djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 19, 2018 17:40:53 GMT -5
I was surprised stocks ended up higher today with the shutdown looming they were only slightly higher. but yeah, WS seems to be betting against it.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jan 19, 2018 17:52:13 GMT -5
Why do they almost always wait until the last day, extend for 120 days, then wait until the last day. Not like they are busy working on other legislation.
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Jan 19, 2018 18:52:30 GMT -5
Why do they almost always wait until the last day, extend for 120 days, then wait until the last day. Not like they are busy working on other legislation.
Our leaders should do better, but to an extent I think that it is just a natural thing. Think back to college. How many students waited until the last minute to do a term paper or study all night for a test? They should do better though.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 19, 2018 22:11:53 GMT -5
Why do they almost always wait until the last day, extend for 120 days, then wait until the last day. Not like they are busy working on other legislation. It's a maneuvering technique. Each party trying to back the other into a corner.
Like when two cats meet, before the fight starts they put their backs up and face off for a while.
It only works if you run things right down to the wire, and then see who blinks.
If we had two political parties actually trying to improve the nation and work across the aisle, this would have been fixed a long time ago. But it wasn't, because we have two parties that spend all their time name calling each other, when they aren't fighting within their own party.
Robot overlords would do so much better.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jan 19, 2018 22:17:46 GMT -5
None of this would be an issue if the Republicans had reauthorized CHIP and if *he who shall not be named* had left DACA alone. This is on the GOP and *he who shall not be named*
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Jan 19, 2018 23:13:49 GMT -5
So, will they fix this over the weekend?
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Jan 19, 2018 23:52:41 GMT -5
I have a question....
With a shut down, does that mean that federal courts also quit working? Just curious!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 0:15:54 GMT -5
None of this would be an issue if the Republicans had reauthorized CHIP and if *he who shall not be named* had left DACA alone. This is on the GOP and *he who shall not be named* They have already got CHIP. All about DACA, not CHIP.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 20, 2018 0:16:44 GMT -5
it takes a while for things to TRULY shut down. some things run out of cash almost immediately. other things take a bit longer. the timeline is really arcane. i remember looking into it last time. i just remember some stuff never really shut down, and some stuff did. federal parks were among the first, i believe.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 20, 2018 0:44:51 GMT -5
Democrats need to realize that President Trump is not a Republican. He isn't going to fold. The above is a direct quote and when looked at without the plethora of other statements, it makes a rather sad point. BTW, he is yours so you get to keep at least one non-folder in the party. Nobody else wants him.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 20, 2018 12:56:29 GMT -5
it takes a while for things to TRULY shut down. some things run out of cash almost immediately. other things take a bit longer. the timeline is really arcane. i remember looking into it last time. i just remember some stuff never really shut down, and some stuff did. federal parks were among the first, i believe. Not this time...parks remain open just most of personnel are not reporting for work...Save admission fees...won't have trash pick up so good citizens should take home their own trash...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 20, 2018 13:02:01 GMT -5
it takes a while for things to TRULY shut down. some things run out of cash almost immediately. other things take a bit longer. the timeline is really arcane. i remember looking into it last time. i just remember some stuff never really shut down, and some stuff did. federal parks were among the first, i believe. Not this time...parks remain open just most of personnel are not reporting for work...Save admission fees...won't have trash pick up so good citizens should take home their own trash... i did say WERE. i have no idea what will shut down first, dezii.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 20, 2018 13:08:31 GMT -5
Why do they almost always wait until the last day, extend for 120 days, then wait until the last day. Not like they are busy working on other legislation. It's a maneuvering technique. Each party trying to back the other into a corner.
Like when two cats meet, before the fight starts they put their backs up and face off for a while.
It only works if you run things right down to the wire, and then see who blinks.
If we had two political parties actually trying to improve the nation and work across the aisle, this would have been fixed a long time ago. But it wasn't, because we have two parties that spend all their time name calling each other, when they aren't fighting within their own party.
Robot overlords would do so much better.
