djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 2, 2020 2:10:04 GMT -5
you sound like that cry baby Anthony Fauci <sarcasm off>
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Nov 2, 2020 6:25:03 GMT -5
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oped
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Post by oped on Nov 2, 2020 6:37:48 GMT -5
How about the fact that we still have no idea the long term impact of this disease? Death is not the only negative outcome people are experiencing.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 2, 2020 7:03:23 GMT -5
How about the fact that we still have no idea the long term impact of this disease? Death is not the only negative outcome people are experiencing. 22 year old was on TV last night, probably a news station, and she has some heart damage from Covid.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 2, 2020 9:44:28 GMT -5
In Trump world, if you have a problem like the virus, and you fire all the people who say the virus is a problem, the problem goes away. All Trump has to do is defund the CDC and fire all the scientists (or at least the ones that keep harping on about the damn virus) and 'poof' like magic, no more virus. As Jared says, Trump needs to take this virus back from the doctors, and bring it into the magical world of positive thinking. Rounding the corner, people! Rounding the corner!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 2, 2020 11:14:29 GMT -5
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Nov 2, 2020 12:11:48 GMT -5
How about the fact that we still have no idea the long term impact of this disease? Death is not the only negative outcome people are experiencing. There was an article on the Wall Street Journal yesterday, how the virus has long term effects. There are so many unknown factors that it is scary. www.wsj.com/articles/doctors-begin-to-crack-covids-mysterious-long-term-effects-11604252961Nearly a year into the global coronavirus pandemic, scientists, doctors and patients are beginning to unlock a puzzling phenomenon: For many patients, including young ones who never required hospitalization, Covid-19 has a devastating second act. Many are dealing with symptoms weeks or months after they were expected to recover, often with puzzling new complications that can affect the entire body—severe fatigue, cognitive issues and memory lapses, digestive problems, erratic heart rates, headaches, dizziness, fluctuating blood pressure etc.etc.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 2, 2020 12:15:44 GMT -5
How about the fact that we still have no idea the long term impact of this disease? Death is not the only negative outcome people are experiencing. 22 year old was on TV last night, probably a news station, and she has some heart damage from Covid. My co-worker's 17 year old grandson was normal and healthy. He sas hospitalized for 5 weeks and they think the damage to his heart is permanent. His lungs are jacked too. They are still damaged 2 months later, but doctors are hopeful they will return to "normal" over time. That is a fucking nightmare!
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steff
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Post by steff on Nov 2, 2020 12:18:35 GMT -5
Many are dealing with symptoms weeks or months after they were expected to recover, often with puzzling new complications that can affect the entire body—severe fatigue, cognitive issues and memory lapses, digestive problems, erratic heart rates, headaches, dizziness, fluctuating blood pressure etc.etc. Welcome to my world. Severe fatigue, breathing issues, fluctuating blood pressure, heart palpitations, light headedness, dizziness, massive water weight gain & unexplained rashes.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 2, 2020 19:20:40 GMT -5
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justme
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Post by justme on Nov 2, 2020 23:13:38 GMT -5
Do you mean the vaccines would be useless or just the data they're collecting in the study or? Not sure what "variables" means in this case.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 2, 2020 23:42:06 GMT -5
Do you mean the vaccines would be useless or just the data they're collecting in the study or? Not sure what "variables" means in this case. It seems to me that the big interest is in developing a robust antibody response. I have only heard that one of the 4 vaccines in trial are looking at T cell responses.
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justme
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Post by justme on Nov 3, 2020 0:34:26 GMT -5
Do you mean the vaccines would be useless or just the data they're collecting in the study or? Not sure what "variables" means in this case. It seems to me that the big interest is in developing a robust antibody response. I have only heard that one of the 4 vaccines in trial are looking at T cell responses. And the two don't go hand in hand so one could get antibodies but not have the t cell response?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Nov 3, 2020 6:47:39 GMT -5
It seems to me that the big interest is in developing a robust antibody response. I have only heard that one of the 4 vaccines in trial are looking at T cell responses. And the two don't go hand in hand so one could get antibodies but not have the t cell response? Correct. You can get a robust response in one, both, or neither. Impossible to predict, and difficult to know which will be effective. Reason why saying “we will just make a vaccine” is simplistic. This stuff is complicated
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 3, 2020 13:58:28 GMT -5
And the two don't go hand in hand so one could get antibodies but not have the t cell response? Correct. You can get a robust response in one, both, or neither. Impossible to predict, and difficult to know which will be effective. Reason why saying “we will just make a vaccine” is simplistic. This stuff is complicated Yeah, this. Damned west coast. There were cues that the antibody response was not going to be the holy grail that the vaccine makers think it is going to be. I kind of got that idea when they were talking about how antibody responses only stuck around for a few months, then totally disappeared. For example, I got chicken pox at 6. 55 years later, I still have an antibody titer. Otherwise, using the plasma convalescent serum would be a slam dunk as treatment, it's not. Otherwise, people would not get reinfected, they do. There ARE ways of getting a more robust T cell response, but they're pretty unpalatable. We used to use injecting very near the lymph nodes, conjugating the protein to a hapten (another, more immunogenic protein) AND using adjuvant. All of these produce additional risks and side effects into the population if introduced in a vaccine.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Nov 3, 2020 14:54:44 GMT -5
