weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 29, 2019 13:40:33 GMT -5
I worked 80-100 hours a week for a couple of years.
I was so burned out by the end of it that I never wanted to work again.
once my son was born, I got down to 110 hours/payperiod. now I work 21 hours a week. that's enough for me. I wish everyone could work so little. life is more than work. Now imagine doing it as a single parent with 2-3 little kids.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 29, 2019 13:53:07 GMT -5
I worked 80-100 hours a week for a couple of years.
I was so burned out by the end of it that I never wanted to work again.
once my son was born, I got down to 110 hours/payperiod. now I work 21 hours a week. that's enough for me. I wish everyone could work so little. life is more than work. Now imagine doing it as a single parent with 2-3 little kids. yeah. it was tough enough being single, let alone being a single parent. that would be Herculean.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jun 29, 2019 17:30:30 GMT -5
1. 80 hours? AGAIN....how many daycares do you know of which are open at night?
2. at 80 hours a week with a 30 minute commute that leaves 25 hours a week to eat breakfast and dinner (and lunch if you have a none working day)
3. I love how he ignores that a ton of people working over 40 hours are salary and therefore not paid a dime for overtime.
4. That's 2 full time jobs. I guess the kids will just have to raise themselves, cook for themselves, and go to doctors and PTA meetings themselves.
Again - all I see from the Snowflakes is a list of "we can't do because ---" Never any ideas about how you could succeed?
1. If you get your life started before having kids, you don't need daycare. I drove trucks from age 18 to 25, no kids. 2. Commute? Eat? I often got a 4:00A load. I would drive for an hour or so, pull into a truck-stop, have a piece of pie and coffee, and get on with my day. Noon? A grilled cheese and get my thermos filled with coffee. 3. No OT premium, trucking was straight time for the whole 80 hrs. 4. No, not two jobs - one job and lots of hours. And no kids, no PTA meetings. Are you really saying that none of today's young folks are able to step up and do some serious hard blue-collar work to get a head-start? And their boss has to provide 'crying closets' to accommodate their delicate sensibilities?
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 29, 2019 17:39:08 GMT -5
My husband worked hours like that most of his life. I was salaried and busted my butt for no overtime. I would have trained for something different had I known.
Hubs sacrificed his life for work, sure you can do it, do you want to? I killed myself trying to keep everything going. sure we made it, but no time together and now my health is paying for it. That is not life phil that is just working yourself to death. And yes, many do it.
Education helps but getting in the right job helps too. My son is fortunate that he did. He has 40 days of vacation to take after he comes back. He has already told them to not commit him to some long assignment as he can't do it with having to take time off, he used to keep it and take the money. Now he has to take it and with holidays October, November, December isn't going to be much work time. I would have loved to have had something like that, but I didn't do it right.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jun 29, 2019 17:44:03 GMT -5
Phil,
Please list all the states in the union that have $15 minimum wage across the board o as to add a smidgen of validity to your assertion.TYIA
Good point - none. A few states have listed "$15 promises" but no one is actually paying. I had thought that Washington State was paying $15 at McD's last year. But not so.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jun 29, 2019 18:42:20 GMT -5
Phil,
Please list all the states in the union that have $15 minimum wage across the board o as to add a smidgen of validity to your assertion.TYIA
Good point - none. A few states have listed "$15 promises" but no one is actually paying. I had thought that Washington State was paying $15 at McD's last year. But not so.
Not yet so feel free to redo your scenario at the Federal rate of $7.25. Maybe you can even do it without the “snowflake “.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jun 29, 2019 18:49:52 GMT -5
I post those long hrs, because I have done it, Yes the kids did miss me but either that or live a life no having anything. Did I want to no but at the same time I didn't bitch and complain that ooooh we are a wealthy country where is mine boo hoo. Get a grip people if you do it and manage your money life gets better. Even after when I didn't have to do it, I started a side business while working a full time salary job and ran my farm. 120 hrs week was the normal for 14 yrs....time with the kids had them work with me, now they are not some slack ass wimpy young adults whining life is unfair. They put their big girl panties on and move forward.
