laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 23, 2020 21:31:28 GMT -5
That 180,000 SO FAR. You have about 450 deaths a day happening. That will be about 60,000 more by the dnd of the year. So you're looking at 250,000by the end of the year. If the numbers don't go up because of new waves.
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oped
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Post by oped on Aug 23, 2020 21:33:37 GMT -5
No we have about 900-1000. Weekends are slow but typically The last few weeks there are 1100-1300 days to make up for it.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Aug 23, 2020 21:35:30 GMT -5
Indiana has been having a lot of 1000 new case days.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 23, 2020 21:36:32 GMT -5
No we have about 900-1000. Weekends are slow but typically The last few weeks there are 1100-1300 days to make up for it. Then my numbers are low. Make it about 300,000 by the end of the year.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 23, 2020 21:37:19 GMT -5
Indiana has been having a lot of 1000 new case days. I was talking about actual deaths.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 23, 2020 21:40:19 GMT -5
i think your 300k estimate is accurate. we might have that by election day. it really depends on how well we adapt to social distancing and wearing masks.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 23, 2020 21:42:38 GMT -5
Ok, I will present some arguments as I like to play devil's advocate. 3. More people probably died this year from cancer, car crashes, being shot, Alzheimer's, or diabetes. Why hasn't the media spent a tenth of the time on those? I'd rather you just answer honestly than play the devil's advocate. when I ask a question, I REALLY want to know. I don't want you to toy with me, and I am not toying with you or anyone else, here.
cancer will kill 600k+ this year. and it doesn't get as much press because there is no specific cause of cancer. there has been a 30 year campaign against smoking, with some efficacy. I am not sure how many deaths it has prevented.
38,000 people per year die in car crashes. about the same as an average flu year. we don't talk about it because it is considered acceptable to lose 1% of our population to live somewhat normal lives here, I guess. the number is about the same for gunshot deaths.
Alzheimer's kills over 100k each year, so we are getting close on that one. it's pretty damned serious, and I think we should talk more about it than we do. but I think the reason we don't is that we kinda expect something to get us when we get old- but this is a particularly nasty something.
Diabetes deaths are about 80k per year. it probably deserves more attention.
part of the reason that this gets more press is that it is TRULY preventable. if we simply stayed indoors for a month, it would be GONE. because we are basically volunteering to kill 1000 Americans per day so that we can have a sense of normality is utterly selfish and immoral, imo. the same cannot be said about any of the other diseases mentioned. they are not driven by selfishness in the way this one is.
The various forms of cancer have been in the news for years. The medical industry and scientists are always working to find cures for it. The same holds true for diabetes I and II along with alzhrimer's disease. Always in the news and the medical industry and others are working on cures or means to stop it before it becomes a medical problem. Covid-19 was unknown until the first of the year. In the U.S. the president dismissed it as a hoax and said those 15 cases would be gone and that would be the end of it. The president also said it would go away when warm weather returned. It has not. The president also suggested disinfectants might be injected into our bodies to clean out the virus. There is more, much more, the president got wrong. As for holding the next administration to the same scrutiny which was given to trump and his administration, trump has set a very low bar for the next administration to surpass. Let us not forget that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 23, 2020 21:43:29 GMT -5
Justify deaths. Nothing Trump does is a failure. How certain am I? This week my father, a rabid fox junky who has been telling me all along its no big deal and who doesn't believe the numbers anyway told me its good son isn't going back to Philly because its become a hellhole of rioting and murder (rates are up to almost 2007 levels, at 247... in a city where 1800 have died of Covid but THAT doesn't matter...) And an acquaintance sent me a video of which I could only watch a few seconds... not making it past where the truth of Covid 19 as Certificate of Vaccination ID-AI and the numerology of corona adding up to 666 was explained... I read this week that the current largest growing group spreading Qannon conspiracies is MOM groups... There are fucking wackado. justify deaths. justify deaths.
ok, let me ask a different way: acceptable by what standard?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 23, 2020 22:13:46 GMT -5
Justify deaths. Nothing Trump does is a failure. How certain am I? This week my father, a rabid fox junky who has been telling me all along its no big deal and who doesn't believe the numbers anyway told me its good son isn't going back to Philly because its become a hellhole of rioting and murder (rates are up to almost 2007 levels, at 247... in a city where 1800 have died of Covid but THAT doesn't matter...) And an acquaintance sent me a video of which I could only watch a few seconds... not making it past where the truth of Covid 19 as Certificate of Vaccination ID-AI and the numerology of corona adding up to 666 was explained... I read this week that the current largest growing group spreading Qannon conspiracies is MOM groups... There are fucking wackado. justify deaths. justify deaths.
ok, let me ask a different way: acceptable by what standard?