Correct. You can get a robust response in one, both, or neither. Impossible to predict, and difficult to know which will be effective. Reason why saying “we will just make a vaccine” is simplistic. This stuff is complicated Yeah, this. Damned west coast. There were cues that the antibody response was not going to be the holy grail that the vaccine makers think it is going to be. I kind of got that idea when they were talking about how antibody responses only stuck around for a few months, then totally disappeared. For example, I got chicken pox at 6. 55 years later, I still have an antibody titer. Otherwise, using the plasma convalescent serum would be a slam dunk as treatment, it's not. Otherwise, people would not get reinfected, they do. There ARE ways of getting a more robust T cell response, but they're pretty unpalatable. We used to use injecting very near the lymph nodes, conjugating the protein to a hapten (another, more immunogenic protein) AND using adjuvant. All of these produce additional risks and side effects into the population if introduced in a vaccine. Or the live attenuated virus like we do with the varicella vaccine. Not sure I would be willing to sign up for that right now.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 3, 2020 14:59:56 GMT -5
Yeah, this. Damned west coast. There were cues that the antibody response was not going to be the holy grail that the vaccine makers think it is going to be. I kind of got that idea when they were talking about how antibody responses only stuck around for a few months, then totally disappeared. For example, I got chicken pox at 6. 55 years later, I still have an antibody titer. Otherwise, using the plasma convalescent serum would be a slam dunk as treatment, it's not. Otherwise, people would not get reinfected, they do. There ARE ways of getting a more robust T cell response, but they're pretty unpalatable. We used to use injecting very near the lymph nodes, conjugating the protein to a hapten (another, more immunogenic protein) AND using adjuvant. All of these produce additional risks and side effects into the population if introduced in a vaccine. Or the live attenuated virus like we do with the varicella vaccine. Not sure I would be willing to sign up for that right now. Yeah.....that would be a hard no for me too.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Nov 3, 2020 17:43:03 GMT -5
We only need one good vaccine......... or one good therapeutic....to hit the virus hard.
There are loads of vaccines in the pipeline (with different vectors)........... and even more therapeutics undergoing testing.
Something is going to work.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Nov 3, 2020 17:47:44 GMT -5
We only need one good vaccine......... or one good therapeutic....to hit the virus hard. There are loads of vaccines in the pipeline (with different vectors)........... and even more therapeutics undergoing testing. Something is going to work. You don’t know that. There are plenty of diseases that do not have a treatment. Yes, odds are we will find something. But it has been 9 months and we still do not have a real treatment.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 3, 2020 18:06:09 GMT -5
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 3, 2020 19:00:05 GMT -5
We only need one good vaccine......... or one good therapeutic....to hit the virus hard. There are loads of vaccines in the pipeline (with different vectors)........... and even more therapeutics undergoing testing. Something is going to work. The diseases that are fought with a predominantly T cell immune response usually do NOT have an effective vaccine. I know how we needed to inject animals to elicit T cell response. None of the vaccines do it.
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spartyparty
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Post by spartyparty on Nov 4, 2020 14:38:00 GMT -5
Herd immunity will require about 70% of the population to have gotten this. So in a country of 330 million, thats about 240 million of us, give or take. Assume 4p million of us have had it. So another 200 million infections. Assume a 0.5% mortality. Another 1 million deaths. If 5% need to be hospitalized, 10 million hospitalizations. If there are about 100k cases a day, that happens over 7 months. Every scared now? At the rate we're going, in my county, a year from now, everyone will have had it. If we keep it up, it could take less than a year. Then the question becomes, what's quicker, getting the vaccine, or getting covid?
I also happen to live in a county that is skewed young. 25% of the population is 18 or under; 14% is 65+.
As of now, there are no deaths in the 0-18 crowd.
The current mortality rate is .003% (49 deaths out of almost 16,000 cases...incase my math is bad). So, within that year that we have everyone having it, 1200 (give or take) additional folks will die, and most of the deaths will come from the 60+ category. 10% of the deaths comes from the 30-39 crowd and the 50-59 crowd (no deaths for 40 year olds). As heartless as it is to say, I am not scared for myself or my nuclear family. Because 1) we are being prudent and 2) we are still young 3) we're a healthy lot.
I am worried about my extended family, because of their age. I have ceased to get scared about people that are being stupid. I have enough on my plate. And honestly, what good does it do to get worried about things I cannot control. I cannot make other families mask up, cease travel, or anything like that. Nobody is going to correct the math here? 49/16000 is 0.3% (have to multiple by 100 to get the percentage), so the number for your county suggests that it is 3 times as deadly as the flu (at this point in time).
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