Welts, as far as single moms which is what you seem to keep pushing I can name several that achieved degrees, worked while in college and raised their kids.
as far as i'm concerned their is nothing wrong with being poor it drives you to do better for yourself. If you stay poor in this country so be it no one else is to blame but you own damn lazy self.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 29, 2019 20:49:22 GMT -5
I post those long hrs, because I have done it, Yes the kids did miss me but either that or live a life no having anything. Did I want to no but at the same time I didn't bitch and complain that ooooh we are a wealthy country where is mine boo hoo. Get a grip people if you do it and manage your money life gets better. Even after when I didn't have to do it, I started a side business while working a full time salary job and ran my farm. 120 hrs week was the normal for 14 yrs....time with the kids had them work with me, now they are not some slack ass wimpy young adults whining life is unfair. They put their big girl panties on and move forward. Welts, as far as single moms which is what you seem to keep pushing I can name several that achieved degrees, worked while in college and raised their kids. as far as i'm concerned their is nothing wrong with being poor it drives you to do better for yourself. If you stay poor in this country so be it no one else is to blame but you own damn lazy self. Just not getting it, are you?
We live in a country where the middle class has been running in place since 1973, while the top 10% has seen nearly constant income gains, and your response to that is to blame the poor for being lazy.
Amazing.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jun 29, 2019 21:03:55 GMT -5
I post those long hrs, because I have done it, Yes the kids did miss me but either that or live a life no having anything. Did I want to no but at the same time I didn't bitch and complain that ooooh we are a wealthy country where is mine boo hoo. Get a grip people if you do it and manage your money life gets better. Even after when I didn't have to do it, I started a side business while working a full time salary job and ran my farm. 120 hrs week was the normal for 14 yrs....time with the kids had them work with me, now they are not some slack ass wimpy young adults whining life is unfair. They put their big girl panties on and move forward. Welts, as far as single moms which is what you seem to keep pushing I can name several that achieved degrees, worked while in college and raised their kids. as far as i'm concerned their is nothing wrong with being poor it drives you to do better for yourself. If you stay poor in this country so be it no one else is to blame but you own damn lazy self. Just not getting it, are you?
We live in a country where the middle class has been running in place since 1973, while the top 10% has seen nearly constant income gains, and your response to that is to blame the poor for being lazy.
Amazing.
You're right I don't get it. Who cares about what others are getting. You make your own way in this world. Middle class is running in place ok so what they are still living good. I dont' care if a CEO gets 600 million a year and the lowest guy gets minimum wage sweeping the floor. Odds are there are many other positions in the company where people are paid a good salary. Its up to the people to earn their way to get there.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 29, 2019 21:32:09 GMT -5
I worked 80-100 hours a week for a couple of years. I was so burned out by the end of it that I never wanted to work again. once my son was born, I got down to 110 hours/payperiod. now I work 21 hours a week. that's enough for me. I wish everyone could work so little. life is more than work. You found the solution, most others have not.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 29, 2019 21:38:54 GMT -5
If you are not gaining ground, you need to look around, find out why, It may not have anything to do with the job,, it maybe your own personal management of your life. I have a friend Ramon, he does not make a lot money, yet he always has money in his pocket, I have another friend, that makes tons of money, yet he is constantly one step ahead of a bill collector some where! It is not how much you make, it is how you manage it once you have it.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 29, 2019 21:51:34 GMT -5
I post those long hrs, because I have done it, Yes the kids did miss me but either that or live a life no having anything. Did I want to no but at the same time I didn't bitch and complain that ooooh we are a wealthy country where is mine boo hoo. Get a grip people if you do it and manage your money life gets better. Even after when I didn't have to do it, I started a side business while working a full time salary job and ran my farm. 120 hrs week was the normal for 14 yrs....time with the kids had them work with me, now they are not some slack ass wimpy young adults whining life is unfair. They put their big girl panties on and move forward. Welts, as far as single moms which is what you seem to keep pushing I can name several that achieved degrees, worked while in college and raised their kids. as far as i'm concerned their is nothing wrong with being poor it drives you to do better for yourself. If you stay poor in this country so be it no one else is to blame but you own damn lazy self. Just not getting it, are you?
