tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 9, 2017 18:57:30 GMT -5
At the risk of revealing too much about myself, here it goes. For the longest time my wife and I have made the same basic amount of money, $70,000 each. We're in a low cost of living area and have always lived a comfortable life. Recently I was given a big promotion at work, equal to an additional 20K/year. I started making plans to pay off all our debts and we would be completely debt free within 9 months, able to pay 100% of our sons college and have extra to spare.
I love my job, low stress, great place to work. My wife hate her job, high stress, lots of hours. She wanted a new job and recently applied for and was offered a new job, at a less financially secure school district. She really wants this job, even though it pays 30K less per year. When it's all said and done we will actually be going backward financially, but still a long way from digging a hole we can't get out of. I'm torn, I get wanting a better job, but 30K per year less?!! I'd put up with a lot of BS for an extra 30K.
She doesn't understand why this bothers me, even though I've tried to explain it. Her minds made up, and I'm going to loose on this one. Tell me something that will make me feel better, because at this point I'm really starting to get concerned about what happens next.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 9, 2017 18:58:57 GMT -5
How would she feel if you took a job paying less as opposed to more?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 9, 2017 19:03:28 GMT -5
She hates her job. HATES. You love your job. Do you really want your wife spending the rest of her life HATING her job? And, you said her mind is already made up. So what else is there to do at this point other than just be happy for her?
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 9, 2017 19:04:18 GMT -5
I took a $25K cut two school years ago. I was laid off as a principal. I went back to teaching. My husband earned about a $5,000/year raise at the same time. There was also a difference in retirement packages. The net hit to our monthly budget was ~$500/month.
My stress level went way down and thus our household tone became much more calm.
This year, I was re-called. At this point, it'd be about a $15/year gross increase in my yearly income. I chose not to go back. My family asked me not to. Our life is better right now with the current workload and schedule. The additional money isn't worth going back to that job right now. I might after my youngest child is launched.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 9, 2017 19:06:39 GMT -5
Have you tried "I agree, life is too short for the stress of a job you don't like...I'm going to find a job paying $40k/year as well"?
I guess I'd have different feelings depending on whether I felt this was directly related to my own new higher-paying job.
What will make you feel better...if you divorce her now you'll be making the same amount of money at the time of the split, so you won't owe her the alimony you might if you divorce her when you're making $90k and she's making $40k.
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Aug 9, 2017 19:08:59 GMT -5
How about ask her to wait a year, and if she feels the same way then pull the trigger?
Will give you one last year to save / reduce debt and "prepare", and she has a light at the end of her tunnel.......
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 9, 2017 19:10:26 GMT -5
How about ask her to wait a year, and if she feels the same way then pull the trigger?
Will give you one last year to save / reduce debt and "prepare", and she has a light at the end of her tunnel....... Or let her spend a year looking for a job she'd enjoy that wouldn't be a massive paycut.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 9, 2017 19:14:55 GMT -5
If I had to spend long hours doing something I HATED, I'd be miserable too - and want to jump ship, even if it meant less money and security.
Wait - I did that a bunch of years ago (was working at a bank that was going down in flames). It was personally wonky for a short while, but in the end we actually came out ahead, I got a better job and advanced my career, and we got back to liking each other.
Why do you want your wife to stay miserable for the sake of money? Money comes and goes - the people you love: not so much YMHO YMMV
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 9, 2017 19:17:58 GMT -5
It should not bother you. You are +20k and she will be down 30k, net -10k. Working a job she hates when she can have one she loves is worth that. Being debt free is a wonderful goal, but not such a big goal when you are living comfortably and making bills.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Aug 9, 2017 19:18:55 GMT -5
I don't hate my job - thank goodness - but if I did, I wouldn't have the option of taking a lower paying job because it's just me supporting me. So my response would be biased. Something along the lines of suck it up....
That being said, I have no idea what it's like to really hate what you do for a living. My job isn't my life - it's my job. So I'm not emotionally invested enough in it to hate it or love it. It's just....it. Maybe I'd change my mind if I had to live it.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 9, 2017 19:22:43 GMT -5
If I had to spend long hours doing something I HATED, I'd be miserable too - and want to jump ship, even if it meant less money and security.
