Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 16:02:31 GMT -5
You're preaching to the choir here! I am often floored at the debt people are willing to take on for school, especially for degrees that don't have a great track record for giving a good return on that investment. My kids know that's not how it's going down with them (not with my blessing anyhow), but they also are probably pretty set for having their undergrad paid for. The kids whose parents are clueless about finances and college but make too much for them to get any aid. I do feel for them. So often, it's not until they're in the thick of it and over their heads in debt that they realize they went about it the wrong way. I can't help but judge everyone based on how I was at 18. I had no one to learn from as my mom is a financial train wreck and I was the first person going to college. But I knew I couldn't dig myself into a huge hole before I even started in the world. Not to say I didn't make some bad choices (dropping out for 2 years being one of them!lol).
I realize there is inflation involved so if I take the $130k back to the year I graduated high school it would put me at $64k in debt. Never in a million years would I have taken on that kind of debt and I had a very good career path planned. I didn't think of myself as a child at 18. I was an adult making decisions that would affect the rest of my life.
I'm nothing like I was at 18. I had no idea back then. LUCKILY, tuition at the university was $32/credit and my Pell grant was $2000 which pretty much covered the entire amount. I was even able to make enough at my $6/hour job to buy a house while in college. I was able to learn without drowning. Today, it's freaking nuts. Tuition at the same school is $218/credit, the maximum Pell is $5900 and jobs for out of high school are only paying about $10/hour. Meanwhile, the kids are being told in high school that college is the only answer and instead of helping them come up with creative ways to pay the ridiculous costs, or steering them towards other options like trade school or the military, it's instead offering them all kinds of high interest loans. I'm sorry, but even if you felt like an adult it's hard for a lot of 18 year olds to buck the system. Going to work at the factory down the road because you haven't a dime for college probably doesn't feel like the smart move.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 18, 2018 16:41:47 GMT -5
I can't help but judge everyone based on how I was at 18. I had no one to learn from as my mom is a financial train wreck and I was the first person going to college. But I knew I couldn't dig myself into a huge hole before I even started in the world. Not to say I didn't make some bad choices (dropping out for 2 years being one of them!lol).
I realize there is inflation involved so if I take the $130k back to the year I graduated high school it would put me at $64k in debt. Never in a million years would I have taken on that kind of debt and I had a very good career path planned. I didn't think of myself as a child at 18. I was an adult making decisions that would affect the rest of my life.
I'm nothing like I was at 18. I had no idea back then. LUCKILY, tuition at the university was $32/credit and my Pell grant was $2000 which pretty much covered the entire amount. I was even able to make enough at my $6/hour job to buy a house while in college. I was able to learn without drowning. Today, it's freaking nuts. Tuition at the same school is $218/credit, the maximum Pell is $5900 and jobs for out of high school are only paying about $10/hour. Meanwhile, the kids are being told in high school that college is the only answer and instead of helping them come up with creative ways to pay the ridiculous costs, or steering them towards other options like trade school or the military, it's instead offering them all kinds of high interest loans. I'm sorry, but even if you felt like an adult it's hard for a lot of 18 year olds to buck the system. Going to work at the factory down the road because you haven't a dime for college probably doesn't feel like the smart move. I agree that costs are completely out of control. But there still are smart ways to go about it versus stupid ways. And I highly recommend trades for anyone! I pay out the ass for my contractors. Anyone that thinks a trade is not a good choice has never had to hire a plumber, HVAC or carpenter (or any of the other trades)!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 16:49:59 GMT -5
I'm nothing like I was at 18. I had no idea back then. LUCKILY, tuition at the university was $32/credit and my Pell grant was $2000 which pretty much covered the entire amount. I was even able to make enough at my $6/hour job to buy a house while in college. I was able to learn without drowning. Today, it's freaking nuts. Tuition at the same school is $218/credit, the maximum Pell is $5900 and jobs for out of high school are only paying about $10/hour. Meanwhile, the kids are being told in high school that college is the only answer and instead of helping them come up with creative ways to pay the ridiculous costs, or steering them towards other options like trade school or the military, it's instead offering them all kinds of high interest loans. I'm sorry, but even if you felt like an adult it's hard for a lot of 18 year olds to buck the system. Going to work at the factory down the road because you haven't a dime for college probably doesn't feel like the smart move. I agree that costs are completely out of control. But there still are smart ways to go about it versus stupid ways. And I highly recommend trades for everyone! I pay out the ass for my contractors. Anyone that thinks a trade is not a good choice has never had to hire a plumber, HVAC or carpenter (or any of the other trades)!