We live in a country where the middle class has been running in place since 1973, while the top 10% has seen nearly constant income gains, and your response to that is to blame the poor for being lazy.
Amazing.
On the board, how many are struggling financially?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 30, 2019 11:20:25 GMT -5
Just not getting it, are you?
We live in a country where the middle class has been running in place since 1973, while the top 10% has seen nearly constant income gains, and your response to that is to blame the poor for being lazy.
Amazing.
You're right I don't get it. Who cares about what others are getting. You make your own way in this world. Middle class is running in place ok so what they are still living good. I dont' care if a CEO gets 600 million a year and the lowest guy gets minimum wage sweeping the floor. Odds are there are many other positions in the company where people are paid a good salary. Its up to the people to earn their way to get there. I care what others are getting because we share space. We share the earth, we share a government, we share a grocery store. And if the divide continues to grow, we will share violence. I or my people will likely be the targets. But, if we share a little bit now, maybe we can all live comfortably. Not equally. But create an economy where people in the middle can get what they need and people at the top still ravish in excess. And people at the bottom will not suffer in a cruel way.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 30, 2019 12:31:03 GMT -5
Just not getting it, are you?
We live in a country where the middle class has been running in place since 1973, while the top 10% has seen nearly constant income gains, and your response to that is to blame the poor for being lazy.
Amazing.
You're right I don't get it. Who cares about what others are getting. You make your own way in this world. Middle class is running in place ok so what they are still living good. I dont' care if a CEO gets 600 million a year and the lowest guy gets minimum wage sweeping the floor. Odds are there are many other positions in the company where people are paid a good salary. Its up to the people to earn their way to get there. Interesting philosophy. Because I have a bed to sleep in and food to eat, I need to stop bitching, I guess?
Here is why I care how much others are getting. Every decade in the past century, except for the great depression, the very top economic tier in this country has accumulated more and more wealth, while the other classes slowly lose it. This means that my dad, with a BS degree, was able to support a SAHW and four kids, pay for college for all of them, and have a nice house and good lifestyle. He enjoyed a nice pension and had 3 x more time off than I ever had. All of my siblings and their spouses have worked full time, for jobs (for most of us) that don't have pensions, and due to exponentially rising health care, housing and tuition costs, enjoy either a similar or reduced lifestyle than my parents. I don't know about other middle class parents, but I certainly worry about my son and his wife, and how their children will do, if this century long trend continues.
Even if my own grandkids can work hard and maintain an equivalent lifestyle thirty years from now, how many other kids of their generation will be doing worse? How long can this steadily increasing wealth gap continue, before the lower 90% of the economic spectrum get tired of working so hard and still coming up worse than their parents did, before they get sick of the inequality and thrust us into chaos?
You're thinking too personally. You think you've done well, and that's all that matters. You need to think about how everyone is doing, and how their kids and grandkids will do, if you care anything at all about this country continuing on as a capitalistic democracy.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 30, 2019 12:45:03 GMT -5
Welts, as far as single moms which is what you seem to keep pushing I can name several that achieved degrees, worked while in college and raised their kids.
I keep harping on it because the vast majority of the working poor are single mothers with children.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 30, 2019 12:50:02 GMT -5
You're right I don't get it. Who cares about what others are getting. You make your own way in this world. Middle class is running in place ok so what they are still living good. I dont' care if a CEO gets 600 million a year and the lowest guy gets minimum wage sweeping the floor. Odds are there are many other positions in the company where people are paid a good salary. Its up to the people to earn their way to get there.