Wait - I did that a bunch of years ago (was working at a bank that was going down in flames). It was personally wonky for a short while, but in the end we actually came out ahead, I got a better job and advanced my career, and we got back to liking each other.
Why do you want your wife to stay miserable for the sake of money? Money comes and goes - - the people you love, not so much YMHO YMMV Some of it kind of depends on the timing and motivation behind it...but it's not hard to imagine someone being pissed when they get a promotion, and instead of getting to enjoy the financial fruits of their labor their partner says "oh, good, I guess that means I can take an even bigger pay cut for something I'll enjoy and this is not a discussion, I'm just doing it".
It also depends on the long-term prospects of the new job...there's a big difference between "I left a 70k deadend job for a 40k job where the prospects of making 100k in a few years are excellent" and "I left a 70k job for a 40k job with no real long term advancement opportunity".
Nobody wants to feel like their hard work is paving the way for someone ELSE to benefit off of it instead of them, without even having a real say in the matter.
I feel like if this were a guy taking a big paycut to be "happier" in his job right after his wife got a promotion which would have put their family in great financial shape...people would be flipping their lids about sucking it up and being a real man and all that.
There's a lot less wrong with the scenario if they've been planning for her to look for another lower-paying job for a while now, making financial plans to make that happen, etc...and it just happens to coincide with a promotion he's getting. That's just good timing really if that's how it happened.
ETA: It also matters (to me) how long she's been looking, and what kinds of opportunities there might be out there for a job she likes that isn't such a big pay cut. Nobody wants to work a job they hate...but reasonable people are not limited to 1 job they'd "like" only.
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quince
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Post by quince on Aug 9, 2017 19:24:33 GMT -5
A LCOLA, a person could support themselves, easily, on 40K (I did). Downgrading to a still reasonable income doesn't seem like a big deal to me to get out of misery.
My husband has had job offers for twice as much as he makes now, and doesn't take them because he loves his job. I don't work because right now it's easier for both of us. My father had a few years where he job hopped a bit with an even greater cut in income than your wife is taking, with my mom's full support, trying to find a job that wouldn't make him miserable. It's HARD to go to work every day when you hate your job.
At most, I would ask for the compromise of stick with it for 9 months until you're debt free, but she's already jumped to applying/getting an offer. I would worry more about the lack of communication/compromise than the 30K paycut.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 9, 2017 19:25:04 GMT -5
Can you wife do something on the side to try and help make up the difference? Tutor private students, pick up summer school classes or hours, something else? Just until the debt is paid?
You said "I'd put up with a lot of BS for an extra 30K." Fair enough. But that is YOU. She is not like you. Maybe money isn't everything to her. Maybe - just maybe - the stress is slowing killing her, or at least significantly degrading her physical and mental health.
As long as you (both of you) can pay your bills without stressing out, you are in a good place. So you just have to pay off the debt slower - that's the way it is. You'll get there.
I'd rather have a happy, relaxed spouse than money. But maybe that's just me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 19:26:37 GMT -5
Suck it up has a way of getting tossed back into the mix once it's uttered.
You are happy. She is not. You tell her she has to keep being unhappy and, right or not, consciously or not, I'm guessing your happy won't last too long..
So, do you put in equal hours for your salaries? Have you in the past?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 19:28:06 GMT -5
But you don't put up with BS now... so how would you really know long term what you'd put up with or not? You haven't been tested. How long has she hated her job?
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Aug 9, 2017 19:29:20 GMT -5
I am biased. I had a job I hated. Location was wonderful (Germany), but I absolutely hated the people I worked with, especially my supervisor and her supervisor. Unfortunately I couldn't "quit" (3 year military assignment). But that opened my eyes big time. If I could have quit, I would have....
My job now since I "retired" from the military I LOVE. In the military, I made about $130 K a year (with different benefit pays). Now I make $55K a year at my civilian job and have a military pension of $49,000......so a $35 K a year "loss" (I pay more taxes now too ) if you want to see it that way.......but I am OH SO HAPPY!! (and low stressed)
And I should get a $10 K a year raise each year for the first 2 years....so when all is said and done about a $15 K a year loss (probably more of a loss when you look at inflation / time value of money......$135 K one years ago will be worth more two years from now (after both promotions))
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dee27
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Post by dee27 on Aug 9, 2017 20:00:39 GMT -5
Happy wife (or husband) equals happy life. If your wife is under continual stress at work, she must be stressed at home, too, which will eventually impact the family dynamic. What do you all value as a family?