If u had a POTUS who was really one who operated as one this would never have reached this point...I believe his own party's leadership is afraid of our Donald... So forget him...work as one with Dems and if the Donald calls on his base to punish, so be it....This shut down falls on the Donald shoulders more then any one else's..Man is incompetent to be POTUS... As the tell all book explains, right up to the end, did not expect to win...He , and his supporters too, thought of the whole experience as something to advance himself and family members in the private sector, for supporters a advancement for them too in different sectors...cable news, financial circles......a legacy for himself..set up for the better for family.... Once winning...had and has no clue as to what the job entails...his ideas and pronouncements are never Presidential...they are what one expects from the guy at the end of the bar who most don't want to listen to..the one who has a few to many to drink and who stumbles out with his foolish pronouncements ..this is who is our country's leader right now..[sad, sad, sad]
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 20, 2018 13:12:35 GMT -5
Not this time...parks remain open just most of personnel are not reporting for work...Save admission fees...won't have trash pick up so good citizens should take home their own trash... i did say WERE. i have no idea what will shut down first, dezii. Parks are mentioned as being open...Yosemite...u will save $30.00 car fee...believe most of other ones remaining open...best to check ahead I would suggest...Doing so because under Obama when all were shut down, towns around the parks, and tourist relied on businesses , lost out big time , now trying to keep hurt to minimum...according to article I read.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 20, 2018 13:14:01 GMT -5
So, will they fix this over the weekend? Doubt it...need a couple weeks to call out and diss opposition first...put blame on other side These demonstrations across the country and marches..hundreds of thousands showing up...think I heard in California, where 50.000 showed up last year...this year 300,000 showing up and demonstrating... Our Donald is poo pooing these demonstrations...same probably as some of his supporters here...Am sure Fox isn't even mentioning..but for me...such negative demonstrations, one year into his time in office, is not healthy for the country...not what America is about...Reminds me of demonstrations during the Vietnam War...real dislike, hatred toward our POTUS and fellow citizens...As one of our posters posted here just short time ago...his feelings toward Democrats not really are Americans..what he believes...his is what country has become under the Donald and it's only year one of four....not what I want for my country...not what I served to support and protect and bled for....makes me literally sick to be honest with u...
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 20, 2018 14:07:34 GMT -5
The Dems are definitely going all in on DACA. My sense is that it won't go well for them because I'm not sure how much voters actually want to sacrifice in order to get a DACA deal. It also has the unfortunate optics of putting non-citizens before citizens. OTOH - it may be better electorally for the Democrats to hold out on this. Politico had an interesting article recently about the upcoming census. CA may actually lose a seat in the House if illegal immigrants are too fearful to be counted. Technically non citizens but with 800,000 or more..[no one really knows how many] citizens in all but the being born here label...schooled here...so many advanced degrees, so many actually serving in our military...[who here has actually so served] and by March, would be ripe for deportation to countries they know nothing about... Many don't even speak the language and to say in reality they wouldn't probably be deported...remember just a few days ago the government deported a 30 year old to Mexico..had been here 20 years...so deportation definitely a possibility... Possible Dems might be blamed but to walk away and abandon such people...not what Democrats are comfortable as a group doing..Possible the pubs are...we more liberals are not thus why making such a stand...
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 20, 2018 14:25:11 GMT -5
Wasn't the promise to Flake for his vote on the tax bill that there would be a DACA bill by January? A foolish trade for him, because there was little chance they would really try to get it passed without being forced, but it was still a deal that they made. Who's going to believe them in the future if they don't follow through? They even had a deal pretty much already done until Trump backed out like the moronic little twit that he is. I am normally in favor of clean bills but there is bipartisan support for this. Send it to Trump. Make him veto it.