Of course you don't care. You're a Republican.You only care about yourself. You don't care if the guy sweeping the floor can get medical care if he gets sick. You don't care if he can afford to keep a roof over his head or keep his family fed.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jun 30, 2019 13:15:42 GMT -5
Real-estate tycoon Donald Trump argued during the Tuesday-night Fox Business Network debate that US wages are "too high," and he didn't back off the next morning when pressed. "We have to become competitive with the world. Our taxes are too high, our wages are too high. Everything is too high. We have to compete with other countries."
The leading Republican presidential candidate raised eyebrows with his initial comment, which was in response to a question about raising the minimum wage.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 30, 2019 15:58:28 GMT -5
Real-estate tycoon Donald Trump argued during the Tuesday-night Fox Business Network debate that US wages are "too high," and he didn't back off the next morning when pressed. "We have to become competitive with the world. Our taxes are too high, our wages are too high. Everything is too high. We have to compete with other countries."
The leading Republican presidential candidate raised eyebrows with his initial comment, which was in response to a question about raising the minimum wage. Work houses and chain gangs used to be cheap sources of labor - and who says a ten year old is too young to earn their keep?
Plenty of ways to get free labor, if you just get rid of those of those pesky labor laws and unions.
Just look at how Trump got Trump Tower built - brought in cheap Polish laborers, paid them so little they slept on the job site, stiffed them on a bunch of their pay, and called ICE to get them deported when the job was over. Make America Great Again!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 30, 2019 17:38:20 GMT -5
Welts, as far as single moms which is what you seem to keep pushing I can name several that achieved degrees, worked while in college and raised their kids.
I keep harping on it because the vast majority of the working poor are single mothers with children. No one put them there except themselves.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 30, 2019 17:41:03 GMT -5
Real-estate tycoon Donald Trump argued during the Tuesday-night Fox Business Network debate that US wages are "too high," and he didn't back off the next morning when pressed. "We have to become competitive with the world. Our taxes are too high, our wages are too high. Everything is too high. We have to compete with other countries."
The leading Republican presidential candidate raised eyebrows with his initial comment, which was in response to a question about raising the minimum wage. Work houses and chain gangs used to be cheap sources of labor - and who says a ten year old is too young to earn their keep?
Plenty of ways to get free labor, if you just get rid of those of those pesky labor laws and unions.
Just look at how Trump got Trump Tower built - brought in cheap Polish laborers, paid them so little they slept on the job site, stiffed them on a bunch of their pay, and called ICE to get them deported when the job was over. Make America Great Again!
Have you ever seen Trump's solid gold toilet? See there is benefit to working those illegals then calling ICE,
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 30, 2019 17:52:00 GMT -5
Because we are losing the middle class. That's what drove this country, a striving and healthy middle class. It will soon be the rich and poor. Most of the people you see in our area with good livings are the old many still with pensions and union health care. The groups coming up are suffering badly, bad credit, junk cars, they will never reach middle class. The ones with degrees for the most part have to leave and go elsewhere to get good jobs. Now they are even bringing in teachers without certifications and degrees per a teacher friend of ours.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 30, 2019 23:55:50 GMT -5
I post those long hrs, because I have done it, Yes the kids did miss me but either that or live a life no having anything. Did I want to no but at the same time I didn't bitch and complain that ooooh we are a wealthy country where is mine boo hoo. Get a grip people if you do it and manage your money life gets better. Even after when I didn't have to do it, I started a side business while working a full time salary job and ran my farm. 120 hrs week was the normal for 14 yrs....time with the kids had them work with me, now they are not some slack ass wimpy young adults whining life is unfair. They put their big girl panties on and move forward. Welts, as far as single moms which is what you seem to keep pushing I can name several that achieved degrees, worked while in college and raised their kids. as far as i'm concerned their is nothing wrong with being poor it drives you to do better for yourself. If you stay poor in this country so be it no one else is to blame but you own damn lazy self. you might be imposing the probabilities of 1973 on 2019.
they don't exist.
it is a different world.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 30, 2019 23:57:53 GMT -5
Welts, as far as single moms which is what you seem to keep pushing I can name several that achieved degrees, worked while in college and raised their kids.