Money was never the biggest motivator for us as long as we could pay our bills and save for the future, but a home/work balance was important. When the kids were little, we wanted to be able to enjoy their childhood and be active in their extracurricular activities. We had leaner years when activities were cheap, but spending time together was more important than how much money we spent or saved. Despite having two ordinary, middle class jobs, we could afford a house, retirement, contributions toward college, and some wants. My job was very secure, but DH hit a few bumps along the way. When I had to retire a few years early, we sat down and worked on a manageable household budget and we were fine financially.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 9, 2017 20:02:57 GMT -5
At the risk of revealing too much about myself, here it goes. For the longest time my wife and I have made the same basic amount of money, $70,000 each. We're in a low cost of living area and have always lived a comfortable life. Recently I was given a big promotion at work, equal to an additional 20K/year. I started making plans to pay off all our debts and we would be completely debt free within 9 months, able to pay 100% of our sons college and have extra to spare. I love my job, low stress, great place to work. My wife hate her job, high stress, lots of hours. She wanted a new job and recently applied for and was offered a new job, at a less financially secure school district. She really wants this job, even though it pays 30K less per year. When it's all said and done we will actually be going backward financially, but still a long way from digging a hole we can't get out of. I'm torn, I get wanting a better job, but 30K per year less?!! I'd put up with a lot of BS for an extra 30K. She doesn't understand why this bothers me, even though I've tried to explain it. Her minds made up, and I'm going to loose on this one. Tell me something that will make me feel better, because at this point I'm really starting to get concerned about what happens next. I believe that your promotion and increase in salary is really irrelevant to this converstation. Unless my mth fails my you will still have a combined income of $130k in a LCOL area. Plenty to live a very good life. Yet you seem to think that DWs unhappiness should be trumped by your plans to accelerate debt payoff. It would be one thing if the two of you were barely scraping by on your combined income, but as it is you need to remember that a healthy approach to life is when you "you work to live, not live to work"
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on Aug 9, 2017 20:25:05 GMT -5
I would support my spouse 100% in this situation. And be glad that I got the raise to be able to off set their decision.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Aug 9, 2017 20:46:27 GMT -5
I would be upset if she took the job.
Not because of the pay cut. Because of the fact she was purposefully walking into an unstable financial environment combined with the lower pay. I'd like to hear more about what that means. Does this mean in two years she might not have a job? Look at further cuts?
No one has asked OP how he feels about potentially being the only source of income for his family...
I'll be the mean one and say it. A marriage is a team. You do what's best for the marriage/family. And IMVHO, that trumps individual happiness.
And I say this as somewhat who has been pretty miserable at her job sometimes..to the point of crying daily for a month and not wanting to go in.
But do you know what would make my family more miserable? Me quitting my day job and just teaching.
ETA: I think it's also possible to cultivate happiness no matter what the circumstances are in life...so there's that..too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 20:53:20 GMT -5
But you and the tractors aren't in the same space in life or situation. If the kids were grown and husband got a job making 20k that he loved and you said, great, now I can give up some of the stress and long hours... and he said, whoa nelly, I have plans for that money... you keep the stressful job...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 9, 2017 20:53:25 GMT -5
I don't hate my job - thank goodness - but if I did, I wouldn't have the option of taking a lower paying job because it's just me supporting me. So my response would be biased. Something along the lines of suck it up....
That being said, I have no idea what it's like to really hate what you do for a living. My job isn't my life - it's my job. So I'm not emotionally invested enough in it to hate it or love it. It's just....it. Maybe I'd change my mind if I had to live it. I'm with you. I have to support not only myself but my two kids. I HATE my job. Too much stress and with the latest merger I spend way too much time reporting, which seems like a step back for me even though I got a huge increase in pay But I have to support my kids. I have days where I just know I can't do it anymore, so I focus on increasing my passive cash flow I admit I don't understand how someone can make a unilateral decision with such a negative hit to your family income. Would she be willing to work for $40k if she was supporting herself?