Trades are certainly a good choice, but they aren't for everybody . . . just as college isn't for everybody. My son was incredibly book smart. I mean, National Merit book smart. His college was paid for, including room & board, plus he got $2000 a year in spending money per year from an additional scholarship. But he dropped a hammer on his head when he was eight. He had a bunkie light on the bottom of the upper bunk, and there were moths. Yes, he was lying on his back trying to kill moths with a hammer. This is who you want as your carpenter? Lol. I think the world is much, much safer with him becoming a CPA.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 18, 2018 17:00:47 GMT -5
I agree that costs are completely out of control. But there still are smart ways to go about it versus stupid ways. And I highly recommend trades for everyone! I pay out the ass for my contractors. Anyone that thinks a trade is not a good choice has never had to hire a plumber, HVAC or carpenter (or any of the other trades)!
Trades are certainly a good choice, but they aren't for everybody . . . just as college isn't for everybody. My son was incredibly book smart. I mean, National Merit book smart. His college was paid for, including room & board, plus he got $2000 a year in spending money per year from an additional scholarship. But he dropped a hammer on his head when he was eight. He had a bunkie light on the bottom of the upper bunk, and there were moths. Yes, he was lying on his back trying to kill moths with a hammer. This is who you want as your carpenter? Lol. I think the world is much, much safer with him becoming a CPA. I didn't literally mean everyone...in fact, I changed the reply to say anyone. My point was that people tend to look down on trades when in reality, they can make some very, very good money. I am certainly not geared for a trade and neither is my daughter. But for the plenty of people it is a very smart choice. In fact, I went to college with a guy who graduated with an accounting degree. Once he started working he absolutely hated it and went into construction. Years later he is an extremely successful homebuilder who probably does his own books!
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jul 18, 2018 18:44:54 GMT -5
I agree. College isn't for everyone and neither are the trades.
But getting into a trade can be the path to college if that is what a person wants. Trades do make living wages and classes can be taken in the evenings. Two classes a term is tough but doable.
Careful funding planning and you can graduate with little to no debt. Of course your 'college experience' will be non-existent but you will have a debt-free future.
Have a young church friend that looked into college after high school, looked at the potential debt vs payback for her choice of study ……….. and joined the Navy. She is now stationed in S. Korea and having a great time becoming acquainted with other cultures.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 18:57:03 GMT -5
I agree. College isn't for everyone and neither are the trades. But getting into a trade can be the path to college if that is what a person wants. Trades do make living wages and classes can be taken in the evenings. Two classes a term is tough but doable. Careful funding planning and you can graduate with little to no debt. Of course your 'college experience' will be non-existent but you will have a debt-free future. Have a young church friend that looked into college after high school, looked at the potential debt vs payback for her choice of study ……….. and joined the Navy. She is now stationed in S. Korea and having a great time becoming acquainted with other cultures. I think the Armed Forces are a better path to college than the trades. You have to work hard so you are tired. You earn good money so you have no incentive to take courses so you can earn less money initially. Our district has started a Skilled Trades Academy to go along with Law Academy, Engineering Academy, Health Sciences Academy, Finance Academy, etc. They also have a Signing Day when the seniors accept employment. Some of them go on to the community college, but it is to get further training in their trade. This is so exciting to me! I have more than a few students in this college-prep oriented high school that need a real FUTURE.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jul 18, 2018 21:04:05 GMT -5
Our district has started a Skilled Trades Academy to go along with Law Academy, Engineering Academy, Health Sciences Academy, Finance Academy, etc.
What a wonderful idea. Sounds like a lot of other districts would benefit from something like this. Too many high school drop-out existing on welfare and so many jobs unfilled.
