NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 15:26:51 GMT -5
One thing that stands out to me:
Tractor has stated that this new opportunity is in an unstable or not as stable school district. People have stated over and over that it took Mrs. Tractor 2 years to be offered this opportunity. So at the end of the school year in this un or not as stable school district, her position gets cut. What then? If it took 2 years to get this opportunity, how long will it take for her to find other employment if that happens?
If that happens (and that's just as possible as all the other situation posed here), we are talking about way more than a $10,000 cut. It's something to consider unless she's dying and I don't get that impression from the OP. There is unstable in that she could lose her job in a year or two and there is unstable in that the school can't always afford the latest and greatest. Special education is federally mandated so there would always have to be at least one teacher in the school. It's certainly something that should be talked about before taking the position, but I am not inclined to dismiss the position out of hand without more information. Technically speaking all my jobs are unstable. I work on grant money which is never 100% assured. However there is a major difference between a grant that ends in a year vs a 5 year grant. Neither job may last but one has a much longer ticking clock. It's the details that are important when I interview.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 10, 2017 15:29:06 GMT -5
Yes, fights in the classroom can be common, she is expected to break them up. She has only been assaulted once, a student threw a book at her. The worse scare was when an boy in restraints smashed his head through the door glass so her could hurl profanities at her.I am going to adjust my answer, though not change my position. I started out with saying that your DW mental health should take precedence over the increased income. I stand by that. But the highlighted part above means that you are plainly wrong here tractor . You should have been front and center in encouraging your DW to take the new job and keep her safe. Fights, thrown objects, head through a glass pane to hurl profanities at someone, are not things I would want in the life of someone I love. Heck, I don't even want that in the life of my sons' father and we are divorced for crimminy's sake! This is tricky. I work only in regular ed. That's what I want to do and what I can emotionally handle.
DS#1 wants to work with kids who have major, major challenges. He wants to help them. His degree is in criminology. His first job after finishing his BS was at a juvenile prison. He wanted to work there; he didn't need to. He made it about a year. He was getting frustrated in general, but when there was an actual riot, he was done.
He now works for the county's mental health department as a case manager for youth in that portion of the system.
This is the work he wants to do; we understand there is danger to it. It doesn't mean he won't reach his limit at some point and want to change work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 15:30:52 GMT -5
It's a public school district. It's not going to go away, and if it downsizes, special ed isn't going to be where the cuts go. She might lose an aide. But probably not. In fact the district might even bus in EI students from out of district to generate income. Not evryone here has their own EI in house. It's not uncommon to bus to a district that does because paying for service is easier than housing your own.
Im sure that's not all districts but it happens. My friend has a kid who will have to eventually be long term residential I think. He's been in just about every program in a 5 County radius between in hospital stints.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 10, 2017 15:41:59 GMT -5
She hasn't blown anything! She got an OFFER. An offer, which according to the OP, she brought to her husband for discussion. She has not accepted it, she has not quit her current job. So I really do not understand how you are getting she did something behind his back that he did not agree to. Considering she has been hunting for 2 years and this is the only offer she's recieved indicates it's either a really small field or there is too much competition for what is out there which means employers can be picky. I do not blame her for seriously consider the job, it doesn't sound like she has a lot of options available. I suppose we could say she should retrain/go back to school then but if tractor is upset over her taking a job with a decrease in income he's probably not going to want to lose ground waiting for her to start over. The odds of retraining and stepping right into a higher paying job than she has right now are pretty much zero. And again this is apparently just me but if it came down to my spouse facing being stuck in a job he hates indefinetly vs cutting back on discretionary stuff/delaying debt pay off I would tell him to take it. DH's sanity and health is not worth a few extra dollars to me. Not if the household isn't going to suffer because of it. I do not consider not being able to give to charity or expecting my adult children to figure out how to pay for whatever I am not covering for college as "suffering". You must have a lot of money because $30k is not a few extra dollars to me. Umm....when her husband quit his job bc he hated it - she wasn't too concern about his health or sanity and people on another thread were basically telling her that he is an irresponsible asshole. So, evidently unilateral decision for "mental health and sanity" are OK for some and not for others
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 15:43:54 GMT -5
