billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,431
|
Post by billisonboard on Jun 16, 2019 21:26:56 GMT -5
Match the claim to the date: President Donald Trump said Thursday that his administration would have “great health plans” coming out within four weeks. Trump says he will roll out new health care plan in next couple of months May 2018June 2019
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,337
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jun 16, 2019 21:45:11 GMT -5
2015, 2016, 2017 are also possibilities.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,035
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 16, 2019 22:54:59 GMT -5
still waiting for the secret plan to defeat ISIS, and the tax returns.
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,856
|
Post by happyhoix on Jun 17, 2019 6:52:48 GMT -5
Has he started boasting about the 'middle class tax cut' again?
That one got a lot of traction for him in 2018.
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,856
|
Post by happyhoix on Jun 17, 2019 6:56:43 GMT -5
still waiting for the secret plan to defeat ISIS, and the tax returns. On that interview with Stephanopoulos, Trump said he hoped that 'they' DO get his tax returns at some point, because they are really stupendously beautiful tax returns, everyone would love them. (Seriously, he said that).
When Stephanopoulos asked him if he would be releasing his tax returns, Trump said he wouldn't, but he did hope that some day they would get released, because they were such nice tax returns.
There are times I can't figure out what the fuck he means. If he really wanted us to enjoy his fabulous tax returns (and what are fabulous tax returns, anyway? Really nicely typed ones? Does he submit them on gold trimmed printer paper?) why doesn't he just release them? Why be coy?
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,856
|
Post by happyhoix on Jun 18, 2019 9:38:08 GMT -5
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,337
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jun 18, 2019 9:51:41 GMT -5
Add healthcare for the elderly to that list.
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,327
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
Member is Online
|
Post by busymom on Jun 18, 2019 9:59:36 GMT -5
I'm STILL waiting for the great healthcare plan the GOP was sitting on during the Obama Administration. As I suspected, they probably never had one. Sort of like that blank piece of paper our POTUS was holding up on the Mexico deal the other day...
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,362
|
Post by Tiny on Jun 18, 2019 10:14:58 GMT -5
Here's the Great Healthcare plan the GOP promised: www.msn.com/en-us/money/healthcare/trumps-new-health-plan-with-reimbursement-accounts-explained/ar-AAD1z1O Strangely enough it relies on the insurance market place and the ACA - that the GOP was trying to get rid of (and actively damaged in the last 2.5 years) TBH: To me, this plan looks like a great way to screw people working for small businesses and people without jobs while rewarding large companies. This dangling of a promise for healthcare for everyone could backfire in the not so distant future: I can see this being twisted so that only the people working for large, generous, companies will have the money available to get better healthcare (as in it's not just the "membership fee" to get into a clinic so you can then pay out of pocket for services).
|
|
dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
|
Post by dondub on Jun 18, 2019 10:36:45 GMT -5
There is no way the Repo-Cons will have any healthcare plan that doesn't screw over at least 20 million Americans. It's how they roll now.
|
|
Cheesy FL-Vol
Junior Associate
"Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -- Helen Keller
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:13:50 GMT -5
Posts: 6,685
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":""}
|
Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Jun 18, 2019 10:37:58 GMT -5
Farmers are unhappy with the trade war, they are in trouble from flooding, no workers will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jun 18, 2019 12:08:46 GMT -5
I'm STILL waiting for the great healthcare plan the GOP was sitting on during the Obama Administration. As I suspected, they probably never had one. Sort of like that blank piece of paper our POTUS was holding up on the Mexico deal the other day... Here's the great healthcare plan! Buy your drugs from Canada! So much for "Buy American!" Republican lawmakers, led by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, recently voted to pass a proposal to import cheaper, price-controlled drugs from Canada as a way to help its growing population of seniors who can’t afford medications. The plan, which was a key plank of DeSantis’ legislative agenda, still needs to be approved by the federal Health and Human Services Department before it can be implemented. U.S. President Donald Trump, who promised that the Republicans would be “the party of great health care,” supports the proposal. www.ctvnews.ca/world/importing-prescription-drugs-from-canada-could-get-green-light-in-florida-1.4419251
|
|
phil5185
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 15:45:49 GMT -5
Posts: 6,409
|
Post by phil5185 on Jun 18, 2019 12:57:49 GMT -5
"""Income and wealth inequality is now greater in the US than at any time since the 1920's."""
