Double standard in outrage

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2017 8:04:40 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Sept 18, 2017 23:44:50 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Okay, dug into the tweets and re-tweets to get the whole story.

1a> This meme-gif wasn't his idea. It's something he found that someone else had created and tweeted
1b> KG's beheaded Donald, was something that she produced and starred in, intentionally.
1c> if you find it and think it's funny, maybe your sense of humor needs help. If you create something immoral then your morality needs help.

2a> This meme-gif wasn't about anyone being dead, it was about knocking someone over, making them fall down
2b> You can't behead someone without killing them, so her picture holding the severed head was meant to show death.
2c> What's worse... knocked over (but living to tell the tale) or dead?

3a> The photoshopped-in golf ball actually hits Hillary in the back, knocking her down, but otherwise causing no harm.
3b> Again, can't have a bodiless head without a corpse somewhere.
3c> Being a corpse is much more implied harm than being knocked over.

4a> if you pay attention, Hillary gets back up at the very end of the gif.
4b> if you know anything about beheadings, you know that the person that's been beheaded never gets up again.
4c> Definite difference in outcome at the end.

And last but not least... being hit by a golf ball (especially in the back) is rarely fatal... being beheaded is always fatal.

Basically comparing this re-tweet to KG's photo is... comparing apples (from a tree OR from an Apple store near you, the fruit or the device... your choice) to Volkswagens.



ETA for the record, the "a" and "b" portions of each point, plus the "last but not least" point, are factual... the "c" portions and the conclusion (last paragraph) are my opinion.

OK, let me put it this way - should the POTUS be forwarding tasteless memes about hitting a woman in the head with a golf ball? Are you trying to argue that what he did was less offensive than what a comedian, well known for her crass and tasteless brand of humor, posted?

The 'apple' here is that the POTUS should behave in a dignified manner and not stoop to juvenile name calling. Can you think of a time Bush Jr or Obama retweeted something offensive while they were POTUS, no matter how racist or mean someone was to them? That's what the POTUS is supposed to do, and that's what Trump claimed he would start doing, once he won the election - but he's still the same pouty, defensive, willing-to-forward-any-racist-sexist-mean-bullshit one of his Trumpettes forwards to him that he was when he chanted 'lock her up' on the campaign trail.

He does this to play to his base, who delight in their coarse, racist, pu$$y grabbing bully president, but it's unseemly and demeans the office, and will leave a stain on the office even after he's left it.

For a comedian, however, being off color, coarse and mean is pretty much what a lot of them do - it's what they get paid to do. That's the apple and orange part for you.

Bolded: You must have missed point #3a.

Yes, what he did was less offensive than what KG did.

Anyone that believes Trump will act in a dignified manner is living in a dream world... and again, he never "grabbed pu$$y" (I wish people would quit accusing him of it) that anyone knows of and has proof of (not including consensual acts between adults while doing adult activities... I'm sure groin-area grabbing was occurring by both sides then).

There's a line you don't cross... even for a comedian. Suggesting death for our President, no matter how much you hate them, is over that line, and not "just by a smidge" either. It's WAY over the line.

[happyhoix]

Well, if you think Trump never grabbed pu$$y you're living in a dream world, Richard. I read one woman's experience of how she was standing on the street in Manhattan trying to wave down a cab when Trump and a couple of his buddies came out of a restaurant, and Trump reached over and grabbed her breast, while he and his buddies laughed. He grabbed some woman he didn't know from Adam on a public street, and laughed at her shocked and outraged expression of disbelief.

And you're still missing the point. Comedians = paid to say stupid shit, sometimes really snarky shit, no one cares because they're comedians and don't matter. POTUS = representative of the US to the rest of the world, expected to present a very high, dignified standard of conduct because he is constantly under scrutiny from friends and enemies alike, his word can make the stock market rise or fall, etc etc - he should never stoop to forwarding crass memes on the internet. He should be above that. But our POTUS, like the spoiled rich frat kid he is, can't control himself, not when it comes to groping women, and not when it comes to forwarding inflammatory, crude, racist, mean or simply WRONG shit on the internet.

You're stuck on 'which is worse, holding up the head of a POTUS or hitting a former secretary of state in the ass with a golf ball' when the question is actually 'which person is failing most miserably in their chosen profession.'  I've never thought Griffin was much of a comedian, but obnoxious political commentary is pretty much a given, with comedians. Trump, on the other hand, should be ashamed at how significantly he has debased the American presidency in the world with his coarse and crude behavior.  Should be, but he won't, because he judges himself on how hilarious the other frat boys think he's being, and in that respect, he's winning.

