Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 10, 2017 13:23:16 GMT -5
I live in a similar COLA to tractor. In fact, I think he's only a couple hours away. It took me my whole career to get up to $40k. I tell ya, if my DH made $70k, we'd be set. That's about what we made combined when we got married. At $90k? Anything more would be gravy. I'm probably around the same age as his DW, too, and I tell ya, mid-life crisis is nothing to be trifled with. A step-back in pay is still way cheaper than a divorce. Now, if they were barely making it, it would be completely different, obviously. But there are more important things than the almighty dollar--especially when the marginal benefit from the extra dollar may be a net negative when it comes to household happiness. Household happiness, or the wife's happiness? Because it sure looks like tractor is quite unhappy about it. I said net negative--extreme unhappiness for DW to continue job she hates, for Tractor's mild satisfaction with paying off a few debts early.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 10, 2017 13:27:32 GMT -5
Tractor.....has your wife ever been physically harmed at her job? Has physical harm been threatened? Yes, fights in the classroom can be common, she is expected to break them up. She has only been assaulted once, a student threw a book at her. The worse scare was when an boy in restraints smashed his head through the door glass so her could hurl profanities at her.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 13:28:05 GMT -5
You don't know that she hasn't been telling him that she needs out for the last 2 years and it has reached a point where she needs out NOW for her self preservation. It doesn't sound like he has been listening. Also, I seriously doubt that she'd pick up another job making $70K in a LCOL area that isn't a job that entails a lot of stress with her education and experience. Saying "I want a new job" is not the same as saying "I'm going to take a new job for $30k less whether you like it or not, just a heads up for you".
I'm not sure why you think her SAYING it (even if she did) should somehow morph into them agreeing to it as a couple.
I can say to my wife every day for 2 years that I'm just going to quit my job and be a vagabond...that doesn't mean that when I do it she should just shut up and deal with it because I told her I was going to. Saying something doesn't magically make that an agreement.
So does she need to have a heart attack ? Does she need a bleeding ulcer? How about stroke out from hypertension? Stress causes all these physical manifestations, and more and this is not accounting for whether or not she has been in the line of attack from her students and been injured or threatened. How much more does she need to take? She has been looking for a job for 2 years (so this is obviously not a spur of the moment idea), and this job is one that alleviates stress for her. She is not quitting her job to become a vagabond, she is stepping back. The wrong thing to do would have been to walk out of her job with nothing. She's not doing that.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 13:30:18 GMT -5
Saying "I want a new job" is not the same as saying "I'm going to take a new job for $30k less whether you like it or not, just a heads up for you".
I'm not sure why you think her SAYING it (even if she did) should somehow morph into them agreeing to it as a couple.
I can say to my wife every day for 2 years that I'm just going to quit my job and be a vagabond...that doesn't mean that when I do it she should just shut up and deal with it because I told her I was going to. Saying something doesn't magically make that an agreement.
So does she need to have a heart attack ? Does she need a bleeding ulcer? How about stroke out from hypertension? Stress causes all these physical manifestations, and more and this is not accounting for whether or not she has been in the line of attack from her students and been injured or threatened. How much more does she need to take? She has been looking for a job for 2 years (so this is obviously not a spur of the moment idea), and this job is one that alleviates stress for her. She is not quitting her job to become a vagabond, she is stepping back. The wrong thing to do would have been to walk out of her job with nothing. She's not doing that. What indication has there been that her health is at risk? You're simply making that up to try to exaggerate the dramatics you continue to insert into the situation.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 13:30:45 GMT -5
Tractor.....has your wife ever been physically harmed at her job? Has physical harm been threatened? Yes, fights in the classroom can be common, she is expected to break them up. She has only been assaulted once, a student threw a book at her. The worse scare was when an boy in restraints smashed his head through the door glass so her could hurl profanities at her. JHC! And you don't see how this is stressful enough to want to walk away from it? She is very lucky that she hasn't been injured. What happens if she winds up being thrown to the ground and breaking a bone? Is that what it's going to take? Or getting hit by a book or an errant fist in a fight?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 13:31:21 GMT -5
So does she need to have a heart attack ? Does she need a bleeding ulcer? How about stroke out from hypertension? Stress causes all these physical manifestations, and more and this is not accounting for whether or not she has been in the line of attack from her students and been injured or threatened. How much more does she need to take? She has been looking for a job for 2 years (so this is obviously not a spur of the moment idea), and this job is one that alleviates stress for her. She is not quitting her job to become a vagabond, she is stepping back. The wrong thing to do would have been to walk out of her job with nothing. She's not doing that. What indication has there been that her health is at risk? You're simply making that up to try to exaggerate the dramatics you continue to insert into the situation. Yes, fights in the classroom can be common, she is expected to break them up. She has only been assaulted once, a student threw a book at her. The worse scare was when an boy in restraints smashed his head through the door glass so her could hurl profanities at her.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 13:32:30 GMT -5
Saying "I want a new job" is not the same as saying "I'm going to take a new job for $30k less whether you like it or not, just a heads up for you".