Win-win
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 19, 2018 5:17:37 GMT -5
There are also employers like banks who will pay for your college. It took my friend 6 years of working as a teller but she got her degree and became a manager. She also missed the drunken college experience but she’s debt free making good money.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 19, 2018 5:19:30 GMT -5
Not everyone is immature at 18 needing 4 more years to grow up. It’s sad that so many are. In trying to be better parents than we had and make life easier than we had it, we’ve crippled them.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 19, 2018 5:21:16 GMT -5
There are also employers like banks who will pay for your college. It took my friend 6 years of working as a teller but she got her degree and became a manager. She also missed the drunken college experience but she’s debt free making good money. My company provides $5k a year in tuition assistance. We have had several people take advantage of the program over the last several years
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chapeau
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Post by chapeau on Jul 19, 2018 6:30:21 GMT -5
My stepson is not yet 21 and is working as an electrician. He did votech in high school and his boss loves him and is paying for him to complete his required courses for his full electrician’s license. I can’t remember how many more classes/steps he has to go, but he’s managing people my age right now. And on some of his jobs (he doesn’t make prevailing wage at all of his jobs, only the ones for public entities), he makes more per hour than his dad and I combined. But when I met him when he was 9 he was already practically an adult, as far as taking his responsibilities seriously. He was always looking for odd jobs doing stuff for the neighbors, started a lawn mowing business in high school and actually paid taxes on the money so he could start an IRA, bought a used trailer and lawn equipment, etc. He was bored last fall so got a job with one of the food delivery services on the nights he didn’t have class. But trade school has been very, very good to him and he’s on track to FIRE before he’s as old as his dad is now.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jul 19, 2018 12:20:58 GMT -5
SouthernSusana What state are you in?
On the news this morning was an interview with a school district supervisor here in the Phx area. They are redoing one of the high schools and going with the various academies that you mention. But he didn't talk about a Skilled Trade Academy.
In my high school years, forever ago, there were shop classes, home ec classes, business and finance, along with college prep and the arts. This was in the Los Angeles schools in the 1950s. There was also a high school called Manual Arts for the kids that wanted hands on lessons versus all book work.
Wonder what happened?
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coffeegrl
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Post by coffeegrl on Jul 20, 2018 11:36:42 GMT -5
Something else that I didn't see mentioned in here anywhere is that it's not TECHNICALLY "make 120 payments, working in the public sector, and your loans are forgiven." You also have to be working in the public sector on the date that your loans are forgiven. Which can still be several months after your 120th payment, while the application is being reviewed, employment being certified, decisions being made, them getting to your application, etc.
You also have to keep making payments during that application review process.
This is not meant to argue for or against the program, whether it should have limits, if it's right or wrong, etc. I just hadn't noticed either of these things mentioned in the thread, and they are important to remember. It's not like one can make the 120th payment, then the next day go straight to private sector and start making a lot more money. From what I've heard, it's more like 10 1/2 years of working in the public sector. PLUS you still have the payments to make during your application process and review. If you stop making payments because you think, "Well, I made my 120 payments!" then you will go into default on your loans and be denied applying for forgiveness until you catch up and are no longer in default.
Both I and one of my co-workers are hoping we will be able to utilize this program. I'm making sure to read all the paperwork, certify my employment every year (meaning the university I work at fills out a piece of paper saying that yes, I have been working at this institution for X number of years/months), and cross all my t's and dot all my i's. My co-worker thinks that because she sent in one certification form a year ago that she is "in" the program. I keep trying to tell her this is not a program you are "in" or "out" of. The certification forms are to keep your record updated with the government agency that runs the program so that, when your 120 payments are up, they don't have to look back at 10 years of employment history/forms to determine if where you worked qualified. I sent in a form last summer and they said, "Yes, where you are working counts. The X number of payments you have made will count towards the 120." I just took another certification form to HR today to have them verify that yes, I am still working here. When I send this in, they will look at it and go, "Yes, those payments count towards this program." But it does not guarantee that I will be given forgiveness or that the program will even be around when I hit 120 payments.
It's a lot to keep track of and, I bet, there will always be more people than you would think who miss one detail or another and knock themselves out of the program.