Yes, I hear that a lot. But why are people upset about it? Envy? I've asked this before, still waiting for answers.
If someone gets the education, applies themselves, takes sensible risks, and becomes a wealthy high earner, why is that such a problem for others? Ie, why do people want to take money away from those who earned it and give it to those who didn't? That said, I support the progressive tax model. The high earners pay a much higher marginal tax rate - and most don't complain much?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,035
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 18, 2019 13:10:35 GMT -5
"""Income and wealth inequality is now greater in the US than at any time since the 1920's."""
Yes, I hear that a lot. But why are people upset about it? Envy? I've asked this before, still waiting for answers.
well, let me give you some, then.
income disparity is bad for societies. it creates social unrest. in addition, there is no democracy without economic democracy. the fruits of a republic should be shared equally among citizens. that doesn't mean that everyone earns the same income. it means that when GDP is +X% that household incomes should rise approximately X%. and that is not what has happened since 1973.
if you think this is just opinion, I can demonstrate that it is not. just in case you think this is me waxing about some false notion of "fairness". social inequality is bad for the rich, too. the fact that the rich seem to have forgotten that is troubling.
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,856
|
Post by happyhoix on Jun 18, 2019 13:23:52 GMT -5
"""Income and wealth inequality is now greater in the US than at any time since the 1920's."""
Yes, I hear that a lot. But why are people upset about it? Envy? I've asked this before, still waiting for answers.
If someone gets the education, applies themselves, takes sensible risks, and becomes a wealthy high earner, why is that such a problem for others? Ie, why do people want to take money away from those who earned it and give it to those who didn't? That said, I support the progressive tax model. The high earners pay a much higher marginal tax rate - and most don't complain much?
People are upset because it takes two earners to support a family of four in a middle class lifestyle now. Because unless you're wealthy or upper middle class you're graduating college with debt - gone are the days where a hard working kid could work his way through college and graduate debt-free. Also gone are the days when you knew your lifestyle was a little bit better than your parents, and your kids will have a little bit better lifestyle than you did. Now, between day care costs, housing costs, and educational costs, you're doing good to stay at the same income bracket as your parents did, especially when one unexpected serious medical event could bankrupt you at anytime.
If the middle class keeps running hard and can barely keep up with their parents, or gradually fall back into lower middle class or poverty, while they see the 10% always seeming to benefit the most from corporate rules, tax breaks, and tax loopholes, they start to resent the unfairness of it.
When you have 90% of your population resenting the unfairness of it, and 10% oblivious to that fact, you have a problem.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,371
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 18, 2019 14:40:20 GMT -5
Because all those poor people overthrowing our government and stock market would really mess with my life. We need to keep them complacent.
|
|
phil5185
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 15:45:49 GMT -5
Posts: 6,409
|
Post by phil5185 on Jun 18, 2019 15:37:24 GMT -5
""well, let me give you some, then. income disparity is bad for societies. it creates social unrest. in addition, there is no democracy without economic democracy. the fruits of a republic should be shared equally among citizens."""
What Disparity is bad because it is bad? And there is no democracy without democracy? LOL - c'mon dj, I was expecting more.
""People are upset because it takes two earners to support a family of four in a middle class lifestyle now. Because unless you're wealthy or upper middle class you're graduating college with debt - gone are the days where a hard working kid could work his way through college and graduate debt-free. Also gone are the days when you knew your lifestyle was a little bit better than your parents, and your kids will have a little bit better lifestyle than you did. Now, between day care costs, housing costs, and educational costs, you're doing good to stay at the same income bracket as your parents did, especially when one unexpected serious medical event could bankrupt you at anytime. If the middle class keeps running hard and can barely keep up with their parents, or gradually fall back into lower middle class or poverty, while they see the 10% always seeming to benefit the most from corporate rules, tax breaks, and tax loopholes, they start to resent the unfairness of it.""
