Jr. Gets his own thread

[Deleted]

Discuss. 

[Deleted]

www.npr.org/2017/07/11/536648394/emails-show-trump-jr-knew-russia-was-working-to-support-trump-campaign


theweek.com/articles/711236/43-stunned-reactions-donald-trump-jrs-damning-emails

[Phoenix84]

I assume you're talking about Trump junior meeting with a Russian lawyer who claimed to have dirt on Clinton?

There's not much to discuss. A member of a political campaign meeting with someone claiming to have dirt on your political rival? That's the most shocking revelation since vanilla Dr. Pepper.

[Deleted]

So you haven't read the emails either? 

[ken a.k.a OMK]

I've read some of them and his own words should be enough to convict him of a felony. Take Kushner and Manafort along.

[thyme4change]

So, my question (this is a serious question of law) The USA has obviously supported certain candidates in other countries. We have gone to war and killed people to get some people out of office, etc. At what point does Russia having a favorite become illegal? Is it when they steal documents through hacking?

Does anyone know our recent history with any foreign elections? I'm quite uninformed in this whole subject matter, and it appears I should get educated quickly.

[Deleted]

Them having a favorite... not illegal. 

Their favorite responding to an offer from them to provide damaging information... illegal. 

[hurley1980]

Okay, I keep hearing Trump supporters say this is no big deal.

How is an attempt to collude with a hostile foreign government, to get dirt on your opponent, to influence the presidential election not a big deal?

I really want to know, because that sounds a bit treasonous to me...

And I am genuinely asking. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of our system can explain to me what I am missing.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

www.cnbc.com/2017/07/11/donald-trump-jr-may-well-have-committed-a-federal-crime-experts-say.html

Trump Jr.'s decision to meet with the Russian attorney to see what information she might have may well have violated campaign finance law. You don't have to actually get useful help from foreigners, according to this law. The mere fact that Trump Jr. asked for information from a Russian national about Clinton might have constituted a federal crime.



"If what Donald Trump Jr. said was true ... then they should have never had the meeting in the first place," Nick Akerman, an assistant special prosecutor during the Watergate investigation who now specializes in data crime, says.insert quote here

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 11, 2017 12:31:31 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Okay, I keep hearing Trump supporters say this is no big deal.

How is an attempt to collude with a hostile foreign government, to get dirt on your opponent, to influence the presidential election not a big deal?

I really want to know, because that sounds a bit treasonous to me...

And I am genuinely asking. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of our system can explain to me what I am missing.

But Hillary!  Emails!  Bengazhi!  Clinton Foundation!

I don't know if Trump Jr was deliberately doing something illegal or just being incredibly stupid/naive. I don't know enough to say that he should be punished or not.

Either way watching a guy on CNN try to turn in into Trump Jr's actions being all Hillary's fault was pretty amazing.  Who knew that Hillary was a dark lord of the Sith?   Trump Jr must have a weak mind.

[emma1420]

Don, Jr., is evidence that stupidity and arrogance is one of the most disastrous combinations out there.

He clearly doesn't see a problem with this situation at all.  I think it's why he released his emails, because to him this is no big deal.  And that is because he's a moron who doesn't know any better.  

And I completely believe that the arrogance, stupidity, and entitlement that the adult Trump's all now exhibit will be their downfall.  During the campaign they were only stupid and arrogant, but now they are entitled.  The one thing that voters have proven over and over again is that don't like anyone who comes across as entitled.

I firmly believe that at least one of the Trump kid's will end up in jail at some point.  I don't think you can screw the system endlessly and get away with it at least not for generations.   Because eventually the system will screw you back.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2017 12:48:03 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jul 11, 2017 12:31:31 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Okay, I keep hearing Trump supporters say this is no big deal.

How is an attempt to collude with a hostile foreign government, to get dirt on your opponent, to influence the presidential election not a big deal?

I really want to know, because that sounds a bit treasonous to me...