I wanted to say even if Mrs T has only had one book thrown at her there is still a lot of heartrending/scary shit that happens in residential programs. These kids aren't here because they just need a time out from their parents. They are there because either their home life is beyond messed up or they have mental issues that their parents cannot handle themselves. It's a dangerous job whether people want to admit it or not. It's also a very exhausting job psychologically. I had a professor who was a counselor to this group of children. She said you have to learn to compartmentalize FAST otherwise you will shrivel up from all the horror stories you will be privvy to. Even with being able to do that A LOT of people burn out because there is only so much misery a human brain is capable of absorbing. She was taking a break by teaching at IWCC for awhile as ooposed to practicing. The majority of policemen do not get shot while on duty but I don't think any of us would say that being a policeman is not dangerous work simply because that guy over there hasn't ever been shot. 23 years is a long time for Mrs T to work with the population she works with. Instead of chewing her out for having had enough I think she deserves major props for lasting that long. I couldn't even get as far as finishing the interview for a job that deals with that population. Doing it this long though, it only signifies to me that she understands the situation she's in, and has had a long time to make coordinated plans with tractor on an exit strategy. That's part of what I don't understand here...2 years looking, did they discuss a plan? It's absolutely a hard job, I don't have any feelings of "she needs to stick it out". I just don't understand how you look for a job for 2 years and seemingly have no real plan discussed that you're planning on taking a job for that significant of a pay cut whether your partner likes it or not. What kind of exit plan could she have where she does not take a large pay cut? She is in a highly specialized field, and is well compensated for it (and probably not as much as she should be). Any exit strategy she would have would require retraining. When? She is working 16 hours/day per Tractor (who has reason to minimize this but didn't). If she walked into an admin job, which she is not qualified for, she would be taking a huge pay cut. If stopped work and retrained, getting back into the workforce in a new field at 50 is impossible (want to ask me how I know this?), she'd be without a salary for a couple years, and no job.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 15:50:10 GMT -5
I wanted to say even if Mrs T has only had one book thrown at her there is still a lot of heartrending/scary shit that happens in residential programs. These kids aren't here because they just need a time out from their parents. They are there because either their home life is beyond messed up or they have mental issues that their parents cannot handle themselves. It's a dangerous job whether people want to admit it or not. It's also a very exhausting job psychologically. I had a professor who was a counselor to this group of children. She said you have to learn to compartmentalize FAST otherwise you will shrivel up from all the horror stories you will be privvy to. Even with being able to do that A LOT of people burn out because there is only so much misery a human brain is capable of absorbing. She was taking a break by teaching at IWCC for awhile as ooposed to practicing. The majority of policemen do not get shot while on duty but I don't think any of us would say that being a policeman is not dangerous work simply because that guy over there hasn't ever been shot. 23 years is a long time for Mrs T to work with the population she works with. Instead of chewing her out for having had enough I think she deserves major props for lasting that long. I couldn't even get as far as finishing the interview for a job that deals with that population. Doing it this long though, it only signifies to me that she understands the situation she's in, and has had a long time to make coordinated plans with tractor on an exit strategy. That's part of what I don't understand here...2 years looking, did they discuss a plan? It's absolutely a hard job, I don't have any feelings of "she needs to stick it out". I just don't understand how you look for a job for 2 years and seemingly have no real plan discussed that you're planning on taking a job for that significant of a pay cut whether your partner likes it or not. I may have missed a post somewhere but I don't think she said she's taking the job whether tractor likes it or not. What I read said that she wants to take it, which is understandable. Doesn't mean that she will and damn the consequences. I got a call for a job that I wanted but it turned out that the shift started at 6:00 am which is before daycare opens just because I went ahead with the phone interview doesn't mean that I was going to switch jobs without discussing it with DH. I did the screening for the networking opportunity and then brought the position home to DH for discussion. It wasn't feasible because he had to be at work at 4 am. So I turned down the in person interview there was no point in it going any further. She got an offer, she's considering it. She should not be raked over the coals for considering it. If tractor posted that she had quit her job and had a start date for the new one without talking to him I'd agree with a lot of poster's stance on the matter. That's not what appears to have happened. DH and I must be the only people on the planet that have gotten job offers/interviews that we ended up turning down. Getting an offer and accepting the offer are two totally different things. The job is not a done deal till all the paperwork is signed. So I am not sure where all this hostility towards Mrs T is coming from when she hasn't actually done or changed anything yet.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 15:52:16 GMT -5