Maybe the Boomers are the anomaly - they are the last ones to 'better' their parents, maybe they did too well. The boomers created high day care costs (by demanding fancy preschool day care), they created high housing costs by demanding mcmansions, they caused high educational costs by sending anyone who could fog a mirror to college and approving the loans thereby putting high demand on schools.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jun 18, 2019 15:39:02 GMT -5
"""Income and wealth inequality is now greater in the US than at any time since the 1920's."""
Yes, I hear that a lot. But why are people upset about it? Envy? I've asked this before, still waiting for answers.
If someone gets the education, applies themselves, takes sensible risks, and becomes a wealthy high earner, why is that such a problem for others? Ie, why do people want to take money away from those who earned it and give it to those who didn't? That said, I support the progressive tax model. The high earners pay a much higher marginal tax rate - and most don't complain much?
Wow! Just as you were unaware that people work 12 hour shifts or 2 jobs,you seem to be unaware that some people CAN'T "get the education and apply themselves." A woman with 2 jobs, whose husband left her, with 3 kids, doesn't have the time or money to go to school. People with intellectual handicaps, mental illnesses, disabilities or addictions are supposed to apply themselves? A kid who grew up with a dad in prison and a junkie mom often has no options to better himself. That's why the wealth gap is so great in the USA. "Not on my dime" Republicans like you don't want to help anyone. Is the air very thin on that high horse of yours, up in the stratosphere?
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,362
|
Post by Tiny on Jun 18, 2019 15:53:05 GMT -5
"""Income and wealth inequality is now greater in the US than at any time since the 1920's."""
Yes, I hear that a lot. But why are people upset about it? Envy? I've asked this before, still waiting for answers.
One of the things with a big enough gap in the inequality - is that if you are a "has" you will need to insulate yourself more from the "have nots" - so MORE gated communities, more "segregation" based on income (not all white people will be in the "has" class), and an even harder time crossing the gap from "poor" to "wealth" or "middle class". LESS freedom for everyone - even the wealthy.
I like not being afraid of my neighbors. When doing or going somewhere new (like go to a community festival in a neighboring suburb) - I like NOT having to first think and figure out "is it safe for me to go there?" Another thing I don't like is having to judge the "clean" people from the "unclean" people or whatever the new euphemism will be. I hate all those whispered code words and all the looking the other way. So, yeah, I'm concerned about how income and wealth inequality effects social and cultural norms. One part of the problem is that some people get shut out of the "wealth"... yeah, they can get an education, get top grades, go to the best schools, be really talented... but they can't escape the stereotype or perception that someone like them ISN"T smart, capable, or is just the token person from their ethnic/religious/whatever background. I don't get why it's "take money away from people who earned it"... I'd love to take money away from you and use it for my own ends!!! Bwhhhaa hhaaa haaa! One of the potential purposes of the Government is that it would use taxes to the BENEFIT of everyone (or nearly everyone). I don't think that government spending that aids or helps people who aren't wealthy is a bad thing. It generally BENEFITS everyone (or nearly everyone) on some level. The fact that you use the loaded phrase "taking money away from those who earned it" pretty much tells me you think you are being robbed or maybe being forced to NOT being able to eat off of disposible 10k gold plates (ie not being able to keep up the jones' even though you have a comfortable life). As far as I can tell... high earners have a really lot of ways to shelter their wealth and manage to NOT pay taxes on all of it. Which is why I often wonder about the whining about "having money taken away from those who earned it!" -- it's like they want to keep even that last penny... why should they have to pay for anything that someone else migh use or benefit from?
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jun 18, 2019 16:00:33 GMT -5
2 hours ago phil5185 said:
"""Income and wealth inequality is now greater in the US than at any time since the 1920's."""
Yes, I hear that a lot. But why are people upset about it? Envy? I've asked this before, still waiting for answers.
Envy? What are you yammering about? People here don't mind paying taxes to give the less fortunate a leg up. I certainly don't. Am I supposed to be envious of people on welfare or the working poor?