Just wanted to provide a little more info I hadn't seen anywhere else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 16:10:25 GMT -5
SouthernSusana What state are you in? On the news this morning was an interview with a school district supervisor here in the Phx area. They are redoing one of the high schools and going with the various academies that you mention. But he didn't talk about a Skilled Trade Academy. In my high school years, forever ago, there were shop classes, home ec classes, business and finance, along with college prep and the arts. This was in the Los Angeles schools in the 1950s. There was also a high school called Manual Arts for the kids that wanted hands on lessons versus all book work. Wonder what happened? I'm in Alabama. What happened? The trades were looked down on as everyone pushed college on their kids. Tech classes became centered on IT, etc. The balance is now swinging the other way. But a training center is a big $$$ investment for an individual district. There's a lot of equipment involved. We've always let kids go to the community college for half-days to get that training, but that put them on the fringes of a college-prep, academy-oriented world. Now we are recognizing that education is not one-size-fits-all.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 20, 2018 16:35:36 GMT -5
SouthernSusana What state are you in? On the news this morning was an interview with a school district supervisor here in the Phx area. They are redoing one of the high schools and going with the various academies that you mention. But he didn't talk about a Skilled Trade Academy. In my high school years, forever ago, there were shop classes, home ec classes, business and finance, along with college prep and the arts. This was in the Los Angeles schools in the 1950s. There was also a high school called Manual Arts for the kids that wanted hands on lessons versus all book work. Wonder what happened? I'm in Alabama. What happened? The trades were looked down on as everyone pushed college on their kids. Tech classes became centered on IT, etc. The balance is now swinging the other way. But a training center is a big $$$ investment for an individual district. There's a lot of equipment involved. We've always let kids go to the community college for half-days to get that training, but that put them on the fringes of a college-prep, academy-oriented world. Now we are recognizing that education is not one-size-fits-all. I can't speak for how things are everywhere, but when I was in HS there were "real classes" and there were "fake classes". Real classes had things you were going to get tested on, teachers held to standards, and tended toward traditional teachings (math, science, English, etc). Anything that wasn't part of the real core curriculum ended up being VERY variable in terms of legitimacy. "Shop" classes tended toward not even really being real classes. I was super interested in things like construction back then because I'd done a little bit helping my dad...but I basically couldn't take the construction class because everyone understood it was a screw-off class that you weren't ever going to do anything other than build a shed the last 2 weeks. I think "shop classes" have long had that reputation as slacker classes, and probably had earned it for the most part. I had the conversation with my plumber other day actually. He knew me in HS, I dated his daughter, he was into a lot of the sports I played. He was asking why I hadn't considered going into the trades. In his mind, I was smart, I understood business concepts back in HS, and I was actually interested in that kind of stuff. To him, that was a perfect configuration for going into the trades, owning your own business, and making a TON of money. The honest truth was that we were a small HS, I was bored easily, so I took the hardest classes I could find that interested me. The hardest class at the time was an Accounting class that only 3 people even signed up for because you weren't going to get a good grade unless you were smart and worked hard. At the time, my mentality was "I can't go into the trades, slackers go into the trades and I'm going to be bored off my ass" primarily based on the classes. Yes, I could have gone out and seen more real-life examples, it just never even crossed my mind. That's how I ended up an accounting major in college...it was the hardest class I had in HS, and I wanted more hard classes. So it's not just offering things. It's offering them the right way (and by extension, it's not creating programs like trade programs just so you can push the dumb kids into it and out of the other curriculum). Our district actually shares a "technical high school" with other districts. They teach trades...but you basically have to be expelled from one of the other schools to get into it (or you have to decide as a parent that you want to send your kid to the school full of kids who have been expelled from other schools). Not a very attractive option.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 19:12:19 GMT -5