And no, I would much rather have had that stupid tax bill fail as opposed to getting a DACA bill.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 20, 2018 15:04:54 GMT -5
I believe if you serve your military term well you should be a citizen. It's estimated only about 5% of the DACA eligible population has a college degree. That could be because of poverty, the high cost of college, and other factors, but this is not a highly educated group of people. I don't think we should kick people out who've been here since they were children but I also get why people want less illegal immigration. As far as those serving in our military...suggested 900 now...not sure how many in the past...remember our military is all volunteer now... www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/09/07/trump-administration-struggles-fate-900-dreamers-serving-military/640637001/
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 20, 2018 15:38:34 GMT -5
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 20, 2018 15:52:52 GMT -5
Seems "Fox " news had as a guest...seems he is a guest there often...a guy who says White supremist are ok vs the dreamers for being here because they are citizens and the dreamers are not...Interesting premise...might have a point...not for me but for some.. ----------------------------------------------- Fox News Guest Goes Off The Rails: 'White Supremacists Are American Citizens' A guest on Fox News defended white supremacists over undocumented immigrants on Thursday evening. “The white supremacists are American citizens,” Mark Steyn, a regular guest on the network, told Tucker Carlson. “The illegal immigrants are people who shouldn’t be here.” Steyn, who Carlson introduced as an “actual thinker,” was speaking about a segment on CNN in which Chris Cuomo ripped the Trump administration for making undocumented immigrants seem like “monsters” and “villains” while ignoring the threat posed by white supremacists. --------------------------------------------------- "Steyn also complained of “cultural transformation” in Arizona due to immigration: “In Arizona, a majority of the grade-school children now are Hispanic. That means Arizona’s future is as an Hispanic society. That means, in effect, the border has moved north and the cultural transformation outweighs any economic benefits that that lady was talking about.” ----------------------------------------------------------- www.yahoo.com/news/fox-news-guest-goes-off-075508436.html
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 20, 2018 17:01:28 GMT -5
This demand for only legally vented people to be admitted into the states with visas are not new... Big story was in 1939 when the liner St. Louis with European passengers...about 950, most Jews from all over Europe , many from Germany. Most had Cuban Visas whose President , while ship was sailing to Cuba , revoked all those entry visas... After being turned down by Cuba, not allowed to disembark..Cuba too had suffered with the Depression, ship sailed slowly to the US....hoping to be allowed to let passengers disembark. Mood in the states , while sympathetic to passengers and mostly against Natzi race discriminations, and with a State Department not in favor for allowing disembarking of passengers..83% of Americans wanted laws up held on visas.. After exhausting all appeals the St. Louis sailed back to Europe. Arrangements were made to allow four countries to grant passengers to enter their countries. England, France, Netherlands and Denmark.... All but one , died in the blitz, admitted to England , survived the war...many however in other countries did not...rounded up by Nazis and sent to the death camps. ---------------------------------- " A State Department telegram sent to a passenger stated that the passengers must "await their turns on the waiting list and qualify for and obtain immigration visas before they may be admissible into the United States." US diplomats in Havana intervened once more with the Cuban government to admit the passengers on a "humanitarian" basis, but without success. Quotas established in the US Immigration and Nationality Act of 1924 strictly limited the number of immigrants who could be admitted to the United States each year. In 1939, the annual combined German-Austrian immigration quota was 27,370 and was quickly filled. In fact, there was a waiting list of at least several years. US officials could only have granted visas to the St. Louis passengers by denying them to the thousands of German Jews placed further up on the waiting list. Public opinion in the United States, although ostensibly sympathetic to the plight of refugees and critical of Hitler's policies, continued to favor immigration restrictions. The Great Depression had left millions of people in the United States unemployed and fearful of competition for the scarce few jobs available. It also fueled antisemitism, xenophobia, nativism, and isolationism. A Fortune Magazine poll at the time indicated that 83 percent of Americans opposed relaxing restrictions on immigration. President Roosevelt could have issued an executive order to admit the St. Louis refugees, but this general hostility to immigrants, the gains of isolationist Republicans in the Congressional elections of 1938, and Roosevelt's consideration of running for an unprecedented third term as president were among the political considerations that militated against taking this extraordinary step in an unpopular cause. ----------------------------------------- www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005267
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 21, 2018 12:25:37 GMT -5
Satire from The Borowitz Report Sarah Huckabee Sanders Offers to Lie for Free During ShutdownBy Andy Borowitz January 20, 2018 WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Calling it “the least I can do for my country,” the White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, said on Saturday morning that she would lie for free during the government shutdown. “Now more than ever it’s important that the stream of falsehoods and distortions from this White House continues to flow in a steady and uninterrupted fashion,” Sanders said. “To achieve that, for the duration of the government shutdown I will be lying on a pro-bono basis.” Sanders said that Donald Trump had asked that she keep a full accounting of the lies she told during the shutdown so that she could be reimbursed for them later, but she turned down that offer. “I’ve often said that I like to lie so much I would do it for free,” she said. “This is a chance to put my money where my mouth is.” The press secretary said that her offer had already inspired other top Administration figures to lie for free during the shutdown, including Vice-President Mike Pence, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, and White House doctor Ronny Jackson. After making her announcement, Sanders moved on to a broad range of other topics, including her assertion that the government had not shut down. link
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 21, 2018 14:11:14 GMT -5
The Dems are definitely going all in on DACA. My sense is that it won't go well for them because I'm not sure how much voters actually want to sacrifice in order to get a DACA deal. It also has the unfortunate optics of putting non-citizens before citizens. OTOH - it may be better electorally for the Democrats to hold out on this. Politico had an interesting article recently about the upcoming census. CA may actually lose a seat in the House if illegal immigrants are too fearful to be counted. Durbin was saying on one of the talking head shows this AM that Trump has set a March deadline to start shipping out the DACA people, 1000 per day, if nothing changes between now and then.