 

[zibazinski]

Well, in a case of he said she said, it's just that. But he should ignore KG and act more mature than he does toward Hillary. She's through, hopefully. 

[Opti]

There are several interesting things about this double standard in outrage. First, the photographer involved seemed to get very little backlash from the photo. He was the one who talked KG out of her first idea which was being photographed nude in a sea of Cheetos in her bathtub. The fact that the both of them decided on this next photo shoot to make a comment on Trump's 'bleeding out of her whatever' IMO makes it clear they were not intending to make a statement they wanted to kill the President. It is true they seemed to realize some would take it that way, but none of the audio I ever heard had them commenting they wanted to kill him literally. However most viewers decided it was about - a beheading threat against the President. I think its entirely that latter narrative that the media and the public pushed as almost no news outlet ran the pic with the 'bleeding out of her whatever' tagline. The media fixated on KG and almost ignored the male photographer. Did he even make a public statement?

It seems to me that men are given a pass in implied violence even sadly DT who unlike KG actually would love to hit Clinton hard enough to knock her down. (MO) But if women imply violence they are treated much harsher by the masses. Doubly so if they are not well liked to start with. If we really are in this gender neutral race neutral world that some conservatives tell me we are in, then they need to act like it. The position of President should be held to a higher standard than an insult comic. Tweeting out violence against CNN and Hillary should not be acceptable. It wouldn't be cool if he were a private citizen but it is horrendous and classes done by an elected President. All he is proving to me is that those society snobs in NYC were right. He is a man with no class and a braggart with new money.

[saveinla]

Sept 19, 2017 17:30:59 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Not influenced by adults around them at all?

You don't think young kids can think or have opinions without being influenced by adults? You will be surprised at how much they are aware nowadays. 

[MJ2.0]

they are both idiots who should STFU forever and ever, amen.

[Opti]

Probably, but they won't. They are both talkers.

If KG had gone with her original idea of the Cheeto bath its likely should would gained fans. Instead, she probably suffered the worst loss of her career thus far. Cleaning or removing an orange stained bathtub should seem like a bargain in hindsight.

In other news, the photographer will likely sell that pic for somewhere in the six figures. He has the rights to the image, KG does not.

[zibazinski]

Sept 20, 2017 9:44:19 GMT -5 saveinla said:

Sept 19, 2017 17:30:59 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Not influenced by adults around them at all?

You don't think young kids can think or have opinions without being influenced by adults? You will be surprised at how much they are aware nowadays. 

At that age?

[MJ2.0]

Swamp's kids are 9 and 11.  How dumb do you think kids are?

[saveinla]

Sept 20, 2017 10:42:49 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Sept 20, 2017 9:44:19 GMT -5 saveinla said:

You don't think young kids can think or have opinions without being influenced by adults? You will be surprised at how much they are aware nowadays. 

At that age?

Yes. They are much more aware of what is going on in the world than you would think. 

[Virgil Showlion]

I can't believe it. Page 2 and we haven't even broached the core issue yet:

Which is worse: the retweet of "Pres. Trump body slamming the CNN logo" or the retweet of "Pres. Trump knocking Ms. Clinton down with a golf ball"?

We're going to need a lot of coffee and pizza.

[dondub]

Beer and pizza. Coffee and chocolate custard donuts.

[Tiny]

Huh.   I took the Kathy Griffin thing as "inappropriate" humor from a comedian.   I took the Trump retweet as an example of  appriopriate behaviour from a bully  or at worst  a clueless douche.    

I find it disturbing that the President of the United States is either a Bully or a clueless douche.  

[andi9899]

Sept 18, 2017 20:03:30 GMT -5 dondub said:

She is a 'D' lister.

So because she's not an A lister that somehow changes the level of impropriety of her behavior?

[swasat]

Sept 19, 2017 17:30:59 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Not influenced by adults around them at all?

Have you been to schools lately? They discuss politics, and current events and local and government events. My kids are 12 and 9, and YES, they had their own opinions about candidates in last year's elections. I loved that they had these constructive debates and mock elections in school.

I encouraged them to research and read and make their own opinions. They watched the presidential debate as well. Again, with approval and without input from us.

And whats wrong by being influenced by adults around you? They are growing up in the household which holds certain beliefs. They will obviously be influenced some. As parents our job is to encourage them to develop their own views by giving them discussion opportunities.

[dondub]

 So because she's not an A lister that somehow changes the level of impropriety of her behavior?

Why would you think that? She considers herself D level and I was just pointing that out to the poster that said B.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Neither was right, but I can try to explain why I felt what KG did was so much worse. When I saw what she did, it brought to my mind the beheading of Americans by ISIS. It made light of that, in my opinion. It isn't comedic material. It's awful and disgusting and heinous. I know everyone doesn't agree. I'm just trying to explain one of the reasons that image conjured up so much more outrage in me. 