I'm in Alabama. What happened? The trades were looked down on as everyone pushed college on their kids. Tech classes became centered on IT, etc. The balance is now swinging the other way. But a training center is a big $$$ investment for an individual district. There's a lot of equipment involved. We've always let kids go to the community college for half-days to get that training, but that put them on the fringes of a college-prep, academy-oriented world. Now we are recognizing that education is not one-size-fits-all. I can't speak for how things are everywhere, but when I was in HS there were "real classes" and there were "fake classes". Real classes had things you were going to get tested on, teachers held to standards, and tended toward traditional teachings (math, science, English, etc). Anything that wasn't part of the real core curriculum ended up being VERY variable in terms of legitimacy. "Shop" classes tended toward not even really being real classes. I was super interested in things like construction back then because I'd done a little bit helping my dad...but I basically couldn't take the construction class because everyone understood it was a screw-off class that you weren't ever going to do anything other than build a shed the last 2 weeks. I think "shop classes" have long had that reputation as slacker classes, and probably had earned it for the most part. I had the conversation with my plumber other day actually. He knew me in HS, I dated his daughter, he was into a lot of the sports I played. He was asking why I hadn't considered going into the trades. In his mind, I was smart, I understood business concepts back in HS, and I was actually interested in that kind of stuff. To him, that was a perfect configuration for going into the trades, owning your own business, and making a TON of money. The honest truth was that we were a small HS, I was bored easily, so I took the hardest classes I could find that interested me. The hardest class at the time was an Accounting class that only 3 people even signed up for because you weren't going to get a good grade unless you were smart and worked hard. At the time, my mentality was "I can't go into the trades, slackers go into the trades and I'm going to be bored off my ass" primarily based on the classes. Yes, I could have gone out and seen more real-life examples, it just never even crossed my mind. That's how I ended up an accounting major in college...it was the hardest class I had in HS, and I wanted more hard classes. So it's not just offering things. It's offering them the right way (and by extension, it's not creating programs like trade programs just so you can push the dumb kids into it and out of the other curriculum). Our district actually shares a "technical high school" with other districts. They teach trades...but you basically have to be expelled from one of the other schools to get into it (or you have to decide as a parent that you want to send your kid to the school full of kids who have been expelled from other schools). Not a very attractive option. Yes, going to the CC college for half-days had that reputation, too. But our district is really going all-in on this. We have an alternative school for the kids you describe. This is state-of-the-art with connections to some major programs. Alabama has done a good job attracting automotive companies like Mercedes and Honda. Welding is one of the most successful programs. They are also putting in the infrastructure for a culinary arts program. I'm not saying that our district has the latest and the greatest. But it is a step in the right direction to acknowledge that all students aren't going to college. And to do it on a scale equivalent with the Law Academy, the Engineering Academy, the Health Science Academy, etc. is very heartening.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jul 22, 2018 11:07:15 GMT -5
There are also employers like banks who will pay for your college. It took my friend 6 years of working as a teller but she got her degree and became a manager. She also missed the drunken college experience but she’s debt free making good money. I never understand the thinking that you need to do the four years right now without any plan. I got an Associate degree while working part-time, then started working full-time in my chosen profession while I took night/online classes to get my Bachelor degree. It took me about seven years to go from Associate to Bachelor but I graduated with 7 years of work experience and zero debt since I paid as I went (even without tuition reimbursement from my employers). And since I started at entry-level jobs in my profession when I earned my Associate degree, I find I have a much deeper understanding of my field than people who graduated with a Bachelor and got a higher level job right away.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jul 22, 2018 11:13:43 GMT -5
I'm in Alabama. What happened? The trades were looked down on as everyone pushed college on their kids. Tech classes became centered on IT, etc. The balance is now swinging the other way. But a training center is a big $$$ investment for an individual district. There's a lot of equipment involved. We've always let kids go to the community college for half-days to get that training, but that put them on the fringes of a college-prep, academy-oriented world. Now we are recognizing that education is not one-size-fits-all. I can't speak for how things are everywhere, but when I was in HS there were "real classes" and there were "fake classes". Real classes had things you were going to get tested on, teachers held to standards, and tended toward traditional teachings (math, science, English, etc). Anything that wasn't part of the real core curriculum ended up being VERY variable in terms of legitimacy. "Shop" classes tended toward not even really being real classes. I was super interested in things like construction back then because I'd done a little bit helping my dad...but I basically couldn't take the construction class because everyone understood it was a screw-off class that you weren't ever going to do anything other than build a shed the last 2 weeks. I think "shop classes" have long had that reputation as slacker classes, and probably had earned it for the most part. I had the conversation with my plumber other day actually. He knew me in HS, I dated his daughter, he was into a lot of the sports I played. He was asking why I hadn't considered going into the trades. In his mind, I was smart, I understood business concepts back in HS, and I was actually interested in that kind of stuff. To him, that was a perfect configuration for going into the trades, owning your own business, and making a TON of money. The honest truth was that we were a small