A standard of, "What was possible."
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 23, 2020 23:12:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I was definitely off on those numbers. Sorry and thanks for providing the links. [img src="https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/smile.gif" class="smile" alt=" " src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png"] As a Republican, there hasn't been much of anything to be proud of these last four years. It has been shameful to see a 2-year old and a bunch of spineless lemmings in office "leading" the country. Starting in January, I think it is likely that the Democrats will have the Presidency and the majority of the Senate and the House. This will mean that Democrats could be responsible for every single decision coming from the federal government for at least two years. I hope that you are as critical of your own party as you are the opposing party. Well your name almost certainly means that you are a female. If it were not for that I would swear that you are my xH. Back when we were married he would never listen if I gave him directions on how to get where we needed to go. Then, after he got us thoroughly lost he would start yelling and telling me to figure out how to get to our destination. And then (and this is where the comparison comes in) he would get mad at me for not knowing right away where we needed to go next. Just like Obama inherited a failing economy which he turned around but not fast enough, should Bidden win next year most Repubs will sit around complaining how he did not turn things around fast enough.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 23, 2020 23:34:24 GMT -5
No we have about 900-1000. Weekends are slow but typically The last few weeks there are 1100-1300 days to make up for it. Then my numbers are low. Make it about 300,000 by the end of the year. IHME is predicting 309K deaths by Dec 1
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 23, 2020 23:36:21 GMT -5
I think they think "acceptable" means only the old and frail die. I think they think that culling the herd every once in a while is a good thing. It is survival of the fittest and they are the fittest.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Aug 23, 2020 23:49:26 GMT -5
It isn't only the people who will die. It's the people who will have horrible, permanent problems after surviving a bad bout of the virus. Can you say "preexisting conditions"?
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oped
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Post by oped on Aug 24, 2020 4:57:30 GMT -5
justify deaths. justify deaths.
ok, let me ask a different way: acceptable by what standard?
Standard? You insist on metrics which don’t exist anymore... the only standard is what I think, feel and want in this moment... Standard requires an objective reality.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Aug 24, 2020 5:08:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I was definitely off on those numbers. Sorry and thanks for providing the links. [img src="https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/smile.gif" class="smile" alt=" " src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png"] As a Republican, there hasn't been much of anything to be proud of these last four years. It has been shameful to see a 2-year old and a bunch of spineless lemmings in office "leading" the country. Starting in January, I think it is likely that the Democrats will have the Presidency and the majority of the Senate and the House. This will mean that Democrats could be responsible for every single decision coming from the federal government for at least two years. I hope that you are as critical of your own party as you are the opposing party. Well your name almost certainly means that you are a female. If it were not for that I would swear that you are my xH. Back when we were married he would never listen if I gave him directions on how to get where we needed to go. Then, after he got us thoroughly lost he would start yelling and telling me to figure out how to get to our destination. And then (and this is where the comparison comes in) he would get mad at me for not knowing right away where we needed to go next. Just like Obama inherited a failing economy which he turned around but not fast enough, should Bidden win next year most Repubs will sit around complaining how he did not turn things around fast enough. This election year feels eerily similar to the time period of 2008 when the economy was failing. Republicans will all of the sudden start worrying about debt!
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 24, 2020 5:36:08 GMT -5
It is amazing to see this is acceptable. A disease no one knew existed is the third leading cause of death in the US. Just for comparison, pneumonia and influenza cause about 60k deaths. Cancer is not one disease. Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer deaths at about 175k. Since that is acceptable to us, I guess this is too.