I'm not sure why you think her SAYING it (even if she did) should somehow morph into them agreeing to it as a couple.
I can say to my wife every day for 2 years that I'm just going to quit my job and be a vagabond...that doesn't mean that when I do it she should just shut up and deal with it because I told her I was going to. Saying something doesn't magically make that an agreement.
So does she need to have a heart attack ? Does she need a bleeding ulcer? How about stroke out from hypertension? Stress causes all these physical manifestations, and more and this is not accounting for whether or not she has been in the line of attack from her students and been injured or threatened. How much more does she need to take? She has been looking for a job for 2 years (so this is obviously not a spur of the moment idea), and this job is one that alleviates stress for her. She is not quitting her job to become a vagabond, she is stepping back. The wrong thing to do would have been to walk out of her job with nothing. She's not doing that. Good lord...most of us have stress in our lives! It is how we choose to handle the stress that matters.
No one is saying she needs to stay at her job. But taking a $30k paycut is not a decision she should be able to make on her own. And the idea that she should be able to just do that and depend on tractor is a definite reason to never get married....I would be quite pissed if a spouse did that to me.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 10, 2017 13:32:59 GMT -5
I'm too late to this thread to catch up or chime in with anything that likely hasn't been said. We've got some debt on 0% cards that we will pay off in the next 12 months before interest kicks in and a spur of the moment trip only added to that. I hate having debt like this and would prefer to only have a mortgage and possibly car loan when the time comes. That said as much as I hate the debt my wife's happiness trumps that. I told her before we were married that when she was miserable at her job if she she was that unhappy to quit and find something else because we could financially make it work. She didn't want to do that which is commendable and luckily she found a job in her chosen career field not long after and she's been much happier. Now if it's a matter of taking a pay cut that has the family making less than what they have (as in mortgage, food and required expenses) to spend to survive that's one situation where I would want to re-evaluate that choice and see if there's a better one out there. Helping your kids through school is great but we'll set aside what we can and they're on the hook for anything beyond that. The best thing we can do for them is not be financially dependent on them when we're retired. Donations are admirable but to me paying debt off first would be a priority. That said it just goes to show that we all have different priorities and value certain things above others.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 10, 2017 13:33:34 GMT -5
So she is moving to a school schedule? Or will she still teach year round? She will be moving to a normal school schedule.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 13:33:42 GMT -5
This is directly from the OP
She wanted a new job and recently applied for and was offered a new job, at a less financially secure school district.
Now who is being melodramatic? The OP says she applied, interviewed and got offered the position. Not that she went behind tractor's back quit her job and told tractor "ha ha screw you now you have to support me". Tractor knows she has been applying for jobs and interviewing. For two years no less. This happens to be the first one that resulted in an offer. I must be the only person on the planet who has applied for and interviewed for positions where I didn't find out till much later in the process that the salary, hours or benefits weren't that great and then had to make a decision. She hasn't accepted the offer. She's telling tractor she wants to take it. She came to him with the OFFER, not an acceptance letter and a start date along wit her last paycheck. She hasn't done anything"behind his back" as far as I can tell.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 13:34:03 GMT -5
Does she continue teaching during the summer and other holidays? I'm sorry but no way is she working that many hours. Stressful job, yes, but my aunt taught children with severe autism for over 30 years. She worked a lot of hours to avoid my uncle and their home life, not because her job required it. She teaches year around. Because it is a residential program, they can't stop school in the summer like you would in a normal school. She does get periodic time off, but nothing like you would think. I guessed the year around part given the discrepancy between the salary she is earning now and the salary she can get from her new job. And therein may lie the problem and solution. She gets very little down time from this job. She and Tractor can't even vacation together. Her job is consuming her life for relatively little money. Did someone say $14 an hour is what she is really making? I made almost that as a sales associate with Macy's. zibazinski , you keep making remarks about how inefficient she is. When is she supposed to do the mountain of paperwork associated with her job? She can't do it when she is teaching; you know better than that. And special education paperwork is extensive. You have to re-evaluate the students every year, which means testing, etc. You have to rewrite the IEPS. You have to hold meetings, often multiple ones, to get the IEP signed by the parents. If a change needs to be made, it requires another meeting. If she's actually in the classroom teaching, this is more cannot be done during the actual school day. I'm also willing to bet that she cannot bring the necessary records home with her because of confidentiality laws. I don't think she is literally working sixteen-hour days six days a week, but it is telling that it is Tractor describing the job that way. What he is saying is that she has no life other than her job. He recognizes the problem. He just thinks the $$$ are more important than his wife's needs. Anyway, if she has a more normal teaching job, maybe she can find a summer job each year to fill the salary gap. After all, Tractor isn't going to be home much. And she already isn't in the 70k job. There has to be a work/life balance, folks. It is not all about money.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 13:34:09 GMT -5