HS, I was bored easily, so I took the hardest classes I could find that interested me. The hardest class at the time was an Accounting class that only 3 people even signed up for because you weren't going to get a good grade unless you were smart and worked hard. At the time, my mentality was "I can't go into the trades, slackers go into the trades and I'm going to be bored off my ass" primarily based on the classes. Yes, I could have gone out and seen more real-life examples, it just never even crossed my mind. That's how I ended up an accounting major in college...it was the hardest class I had in HS, and I wanted more hard classes. So it's not just offering things. It's offering them the right way (and by extension, it's not creating programs like trade programs just so you can push the dumb kids into it and out of the other curriculum). Our district actually shares a "technical high school" with other districts. They teach trades...but you basically have to be expelled from one of the other schools to get into it (or you have to decide as a parent that you want to send your kid to the school full of kids who have been expelled from other schools). Not a very attractive option. I also took an accounting class in HS and found I could understand it, so that's when I decided to work towards it. I also took a small engines class because I had always been interested in how things work...but I didn't learn a damn thing in it. They didn't actually "teach" anything in that class - apparently everyone was supposed to know how engines worked before even showing up to class. And then we spent the semester disassembling and reassembling a small engine. Yet, again, no teaching and no guidance on how to actually do any of it.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 29, 2018 20:37:21 GMT -5
Gotta love the media finding one of the more extreme examples of PLSF program. However, I think it's a critical important program, especially if we are going to continue to expect to pay people who are social workers, teachers, cops, etc., peanuts. Social workers in my area are typically paid less than 40k a year. And for that wage, those social workers must have not only a bachelor's degree, but also a master's degree in social work. The work they do is really difficult. In my state social workers have case loads that are completely unreasonable. The very least we can do is offer them forgiveness on their student loans. To me PLSF is like any government program. Sure there will always be a very small minority who manage to take advantage or abuse the program, but the good it does far outweighs the bad. That's one thing that pisses me off about education and social work. Undergrad elementary ed and social work programs got so watered down that you had to get a Master's to prove that you aren't a moron. So you're basically paying 6 years of tuition for 3 years worth of learning. I wish they would just fix the undergrad programs and stop fleecing students. And why the heck do elementary education teachers have to take those continuing ed classes all the time? Teaching 6 year olds how to read doesn't change that much. And the teachers in my family all complain that the classes are an expensive waste of time, full of unnecessary busywork and almost no real learning. ETA: And these are hard, important jobs!
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 29, 2018 20:52:17 GMT -5
There are also employers like banks who will pay for your college. It took my friend 6 years of working as a teller but she got her degree and became a manager. She also missed the drunken college experience but she’s debt free making good money. I never understand the thinking that you need to do the four years right now without any plan. I got an Associate degree while working part-time, then started working full-time in my chosen profession while I took night/online classes to get my Bachelor degree. It took me about seven years to go from Associate to Bachelor but I graduated with 7 years of work experience and zero debt since I paid as I went (even without tuition reimbursement from my employers). And since I started at entry-level jobs in my profession when I earned my Associate degree, I find I have a much deeper understanding of my field than people who graduated with a Bachelor and got a higher level job right away.
I would tell anyone that if they don't have a well researched plan and backup plan, then jumping into college is probably going to be a mistake. And those huge lecture hall classes at big colleges are such a ripoff. 300 students, no chance of getting a question answered. Or even worse, TA's outright teaching the classes. (I know, I was one.) At least at a community college, you have reasonable class sizes. I've taken a few classes from prestigious universities for next to nothing using Coursera. That's a great way for someone to find out what they like and are good at. You won't get college credit, but the teaching is pretty high quality and the price is dirt cheap.
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zibazinski
Community Leader
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 29, 2018 20:52:18 GMT -5
The continuing ed can be useful or it can be a waste. I saw many years ago which way the wind was blowing with inclusion. When the classroom became a joke I was able to transition to PE because I had enough continuing ed credits in inclusion classes to go into it, without the PE degree because I was at the elementary level by that time. I have the certification. Which saved me from layoffs or transfers. You can take continuing ed that will help your career. Of course I always had to re-certify first aid and cpr but that was offered too. I took some continuing ed things that garnered me a $200 bonus every December. Had to take X amount of classes anyway so why not get something out of it. I got 4K extra just doing what I had to do anyway, smartly.
