NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 18, 2017 19:49:47 GMT -5
A while back (May/June period) there was a thread about a picture showing B-actor and comedian Kathy Griffin (KG) holding a fake bloody dt head up. I personally found that very distasteful and have said so, but the conservative contigent here went much farther as in she should be fired/prosecuted/yada, yada, yada.
I have waited all day for these same people to call for dt's being fired/prosecution/yada, yada, yada for his golf tweet yesterday.
"On Sunday morning, President Donald Trump retweeted a video that was edited to make it look like he was hitting a golf ball into the back of his 2016 election rival, Hillary Clinton, and knocking her down. ..."
www.cnn.com/2017/09/17/opinions/trump-golf-ball-clinton-alaimo/index.html
I realize that he has not really aimed a golf ball at her, but then again neither was he beheaded by KG. Where is the outrage by the conservatives over this behavior? Why is it ok for we-the-people to hold the POTUS to a lower standard than we do a second rank actor? The POTUS should be able to be diplomatic and keep his feelings and communications under control, which I do not necessarily from expect from a comedian. He represents all of us after all and his tweets are NOT private!
So please enlighten us and let us know why you think this is ok, "presidential", and respectful of the office that dt currently occupies.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 18, 2017 20:00:46 GMT -5
We have been normalizing trump's repugnant behavior for sometime now. We must not allow that to happen.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Sept 18, 2017 20:03:30 GMT -5
She is a 'D' lister.
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justme
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Post by justme on Sept 18, 2017 20:13:44 GMT -5
It's also why no one said boo when a lesser known band of males had an album cover or maybe a single of them doing the same thing before KG did. No one went after them.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Sept 18, 2017 20:13:53 GMT -5
I mean, he's a repugnant human, but I'm not sure that joking about beheading the POTUS is on quite the same level as beaning someone with a golf ball.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 18, 2017 20:32:43 GMT -5
I mean, he's a repugnant human, but I'm not sure that joking about beheading the POTUS is on quite the same level as beaning someone with a golf ball. The same level? One person is a commedian the other is (arguably) the most powerful person in the free world. I think the POTUS ought to be held to a higher standard than a commedian. Instead the opposite seems to be the case.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 18, 2017 20:43:54 GMT -5
I never thought KG was joking or even trying to imply she wanted to behead Trump. Her tag line for the photo was to mock his comment of bleeding out of her where ever. The execution was faulty and to me even the fake blood on the mask/head was so badly done I couldn't take it as seriously as some did. Yes she held it like a beheaded head but how does it make any sense that there's supposedly dried black blood on the top of the head and nothing really from the neck area?
The image took on a meaning IMO not really intended by KG.
And, people do die from getting hit in the head by golf balls... golf.heraldtribune.com/death-by-golf-ball-not-all-that-uncommon/
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Sept 18, 2017 20:48:40 GMT -5
I mean, he's a repugnant human, but I'm not sure that joking about beheading the POTUS is on quite the same level as beaning someone with a golf ball. The same level? One person is a commedian the other is (arguably) the most powerful person in the free world. I think the POTUS ought to be held to a higher standard than a commedian. Instead the opposite seems to be the case. I do too, but that ship has long since sailed. He will never be held to any objective standard of common decency. I have given up on that notion. For his supporters, only the most outrageous comments even get a glance. For crying out loud, be bragged about grabbing women by the genitals, and they barely blinked. This isn't an apples to apples comparison. If KG had displayed a picture of her hitting Trump with a golf ball, I don't think we would have seen the level of outrage either. Conversely, I would hope if Trump had retweeted a picture of him holding Clinton's severed head, even his die hard fans would be as up in arms. (Though I wouldn't hold my breath).
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Sept 18, 2017 20:52:15 GMT -5
I never thought KG was joking or even trying to imply she wanted to behead Trump. Her tag line for the photo was to mock his comment of bleeding out of her where ever. The execution was faulty and to me even the fake blood on the mask/head was so badly done I couldn't take it as seriously as some did. Yes she held it like a beheaded head but how does it make any sense that there's supposedly dried black blood on the top of the head and nothing really from the neck area?
The image took on a meaning IMO not really intended by KG.