What I can’t accept is that it did not have to be this way. With a little care and sacrifice, we could have done better. But I guess we no longer care about our fellow man
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oped
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Post by oped on Aug 24, 2020 5:55:15 GMT -5
The lie was that they ever did, honestly. And somehow they continue to carry that lie along with all the others... its frankly and amazing feat of delusion.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 24, 2020 7:45:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I was definitely off on those numbers. Sorry and thanks for providing the links. As a Republican, there hasn't been much of anything to be proud of these last four years. It has been shameful to see a 2-year old and a bunch of spineless lemmings in office "leading" the country. Starting in January, I think it is likely that the Democrats will have the Presidency and the majority of the Senate and the House. This will mean that Democrats could be responsible for every single decision coming from the federal government for at least two years. I hope that you are as critical of your own party as you are the opposing party. I wasn't very critical of any President until Trump. I didn't even say much about W. I didn't agree, but I also did not pay a lot of attention to the details, and knew I was only privy to limited information. I wasn't super excited about Obamacare, and fussed about it a little - but I can't think of too much else I complained about. I so very hope to go back to that state of mind. So, if I don't participate in a democratic slug fest, it is my natural state, and the odd times were this catastrophe called Trump and McConnell.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 24, 2020 9:19:41 GMT -5
I think they think "acceptable" means only the old and frail die. I think they think that culling the herd every once in a while is a good thing. It is survival of the fittest and they are the fittest. Was a ‘Sacrifice the Weak’ Sign Shown at a COVID-19 ‘ReOpen Tennessee’ Rally?
True. A picture shows a person holding a "Sacrifice the Weak" sign at a rally urging the state of Tennessee to re-start its economy amid COVID-19 lockdown orders. Was a ‘Sacrifice the Weak’ Sign Shown at a COVID-19 ‘ReOpen Tennessee’ Rally?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 24, 2020 9:53:35 GMT -5
I think they think "acceptable" means only the old and frail die. I think they think that culling the herd every once in a while is a good thing. It is survival of the fittest and they are the fittest. It's also hitting people of color particularly hard too. They often have less access to good care and underlying conditions. I'm guessing that those losses are acceptable to a lot of people. Unless that's part of your comment on culling the herd.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 24, 2020 11:05:18 GMT -5
Justify deaths. Nothing Trump does is a failure. How certain am I? This week my father, a rabid fox junky who has been telling me all along its no big deal and who doesn't believe the numbers anyway told me its good son isn't going back to Philly because its become a hellhole of rioting and murder (rates are up to almost 2007 levels, at 247... in a city where 1800 have died of Covid but THAT doesn't matter...) And an acquaintance sent me a video of which I could only watch a few seconds... not making it past where the truth of Covid 19 as Certificate of Vaccination ID-AI and the numerology of corona adding up to 666 was explained... I read this week that the current largest growing group spreading Qannon conspiracies is MOM groups... There are fucking wackado. justify deaths. justify deaths.
ok, let me ask a different way: acceptable by what standard?
I heard (I watched their mouth move saying the words that amounted to these justifications 1.) People die everyday. Covid19 isn't any different than other things that kill you. When it's your time it's your time. Implies that there isn't anything anyone can do about this. 2.) It's killing old people who are close to death - with a side of it's killing people who are getting what they deserve because they are "lazy" and aren't taking care of themselves - they are obese and have diabetes and bad hearts. So, it's their own fault. Implies that there isn't anything anyone can do about this. 3.) It's not killing kids. Kids are immune to it. (yeah, I know, no need to comment on this). Implies that it's not that bad (only people who deserve to die are dying - not innocent kids). And probably the most important reason it's ok that people are dying from Covid19: 4.) In America, scientists said MILLIONS would die - and then 500K would die and then 250K would die. ONLY 180K have died. That's way less than 250K - we're doing a great job! We're winning! That's why it's acceptable to have such a high death rate. We have fewer deaths than "predicted" - it's not that bad.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 24, 2020 11:12:48 GMT -5
Gives us time. I know we can do better. A year from now we can hit 500k easy
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Aug 24, 2020 14:48:45 GMT -5
I think they think "acceptable" means only the old and frail die. I think they think that culling the herd every once in a while is a good thing. It is survival of the fittest and they are the fittest. It's also hitting people of color particularly hard too. They often have less access to good care and underlying conditions. I'm guessing that those losses are acceptable to a lot of people. Unless that's part of your comment on culling the herd. In general saying something affects people of colour more negatively than rich white people makes no impact on Conservatives. It's back to that survival of the fittest thing. These are people that believe that the goal is to conquer the world and they have no ethical problem with that. They believe everyone would do it if the could and basically the losers are just whiners. In their minds they won fair and square. Or not, fair doesn't really matter.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 24, 2020 14:58:13 GMT -5
I think they think "acceptable" means only the old and frail die. I think they think that culling the herd every once in a while is a good thing. It is survival of the fittest and they are the fittest. Was a ‘Sacrifice the Weak’ Sign Shown at a COVID-19 ‘ReOpen Tennessee’ Rally?