I keep harping on it because the vast majority of the working poor are single mothers with children. No one put them there except themselves. say that to the widow whose husband was killed in Iraq. or the wife whose babydaddy fled, fell ill, or became disabled. and then, there is a place like MS, where you can't abort even if you are raped, according to law.
not every circumstances is choice, OC. sometimes, you are just unlucky.
and if you are unlucky, then what? tough tittie?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 30, 2019 23:59:00 GMT -5
Real-estate tycoon Donald Trump argued during the Tuesday-night Fox Business Network debate that US wages are "too high," and he didn't back off the next morning when pressed. "We have to become competitive with the world. Our taxes are too high, our wages are too high. Everything is too high. We have to compete with other countries."
The leading Republican presidential candidate raised eyebrows with his initial comment, which was in response to a question about raising the minimum wage. i have long known that Trump wants to turn the US into a third world shithole.
what does MAGA stand for again?
edit: it might be good to ask Trump whether he thinks Germany and Japan are competitive. because, if so, their wages and taxes are far higher than ours.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 1, 2019 0:30:39 GMT -5
Making America Grim Again.
trump's new slogan, Keep America Gruesome (Great)
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jul 1, 2019 7:11:02 GMT -5
Yep, luck is some of it. I would have struggled without hubs. Even though I had an education I never made the money he did and had to quit with DD, we would have lived in poverty I think. And some of his was luck too, and we know it. Being in the right place at the right time. So many variables in life that can ruin ones life despite the best laid plans. It's not always because people are lazy.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 1, 2019 7:25:11 GMT -5
No one put them there except themselves. say that to the widow whose husband was killed in Iraq. or the wife whose babydaddy fled, fell ill, or became disabled. and then, there is a place like MS, where you can't abort even if you are raped, according to law.
not every circumstances is choice, OC. sometimes, you are just unlucky.
and if you are unlucky, then what? tough tittie?
The more conservative thinkers on this thread seems to be fixated on the idea that they are doing fine, everyone they know are doing fine, and that the rest of the posters on this board are probably doing fine, therefore, everything is fine.
The more left leaning posters seem to be looking at the big picture - the salary stagnation, the increase in living expenses, the increasing number of kids, women and the elderly living in poverty, the continuous drain of the wealth of the nation into the hands of a very limited number of elites, and speculating, with dread, what the future will hold, if these trends continue.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 1, 2019 8:39:32 GMT -5
Yep, luck is some of it. I would have struggled without hubs. Even though I had an education I never made the money he did and had to quit with DD, we would have lived in poverty I think. And some of his was luck too, and we know it. Being in the right place at the right time. So many variables in life that can ruin ones life despite the best laid plans. It's not always because people are lazy. I think about our luck all the time. We were out of school when the job market was good. My hubs went to law school right before the increase in lawyers, so he didn't have to compete with that crew. He was working in bankruptcy during the 2008 crash, which gave him job security. My company stayed somewhat stable (although I did survive 2 rounds of layoffs because of my particular skill set and a few key people liking me.) Both of my pregnancies were healthy. My kids have had almost no problems (no physical problems, no learning disabilities, no behavior issues, etc ) so we could both work at work, without having to leave for doctors or therapy or whatever. Just one of those things even veers left and things get a lot harder pretty darn fast.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 1, 2019 9:03:29 GMT -5
""Except they aren't getting ahead. They are barely surviving.""