And I am genuinely asking. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of our system can explain to me what I am missing.

But Hillary!  Emails!  Bengazhi!  Clinton Foundation!

I don't know if Trump Jr was deliberately doing something illegal or just being incredibly stupid/naive. I don't know enough to say that he should be punished or not.

Either way watching a guy on CNN try to turn in into Trump Jr's actions being all Hillary's fault was pretty amazing.  Who knew that Hillary was a dark lord of the Sith?   Trump Jr must have a weak mind.

I think he was deliberately doing something illegal, and was so stupid naive that he didn't even get anything out of it... the worst possible combination, for him.

[thyme4change]

Jul 11, 2017 12:48:07 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

Don, Jr., is evidence that stupidity and arrogance is one of the most disastrous combinations out there.

He clearly doesn't see a problem with this situation at all.  I think it's why he released his emails, because to him this is no big deal.  And that is because he's a moron who doesn't know any better.  

And I completely believe that the arrogance, stupidity, and entitlement that the adult Trump's all now exhibit will be their downfall.  During the campaign they were only stupid and arrogant, but now they are entitled.  The one thing that voters have proven over and over again is that don't like anyone who comes across as entitled.

I firmly believe that at least one of the Trump kid's will end up in jail at some point.  I don't think you can screw the system endlessly and get away with it at least not for generations.   Because eventually the system will screw you back.

I try to step into the minds of Trump supports. They are filled with questions of deep state and fake news. Trump continually acting as a victim. Will they see this as entitlement, or just a witch hunt?

Try not to overestimate the average voter.

[billisonboard]

Jul 11, 2017 12:10:16 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

So, my question (this is a serious question of law) The USA has obviously supported certain candidates in other countries. We have gone to war and killed people to get some people out of office, etc. At what point does Russia having a favorite become illegal? Is it when they steal documents through hacking?

Does anyone know our recent history with any foreign elections? I'm quite uninformed in this whole subject matter, and it appears I should get educated quickly.

There is certainly no way we can deal with this without a level of hypocrisy. But  I don't think that we can leave it at a "Well we do it so we shouldn't do anything about it being done to us".  We need to react as I believe other countries have done based on our actions. It might be difficult to accurately assess what other countries have done to their citizens who have worked with us to influence their elections/leaders. I don't think that Trump, Jr. is likely to have a sudden heart attack nor immigrate to another country. That isn't our country's style. But it isn't unknown in other countries as the way to deal with things that their Powers that Be don't approve taking place.

[Deleted]

www.weeklystandard.com/trump-to-give-major-hillary-speech-monday/article/2002733#.WWUoajWF9Yw.facebook

[mmhmm]

An additional problem I've seen discussed is several of the people involved in Trump's campaign lied (by omission) on their SF-86 security clearance forms which is a federal offense. Reportedly, contacts with Russian government operatives were required to be reported and weren't reported. Don't know how that plays into this but I imagine it does in some way.

[billisonboard]

Jul 11, 2017 14:36:31 GMT -5 oped said:

www.weeklystandard.com/trump-to-give-major-hillary-speech-monday/article/2002733#.WWUoajWF9Yw.facebook

missed the date on that story

[Deleted]

Doesn't it seem like he's thinking some information is about to come his way? That was 2 days before the meeting...

[Tennesseer]

We need to stop using the terms collude, colluding, and collusion.  Those are non-legal terms.  The legal term for working with a foreign adversary is to conspire, conspiring, and conspiration.  Conspiring with a foreign adversary could lead to a prison sentence.   

[Deleted]

It's probably more federal campaign statute, solicitation? 

[emma1420]

Jul 11, 2017 13:34:03 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jul 11, 2017 12:48:07 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

Don, Jr., is evidence that stupidity and arrogance is one of the most disastrous combinations out there.

He clearly doesn't see a problem with this situation at all.  I think it's why he released his emails, because to him this is no big deal.  And that is because he's a moron who doesn't know any better.  