With the golf ball thing? Meh. It's in poor taste and should never EVER be posted by the President of the United States. I did not see the video but am simply going by what others have said. If it had shown her head being split open and brains leaki...never mind. If it showed her head being split open and being killed - I would have had a stronger reaction.  I'm no more offended by violence against women than I am violence against men - and no less offended either.  It's all awful.  And if I spent time expressing disgust about everything he does that is in poor taste, it would be a full time job.

I don't like either of them but my own personal sense of outrage was much stronger with one than the other.  However, neither or them should have done what they did.  And I do agree with others that the President should have exercised more common sense.  We all know that's not going to happen because he doesn't have any at all.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2017 7:43:06 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Well, if you think Trump never grabbed pu$$y you're living in a dream world, Richard. I read one woman's experience of how she was standing on the street in Manhattan trying to wave down a cab when Trump and a couple of his buddies came out of a restaurant, and Trump reached over and grabbed her breast, while he and his buddies laughed. He grabbed some woman he didn't know from Adam on a public street, and laughed at her shocked and outraged expression of disbelief.

And you're still missing the point. Comedians = paid to say stupid shit, sometimes really snarky shit, no one cares because they're comedians and don't matter. POTUS = representative of the US to the rest of the world, expected to present a very high, dignified standard of conduct because he is constantly under scrutiny from friends and enemies alike, his word can make the stock market rise or fall, etc etc - he should never stoop to forwarding crass memes on the internet. He should be above that. But our POTUS, like the spoiled rich frat kid he is, can't control himself, not when it comes to groping women, and not when it comes to forwarding inflammatory, crude, racist, mean or simply WRONG shit on the internet.

You're stuck on 'which is worse, holding up the head of a POTUS or hitting a former secretary of state in the ass with a golf ball' when the question is actually 'which person is failing most miserably in their chosen profession.'  I've never thought Griffin was much of a comedian, but obnoxious political commentary is pretty much a given, with comedians. Trump, on the other hand, should be ashamed at how significantly he has debased the American presidency in the world with his coarse and crude behavior.  Should be, but he won't, because he judges himself on how hilarious the other frat boys think he's being, and in that respect, he's winning.

If he did, please provide that little thing we like to call PROOF.

I could go out and say "happyhoix molested me several years ago"... wouldn't make it true though... would it? Nope. (well... since I don't lie, I actually couldn't do that... but you understand the point I'm making). 

And I'm not "stuck" on anything except exposing lies as what they are... lies.
In the photoshopped image, Clinton was hit in the BACK (not the head, nor the ass... the BACK). and it was all photoshopped. KG's decapitated head, on the other hand, was a DECAPITATED HEAD in her actual hand (granted, it was a dummy head, but it wasn't photoshopped in). Meaning someone needs to be DEAD. It's astounding to me that some people can't grasp the difference between showing someone getting knocked over versus someone getting knocked off.

I do agree that Trump should be ashamed of how he's acted... BUT (and this is the kicker) I don't expect him to realize that he should be ashamed. He's too much of a narcissistic egomaniac. Anyone that doesn't know this as well has also not been paying attention.

We need to accept who he is and how he acts and stop expecting him to suddenly turn into the resurrected John F Kennedy. You say "well, she's a comedian, it's expected of her"... well... he's an egotistical asshole... His action is kind of expected of him.



All that said though... he's still a better option than Hillary (you know I had to include that... right?)

[nittanycheme]

Sept 19, 2017 19:59:28 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 19, 2017 8:04:40 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

OK, let me put it this way - should the POTUS be forwarding tasteless memes about hitting a woman in the head with a golf ball? Are you trying to argue that what he did was less offensive than what a comedian, well known for her crass and tasteless brand of humor, posted?

The 'apple' here is that the POTUS should behave in a dignified manner and not stoop to juvenile name calling. Can you think of a time Bush Jr or Obama retweeted something offensive while they were POTUS, no matter how racist or mean someone was to them? That's what the POTUS is supposed to do, and that's what Trump claimed he would start doing, once he won the election - but he's still the same pouty, defensive, willing-to-forward-any-racist-sexist-mean-bullshit one of his Trumpettes forwards to him that he was when he chanted 'lock her up' on the campaign trail.

He does this to play to his base, who delight in their coarse, racist, pu$$y grabbing bully president, but it's unseemly and demeans the office, and will leave a stain on the office even after he's left it.

For a comedian, however, being off color, coarse and mean is pretty much what a lot of them do - it's what they get paid to do. That's the apple and orange part for you.