80 hours x $15/hour min wage = $1200/wk = $60,000 gross. When I drove trucks, ages 18 to 25, I made more than min wage (altho I don't recall how much). especially after I switched from gravel trucks to 18-wheelers at age 21. Are you saying that today's millennials can't manage their lives on $60k/year?? Tips: Sleep at YMCAs, eat at bowling alley lunch counters. ""Currently, 35 percent of single women with children live and raise their families in poverty."""
Birth control pills became commonly in use beginning in about 1960, it caused a major cultural shift. Womens' Lib, bra burning, Woodstock, yada. Followed by the women's movement, etc. In many cases, young women openly stated that men were not needed, an anti-man culture. That has resulted in a whole new demographic - single moms. And poverty - single moms are among the poorest in the country. I've seen it in our neighborhood - we built here 45 years ago, many of the girl babies never married, now in their 40's.
OK, now let's look at the real world for too many people. Job #1 - Open shift, Burger Palace, 4 AM- 10: AM, 6 days, 36 hr X 9.00 = $324.00 GROSS Job #2 - Afternoon shift at Squiggly Piggy's, bagging groceries, 12-4, 4 days, 16 hr X 7.25 = 116.00 GROSS Job #3 - Evening/ Sunday at Quick Stop Convenience, 5-10, 3 days, plus 6 AM- 2 PM, 23 hrs @ 9.00 = 207.00 GROSS Total Income - $647.00 / wk GROSS - SS and Med = $597.50 NET, if no state or Fed income tax taken. Getting from supermarket job to convenience job on time requires old junker car to run to make it on time....tenuous. Kid may get sick requiring leaving one or more jobs..... tenuous Worker may get sick....try to work through or lose job.... tenuous How long is it going to take for this person to rise up out of their "situation" by working three jobs and "getting ahead"? Not to mention none of the jobs are required to give any health or other benefits.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 1, 2019 9:44:38 GMT -5
""Except they aren't getting ahead. They are barely surviving.""
80 hours x $15/hour min wage = $1200/wk = $60,000 gross. When I drove trucks, ages 18 to 25, I made more than min wage (altho I don't recall how much). especially after I switched from gravel trucks to 18-wheelers at age 21. Are you saying that today's millennials can't manage their lives on $60k/year?? Tips: Sleep at YMCAs, eat at bowling alley lunch counters. ""Currently, 35 percent of single women with children live and raise their families in poverty."""
Birth control pills became commonly in use beginning in about 1960, it caused a major cultural shift. Womens' Lib, bra burning, Woodstock, yada. Followed by the women's movement, etc. In many cases, young women openly stated that men were not needed, an anti-man culture. That has resulted in a whole new demographic - single moms. And poverty - single moms are among the poorest in the country. I've seen it in our neighborhood - we built here 45 years ago, many of the girl babies never married, now in their 40's.
OK, now let's look at the real world for too many people. Job #1 - Open shift, Burger Palace, 4 AM- 10: AM, 6 days, 36 hr X 9.00 = $324.00 GROSS Job #2 - Afternoon shift at Squiggly Piggy's, bagging groceries, 12-4, 4 days, 16 hr X 7.25 = 116.00 GROSS Job #3 - Evening/ Sunday at Quick Stop Convenience, 5-10, 3 days, plus 6 AM- 2 PM, 23 hrs @ 9.00 = 207.00 GROSS Total Income - $647.00 / wk GROSS - SS and Med = $597.50 NET, if no state or Fed income tax taken. Getting from supermarket job to convenience job on time requires old junker car to run to make it on time....tenuous. Kid may get sick requiring leaving one or more jobs..... tenuous Worker may get sick....try to work through or lose job.... tenuous How long is it going to take for this person to rise up out of their "situation" by working three jobs and "getting ahead"? you can add to the list that there is no health insurance available through jobs 2 and 3, so he has to rely on the Burger Palace for health insurance, or opt into Obamacare, if it is even available where he or she lives.
imagine if this person has children. imagine if he has suitable living arrangements.
what we are talking about here is pretty much what Indonesians face every day, with 10x the pay and 10x the expenses.
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