And I completely believe that the arrogance, stupidity, and entitlement that the adult Trump's all now exhibit will be their downfall.  During the campaign they were only stupid and arrogant, but now they are entitled.  The one thing that voters have proven over and over again is that don't like anyone who comes across as entitled.

I firmly believe that at least one of the Trump kid's will end up in jail at some point.  I don't think you can screw the system endlessly and get away with it at least not for generations.   Because eventually the system will screw you back.

I try to step into the minds of Trump supports. They are filled with questions of deep state and fake news. Trump continually acting as a victim. Will they see this as entitlement, or just a witch hunt?

Try not to overestimate the average voter.

Trump won because of swing voters who saw him as the lesser of two evils.  I have no illusions that he's going lose his base.  His base only makes up about 20-25% of the electorate.  I don't really care about what they think, anymore than I think they care about what I think as a liberal.

The people who I care about?  Are the people in the middle.  The people who are less engaged with politics and who don't rabidly spend their time watching cable news.  And I think those are the people Trump should be worried about.  

 

[thyme4change]

Who knows. Maybe the Democrats can find someone even more unlikeable than Hillary to run against him in 2020.

[giramomma]

I'll swing over here now.

So, I talked to DH about this..and he said the DOJ need to bring up charges against Trump Jr, should there be something that they can prosecute.

How many of us think the Sessions is legit going to press charges against the Trump clan?

There will have to be outside groups that file lawsuits...But, I'm not sure that pathway will result in jail time.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Jul 11, 2017 14:47:51 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

An additional problem I've seen discussed is several of the people involved in Trump's campaign lied (by omission) on their SF-86 security clearance forms which is a federal offense. Reportedly, contacts with Russian government operatives were required to be reported and weren't reported. Don't know how that plays into this but I imagine it does in some way.

Absolutely correct and Congress is asking for Kushner's clearance to be revoked. He could also face charges and never get a clearance again. We took our SF-86 forms seriously and were careful to protect our clearances once we had them. I care pooled with 4 guys to the Navy lab and we all had secret clearances but never talked work.

Jr's crime isn't collusion, it's violating election finance laws. Also a federal offence. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sessions isn't stupid enough to bite the hand that feeds him.

[Deleted]

Sessions cannot handle anything related to the campaign and Russia...

This is Mueller territory.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 11, 2017 15:43:13 GMT -5 oped said:

Sessions cannot handle anything related to the campaign and Russia...

This is Mueller territory.

I don't think Mueller will handle it either.   Look what happened to the person who used to hold the post.  It's in everyone's best career interest to ignore it and/or somehow make it all Clinton's fault. 

I agree with everyone who said Trump & CO are like Teflon.   It's already staggering the amount of mental gymnastics needed to justify their behavior while screaming for Clinton's blood.  I really do believe Trump could walk into Times Square, shoot someone and people would either cheer or claim it was a Democrat wearing a Trump mask that did it.

[Deleted]

Ok. We'll just have to disagree and wait and see

The last person to be special prosecutor? 

Have you seen who Mueller has hired?  He doesn't need career prospects. He and the people on his team are the tephlon if you ask me, but we'll see  

I agree I'm a little too giddy, this is still going to take awhile, but honestly, I wasn't expecting anything as 'good' as this...

[billisonboard]

Jul 11, 2017 15:46:59 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

... I don't think Mueller will handle it either.   Look what happened to the person who used to hold the post.  It's in everyone's best career interest ...

My hope is that at 72 years old, career is no longer a governing concern.

[thyme4change]

Jul 11, 2017 15:57:34 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 11, 2017 15:46:59 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

... I don't think Mueller will handle it either.   Look what happened to the person who used to hold the post.  It's in everyone's best career interest ...

My hope is that at 72 years old, career is no longer a governing concern.

I agree. If I was pulled into that situation, I wouldn't give a single f**k about anything but doing the "right" thing - whatever that is.