You must have a lot of money because $30k is not a few extra dollars to me. Umm....when her husband quit his job bc he hated it - she wasn't too concern about his health or sanity and people on another thread were basically telling her that he is an irresponsible asshole. So, evidently unilateral decision for "mental health and sanity" are OK for some and not for others We couldn't pay the bills because I had just spent half a year unemployed, then the other half under employed. Without DH's income we could not afford to pay our bills. You knnow the ones that matter like electricity and food. We had agreed that he could switch jobs ASAP but he needed to hang on until he found another position. He took it upon himself while at work to quit and then wait till I got home to tell me. But hey if you want to make that equal to tractor's wife coming home to discuss a job offer and if she took it all that would need to be done is cut back on charitable giving to make up most of the difference then go right ahead.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 10, 2017 16:00:53 GMT -5
Umm....when her husband quit his job bc he hated it - she wasn't too concern about his health or sanity and people on another thread were basically telling her that he is an irresponsible asshole. So, evidently unilateral decision for "mental health and sanity" are OK for some and not for others We couldn't pay the bills because I had just spent half a year unemployed, then the other half under employed. Without DH's income we could not afford to pay our bills. You knnow the ones that matter like electricity and food. We had agreed that he could switch jobs ASAP but he needed to hang on until he found another position. He took it upon himself while at work to quit and then wait till I got home to tell me. But hey if you want to make that equal to tractor's wife coming home to discuss a job offer and if she took it all that would need to be done is cut back on charitable giving to make up most of the difference then go right ahead. You missing the point. THEY didn't agree on anything, she made the decision. When your husband made decision all by himself - you were pissed and everyone was telling you that you were right. Everyone seems to think that it's just the money issue, it's not. It's a respect issue. Unilateral decisions that are of a large caliber should not be made in a marriage, unless there is a prior agreement.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 16:03:55 GMT -5
We couldn't pay the bills because I had just spent half a year unemployed, then the other half under employed. Without DH's income we could not afford to pay our bills. You knnow the ones that matter like electricity and food. We had agreed that he could switch jobs ASAP but he needed to hang on until he found another position. He took it upon himself while at work to quit and then wait till I got home to tell me. But hey if you want to make that equal to tractor's wife coming home to discuss a job offer and if she took it all that would need to be done is cut back on charitable giving to make up most of the difference then go right ahead. You missing the point. THEY didn't agree on anything, she made the decision. When your husband made decision all by himself - you were pissed and everyone was telling you that you were right. Everyone seems to think that it's just the money issue, it's not. It's a respect issue. Unilateral decisions that are of a large caliber should not be made in a marriage, unless there is a prior agreement. Can someone PLEASE show me the post where she accepted the job and quit her current position? All I have read is that she interviewed and got a job offer. What exactly is unilateral about that? Tractor knows she's been job hunting for two years. Again nothing is finalized till she starts. DH has had positions go *poof* after they were offered. I had accepted and had the paperwork for a different job when I got the call for Creighton. I sat on the paper work for two weeks gambling that Creighton would call. If she hasn't quit and hasn't started a new position yet then I do not see how anything has been "unilaterally" decided. DH went into work at 4 am, quit at noon and I found out at 4:30 pm. Quite a bit different.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 10, 2017 16:08:38 GMT -5
The reason why everyone is making it a money issue is because the OP made it a money issue. It is apparent from his original post that it is the money that matters to him. I am not saying that it shouldn't matter but she hasn't up and quit her job with no other job to go to...not the same as drama's situation at all IMO.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 16:13:01 GMT -5
The reason why everyone is making it a money issue is because the OP made it a money issue. It is apparent from his original post that it is the money that matters to him. I am not saying that it shouldn't matter but she hasn't up and quit her job with no other job to go to...not the same as drama's situation at all IMO. The OP made it a money issue and he made this comment too..... "if he didn't give as much as he did, he'd feel like even more of a shell of a man". So it sounds like he's equating the ability to give a buttload of money with self worth, and him not being able to financially able to give is going to affect what he thinks of himself. Only problem is he is giving all this money so he can feel better about himself, so his wife can be even more stressed and burnt out.....at her expense.