And, people do die from getting hit in the head by golf balls... golf.heraldtribune.com/death-by-golf-ball-not-all-that-uncommon/
I stopped taking her seriously years ago. Intent aside, it's probably not a good idea to pose with the fake severed head of the President. First Amendment and all, but except some backlash. Okay, I did not realize that death by golf ball was that much of a thing. To be clear, I don't think what he posted was appropriate, but I can understand why people are more easily able to brush it off as not that big a deal.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 18, 2017 20:54:55 GMT -5
It's not as if Hillary Clinton is some stranger to trump. trump minimally wishes her mental harm. His conduct toward her during the nationally televised debates ("Such a nasty woman"), leading up to and after the election was and is truly deplorable.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Sept 18, 2017 20:58:30 GMT -5
He is bigly repugnant.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 18, 2017 21:22:30 GMT -5
I never thought KG was joking or even trying to imply she wanted to behead Trump. Her tag line for the photo was to mock his comment of bleeding out of her where ever. The execution was faulty and to me even the fake blood on the mask/head was so badly done I couldn't take it as seriously as some did. Yes she held it like a beheaded head but how does it make any sense that there's supposedly dried black blood on the top of the head and nothing really from the neck area?
The image took on a meaning IMO not really intended by KG.
And, people do die from getting hit in the head by golf balls... golf.heraldtribune.com/death-by-golf-ball-not-all-that-uncommon/
I stopped taking her seriously years ago. Intent aside, it's probably not a good idea to pose with the fake severed head of the President. First Amendment and all, but except some backlash. Okay, I did not realize that death by golf ball was that much of a thing. To be clear, I don't think what he posted was appropriate, but I can understand why people are more easily able to brush it off as not that big a deal. I couldn't take it seriously as a severed head. Where's the neck? Why is the blood then on the face and part of the hair but not from the non existent neck? Game of Thrones knows how to do pretend beheadings.' KG wasn't even going for that. Maybe its my logical mind, but it looked wrong from the first time I saw it.
I'm putting this behind a spoiler. Look at the difference between a Game of Thrones head on a pike with blood in the proper place ... and a head with a neck like a usual beheading ... and the KG photo which seems to be a mask missing both a neck and eyes.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 18, 2017 21:26:07 GMT -5
It's not as if Hillary Clinton is some stranger to Trump. Trump minimally wishes her mental harm. His conduct toward her during the nationally televised debates ("Such a nasty woman"), leading up to and after the election was and is truly deplorable. He had attacked her about the book she has written, which is petty enough in and of itself, but the golf thing is beyond the pale in the opinion of this Nasty Woman! And no, I don't think we should stop calling him out for his behavior! We should not normalize this; giving up on calling him, or others, for behavior like this demeans us and promotes moving away from a civilized society.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Sept 18, 2017 21:46:19 GMT -5
If Kathy Griffin posted a video of her hitting a golf ball into Donald Trump, there wouldn't have been any outrage. If Donald Trump posted a picture of a beheaded Kathy Griffin, there would be plenty of outrage.
No double-standard. Apples and oranges (no pun intended)
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Sept 18, 2017 21:59:55 GMT -5
I don't think what Kathy Griffin did was a good thing. And, what our current POTUS posted isn't a good thing, either. However, in our nation (at least in the past) the POTUS is normally expected to ignore criticism, which means not lashing out at every single person who criticizes them. Let's face it, he acts like a junior high kid. I look forward to a day when someone who acts mature holds the office once again. However, with all of the juvenile behavior we've seen in this administration, I don't know if we'll ever go back to the way things were before. The bar is so low now that it is embarrassing.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 18, 2017 22:22:01 GMT -5
If Kathy Griffin posted a video of her hitting a golf ball into Donald Trump, there wouldn't have been any outrage. If Donald Trump posted a picture of a beheaded Kathy Griffin, there would be plenty of outrage. No double-standard. Apples and oranges (no pun intended) And you believe that? Really?
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Sept 18, 2017 22:34:27 GMT -5
If Kathy Griffin posted a video of her hitting a golf ball into Donald Trump, there wouldn't have been any outrage. If Donald Trump posted a picture of a beheaded Kathy Griffin, there would be plenty of outrage. No double-standard. Apples and oranges (no pun intended) And you believe that? Really? Yes, really.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 23:17:54 GMT -5
A while back (May/June period) there was a thread about a picture showing B-actor and comedian Kathy Griffin (KG) holding a fake bloody dt head up. I personally found that very distasteful and have said so, but the conservative contigent here went much farther as in she should be fired/prosecuted/yada, yada, yada.
I have waited all day for these same people to call for dt's being fired/prosecution/yada, yada, yada for his golf tweet yesterday.
"On Sunday morning, President Donald Trump retweeted a video that was edited to make it look like he was hitting a golf ball into the back of his 2016 election rival, Hillary Clinton, and knocking her down. ..."
www.cnn.com/2017/09/17/opinions/Trump-golf-ball-clinton-alaimo/index.html
I realize that he has not really aimed a golf ball at her, but then again neither was he beheaded by KG. Where is the outrage by the conservatives over this behavior? Why is it ok for we-the-people to hold the POTUS to a lower standard than we do a second rank actor? The POTUS should be able to be diplomatic and keep his feelings and communications under control, which I do not necessarily from expect from a comedian. He represents all of us after all and his tweets are NOT private!