Bolded: You must have missed point #3a.

Yes, what he did was less offensive than what KG did.

Anyone that believes Trump will act in a dignified manner is living in a dream world... and again, he never "grabbed pu$$y" (I wish people would quit accusing him of it) that anyone knows of and has proof of (not including consensual acts between adults while doing adult activities... I'm sure groin-area grabbing was occurring by both sides then).

There's a line you don't cross... even for a comedian. Suggesting death for our President, no matter how much you hate them, is over that line, and not "just by a smidge" either. It's WAY over the line.

There didn't seem to be that level of outrage as Obama was hanged and/or burned in effigy in various places around the country throughout his time as president.  That is just as offensive, and even more so since they didn't do it under any illusions that it was a joke or being funny.

[weltschmerz]

Sept 20, 2017 20:55:41 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 20, 2017 7:43:06 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Well, if you think Trump never grabbed pu$$y you're living in a dream world, Richard. I read one woman's experience of how she was standing on the street in Manhattan trying to wave down a cab when Trump and a couple of his buddies came out of a restaurant, and Trump reached over and grabbed her breast, while he and his buddies laughed. He grabbed some woman he didn't know from Adam on a public street, and laughed at her shocked and outraged expression of disbelief.

And you're still missing the point. Comedians = paid to say stupid shit, sometimes really snarky shit, no one cares because they're comedians and don't matter. POTUS = representative of the US to the rest of the world, expected to present a very high, dignified standard of conduct because he is constantly under scrutiny from friends and enemies alike, his word can make the stock market rise or fall, etc etc - he should never stoop to forwarding crass memes on the internet. He should be above that. But our POTUS, like the spoiled rich frat kid he is, can't control himself, not when it comes to groping women, and not when it comes to forwarding inflammatory, crude, racist, mean or simply WRONG shit on the internet.

You're stuck on 'which is worse, holding up the head of a POTUS or hitting a former secretary of state in the ass with a golf ball' when the question is actually 'which person is failing most miserably in their chosen profession.'  I've never thought Griffin was much of a comedian, but obnoxious political commentary is pretty much a given, with comedians. Trump, on the other hand, should be ashamed at how significantly he has debased the American presidency in the world with his coarse and crude behavior.  Should be, but he won't, because he judges himself on how hilarious the other frat boys think he's being, and in that respect, he's winning.

If he did, please provide that little thing we like to call PROOF.

I could go out and say "happyhoix molested me several years ago"... wouldn't make it true though... would it? Nope. (well... since I don't lie, I actually couldn't do that... but you understand the point I'm making). 

And I'm not "stuck" on anything except exposing lies as what they are... lies.
In the photoshopped image, Clinton was hit in the BACK (not the head, nor the ass... the BACK). and it was all photoshopped. KG's decapitated head, on the other hand, was a DECAPITATED HEAD in her actual hand (granted, it was a dummy head, but it wasn't photoshopped in). Meaning someone needs to be DEAD. It's astounding to me that some people can't grasp the difference between showing someone getting knocked over versus someone getting knocked off.

I do agree that Trump should be ashamed of how he's acted... BUT (and this is the kicker) I don't expect him to realize that he should be ashamed. He's too much of a narcissistic egomaniac. Anyone that doesn't know this as well has also not been paying attention.

We need to accept who he is and how he acts and stop expecting him to suddenly turn into the resurrected John F Kennedy. You say "well, she's a comedian, it's expected of her"... well... he's an egotistical asshole... His action is kind of expected of him.



All that said though... he's still a better option than Hillary (you know I had to include that... right?)

It's astounding to ME that some people can't grasp the difference between an insult comic and the highest office in the land.
Whether he thought of it or just retweeted, (both are just as bad, despite your defense of him because "it wasn't his idea.")
One is a comedian, and a bad one, at that
The other is the supposed to be the "leader of the free world". Retweeting something he found from Fuckdupmind, advocating violence towards women, is beyond the pale.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2017 21:48:12 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Sept 20, 2017 20:55:41 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

If he did, please provide that little thing we like to call PROOF.

I could go out and say "happyhoix molested me several years ago"... wouldn't make it true though... would it? Nope. (well... since I don't lie, I actually couldn't do that... but you understand the point I'm making). 

And I'm not "stuck" on anything except exposing lies as what they are... lies.
In the photoshopped image, Clinton was hit in the BACK (not the head, nor the ass... the BACK). and it was all photoshopped. KG's decapitated head, on the other hand, was a DECAPITATED HEAD in her actual hand (granted, it was a dummy head, but it wasn't photoshopped in). Meaning someone needs to be DEAD. It's astounding to me that some people can't grasp the difference between showing someone getting knocked over versus someone getting knocked off.