High income inequality destabilizes a country and has negative consequences in the long run.
|
|
bean29
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 9,910
|
Post by bean29 on Jun 18, 2019 16:07:15 GMT -5
Farmers are unhappy with the trade war, they are in trouble from flooding, no workers will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Trump may get a pass this year, the harvests will be down this year because a large number of Midwestern Farmers did not get their crops in the ground. So, since they did not plant their fields, they will not need to hire workers to harvest them.
|
|
dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
|
Post by dondub on Jun 18, 2019 18:56:20 GMT -5
"""Income and wealth inequality is now greater in the US than at any time since the 1920's."""
Yes, I hear that a lot. But why are people upset about it? Envy? I've asked this before, still waiting for answers.
If someone gets the education, applies themselves, takes sensible risks, and becomes a wealthy high earner, why is that such a problem for others? Ie, why do people want to take money away from those who earned it and give it to those who didn't? That said, I support the progressive tax model. The high earners pay a much higher marginal tax rate - and most don't complain much?
This has all been explained ad nauseum on this board many times. Even to Phil before. And it's always the same old story about takers and envy. Blah, blah, blah.
Let's try this on for size...as DJ said wages have stagnated since the early 70's. The 90% should subsequently be making way more money, even double or more based on productivity gains. So to say they are takers when their labor is responsible for the wealth creation of goods and services just puts Phil on the side of capital in the centuries old battle of labor vs. capital. Capital has been winning for the last 45+ years as the money has been taken from them and put into the pockets of the 10%. To top that off, the same 10% have now had 3 massive tax cuts beginning with Reagan further enriching them. Just think what a fairer contribution from those wealthy could have created, and did, before this last round since 1973. Health care unrivaled, schools the envy of the world, transpo systems and on and on. Now we just get the POTUS blathering about 'infrastructure' while he does absolutely nothing about it. Healthcare...nothing. Schools? Betsy Devos.
As I have seen it for decades, capital owns the pols who make the laws that benefit the folks that make the massive campaign contributions....both individuals and businesses. Trump's tax cuts, in particular, have greatly benefitted business and the money is flowing even deeper and faster. Citizens United helps hide all the sources. So our elected officials have helped rip off the American people. The real TAKERS are the 10% that have greedily taken more than their share of the pie because of what has happened with wages, union busting etc. Then they have saddled us with tremendous debt which causes the shrinking of government services rinse and repeat.
So the middle class is being destroyed, and Phil is for that, and then whines about fancy daycare. This boomer's daughters went to one at what used to be a local elementary school that was shut down due to lack of funding. It was bare bones and has always struggled to make a go of it.
Until people are PAID this problem will continue and there will be food riots and other social unrest. Mark my words.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,371
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 18, 2019 20:02:07 GMT -5
No matter all the education and application, half our population will always be below average.
Plus, our country has really slipped in that 'everyone can succeed' department. There are many countries that have surpassed us in opportunities for people born into less than ideal circumstances. Because we have vast inequality in education and opportunity, it is harder to move out of your original social strata, especially if you aren't white.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,035
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 18, 2019 21:39:18 GMT -5
""well, let me give you some, then. income disparity is bad for societies. it creates social unrest. in addition, there is no democracy without economic democracy. the fruits of a republic should be shared equally among citizens."""
What Disparity is bad because it is bad? And there is no democracy without democracy? LOL - c'mon dj, I was expecting more.
""People are upset because it takes two earners to support a family of four in a middle class lifestyle now. Because unless you're wealthy or upper middle class you're graduating college with debt - gone are the days where a hard working kid could work his way through college and graduate debt-free. Also gone are the days when you knew your lifestyle was a little bit better than your parents, and your kids will have a little bit better lifestyle than you did. Now, between day care costs, housing costs, and educational costs, you're doing good to stay at the same income bracket as your parents did, especially when one unexpected serious medical event could bankrupt you at anytime. If the middle class keeps running hard and can barely keep up with their parents, or gradually fall back into lower middle class or poverty, while they see the 10% always seeming to benefit the most from corporate rules, tax breaks, and tax loopholes, they start to resent the unfairness of it.""
