Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 14, 2017 13:11:59 GMT -5
Stop the presses! /sarc But at least maybe the media will tone down the rhetoric. We need more information.
I'm sure there'll be lawyers aplenty trying to pin the tail on the donkey. My comment was more an exasperated cry of "Who cares?" If the DNC reached out to the Ukraine, or the Ukraine reached out to the DNC, looking for dirt on Pres. Trump or Mr. Manafort or Mickey Mouse... no sane person can possibly consider the procurement of information about shady foreign business transactions by the presiding foreign governments to be ethically or morally wrong. I furthermore have a hard time believing that something as innocuous as soliciting the truth about misconduct abroad is punishable by law in the US. Give the Ukrainians a Pulitzer along with Russia if they're involved. Thank them for letting the electorate know what kind of garbage US candidates dumped in Asia, because the US media and intelligence agencies certainly aren't going to do it. The media's up in arms about this because they've been cut out of the loop.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 14, 2017 13:34:07 GMT -5
A DNC consultant who said she worked independently (although who knows if that is true). The DNC is not the same as the Clinton campaign. And i do think the situations are pretty different, given that what little information was obtained via the consultant was not obtained illegally. And to be honest, if the Don, Jr., thing was isolated and there wasn't other concerns, probably wouldn't be a huge deal. It's the fact that it's yet another meeting with the Russians that got omitted. In the end though, Don Jr., I think is a moron but he's not the one that is going to have legal problems. It's Kushner. He's resubmitted his security forms multiple times, despite the fact that it says in black and white that laying or failure to include information is punishable by jail time. If it was anyone else their security clearance would have been pulled and he'd be hiring lawyers to defend against the legal charges coming his way.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 14, 2017 13:46:55 GMT -5
We need more information.
I'm sure there'll be lawyers aplenty trying to pin the tail on the donkey. My comment was more an exasperated cry of "Who cares?" If the DNC reached out to the Ukraine, or the Ukraine reached out to the DNC, looking for dirt on Pres. Trump or Mr. Manafort or Mickey Mouse... no sane person can possibly consider the procurement of information about shady foreign business transactions by the presiding foreign governments to be ethically or morally wrong. I furthermore have a hard time believing that something as innocuous as soliciting the truth about misconduct abroad is punishable by law in the US. Give the Ukrainians a Pulitzer along with Russia if they're involved. Thank them for letting the electorate know what kind of garbage US candidates dumped in Asia, because the US media and intelligence agencies certainly aren't going to do it. The media's up in arms about this because they've been cut out of the loop. I care. The way our laws are written it may make a difference who reaches out to whom. And if Ukraine had hacked Trump's emails and Clinton's campaign or people from the DNC took the meeting without alerting the FBI, I'd think they would need some jail time and prosecution as well.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2017 13:56:44 GMT -5
We know that a Republican candidate and the DNC purchased information from Russian government and military employees through Steele/Fusion. It's a hot mess and it should all be investigated. The focus seems to be on removing Trump even though the Russians won't stop when he's gone. If something actionable against him comes out of this then I don't care. The focus on just him though makes it look partisan and purely political. I agree that the appearance is that it is focused on Trump. We need to find out what happened and figure out if there is something we can do to prevent it in the future.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 14, 2017 13:58:25 GMT -5
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jul 14, 2017 14:05:41 GMT -5
Fake media. All they do is quote and report facts. I think I'll start reading breitbart and the real news agencies.
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 14, 2017 14:07:26 GMT -5
I'm sure there'll be lawyers aplenty trying to pin the tail on the donkey. My comment was more an exasperated cry of "Who cares?" If the DNC reached out to the Ukraine, or the Ukraine reached out to the DNC, looking for dirt on Pres. Trump or Mr. Manafort or Mickey Mouse... no sane person can possibly consider the procurement of information about shady foreign business transactions by the presiding foreign governments to be ethically or morally wrong. I furthermore have a hard time believing that something as innocuous as soliciting the truth about misconduct abroad is punishable by law in the US. Give the Ukrainians a Pulitzer along with Russia if they're involved. Thank them for letting the electorate know what kind of garbage US candidates dumped in Asia, because the US media and intelligence agencies certainly aren't going to do it. The media's up in arms about this because they've been cut out of the loop. I care. The way our laws are written it may make a difference who reaches out to whom. And if Ukraine had hacked Trump's emails and Clinton's campaign or people from the DNC took the meeting without alerting the FBI, I'd think they would need some jail time and prosecution as well. Who said anything about e-mails? The e-mails were leaked by Wikileaks. If the Russian government is responsible, they wouldn't need to go through a lawyer, through Trump Jr., through Pres. Trump's campaign, to get to Wikileaks. They would just the stuff on Wikileaks. Trying to link this to the DNC hacks is a media pipe dream.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 14, 2017 14:32:10 GMT -5
Fake media. All they do is quote and report facts. I think I'll start reading breitbart and the real news agencies. You should. Don't miss the Breitbart article on the pro-Trump march on Parliament Hill that never happened.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jul 14, 2017 15:12:00 GMT -5
Another not previously reported person at Jr's meeting. A former Russian counter-intelligence officer came with the lawyer. The Trump royal family will go down.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2017 15:49:26 GMT -5
I think there's still far more not known than known at this point. There is an FBI investigation ongoing. The press is trumpeting its take, Trump & Company are trumpeting their take, know-it-alls on Twitter are trumpeting their takes, and nobody really knows anything. I'm sure the investigation is about a lot more than junior Trump's emails. That just happens to be the tidbit being bandied about at the moment. As to what's actually going on, if anything of import, I'm sure we'll be let in on that which the PTB decide we're supposed to know after the investigation is complete.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 14, 2017 15:53:32 GMT -5
I think there's still far more not known than known at this point. There is an FBI investigation ongoing. The press is trumpeting its take, Trump & Company are trumpeting their take, know-it-alls on Twitter are trumpeting their takes, and nobody really knows anything. I'm sure the investigation is about a lot more than junior Trump's emails. That just happens to be the tidbit being bandied about at the moment. As to what's actually going on, if anything of import, I'm sure we'll be let in on that which the PTB decide we're supposed to know after the investigation is complete. Hillary will have them all killed before they can reveal the truth.