This thread is very sad. I care enough about my spouse that if he was stressed to the point, or had the possibility of being hurt, that I do not think I'd quibble over money if s/he felt that they needed to walk away for self preservation. Money isn't everything and when you have enough, then other things take priority.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 13:37:22 GMT -5
So does she need to have a heart attack ? Does she need a bleeding ulcer? How about stroke out from hypertension? Stress causes all these physical manifestations, and more and this is not accounting for whether or not she has been in the line of attack from her students and been injured or threatened. How much more does she need to take? She has been looking for a job for 2 years (so this is obviously not a spur of the moment idea), and this job is one that alleviates stress for her. She is not quitting her job to become a vagabond, she is stepping back. The wrong thing to do would have been to walk out of her job with nothing. She's not doing that. Good lord...most of us have stress in our lives! It is how we choose to handle the stress that matters.
No one is saying she needs to stay at her job. But taking a $30k paycut is not a decision she should be able to make on her own. And the idea that she should be able to just do that and depend on tractor is a definite reason to never get married....I would be quite pissed if a spouse did that to me.
How many fights do you break up? Do you have books thrown at you? Do you deal with coworkers in restraints? Not the same thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 13:39:09 GMT -5
So she is moving to a school schedule? Or will she still teach year round? She will be moving to a normal school schedule. So, ... duh. She isn't going to make the same money. But she could do a summer job. Or she could volunteer instead of giving $$... Or she could pick up slack at home... and decompress so not to be as stressed. Shes probably making MORE at her new job if you calculate it hourly. You might actualy get to vacation together.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 13:40:42 GMT -5
Now I need to ask DH if he thinks I am a horrible selfish person because he didn't even know I applied for the job I am interviewing for tomorrow till I had the interview in hand. Or am I good because this job would come with a significant pay raise? Which happens to be something I got lucky on. I applied solely because it would be a ticket out of academia for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 13:41:53 GMT -5
Mrs Tractor can handle stress. Probably better than combat vets.
23 years in EI court appointed Res... she's a superstar.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 10, 2017 13:42:19 GMT -5
Stress should be handled like men handle it. Drink excessively and die early.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 13:42:41 GMT -5
Now I need to ask DH if he thinks I am a horrible selfish person because he didn't even know I applied for the job I am interviewing for tomorrow till I had the interview in hand. Or am I good because this job would come with a significant pay raise? Which happens to be something I got lucky on. I applied solely because it would be a ticket out of academia for me. You are obviously a horrible selfish person because you don't voluntarily work an extra 20 hours a week to give to charity.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 13:43:52 GMT -5
Now I need to ask DH if he thinks I am a horrible selfish person because he didn't even know I applied for the job I am interviewing for tomorrow till I had the interview in hand. Or am I good because this job would come with a significant pay raise? Which happens to be something I got lucky on. I applied solely because it would be a ticket out of academia for me. You are obviously a horrible selfish person because you don't voluntarily work an extra 20 hours a week to give yo charity. I'm salaried so I'm not getting more money no matter how much I work. You must mean I need to get a part time job.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 10, 2017 13:52:05 GMT -5
So does she need to have a heart attack ? Does she need a bleeding ulcer? How about stroke out from hypertension? Stress causes all these physical manifestations, and more and this is not accounting for whether or not she has been in the line of attack from her students and been injured or threatened. How much more does she need to take? She has been looking for a job for 2 years (so this is obviously not a spur of the moment idea), and this job is one that alleviates stress for her. She is not quitting her job to become a vagabond, she is stepping back. The wrong thing to do would have been to walk out of her job with nothing. She's not doing that. Good lord...most of us have stress in our lives! It is how we choose to handle the stress that matters.