Maybe the Boomers are the anomaly - they are the last ones to 'better' their parents, maybe they did too well. The boomers created high day care costs (by demanding fancy preschool day care), they created high housing costs by demanding mcmansions, they caused high educational costs by sending anyone who could fog a mirror to college and approving the loans thereby putting high demand on schools.
before the boomers, women worked primarily at home. daycare was for the wealthy.
i know you are not suggesting that women stay at home and care for kids, so you must be simply forgetting how things were.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,035
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 18, 2019 21:41:35 GMT -5
""well, let me give you some, then. income disparity is bad for societies. it creates social unrest. in addition, there is no democracy without economic democracy. the fruits of a republic should be shared equally among citizens."""
What Disparity is bad because it is bad? And there is no democracy without democracy? LOL - c'mon dj, I was expecting more.
i explained why in the next sentence, phil. it creates social unrest. and that is only the beginning of it.
i didn't say "there is no democracy without democracy". look again.
you are skipping over the most important parts of my response, phil, and then mocking me for YOUR mistakes.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,035
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jun 18, 2019 21:47:43 GMT -5
"""Income and wealth inequality is now greater in the US than at any time since the 1920's."""
Yes, I hear that a lot. But why are people upset about it? Envy? I've asked this before, still waiting for answers.
If someone gets the education, applies themselves, takes sensible risks, and becomes a wealthy high earner, why is that such a problem for others? Ie, why do people want to take money away from those who earned it and give it to those who didn't? That said, I support the progressive tax model. The high earners pay a much higher marginal tax rate - and most don't complain much?
if someone gets the education, applies themselves, and takes sensible risks, there is a good chance they will have the same standard of living that their grandparents did.
that is not what anyone wants, phil.
i am not sure what you mean by "taking money away from others that earned it". can you explain that comment? because what i am talking about is labor and management sharing equally in productivity gains. you know, like what happened for 150 years prior to 1973, and has not happened since then?
this might be a good moment to point out that the tax rate is basically flat over $100k. why? because SSI tax falls to 0% even as marginal rates rise. so less money goes into SSI, and more goes into the general coffers. so, yeah, progressive taxation is offset by regressive taxation, and you end up with a flat tax above $100k.
|
|
dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
|
Post by dondub on Jun 18, 2019 22:06:52 GMT -5
Of course there was also a complaint that too many boomer children are going to college too easily and jacking up the cost with student loans ( please explain that one) at the same time commenting on people getting an education and making something of themselves. This is similar to how Trump plays both sides of an issue/non issue.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,371
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 18, 2019 22:26:40 GMT -5
We don't have to do it with taxes. We could change working standards, add mandatory collective bargaining for large conpanies, minimum wage requirements, health care, sick time, etc. Just make it so the people who are working can have a decent standard of living. No taxes on the rich, just demand that companies like WalMart stop using the government welfare system as a subsidy.
|
|
dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
|
Post by dondub on Jun 18, 2019 22:41:14 GMT -5
Yes, wouldn’t it be nice if companies like Wal*Mart had to pay a living wage so 25% of it’s employees wouldn’t need govt. assistance(which is simply corporate welfare which Repo-Cons support while at the same time abhorring it for We The People.)
|
|
phil5185
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 15:45:49 GMT -5
Posts: 6,409
|
Post by phil5185 on Jun 18, 2019 23:36:46 GMT -5
""Of course there was also a complaint that too many boomer children are going to college too easily and jacking up the cost with student loans ( please explain that one)"""
That was mostly a supply and demand issue. In 1948 and thru the 1950s the flood of returning GIs filled the colleges. Shortly after came the societal change that all kids needed to go to college if they were to be successful. So most post-war kids were sent to college by their mostly blue-collar parents - ie, a major longterm bubble of students for multiple decades. So yeah, that decades long flood of students resulted in huge demands (and costs) on universities - classrooms, dorms, instructors. So tuition costs shot up to pay for the new demands. And student loans were invented to meet the higher costs, that new easy money fed the beast. Ever more students, ever higher tuition, ever higher student loans.
|
|