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Icelandic Woman
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Post by Icelandic Woman on Jul 14, 2017 16:05:44 GMT -5
BTW - I am still in favor of turning the USA into 4 countries. California, Oregon and west Washington can break off and be all socialist and stuff. The northeast can break off and be socially progressive and fiscally conservative. The south can break off and be socially conservative and fiscally liberal. And the middle of the country can just hunker down and be ruled by Trump and other Trump like characters. The casualties will be Denver, Maine, Chicago and small pockets of people everywhere else. The countries don't have to split on state lines, we can break up a state that has multiple personalities regionally. Everyone still has ocean access, and we can work together, like the EU. Sure, that is a disaster, but so are we. 5 year grace period to immigrate to any previous USA nation and get issued a passport. Bite your tongue! He did not win this state and I am NOT moving!!!
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Icelandic Woman
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Post by Icelandic Woman on Jul 14, 2017 16:09:13 GMT -5
Under the law it doesn't even matter if the election was actually affected. It is against the law even to make the attempt. It is also against the law for anyone to coordinate in such an attempt. Foreign nationals are not even allowed to donate money to political campaigns or candidates. They can, and do, through the gaping hole provided by the horrible Citizens United decision, but it remains against the law to do so openly. Providing other information or aid is also prohibited. The risk is in setting up a quid pro quo, where an American politician or administration would be more likely to act in favor of the country that provided the aid at the expense of their duty to this one. It SHOULD be considered treasonous. The fact that so many voters, and even worse, politicians, think of it as no big deal, is both embarrassing and disgusting. Republicans should be up in arms just as much as Democrats are. ANYONE who considers the values of this country important should be mad as hell. The ignorance, stupidity and incompetence is just incredible! I read somewhere that Jr doesn't think he did anything wrong since the meeting didn't give him the dirt he was looking for. Really? Someone on FB used this as an example. A husband hires a hitman to kill his wife. The hitman doesn't go through with it. So the husband doesn't think he did anything wrong since the act wasn't completed.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 14, 2017 17:55:52 GMT -5
Another not previously reported person at Jr's meeting. A former Russian counter-intelligence officer came with the lawyer. The Trump royal family will go down. The lies and cover up continue. Trump Tower Russia meeting: At least eight people in the roomWashington (CNN)The June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower with Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort included at least eight people. The revelation of additional participants comes as The Associated Press first reported Friday that a Russian-American lobbyist named Rinat Akhmetshin said he also attended the June 2016 meeting with Donald Trump Jr. CNN has reached out to Akhmetshin for comment. So far acknowledged in attendance: Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort, Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya, Akhmetshin and publicist Rob Goldstone, who helped set up the meeting. A source familiar with the circumstances told CNN there were at least two other people in the room as well, a translator and a representative of the Russian family who had asked Goldstone to set up the meeting. The source did not provide the names. Trump Tower Russia meeting: At least eight people in the room
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 20:18:41 GMT -5
The fact that someone else did the digging isn't relevant to the point though. The point of the question is: doesn't the availability of the truth matter? Like Trump or Hate Trump... did anyone from the Trump campaign manufacture the stuff against Clinton... or... is it just revelations of true facts about Clinton and her business dealings? Well, since nothing came of it, maybe there is no 'truth' to discover. But here is my law abiding answer. Since it is against election law to take items of value from a foreign government, if a foreign government contacts you ( even if it is through a contact, that has a friend that knows a guy whose father knows a guy) then the proper response isn't "I love it!" And setting a merting. It would be to pass the info to the FBI and have them get the information to find out if it is real. You can't just go around breaking the law because someone else may know of some crime that some other person did. This will all get sorted out in the next election when a supporter of the Democratic candidate talks to someone from another country and the Republicans will see what a risk this is. If you can look at yourself in the mirror and honestly say that if Hillary was elected and there was an email stating that one of her people met with a foreign government official, who claims to have been off duty, to get information about Trump, and they claim they got nothing - if you can honestly say that you would be sitting here saying "the truth matters, they did the right thing" then you are entitled to that opinion. But if you really soul search and know that you would see this differently if the shoe was on the other foot, please, help America by not continuing to raise the level of discourse based solely on party lines. You should know by now that for me Truth is paramount. So, yes... I can honestly say "if Hillary was elected and there was an email stating that one of her people met with a foreign government official, who claims to have been off duty, to get information about Trump, and they claim they got nothing"... - "that {I} would be sitting here saying 'the truth matters, they did the right thing'."... as long as what they got was, in fact, truth. If they got nothing (and it turns out that THAT's the truth)... then so-be-it. Remember, I'm not a Trump supporter... I've said this probably hundreds of times by now. I'm a supporter of the truth... whatever it may be, and wherever it may lead.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jul 14, 2017 22:08:37 GMT -5