No one is saying she needs to stay at her job. But taking a $30k paycut is not a decision she should be able to make on her own. And the idea that she should be able to just do that and depend on tractor is a definite reason to never get married....I would be quite pissed if a spouse did that to me.
we are not reading the same thread.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 10, 2017 13:53:57 GMT -5
I also want to know this... if she got a promotion for $30k but it meant more stress and even less time at home, should THAT be a conversation? Or is it only if you appear to be "mooching"?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 14:04:46 GMT -5
Have you ever heard the term blood in the gutter? Its a comic book thing, how you don't really have to tell a whole story because people fill the gutters from experience... but depending on that experience, well, there could be a little or a lot of blood in that gutter.
Someone said about experience with the job mrs. t has and I tried to quote it but couldn't find it.
The reality is though. What I hear, from what I know of her job, from what tractor has said. is a woman saying:
I'm toast. I'm done. I can move on. Or I can fall off this cliff because I cannot continue to function in this capacity. My heart is broken, my soul is numb. I've done it for over two decades. I've done it over twice as long as almost any other human being in the position does. I've responsibly looked for an alternative for two years while trudging on. I have one now... an escape, maybe a way to live a life again that isn't weighted down by so much stress and horror that I have to spend all my free time trying to sleep off the depression and helplessness.
And I hear some of the rest of you saying, what a selfish bitch.
So yeah. We aren't going to get to a middle here.
tractor. Talk to your wife. Really talk to her. Let us know how it goes.
Maybe she can read this thread and tell us if we are all off track?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 14:05:13 GMT -5
Good lord...most of us have stress in our lives! It is how we choose to handle the stress that matters.
No one is saying she needs to stay at her job. But taking a $30k paycut is not a decision she should be able to make on her own. And the idea that she should be able to just do that and depend on tractor is a definite reason to never get married....I would be quite pissed if a spouse did that to me.
we are not reading the same thread. I'm not sure why. $30k is a huge chunk of change, at least in my area. hell, there are lots of jobs that only pay $30k in my area (I live in a lcola). So that is something that needs to be discussed and agreed on by both parties.
Would you think it is ok if Tractor just went out each year and spent $30k without his wife's approval? Because that is essentially the same thing. I'm not married but if I were and we had joint finances, I'm assuming it would not be ok for me to blow $30k without my partner's approval.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 14:06:42 GMT -5
I also want to know this... if she got a promotion for $30k but it meant more stress and even less time at home, should THAT be a conversation? Or is it only if you appear to be "mooching"? I think you already know the answer to that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 14:09:30 GMT -5
I also want to know this... if she got a promotion for $30k but it meant more stress and even less time at home, should THAT be a conversation? Or is it only if you appear to be "mooching"? A better way to ask that question is this: if she got a promotion for 30k but it meant more stress and even less time at home, should she be able to turn it down without asking her husband's permission? After all the impact that 30k could have on their life could be enormous. They could give more to charity, for example. Shouldn't she just suck it up for the team? They should talk it over and then let him decide. That is what a lot of you are arguing: she should be powerless over her own life and well-being. Most people would find it hard to walk away from 30k, so if she is doing so, there is a compelling reason. It is her health and well-being that is being risked. Sure, they should talk about it. Tractor's input should be respected. But ultimately she should have control over her own life. If Tractor is sufficiently unhappy with it, he will leave. If he doesn't, then he needs to make peace with the idea that it really is her decision to make, just as whether to stay or go is his.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 14:13:39 GMT -5
we are not reading the same thread. I'm not sure why. $30k is a huge chunk of change, at least in my area. hell, there are lots of jobs that only pay $30k in my area (I live in a lcola). So that is something that needs to be discussed and agreed on by both parties.
Would you think it is ok if Tractor just went out each year and spent $30k without his wife's approval? Because that is essentially the same thing. I'm not married but if I were and we had joint finances, I'm assuming it would not be ok for me to blow $30k without my partner's approval.