I do agree that Trump should be ashamed of how he's acted... BUT (and this is the kicker) I don't expect him to realize that he should be ashamed. He's too much of a narcissistic egomaniac. Anyone that doesn't know this as well has also not been paying attention.

We need to accept who he is and how he acts and stop expecting him to suddenly turn into the resurrected John F Kennedy. You say "well, she's a comedian, it's expected of her"... well... he's an egotistical asshole... His action is kind of expected of him.



All that said though... he's still a better option than Hillary (you know I had to include that... right?)

It's astounding to ME that some people can't grasp the difference between an insult comic and the highest office in the land.
Whether he thought of it or just retweeted, (both are just as bad, despite your defense of him because "it wasn't his idea.")
One is a comedian, and a bad one, at that
The other is the supposed to be the "leader of the free world". Retweeting something he found from Fuckdupmind, advocating violence towards women, is beyond the pale.

Why do you make shit up?

There was no "advocating violence against women" in that. It was his opponent. He knocked over his opponent. It would have been the same level of stupid if Bernie had won the nomination and then a meme of him getting hit by a golf ball and "knocked over" (if he'd been caught on camera tripping) had been posted. I suppose then if that had happened you'd think it was "advocating violence against the elderly".

This is why no one takes Trump's opposition seriously. They make shit up even when there's plenty of actually true crap about the man to get outraged over.

I don't get the point of manufacturing more (and doing such a crappy job that anyone with a brain can see right through it). Seriously. What's the point?


And for the record, I understand the difference between "an insult comic and the highest office in the land". What an amazingly large amount of people can't seem to grasp is the difference between the OFFICE and the PERSON IN THE office. Yes, he sucks in the office, but the office will survive. He will be gone in (hopefully) ~3.25 years. After he's gone (whenever that is) hopefully America can use their brains and not blindly vote for a "D" or an "R"... but someone actually qualified to be in the office.

[Opti]

Sept 20, 2017 20:55:41 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 20, 2017 7:43:06 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Well, if you think Trump never grabbed pu$$y you're living in a dream world, Richard. I read one woman's experience of how she was standing on the street in Manhattan trying to wave down a cab when Trump and a couple of his buddies came out of a restaurant, and Trump reached over and grabbed her breast, while he and his buddies laughed. He grabbed some woman he didn't know from Adam on a public street, and laughed at her shocked and outraged expression of disbelief.

And you're still missing the point. Comedians = paid to say stupid shit, sometimes really snarky shit, no one cares because they're comedians and don't matter. POTUS = representative of the US to the rest of the world, expected to present a very high, dignified standard of conduct because he is constantly under scrutiny from friends and enemies alike, his word can make the stock market rise or fall, etc etc - he should never stoop to forwarding crass memes on the internet. He should be above that. But our POTUS, like the spoiled rich frat kid he is, can't control himself, not when it comes to groping women, and not when it comes to forwarding inflammatory, crude, racist, mean or simply WRONG shit on the internet.

You're stuck on 'which is worse, holding up the head of a POTUS or hitting a former secretary of state in the ass with a golf ball' when the question is actually 'which person is failing most miserably in their chosen profession.'  I've never thought Griffin was much of a comedian, but obnoxious political commentary is pretty much a given, with comedians. Trump, on the other hand, should be ashamed at how significantly he has debased the American presidency in the world with his coarse and crude behavior.  Should be, but he won't, because he judges himself on how hilarious the other frat boys think he's being, and in that respect, he's winning.

If he did, please provide that little thing we like to call PROOF.

I could go out and say "happyhoix molested me several years ago"... wouldn't make it true though... would it? Nope. (well... since I don't lie, I actually couldn't do that... but you understand the point I'm making). 

And I'm not "stuck" on anything except exposing lies as what they are... lies.
In the photoshopped image, Clinton was hit in the BACK (not the head, nor the ass... the BACK). and it was all photoshopped. KG's decapitated head, on the other hand, was a DECAPITATED HEAD in her actual hand (granted, it was a dummy head, but it wasn't photoshopped in). Meaning someone needs to be DEAD. It's astounding to me that some people can't grasp the difference between showing someone getting knocked over versus someone getting knocked off.

I do agree that Trump should be ashamed of how he's acted... BUT (and this is the kicker) I don't expect him to realize that he should be ashamed. He's too much of a narcissistic egomaniac. Anyone that doesn't know this as well has also not been paying attention.

We need to accept who he is and how he acts and stop expecting him to suddenly turn into the resurrected John F Kennedy. You say "well, she's a comedian, it's expected of her"... well... he's an egotistical asshole... His action is kind of expected of him.