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Aug 10, 2017 16:13:25 GMT -5
It always amazes me on the jumping to conclusions and lack of facts in peeps post on this board
I missed the part where Tractor said it was a unilateral decision and that it was in fact already decided only by the wife with no input from tractor.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 10, 2017 16:14:08 GMT -5
It always amazes me on the jumping to conclusions and lack of facts in peeps post on this board
I missed the part where Tractor said it was a unilateral decision and that it was in fact already decided only by the wife with no input from tractor.
Now I know I am in the twilight zone, I agreed with Rob.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 10, 2017 16:18:11 GMT -5
I also disagree that tractor's wife isn't qualified to do anything but teach. I would hire a teacher in a minute to do admin work. They are used to dealing with all kinds of people - administrators, parents, and obviously children (and some adults can certainly act like children). They do a large amount of paperwork and generally have good writing skills. I would hire a teacher as an admin person with no hesitation as long as they fully explained their reason for switching jobs. I am NOT saying this is what she SHOULD do but I wouldn't count out her being able to get a decent office job with standard hours. If she is going to take a 30K pay cut anyway and is burned out, then why not look at other options.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 16:24:20 GMT -5
I also disagree that tractor's wife isn't qualified to do anything but teach. I would hire a teacher in a minute to do admin work. They are used to dealing with all kinds of people - administrators, parents, and obviously children (and some adults can certainly act like children). They do a large amount of paperwork and generally have good writing skills. I would hire a teacher as an admin person with no hesitation as long as they fully explained their reason for switching jobs. I am not saying this is what she SHOULD do but I wouldn't count out her being able to get a decent office job with standard hours. If she is going to take a 30K pay cut anyway and is burned out, then why not look at other options. The difference is that she very likely wants to stay within her school system in order to maintain her pension. Admins within the school system (according to others in the know) need certifications.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 10, 2017 16:37:49 GMT -5
I'm torn, I get wanting a better job, but 30K per year less?!! I'd put up with a lot of BS for an extra 30K. She doesn't understand why this bothers me, even though I've tried to explain it. Her minds made up, and I'm going to loose on this one. Here is the part that shows it is a decision she made with no regards for what he thinks or wants. READ PEOPLE READ
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 10, 2017 16:38:46 GMT -5
It always amazes me on the jumping to conclusions and lack of facts in peeps post on this board
I missed the part where Tractor said it was a unilateral decision and that it was in fact already decided only by the wife with no input from tractor.
Now I know I am in the twilight zone, I agreed with Rob. Read my post above, it was in the OP first post.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 10, 2017 16:42:51 GMT -5
It always amazes me on the jumping to conclusions and lack of facts in peeps post on this board
I missed the part where Tractor said it was a unilateral decision and that it was in fact already decided only by the wife with no input from tractor.