So please enlighten us and let us know why you think this is ok, "presidential", and respectful of the office that dt currently occupies. In my defense (even though I am not a DT supporter), I hadn't heard about it until now... must investigate. Will return once I have seen the video/tweet
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 23:44:50 GMT -5
Okay, dug into the tweets and re-tweets to get the whole story.
1a> This meme-gif wasn't his idea. It's something he found that someone else had created and tweeted 1b> KG's beheaded Donald, was something that she produced and starred in, intentionally. 1c> if you find it and think it's funny, maybe your sense of humor needs help. If you create something immoral then your morality needs help.
2a> This meme-gif wasn't about anyone being dead, it was about knocking someone over, making them fall down 2b> You can't behead someone without killing them, so her picture holding the severed head was meant to show death. 2c> What's worse... knocked over (but living to tell the tale) or dead?
3a> The photoshopped-in golf ball actually hits Hillary in the back, knocking her down, but otherwise causing no harm. 3b> Again, can't have a bodiless head without a corpse somewhere. 3c> Being a corpse is much more implied harm than being knocked over.
4a> if you pay attention, Hillary gets back up at the very end of the gif. 4b> if you know anything about beheadings, you know that the person that's been beheaded never gets up again. 4c> Definite difference in outcome at the end.
And last but not least... being hit by a golf ball (especially in the back) is rarely fatal... being beheaded is always fatal.
Basically comparing this re-tweet to KG's photo is... comparing apples (from a tree OR from an Apple store near you, the fruit or the device... your choice) to Volkswagens.
ETA for the record, the "a" and "b" portions of each point, plus the "last but not least" point, are factual... the "c" portions and the conclusion (last paragraph) are my opinion.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 18, 2017 23:48:29 GMT -5
I mean, he's a repugnant human, but I'm not sure that joking about beheading the POTUS is on quite the same level as beaning someone with a golf ball. The same level? One person is a commedian the other is (arguably) the most powerful person in the free world. I think the POTUS ought to be held to a higher standard than a commedian. Instead the opposite seems to be the case. ^^This^^ When the "leader of the free world" puts out a tweet about knocking a woman down and thinking it's funny, it's very, very different from a comedian doing a shtick.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 18, 2017 23:54:26 GMT -5
So what? It's still grossly inappropriate for a POTUS. The tweet was originally from someone named "fuctupmind". Now THAT seems fitting. Birds of a feather, and all that....
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 19, 2017 7:49:47 GMT -5
A while back (May/June period) there was a thread about a picture showing B-actor and comedian Kathy Griffin (KG) holding a fake bloody dt head up. I personally found that very distasteful and have said so, but the conservative contigent here went much farther as in she should be fired/prosecuted/yada, yada, yada.
I have waited all day for these same people to call for dt's being fired/prosecution/yada, yada, yada for his golf tweet yesterday.
"On Sunday morning, President Donald Trump retweeted a video that was edited to make it look like he was hitting a golf ball into the back of his 2016 election rival, Hillary Clinton, and knocking her down. ..."
www.cnn.com/2017/09/17/opinions/Trump-golf-ball-clinton-alaimo/index.html
I realize that he has not really aimed a golf ball at her, but then again neither was he beheaded by KG. Where is the outrage by the conservatives over this behavior? Why is it ok for we-the-people to hold the POTUS to a lower standard than we do a second rank actor? The POTUS should be able to be diplomatic and keep his feelings and communications under control, which I do not necessarily from expect from a comedian. He represents all of us after all and his tweets are NOT private!
So please enlighten us and let us know why you think this is ok, "presidential", and respectful of the office that dt currently occupies.
Donald Trump retweeting said GIF involving the golf ball was highly unprofessional. But he shouldn't be "fired" for it (ignoring that presidents can't be fired in the sense that you're thinking of).
Griffin's bloody head episode was distasteful but I don't think she should be fired. It's free speech and firing people for their political views/expressions always seemed too fascist for me.