Another not previously reported person at Jr's meeting. A former Russian counter-intelligence officer came with the lawyer. The Trump royal family will go down. The lies and cover up continue. Trump Tower Russia meeting: At least eight people in the roomWashington (CNN)The June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower with Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort included at least eight people. The revelation of additional participants comes as The Associated Press first reported Friday that a Russian-American lobbyist named Rinat Akhmetshin said he also attended the June 2016 meeting with Donald Trump Jr. CNN has reached out to Akhmetshin for comment. So far acknowledged in attendance: Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort, Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya, Akhmetshin and publicist Rob Goldstone, who helped set up the meeting. A source familiar with the circumstances told CNN there were at least two other people in the room as well, a translator and a representative of the Russian family who had asked Goldstone to set up the meeting. The source did not provide the names. Trump Tower Russia meeting: At least eight people in the roomIt keeps going up. How long does this story need to run for the number of people in this meeting to exceed the number at Trump Daddy's inauguration?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 15, 2017 0:01:43 GMT -5
Another not previously reported person at Jr's meeting. A former Russian counter-intelligence officer came with the lawyer. The Trump royal family will go down. The lies and cover up continue. Trump Tower Russia meeting: At least eight people in the roomWashington (CNN)The June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower with Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort included at least eight people. The revelation of additional participants comes as The Associated Press first reported Friday that a Russian-American lobbyist named Rinat Akhmetshin said he also attended the June 2016 meeting with Donald Trump Jr. CNN has reached out to Akhmetshin for comment. So far acknowledged in attendance: Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort, Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya, Akhmetshin and publicist Rob Goldstone, who helped set up the meeting. A source familiar with the circumstances told CNN there were at least two other people in the room as well, a translator and a representative of the Russian family who had asked Goldstone to set up the meeting. The source did not provide the names. Trump Tower Russia meeting: At least eight people in the roomThat's impossible!! Trump said his high-quality boy is completely transparent.
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swamp
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Don't be a fool. Call me!
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Post by swamp on Jul 15, 2017 8:24:50 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jul 15, 2017 9:11:43 GMT -5
Welllll, the news story might be a little left leaning, but, I have to admit, when you are my age, Yea they are kids!
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jul 15, 2017 9:22:05 GMT -5
I can't read it without being a subscriber.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 15, 2017 15:57:07 GMT -5
The lies and cover up continue. Trump Tower Russia meeting: At least eight people in the roomWashington (CNN)The June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower with Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort included at least eight people. The revelation of additional participants comes as The Associated Press first reported Friday that a Russian-American lobbyist named Rinat Akhmetshin said he also attended the June 2016 meeting with Donald Trump Jr. CNN has reached out to Akhmetshin for comment. So far acknowledged in attendance: Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort, Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya, Akhmetshin and publicist Rob Goldstone, who helped set up the meeting. A source familiar with the circumstances told CNN there were at least two other people in the room as well, a translator and a representative of the Russian family who had asked Goldstone to set up the meeting. The source did not provide the names. Trump Tower Russia meeting: At least eight people in the roomThat's impossible!! Trump said his high-quality boy is completely transparent. Does that mean he's going to stand on the border with a solar panel on his head?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 18, 2017 16:47:33 GMT -5
Only 45% of Trump voters believe Donald Jr. met with a Russian lawyer, even though he admitted to itHe might have to tattoo it on his forehead next. Just 45% of Trump voters believe the President’s eldest son met with a Russian lawyer in June 2016 for dirt on Hillary Clinton, a new poll says — despite Donald Trump Jr. literally having admitted to it last week. Another 32% did not believe the Trump exec held the meeting with Kremlin-linked attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya, according to the Public Policy Polling survey released Tuesday. Twenty-four percent said they weren’t sure. The poll surveyed 836 voters, mostly by phone, from Friday to Monday — well after Trump Jr. tweeted four pages of emails detailing his eager attempts to arrange a meetup with someone described as a “Russian government lawyer.” Complete article here: Only 45% of Trump voters believe Donald Jr. met with a Russian lawyer, even though he admitted to itPPP Survey: Health Care a Mine Field for Republicans; Many Trump Voters in Denial on Russia
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