All that said though... he's still a better option than Hillary (you know I had to include that... right?)

I totally disagree with you on this point, because it was a mask, yes of a head but a mask nonetheless. It was missing two things real life decapitated heads have - eyes and a neck. No one has to be dead to hold a mask even holding it like a beheaded head. You and others IMO are so fixated on what it appears to be, you ignore what KG was trying to have it represent - Trump bleeding out of his whatever. Not because he was headless, but just to mock him. They were both dumb enough to think their intentions mattered more than how the image would be seen by others. (Photog and KG)

The mask was an approximation of Trump, it didn't even look much like him to me. The photo-shopped image of Clinton being hit however, was taken from an actual image of Clinton. If a golf ball did hit you hard enough to knock you to the ground, I would expect there would be more damage than a simple bruise. A hard shot to the kidney could hospitalize or kill you, so I don't see it as harmless as you do. YM does vary.

[andi9899]

Sept 21, 2017 1:23:53 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 20, 2017 21:48:12 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

It's astounding to ME that some people can't grasp the difference between an insult comic and the highest office in the land.
Whether he thought of it or just retweeted, (both are just as bad, despite your defense of him because "it wasn't his idea.")
One is a comedian, and a bad one, at that
The other is the supposed to be the "leader of the free world". Retweeting something he found from Fuckdupmind, advocating violence towards women, is beyond the pale.

Why do you make shit up?

There was no "advocating violence against women" in that. It was his opponent. He knocked over his opponent. It would have been the same level of stupid if Bernie had won the nomination and then a meme of him getting hit by a golf ball and "knocked over" (if he'd been caught on camera tripping) had been posted. I suppose then if that had happened you'd think it was "advocating violence against the elderly".

This is why no one takes Trump's opposition seriously. They make shit up even when there's plenty of actually true crap about the man to get outraged over.

I don't get the point of manufacturing more (and doing such a crappy job that anyone with a brain can see right through it). Seriously. What's the point?


And for the record, I understand the difference between "an insult comic and the highest office in the land". What an amazingly large amount of people can't seem to grasp is the difference between the OFFICE and the PERSON IN THE office. Yes, he sucks in the office, but the office will survive. He will be gone in (hopefully) ~3.25 years. After he's gone (whenever that is) hopefully America can use their brains and not blindly vote for a "D" or an "R"... but someone actually qualified to be in the office.

He absolutely advocated violence against women. What do you think hitting them with an object is? Maybe it's just me because I come from a family where men don't hit women. I don't have boys but my nephew knows that if I ever hear about him.putting his hands on a female that I will destroy him. The fact that I'm half his size doesn't matter. And IMO the POTUS should be setting an example not only for men in America, but for everyone. KG is a has been. Not that her behavior was less inappropriate because of that fact, but DT really should be more conscious of his behavior given the office that he occupies.

[zibazinski]

He needs to stop using social media. I get why he does because he feels the media will twist what he says but someone needs to "vet" what he says before it goes out. She never was anything special and just needs to be ignored. 

[OldCoyote]

Sept 20, 2017 20:55:41 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 20, 2017 7:43:06 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Well, if you think Trump never grabbed pu$$y you're living in a dream world, Richard. I read one woman's experience of how she was standing on the street in Manhattan trying to wave down a cab when Trump and a couple of his buddies came out of a restaurant, and Trump reached over and grabbed her breast, while he and his buddies laughed. He grabbed some woman he didn't know from Adam on a public street, and laughed at her shocked and outraged expression of disbelief.

And you're still missing the point. Comedians = paid to say stupid shit, sometimes really snarky shit, no one cares because they're comedians and don't matter. POTUS = representative of the US to the rest of the world, expected to present a very high, dignified standard of conduct because he is constantly under scrutiny from friends and enemies alike, his word can make the stock market rise or fall, etc etc - he should never stoop to forwarding crass memes on the internet. He should be above that. But our POTUS, like the spoiled rich frat kid he is, can't control himself, not when it comes to groping women, and not when it comes to forwarding inflammatory, crude, racist, mean or simply WRONG shit on the internet.

You're stuck on 'which is worse, holding up the head of a POTUS or hitting a former secretary of state in the ass with a golf ball' when the question is actually 'which person is failing most miserably in their chosen profession.'  I've never thought Griffin was much of a comedian, but obnoxious political commentary is pretty much a given, with comedians. Trump, on the other hand, should be ashamed at how significantly he has debased the American presidency in the world with his coarse and crude behavior.  Should be, but he won't, because he judges himself on how hilarious the other frat boys think he's being, and in that respect, he's winning.

If he did, please provide that little thing we like to call PROOF.