But I can understand why people wanted KG fired, given how the left often calls on people to be fired for what they say/do. If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. I don't necessarily agree with that line of thinking (see above) but I can understand why the argument could be made.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 19, 2017 8:04:40 GMT -5
Okay, dug into the tweets and re-tweets to get the whole story. 1a> This meme-gif wasn't his idea. It's something he found that someone else had created and tweeted 1b> KG's beheaded Donald, was something that she produced and starred in, intentionally. 1c> if you find it and think it's funny, maybe your sense of humor needs help. If you create something immoral then your morality needs help. 2a> This meme-gif wasn't about anyone being dead, it was about knocking someone over, making them fall down 2b> You can't behead someone without killing them, so her picture holding the severed head was meant to show death. 2c> What's worse... knocked over (but living to tell the tale) or dead? 3a> The photoshopped-in golf ball actually hits Hillary in the back, knocking her down, but otherwise causing no harm. 3b> Again, can't have a bodiless head without a corpse somewhere. 3c> Being a corpse is much more implied harm than being knocked over. 4a> if you pay attention, Hillary gets back up at the very end of the gif. 4b> if you know anything about beheadings, you know that the person that's been beheaded never gets up again. 4c> Definite difference in outcome at the end. And last but not least... being hit by a golf ball (especially in the back) is rarely fatal... being beheaded is always fatal. Basically comparing this re-tweet to KG's photo is... comparing apples (from a tree OR from an Apple store near you, the fruit or the device... your choice) to Volkswagens.ETA for the record, the "a" and "b" portions of each point , plus the "last but not least" point, are factual... the "c" portions and the conclusion (last paragraph) are my opinion. OK, let me put it this way - should the POTUS be forwarding tasteless memes about hitting a woman in the head with a golf ball? Are you trying to argue that what he did was less offensive than what a comedian, well known for her crass and tasteless brand of humor, posted?
The 'apple' here is that the POTUS should behave in a dignified manner and not stoop to juvenile name calling. Can you think of a time Bush Jr or Obama retweeted something offensive while they were POTUS, no matter how racist or mean someone was to them? That's what the POTUS is supposed to do, and that's what Trump claimed he would start doing, once he won the election - but he's still the same pouty, defensive, willing-to-forward-any-racist-sexist-mean-bullshit one of his Trumpettes forwards to him that he was when he chanted 'lock her up' on the campaign trail.
He does this to play to his base, who delight in their coarse, racist, pu$$y grabbing bully president, but it's unseemly and demeans the office, and will leave a stain on the office even after he's left it.
For a comedian, however, being off color, coarse and mean is pretty much what a lot of them do - it's what they get paid to do. That's the apple and orange part for you.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 19, 2017 8:37:57 GMT -5
People took care of KG by getting her fired and she's still having repercussions from her stupidity. That's a good thing frankly. Trump should have let it go. Stooping to her level is never a wise thing. His daughter needs to work harder on him.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 19, 2017 9:28:18 GMT -5
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Sept 19, 2017 9:41:02 GMT -5
Given his personality, and general blatant disrespect toward women, I'm not sure why anyone ever thought she would have sway with him in the first place.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 19, 2017 10:56:49 GMT -5
Given his personality, and general blatant disrespect toward women, I'm not sure why anyone ever thought she would have sway with him in the first place. I think it was another one of those things the Trump camp said during the campaign to make people think Trump would normalize his behavior post-election.
"Ivanka has a lot of influence with her dad and she will moderate all the anti-women, racist tendencies her dad has and keep him more on the progressive path once her dad gets elected."
Just like 'he'll release his tax records and prove he isn't laundering money when he gets elected,' and 'he'll stop tweeting and be all presidential when he gets elected' and 'he'll disinvest himself from all his businesses once he gets elected' and 'his company won't do any big international deals once he gets elected' and 'He'll donate any money from the new DC hotel to charity so it won't look like he's violating the emoluments clause once he gets elected' - You know - just shit they said but never really meant.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 19, 2017 12:42:21 GMT -5
I don't think what Kathy Griffin did was a good thing. And, what our current POTUS posted isn't a good thing, either. However, in our nation (at least in the past) the POTUS is normally expected to ignore criticism, which means not lashing out at every single person who criticizes them. Let's face it, he acts like a junior high kid. I look forward to a day when someone who acts mature holds the office once again. However, with all of the juvenile behavior we've seen in this administration, I don't know if we'll ever go back to the way things were before. The bar is so low now that it is embarrassing. My 9 and 11 year olds are embarassed by him. They know how inappropriate his behaviors are.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 19, 2017 17:30:59 GMT -5
Not influenced by adults around them at all?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 19:47:36 GMT -5
So what? It's still grossly inappropriate for a POTUS. The tweet was originally from someone named "fuctupmind". Now THAT seems fitting. Birds of a feather, and all that.... Did I say it was appropriate? Please, by all means, find where I said that it was and I'll eat my computer. This was a simple comparison of the two things and why outrage over this one isn't nearly as warranted as the outrage over the KG one was. You do know that there's a difference between "inappropriate" and "f'ing disgusting"... right?
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