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NastyWoman
Senior Associate
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Post by NastyWoman on Jul 30, 2018 14:56:47 GMT -5
SouthernSusana What state are you in? On the news this morning was an interview with a school district supervisor here in the Phx area. They are redoing one of the high schools and going with the various academies that you mention. But he didn't talk about a Skilled Trade Academy. In my high school years, forever ago, there were shop classes, home ec classes, business and finance, along with college prep and the arts. This was in the Los Angeles schools in the 1950s. There was also a high school called Manual Arts for the kids that wanted hands on lessons versus all book work. Wonder what happened? I'm in Alabama. What happened? The trades were looked down on as everyone pushed college on their kids. Tech classes became centered on IT, etc. The balance is now swinging the other way. But a training center is a big $$$ investment for an individual district. There's a lot of equipment involved. We've always let kids go to the community college for half-days to get that training, but that put them on the fringes of a college-prep, academy-oriented world. Now we are recognizing that education is not one-size-fits-all. And that is one of the sources of the differences between European and US education. When comparing a lot of people jump in with "they only test the cream of the crop". For university that is true. However, the trade schools have a general ed. component as well. In addition to having internships etc. in their chosen field. It does recognize that not everyone needs a college degree nor is it even desirable to pretend that they do.
And in case anyone wonders: yes you can move through different levels of education so if you want to be say a plumber, and later you decide that you want to start your own plumbing company, there are specific programs designed to help you gain the needed knowledge.
Is this better than what we have here? For quite a few it would be, but just like there are people that fall through the cracks here, there are kids that fall through the cracks there. Nothing is one-size-fits-all after all...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2018 15:05:52 GMT -5
There are also employers like banks who will pay for your college. It took my friend 6 years of working as a teller but she got her degree and became a manager. She also missed the drunken college experience but she’s debt free making good money. I forgot to mention as she progressed in her schooling, her income also progressed and not as a tellers rate, either. One of her classes ended up being on a Saturday. Needless to say, she never worked Saturday like most tellers do. She did stay at home until she was 20 because she wanted to pay off her car loan, on her spiffy car. Then she moved to a two bedroom with a roommate. She went right into management and the bank was thrilled with her and vice versa.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 30, 2018 15:13:07 GMT -5
I never understand the thinking that you need to do the four years right now without any plan. I got an Associate degree while working part-time, then started working full-time in my chosen profession while I took night/online classes to get my Bachelor degree. It took me about seven years to go from Associate to Bachelor but I graduated with 7 years of work experience and zero debt since I paid as I went (even without tuition reimbursement from my employers). And since I started at entry-level jobs in my profession when I earned my Associate degree, I find I have a much deeper understanding of my field than people who graduated with a Bachelor and got a higher level job right away.
I would tell anyone that if they don't have a well researched plan and backup plan, then jumping into college is probably going to be a mistake. And those huge lecture hall classes at big colleges are such a ripoff. 300 students, no chance of getting a question answered. Or even worse, TA's outright teaching the classes. (I know, I was one.) At least at a community college, you have reasonable class sizes. I've taken a few classes from prestigious universities for next to nothing using Coursera. That's a great way for someone to find out what they like and are good at. You won't get college credit, but the teaching is pretty high quality and the price is dirt cheap. Meh. I didn't have a plan, I pretty much winged it. It all worked out.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jul 30, 2018 20:16:38 GMT -5
Actually, I think the teacher in my one-room country school already knew that in 1944 when I started.
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Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 1:57:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2018 9:10:09 GMT -5
Here's another article about the student loan forgiveness program and how incredibly difficult it is to actually qualify. This woman has been paying $350-$450/month for 9 years and still owes her original loan amount.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Aug 28, 2018 23:56:25 GMT -5
I feel bad for the young people today. Navigating college and career planning is so much tricker than it was when I was in school.
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zibazinski
Community Leader
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 29, 2018 4:29:35 GMT -5
That it is. My parents didn’t have the background to help Me but I did for my kids. Yet I still see college educated parents encouraging and paying for their kids to have fluff degrees. Go figure. Then their child wants to live large on 30-40 k a year and figures out they need to get a more demanding degree so here we go again.
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