I don't know maybe: -> she doesn't get why it bothers me -> her mind is made up -> I am going to lose on this one AKA no matter what he said she has decided she is going to take the job and a 30k pay cut.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 10, 2017 16:43:23 GMT -5
Doing it this long though, it only signifies to me that she understands the situation she's in, and has had a long time to make coordinated plans with tractor on an exit strategy. That's part of what I don't understand here...2 years looking, did they discuss a plan? It's absolutely a hard job, I don't have any feelings of "she needs to stick it out". I just don't understand how you look for a job for 2 years and seemingly have no real plan discussed that you're planning on taking a job for that significant of a pay cut whether your partner likes it or not. I may have missed a post somewhere but I don't think she said she's taking the job whether tractor likes it or not. What I read said that she wants to take it, which is understandable. Doesn't mean that she will and damn the consequences. I got a call for a job that I wanted but it turned out that the shift started at 6:00 am which is before daycare opens just because I went ahead with the phone interview doesn't mean that I was going to switch jobs without discussing it with DH. I did the screening for the networking opportunity and then brought the position home to DH for discussion. It wasn't feasible because he had to be at work at 4 am. So I turned down the in person interview there was no point in it going any further. She got an offer, she's considering it. She should not be raked over the coals for considering it. If tractor posted that she had quit her job and had a start date for the new one without talking to him I'd agree with a lot of poster's stance on the matter. That's not what appears to have happened. DH and I must be the only people on the planet that have gotten job offers/interviews that we ended up turning down. Getting an offer and accepting the offer are two totally different things. The job is not a done deal till all the paperwork is signed. So I am not sure where all this hostility towards Mrs T is coming from when she hasn't actually done or changed anything yet. I took "her mind is made up" to mean she's decided she's doing it regardless.
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Aug 10, 2017 16:45:30 GMT -5
I'm torn, I get wanting a better job, but 30K per year less?!! I'd put up with a lot of BS for an extra 30K. She doesn't understand why this bothers me, even though I've tried to explain it. Her minds made up, and I'm going to loose on this one. Here is the part that shows it is a decision she made with no regards for what he thinks or wants. READ PEOPLE READ
Thanks for pointing that out
Although I don't think you can ASSUME that she made the decision with no regard to what he thinks or wants. Apparently she has listened to him (he says he's tried to explain it to her). It just looks like she has reached a decision he doesn't like to me. But apparently she has NOT executed this decision yet.
I am glad I am not married to Tractor, or Miss T, or some others on this board.......a net $10 K loss is enough to get up in arms about someone leaving a job they HATE?
BTW- Tractor can you update what you have done to alleviate the situation? How do the house chores work in your household? Do you encourage her to have "me" time (girls night out, massage, etc.)? Do you / can you help her proof read lesson plans and stuff? Anything else?
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 10, 2017 16:48:11 GMT -5
Here is the part that shows it is a decision she made with no regards for what he thinks or wants. READ PEOPLE READ
Thanks for pointing that out
Although I don't think you can ASSUME that she made the decision with no regard to what he thinks or wants. Apparently she has listened to him (he says he's tried to explain it to her). It just looks like she has reached a decision he doesn't like to me.
I am glad I am not married to Tractor, or Miss T, or some others on this board.......a net $10 K loss that won't affect their ability to pay bills and live comfortably is enough to get up in arms about someone leaving a job they HATE?
BTW- Tractor can you update what you have done to alleviate the situation? How do the house chores work in your household? Do you encourage her to have "me" time (girls night out, massage, etc.)? Do you / can you help her proof read lesson plans and stuff? Anything else?
adding the bolded because it is very important to this dialogue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 16:49:59 GMT -5
I take he's going to lose to mean he's going to be the one to say, ok, because it means more to her than him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 16:55:40 GMT -5
So currently you work 50 hours and she works 60-70 to bring in the same cash? She wants to cut her her hours, but you feel she needs to keep working all the extra time because she needs to make as much as she can?