He said we've had four of these extensions so far because the two sides can't agree on anything, while a bunch of issues pile up, and if the DACA situation wasn't fixed at this point, the March deadline will pass before this current extension expires in April. So this is the last time the Dems can try to force the issue prior to them starting to be evicted from the country so they decided to try the line in the sand.
I don't know if it will backfire on them or not. There are only a limited number of DACA kids, but 70% of the voters think they should be allowed to remain.
I know if I could chose between including 20 billion for Trump's wall and letting the DACA kids stay, I'd pick the DACA kids.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 21, 2018 14:14:21 GMT -5
I believe if you serve your military term well you should be a citizen. It's estimated only about 5% of the DACA eligible population has a college degree. That could be because of poverty, the high cost of college, and other factors, but this is not a highly educated group of people. I don't think we should kick people out who've been here since they were children but I also get why people want less illegal immigration. There's something about DACA kids not being able to go to college - I was watching a show a year or so ago about two sisters who were surprised to find out they weren't citizens when they applied to college. Both wanted to attend but couldn't, but the city they live in had a special 'college for non-citizens' that they could attend, although it only offered a limited number of classes, taught for free by local college professors.
I can't remember if they had to have a SSN or what it was that kept them from being able to attend....
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 21, 2018 14:16:58 GMT -5
The Dems are definitely going all in on DACA. My sense is that it won't go well for them because I'm not sure how much voters actually want to sacrifice in order to get a DACA deal. It also has the unfortunate optics of putting non-citizens before citizens. OTOH - it may be better electorally for the Democrats to hold out on this. Politico had an interesting article recently about the upcoming census. CA may actually lose a seat in the House if illegal immigrants are too fearful to be counted. Durbin was saying on one of the talking head shows this AM that Trump has set a March deadline to start shipping out the DACA people, 1000 per day, if nothing changes between now and then.
He said we've had four of these extensions so far because the two sides can't agree on anything, while a bunch of issues pile up, and if the DACA situation wasn't fixed at this point, the March deadline will pass before this current extension expires in April. So this is the last time the Dems can try to force the issue prior to them starting to be evicted from the country so they decided to try the line in the sand.
I don't know if it will backfire on them or not. There are only a limited number of DACA kids, but 70% of the voters think they should be allowed to remain.
I know if I could chose between including 20 billion for Trump's wall and letting the DACA kids stay, I'd pick the DACA kids.
But....but, Mexico is going to pay for the wall! Trump told us that over and over and over and over again.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 21, 2018 21:33:21 GMT -5
i did say WERE. i have no idea what will shut down first, dezii. Parks are mentioned as being open...Yosemite...u will save $30.00 car fee...believe most of other ones remaining open...best to check ahead I would suggest...Doing so because under Obama when all were shut down, towns around the parks, and tourist relied on businesses , lost out big time , now trying to keep hurt to minimum...according to article I read. i heard on the radio that some of the monuments in DC were closed.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 21, 2018 22:21:50 GMT -5
What poll said 70% of the voters wanted DACA to stay?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 21, 2018 22:35:14 GMT -5
CBS News, released last Sunday, for one. And 58% were against funding the border wall to get a DACA deal done. Another interesting tidbit from that poll was that only 53% OF TRUMP SUPPORTERS consider Trump and the administration to usually be right on the facts.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 22, 2018 0:58:07 GMT -5
CBS News, released last Sunday, for one. And 58% were against funding the border wall to get a DACA deal done. Another interesting tidbit from that poll was that only 53% OF TRUMP SUPPORTERS consider Trump and the administration to usually be right on the facts. 70% blame the GOP for the shutdown. the same number of people think that Trump is mentally fit as unfit for office. by almost a 3:1 margin, people think Trump is NOT a genius. the list goes on and on. which is why Trump no longer talks about the polls.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 22, 2018 1:15:47 GMT -5
68% that he is not a stable genius. By a 5-2 margin Americans are embarrassed by Trump being president rather than proud.
Yeah, it just goes on.
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