I could go out and say "happyhoix molested me several years ago"... wouldn't make it true though... would it? Nope. (well... since I don't lie, I actually couldn't do that... but you understand the point I'm making). 

And I'm not "stuck" on anything except exposing lies as what they are... lies.
In the photoshopped image, Clinton was hit in the BACK (not the head, nor the ass... the BACK). and it was all photoshopped. KG's decapitated head, on the other hand, was a DECAPITATED HEAD in her actual hand (granted, it was a dummy head, but it wasn't photoshopped in). Meaning someone needs to be DEAD. It's astounding to me that some people can't grasp the difference between showing someone getting knocked over versus someone getting knocked off.

I do agree that Trump should be ashamed of how he's acted... BUT (and this is the kicker) I don't expect him to realize that he should be ashamed. He's too much of a narcissistic egomaniac. Anyone that doesn't know this as well has also not been paying attention.

We need to accept who he is and how he acts and stop expecting him to suddenly turn into the resurrected John F Kennedy. You say "well, she's a comedian, it's expected of her"... well... he's an egotistical asshole... His action is kind of expected of him.



All that said though... he's still a better option than Hillary (you know I had to include that... right?)

It has to be true, cause I read it here!!

[OldCoyote]

A couple of years back, I was at a friend home, listening to them, talking back and forth between each other, Both these women are in the late thirties, well educated, both are Drs.

The entire time they were bickering back and forth, like a couple of pre teens!

Now on this thread I see well educated people bickering back and forth like a couple of pre teens!

 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Sept 21, 2017 7:31:29 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

He needs to stop using social media. I get why he does because he feels the media will twist what he says but someone needs to "vet" what he says before it goes out. She never was anything special and just needs to be ignored. 

100% agree. But he's not going to stop. He doesn't care. Meanwhile, people are going to exhaust themselves, freaking out about every single thing he does/says, which just adds fuel to his fire. 

Agree this wasn't a case of advocating violence against women. That's just another hysterical leap towards making things worse than they already are. Mrs. Clinton happens to be a woman, but nothing would have changed if his opponent had been a man. That's just ridiculous.   It's a lame attempt to make this look worse than it was - which was bad enough in the first place.  Not enough outrage generated?  We'll scream "rape culture" or "violence against women" or "racist" or whatever the whine du jour of the day is.

I don't think many people care what Ms. Griffin's "intent" was.  The crap about making fun of "bleeding out her whatever" is meaningless and not even a talking point. I don't think anybody who is offended by what she did cares what her intent was.  They care about the results.  My "intent" may be to just get through the light before it turns red but if I hit someone and kill them, my "intent" doesn't mean squat.   

[happyhoix]

Sept 21, 2017 1:23:53 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 20, 2017 21:48:12 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

It's astounding to ME that some people can't grasp the difference between an insult comic and the highest office in the land.
Whether he thought of it or just retweeted, (both are just as bad, despite your defense of him because "it wasn't his idea.")
One is a comedian, and a bad one, at that
The other is the supposed to be the "leader of the free world". Retweeting something he found from Fuckdupmind, advocating violence towards women, is beyond the pale.

Why do you make shit up?

There was no "advocating violence against women" in that. It was his opponent. He knocked over his opponent. It would have been the same level of stupid if Bernie had won the nomination and then a meme of him getting hit by a golf ball and "knocked over" (if he'd been caught on camera tripping) had been posted. I suppose then if that had happened you'd think it was "advocating violence against the elderly".

This is why no one takes Trump's opposition seriously. They make shit up even when there's plenty of actually true crap about the man to get outraged over.

I don't get the point of manufacturing more (and doing such a crappy job that anyone with a brain can see right through it). Seriously. What's the point?


And for the record, I understand the difference between "an insult comic and the highest office in the land". What an amazingly large amount of people can't seem to grasp is the difference between the OFFICE and the PERSON IN THE office. Yes, he sucks in the office, but the office will survive. He will be gone in (hopefully) ~3.25 years. After he's gone (whenever that is) hopefully America can use their brains and not blindly vote for a "D" or an "R"... but someone actually qualified to be in the office.

That would be true if we were a monarchy. You get whatever the last king and queen birthed, for better or worse. Unfortunately for us, we vote our leaders in, and the POTUS then becomes the public representative for America.  When the current POTUS denigrates women, or religious or cultural minorities, or when he flip flops on issues, or shouts 'lock her up' or 'build the wall' - the world sees that and judges the rest of us, because we're supposedly the greatest democracy in the world, and this is what we voted into office.