Does that conceptulaization change anything? Because she's making the same if not more at the new job for time worked... she just wants to cut her hours (and be in a less stressful environment).
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 10, 2017 16:57:10 GMT -5
You missing the point. THEY didn't agree on anything, she made the decision. When your husband made decision all by himself - you were pissed and everyone was telling you that you were right. Everyone seems to think that it's just the money issue, it's not. It's a respect issue. Unilateral decisions that are of a large caliber should not be made in a marriage, unless there is a prior agreement. Can someone PLEASE show me the post where she accepted the job and quit her current position? All I have read is that she interviewed and got a job offer. What exactly is unilateral about that? Tractor knows she's been job hunting for two years. Again nothing is finalized till she starts. DH has had positions go *poof* after they were offered. I had accepted and had the paperwork for a different job when I got the call for Creighton. I sat on the paper work for two weeks gambling that Creighton would call. If she hasn't quit and hasn't started a new position yet then I do not see how anything has been "unilaterally" decided. DH went into work at 4 am, quit at noon and I found out at 4:30 pm. Quite a bit different. Re-read OP - this is what OP said Do you still consider that not unilateral decision?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 16:58:56 GMT -5
I also disagree that tractor's wife isn't qualified to do anything but teach. I would hire a teacher in a minute to do admin work. They are used to dealing with all kinds of people - administrators, parents, and obviously children (and some adults can certainly act like children). They do a large amount of paperwork and generally have good writing skills. I would hire a teacher as an admin person with no hesitation as long as they fully explained their reason for switching jobs. I am NOT saying this is what she SHOULD do but I wouldn't count out her being able to get a decent office job with standard hours. If she is going to take a 30K pay cut anyway and is burned out, then why not look at other options. The 30k pay cut is because she's going from a 5 day a week 52 week a year job, to a 188 (or so) day contract. Admin is not going to be the same because even if it pays 'the same' it's going to be 5 days 52 weeks... so not really pay the same...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 16:59:48 GMT -5
So any time you have a discussion and you give in the decision is unilateral?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 10, 2017 17:01:11 GMT -5
The reason why everyone is making it a money issue is because the OP made it a money issue. It is apparent from his original post that it is the money that matters to him. I am not saying that it shouldn't matter but she hasn't up and quit her job with no other job to go to...not the same as drama's situation at all IMO. I understand that it's money that matters to OP. My point is - whether it's money, time, chores, cars, kids, vacations, pets - if one of the spouses makes a unilateral decision - it all comes down to respect. If one of the spouses does something major (gets a puppy, quits a job, buys a car) without discussion and (if needed) compromise - that's disrespectful to the partner and marriage. And again, based on OP "her mind is made up" which to me means "she, and she alone, made the decision". I consider that lack of respect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 17:01:41 GMT -5
Then her losing the argument would have been him unilaterally deciding.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 10, 2017 17:03:33 GMT -5
The reason why everyone is making it a money issue is because the OP made it a money issue. It is apparent from his original post that it is the money that matters to him. I am not saying that it shouldn't matter but she hasn't up and quit her job with no other job to go to...not the same as drama's situation at all IMO. I understand that it's money that matters to OP. My point is - whether it's money, time, chores, cars, kids, vacations, pets - if one of the spouses makes a unilateral decision - it all comes down to respect. If one of the spouses does something major (gets a puppy, quits a job, buys a car) without discussion and (if needed) compromise - that's disrespectful to the partner and marriage. And again, based on OP "her mind is made up" which to me means "she, and she alone, made the decision". I consider that lack of respect. Or is means she just can't do it anymore. She has heard his argument and does not agree with him. I don't see how that is lack of respect.
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Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 19:59:06 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 17:07:28 GMT -5
Or why that would be a lack of respect but him telling her she had to keep doing it regardless would be respectful, and somehow not unilateral?
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