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Aug 9, 2017 20:54:18 GMT -5
Tractor, have you had a job that you hated? The quick answer is yes, but it paid well so I stuck with it. You guys have all been great with your responses, I'm not ignoring you, I'm going to bed. I'll respond more tomorrow. Thank you for what you have said so far.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 9, 2017 21:03:08 GMT -5
I don't think this is as cut and dry as a 30K a year pay cut... what are the pro's of the new job - beyond less stress? Do any of the pro's make up for the 30K pay cut short/long term? as in commute time, amount of time spent at work, use the job as a stepping stone to a much better job? better lower cost benefits? Better retirement plan (long term)? Does it free up time to persue something else (that eventually will generate dollars)?
What are the con's of the new job? Lack of job security? leads to a dead end job? longer commute? more time/money involved in the job? crappy benefits?
I think both the OP and his wife need to look out at the horizon - 3 or 5 years down the road. What makes the most sense to do now so that 3 to 5 years from now they are in a better place. There's no need for his wife to be stuck in a horrible job for the REST of her life...maybe for a short while longer but not forever. they need to figure out the best way to get her out of the horrible job.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 21:05:45 GMT -5
Also are there additional responsibilities and hours associated with your promotion tractor?
Do you share household responsibilities equally at this time?
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Aug 9, 2017 21:17:36 GMT -5
I think being single tends to skew my perspective on these things a bit. I've absolutely hated my job and dreaded going into work at times. I don't love my job now, but I recognize that the good outweighs the bad on most days. When I've hated a job I've either worked my ass off to change things more to my liking, or failing that, worked even harder to find a better situation elsewhere. I don't have a spouses income to fall back on, so I suck it up and get on with life.
I know it's petty, and probably a good reason I'm single, but my knee jerk reaction would be is she willing to decrease her standard of living by $30K in order to take the new job? Or even $10K? No new car, vacations, mani/pedi/lunches out/whatever her indulgences are? If not, then she stays where she's at and works hard to improve her situation, whether that's at her current employer or finding a new job of similar salary.
Sometimes I'm really glad I'm not married. This is one of those times. I would have a huge problem with a situation like this. It would be different if the couple had agreed on this together. But I wouldn't make a decision like this despite a partner's wishes, and I'd expect him not to do it to me either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 21:21:42 GMT -5
I think it's interesting that one partner is not allowed to make a unilateral decision to lower their income, but one partner is allowed to make a decision about the others stress level and happiness.. I do think more details would help shed additional light. Hopefully tractor can answer some of our questions tomorrow.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Aug 9, 2017 21:23:51 GMT -5
I've been lucky to have always enjoyed my career and work environment (which is good, since it's all been at the same place ), but I have had a couple of jobs where I would throw up and/or cry before work a few days a week. And these were basically McJobs with a specified end date, so there was some light at the end of the tunnel. Hating what you do for 40+ hours a week has a way of bleeding over into the other 128, and I'd imagine that's much worse if you're facing another decade plus of it. You've posted about her job before, I think (something in special ed administration?--a very stressful area with a high burnout rate). You guys make $130K a year in a LCOLA. You like your job.* I would congratulate her on the new position and go out to a nice dinner. IMO life is too short to spend a quarter of it in a place you hate, especially if you don't have to, and it doesn't sound like you have to. *I feel like liking your job can add maybe 15-20% to your baseline happiness level, whereas really hating your job can subtract more like 60%. But some people are better at compartmentalizing/pushing through than I am.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 9, 2017 21:27:51 GMT -5
Well, I am married and I earn a high $ income and we are in great shape financially, but even then I would have a problem if my DH unilaterally decided to take a lower paying job.
To me, it's a decision that's to be made jointly. Yeah I understand tractor's wife hates her job. But she does not get to make a financial decision BY HERSELF that impacts the family's income or the adds on stress to other earner. ESPECIALLY if tractor is not ok with it.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 9, 2017 21:49:43 GMT -5
The real problem is your last couple sentences. Her mind is made up. She isnt listening to you. And you feel like you are 'losing' this one. So i think u need a sit down as a couple. You have financial concerns. She has her mental/ emotional health concerns etc. How can she allay your fears regarding the financial? How can you allay her stress, etc. Ultimately you dont want to hate your job and you dont want her to hate hers. What could she do to make this easier on you?
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