She hasn't blown anything! She got an OFFER. An offer, which according to the OP, she brought to her husband for discussion. She has not accepted it, she has not quit her current job. So I really do not understand how you are getting she did something behind his back that he did not agree to. Considering she has been hunting for 2 years and this is the only offer she's recieved indicates it's either a really small field or there is too much competition for what is out there which means employers can be picky. I do not blame her for seriously consider the job, it doesn't sound like she has a lot of options available. I suppose we could say she should retrain/go back to school then but if tractor is upset over her taking a job with a decrease in income he's probably not going to want to lose ground waiting for her to start over. The odds of retraining and stepping right into a higher paying job than she has right now are pretty much zero. And again this is apparently just me but if it came down to my spouse facing being stuck in a job he hates indefinetly vs cutting back on discretionary stuff/delaying debt pay off I would tell him to take it. DH's sanity and health is not worth a few extra dollars to me. Not if the household isn't going to suffer because of it. I do not consider not being able to give to charity or expecting my adult children to figure out how to pay for whatever I am not covering for college as "suffering".
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 10, 2017 14:14:22 GMT -5
I'm assuming there is a benefit to Mrs. T not working crazy hours... like her being home to do more around the house - making life less stressful for all. I know you would rather just have the extra money and pay someone else to clean, etc. but maybe Tractor doesn't feel that way? If they needed every dollar, then I'd say for sure she needs to stay put in her current job, at least for now. But if they are doing well and just have to cut back on charity... sorry, but I don't think Tractor's desire to give a lot to charity should trump his wife's mental health and physical safety. I imagine most people would feel that way about their spouse.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 14:14:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure why. $30k is a huge chunk of change, at least in my area. hell, there are lots of jobs that only pay $30k in my area (I live in a lcola). So that is something that needs to be discussed and agreed on by both parties.
Would you think it is ok if Tractor just went out each year and spent $30k without his wife's approval? Because that is essentially the same thing. I'm not married but if I were and we had joint finances, I'm assuming it would not be ok for me to blow $30k without my partner's approval.
She hasn't blown anything! She got an OFFER. An offer, which according to the OP, she brought to her husband for discussion. She has not accepted it, she has not quit her current job. So I really do not understand how you are getting she did something behind his back that he did not agree to. Considering she has been hunting for 2 years and this is the only offer she's recieved indicates it's either a really small field or there is too much competition for what is out there which means employers can be picky. I do not blame her for seriously consider the job, it doesn't sound like she has a lot of options available. I suppose we could say she should retrain/go back to school then but if tractor is upset over her taking a job with a decrease in income he's probably not going to want to lose ground waiting for her to start over. The odds of retraining and stepping right into a higher paying job than she has right now are pretty much zero. And again this is apparently just me but if it came down to my spouse facing being stuck in a job he hates indefinetly vs cutting back on discretionary stuff/delaying debt pay off I would tell him to take it. DH's sanity and health is not worth a few extra dollars to me. Not if the household isn't going to suffer because of it. I do not consider not being able to give to charity or expecting my adult children to figure out how to pay for whatever I am not covering for college as "suffering". You must have a lot of money because $30k is not a few extra dollars to me.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 10, 2017 14:16:02 GMT -5
we are not reading the same thread. I'm not sure why. $30k is a huge chunk of change, at least in my area. hell, there are lots of jobs that only pay $30k in my area (I live in a lcola). So that is something that needs to be discussed and agreed on by both parties.
Would you think it is ok if Tractor just went out each year and spent $30k without his wife's approval? Because that is essentially the same thing. I'm not married but if I were and we had joint finances, I'm assuming it would not be ok for me to blow $30k without my partner's approval.
I'm not being nitpicky for the sake of argument. I just went through this--albeit not by choice--so I've done this type of math.
We're really not talking about a straight $30K. There's tractor's raise that offsets it. There's the reduction in taxes that offsets. There's the reduction in days worked, thus the reduction in gas spent to commute. In this case, there's the potential to reduce donating to charity simply by the percentage of which Mrs. Tractor's pay cut is.
Anyway, it's not equivalent to "spending" $30k/year.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 10, 2017 14:16:11 GMT -5
I'm assuming there is a benefit to Mrs. T not working crazy hours... like her being home to do more around the house - making life less stressful for all. I know you would rather just have the extra money and pay someone else to clean, etc. but maybe Tractor doesn't feel that way? If they needed every dollar, then I'd say for sure she needs to stay put in her current job, at least for now. But if they are doing well and just have to cut back on charity... sorry, but I don't think Tractor's desire to give a lot to charity should trump his wife's mental health and physical safety. I imagine most people would feel that way about their spouse. I'm confused because I thought tractor started this thread because he wasn't ok with her taking a $30k paycut....
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