in places you'd expect like Russia and China. Maybe someone could invent conservative Prozac, for those people whose paranoia of the other gets extreme. It wasn't just in Germany prior to WWII either. It's like a disease, hitting a bunch of different countries all at once. I'll never understand why some folks think fascism is a good idea.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 18:04:22 GMT -5
We are not the only country dealing with this issue. It has hit some countries in Europe and is worse in places you'd expect like Russia and China. Maybe someone could invent conservative Prozac, for those people whose paranoia of the other gets extreme. It wasn't just in Germany prior to WWII either. It's like a disease, hitting a bunch of different countries all at once. I'll never understand why some folks think fascism is a good idea. it is how they are built. strong parent paradigm. the US is VERY susceptible to this.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 18:04:44 GMT -5
i like your optimism. but presidents are not elected on popular vote. how do you reconcile that? More votes-a couple more states? Trump is not as popular with voters (overall) as he would like us to think. ok. thanks. Ohio? Florida?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 5, 2022 18:48:03 GMT -5
More votes-a couple more states? Trump is not as popular with voters (overall) as he would like us to think. ok. thanks. Ohio? Florida? Waaaaayyyyy too soon.
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Post by teen persuasion on Nov 5, 2022 18:49:11 GMT -5
This is what gives me hope for the future - this is not the first, or second, video I have seen on Twitter this week at Texas colleges:
Look at all those students waiting in long lines to VOTE!
I was trying to count people in line, and lost count somewhere over 200 as it sped up.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 19:24:10 GMT -5
i think there are THREE factors that are making me cynical:
1) 2016. need i say more? 2) complete lack of faith in young voters to turn out. i can point to the data. i won't. 3) the polls.
i would rather just not watch the polls any more, because every day, the position of Democrats deteriorates. i am too mathy to just ignore this stuff, but i need to also recognize that the polls were better when early voting started. in other words, some of the BETTER polling is already baked into the results.
all i can do is try to hope, but as you can tell from the OP, i am having trouble with that.
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Post by pulmonarymd on Nov 5, 2022 20:16:23 GMT -5
I am dreading the results. There are too many stupid and racist people here, far more than I ever thought. I hope that it is better than I expect. But I think this is going to be a slow motion train wreck and not a fatal crash. I still think there is time to prevent your worst fears.
Maybe I am too optimistic. I am an upper middle class white male. Very little negative is going to happen to me. I am sorry for those who are not in my position. Life will likely get worse for them if you are correct. But if people vote against their interest, there is nothing we can do. Too many people don’t vote, and we are making it more difficult yo vote. Things do not look good, but we have been here before. If this is the end of our American experience, oh well, we deserve what we get
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2022 21:34:32 GMT -5
i am sorry to be such a debbie downer. i hope for the best. truly. but i fear for the worst.
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