True. A picture shows a person holding a "Sacrifice the Weak" sign at a rally urging the state of Tennessee to re-start its economy amid COVID-19 lockdown orders. Was a ‘Sacrifice the Weak’ Sign Shown at a COVID-19 ‘ReOpen Tennessee’ Rally?The people who think that way tend to be the ones who think it’s a hoax or it’s an issue someplace else, not where they live. ( my SIL said she could care less what happens to New Yorkers because they are liberal and live far away) Sometimes you’ll see an article about one of these people who ended up catching the disease (one I remember had a wife who caught and was close to death). Suddenly they are a lot more concerned about the virus. That’s the problem with some people. They don’t think a bad thing will happen to them until it does.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 24, 2020 16:18:41 GMT -5
justify deaths. justify deaths.
ok, let me ask a different way: acceptable by what standard?
A standard of, "What was possible." the US is pretty much the measure of what is possible.
doing nothing gets you Sweden, which is maybe 10% worse in death rate than the US.
so, yeah. if you mean what is possible in terms of MINIMIZING the impact of the virus, you have South Korea.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 24, 2020 16:20:20 GMT -5
Then my numbers are low. Make it about 300,000 by the end of the year. IHME is predicting 309K deaths by Dec 1 they have consistently underestimated the stupid in the US, which is why I think 300k by election day is not out of the question.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 24, 2020 16:23:55 GMT -5
I think they think "acceptable" means only the old and frail die. I think they think that culling the herd every once in a while is a good thing. It is survival of the fittest and they are the fittest. posted without further comment:
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 24, 2020 16:25:23 GMT -5
A standard of, "What was possible." the US is pretty much the measure of what is possible.
doing nothing gets you Sweden, which is maybe 10% worse in death rate than the US.
so, yeah. if you mean what is possible in terms of MINIMIZING the impact of the virus, you have South Korea.
Merica isn't South Korea.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 24, 2020 16:30:21 GMT -5
justify deaths. justify deaths.
ok, let me ask a different way: acceptable by what standard?
I heard (I watched their mouth move saying the words that amounted to these justifications 1.) People die everyday. Covid19 isn't any different than other things that kill you. When it's your time it's your time. Implies that there isn't anything anyone can do about this. 2.) It's killing old people who are close to death - with a side of it's killing people who are getting what they deserve because they are "lazy" and aren't taking care of themselves - they are obese and have diabetes and bad hearts. So, it's their own fault. Implies that there isn't anything anyone can do about this. 3.) It's not killing kids. Kids are immune to it. (yeah, I know, no need to comment on this). Implies that it's not that bad (only people who deserve to die are dying - not innocent kids). And probably the most important reason it's ok that people are dying from Covid19: 4.) In America, scientists said MILLIONS would die - and then 500K would die and then 250K would die. ONLY 180K have died. That's way less than 250K - we're doing a great job! We're winning! That's why it's acceptable to have such a high death rate. We have fewer deaths than "predicted" - it's not that bad. you know what? a lot of this makes sense. a combination of fatalism, survivalism, and a failure to meet the worst case scenario.
got it.
I guess that is what happens when you never look outside your own country for possible solutions to problems.
this thread is really making me negative on America.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 24, 2020 16:30:55 GMT -5
the US is pretty much the measure of what is possible.
doing nothing gets you Sweden, which is maybe 10% worse in death rate than the US.
so, yeah. if you mean what is possible in terms of MINIMIZING the impact of the virus, you have South Korea.
Merica isn't South Korea. pity, that.
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