And seriously, if you think suddenly, on the first day the next POTUS takes office, everyone around the world will breath a sigh of relief and forget everything that went before, you're very mistaken.  Good presidents, if they're fortunate, can leave a lasting positive legacy that is recognized around the world. Bad presidents leave a taint that takes decades to remove - it reduces us in the eyes of the international community.

[Deleted]

Sept 21, 2017 5:40:09 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sept 20, 2017 20:55:41 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

If he did, please provide that little thing we like to call PROOF.

I could go out and say "happyhoix molested me several years ago"... wouldn't make it true though... would it? Nope. (well... since I don't lie, I actually couldn't do that... but you understand the point I'm making). 

And I'm not "stuck" on anything except exposing lies as what they are... lies.
In the photoshopped image, Clinton was hit in the BACK (not the head, nor the ass... the BACK). and it was all photoshopped. KG's decapitated head, on the other hand, was a DECAPITATED HEAD in her actual hand (granted, it was a dummy head, but it wasn't photoshopped in). Meaning someone needs to be DEAD. It's astounding to me that some people can't grasp the difference between showing someone getting knocked over versus someone getting knocked off.

I do agree that Trump should be ashamed of how he's acted... BUT (and this is the kicker) I don't expect him to realize that he should be ashamed. He's too much of a narcissistic egomaniac. Anyone that doesn't know this as well has also not been paying attention.

We need to accept who he is and how he acts and stop expecting him to suddenly turn into the resurrected John F Kennedy. You say "well, she's a comedian, it's expected of her"... well... he's an egotistical asshole... His action is kind of expected of him.



All that said though... he's still a better option than Hillary (you know I had to include that... right?)

I totally disagree with you on this point, because it was a mask, yes of a head but a mask nonetheless. It was missing two things real life decapitated heads have - eyes and a neck. No one has to be dead to hold a mask even holding it like a beheaded head. You and others IMO are so fixated on what it appears to be, you ignore what KG was trying to have it represent - Trump bleeding out of his whatever. Not because he was headless, but just to mock him. They were both dumb enough to think their intentions mattered more than how the image would be seen by others. (Photog and KG)

The mask was an approximation of Trump, it didn't even look much like him to me. The photo-shopped image of Clinton being hit however, was taken from an actual image of Clinton. If a golf ball did hit you hard enough to knock you to the ground, I would expect there would be more damage than a simple bruise. A hard shot to the kidney could hospitalize or kill you, so I don't see it as harmless as you do. YM does vary.

Disagree all you want. All it does is show that you don't understand the difference between knocking someone down and killing someone.

And I don't ignore what KG may say that she was trying to represent. What I also do though is, I accept what she succeeded in representing: Donald Trump, beheaded. What she might say she was "trying to" represent is irrelevant considering how clear the message was that she succeeded in getting out.

[Deleted]

Sept 21, 2017 6:50:16 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Sept 21, 2017 1:23:53 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Why do you make shit up?

There was no "advocating violence against women" in that. It was his opponent. He knocked over his opponent. It would have been the same level of stupid if Bernie had won the nomination and then a meme of him getting hit by a golf ball and "knocked over" (if he'd been caught on camera tripping) had been posted. I suppose then if that had happened you'd think it was "advocating violence against the elderly".

This is why no one takes Trump's opposition seriously. They make shit up even when there's plenty of actually true crap about the man to get outraged over.

I don't get the point of manufacturing more (and doing such a crappy job that anyone with a brain can see right through it). Seriously. What's the point?


And for the record, I understand the difference between "an insult comic and the highest office in the land". What an amazingly large amount of people can't seem to grasp is the difference between the OFFICE and the PERSON IN THE office. Yes, he sucks in the office, but the office will survive. He will be gone in (hopefully) ~3.25 years. After he's gone (whenever that is) hopefully America can use their brains and not blindly vote for a "D" or an "R"... but someone actually qualified to be in the office.

He absolutely advocated violence against women. What do you think hitting them with an object is? Maybe it's just me because I come from a family where men don't hit women. I don't have boys but my nephew knows that if I ever hear about him.putting his hands on a female that I will destroy him. The fact that I'm half his size doesn't matter. And IMO the POTUS should be setting an example not only for men in America, but for everyone. KG is a has been. Not that her behavior was less inappropriate because of that fact, but DT really should be more conscious of his behavior given the office that he occupies.

Give me a break.

This wasn't "beating his wife" or "raping unknown women" or anything that's actually "violence against women". This was (as I already pointed out) a meme about the point of "knocking over the opposition". It just so happens that in THIS CASE the opposition was a woman. As I said it would have been just as stupid if it were a man in the clip, had a man been Trump's opponent... want to bet that you wouldn't have mislabeled that as "violence against men" though? I'd bet money that you wouldn't have.