movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Mar 24, 2017 12:58:59 GMT -5
A few months ago we hired, what I consider to be, a poor person to work the front desk. She makes $11 an hour and works 30 hours a week in MCOLA. She is in her mid 50's. She was sent to us by a temp agency. My CEO and I offered her the job permanently in January (after she had been with us for 90 days). She does a good job. I know very little about her background and how/why she is currently poor. I do know she was raised in an abusive environment. From what I have observed, and this is strictly based on my own conclusions, she is very timid and scared a lot of the time. She doesn't have much confidence and I can see how that has probably held her back throughout her lifetime. She also has some social anxiety issues. I can tell you that she certainly isn't sporting any Coach purses or eating crab legs. Her life seems pretty miserable IMHO (maybe others think it is just fine). In the last few months I have observed the following:
*She does not own a car. She rides her bike to work everyday or takes the bus. She shows up for work everyday on time. Three days she showed up fairly soaked because it was pouring rain outside. She did take the bus those days but still had to walk several blocks in the rain. Public transportation in my area is pretty bad, even though we are a fairly large city.
*She NEVER eats lunch out. Typically she brings a sandwich and sometimes it is ramen. There have been a few days when she didn't bring any lunch. When probed we finally found out that she didn't bring anything because she was having to ration what little food she has in the house. If we try to buy her anything she declines but if anyone has "extra" snacks in their desk and offers her something she will sometimes take it. When we have staff birthday lunches out that are paid for by the organization she will take any left overs we are willing to give her.
*She grows her own vegetables
*She is having a hard time seeing because her glasses are old and she can't afford a new pair.
*She started crying one morning because she accidentally burned a shirt with an iron. She has very few nice tops and she can't afford to replace this one.
*The place she lives is apparently noisy and not the best area. I only assume this because she has complained in the past about noisy neighbors and has also mentioned she is a bit fearful to be out after dark where she lives (this could or could not just be related to her social anxiety. No idea).
Like I stated, I have no idea what life choices she made that did or didn't lead to her current situation and it is really irrelevant to me. She is a SINK and probably receives very little, if anything, from the taxpayers. What little she might get, I am certainly not going to complain about.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 24, 2017 13:00:14 GMT -5
I don't know the percentage of poor people who could be classified as 'at fault'. What I do know (or at least believe) is that children raised in poverty and surrounded by people making bad choices start at a deficit. Their saving grace should be a decent education but so many poverty-stricken children attend terrible schools. Poor family, poor environment, and a poor education are unlikely to lead to good choices and success. Fertility - the ability to access birth control and the knowledge of how to use it are crucially important to ending the cycle of poverty. There's data to support this. However, more than any single factor-- including relative poverty (because American poverty is relative poverty), high crime neighborhood, bad schools, etc.-- the number one predictor of financial success or failure is not education-- it's being a single mother, and being born to one. So, if you do want to say that there are a whole class of people who are not at fault-- or more accurately that are not 100% responsible for their financial hell-- it's these children / people. Now, l shall sit back and enjoy the shitstorm....
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 24, 2017 13:01:46 GMT -5
A few months ago we hired, what I consider to be, a poor person to work the front desk. She makes $11 an hour and works 30 hours a week in MCOLA. She is in her mid 50's. She was sent to us by a temp agency. My CEO and I offered her the job permanently in January (after she had been with us for 90 days). She does a good job. I know very little about her background and how/why she is currently poor. I do know she was raised in an abusive environment. From what I have observed, and this is strictly based on my own conclusions, she is very timid and scared a lot of the time. She doesn't have much confidence and I can see how that has probably held her back throughout her lifetime. She also has some social anxiety issues. I can tell you that she certainly isn't sporting any Coach purses or eating crab legs. Her life seems pretty miserable IMHO (maybe others think it is just fine). In the last few months I have observed the following: *She does not own a car. She rides her bike to work everyday or takes the bus. She shows up for work everyday on time. Three days she showed up fairly soaked because it was pouring rain outside. She did take the bus those days but still had to walk several blocks in the rain. *She NEVER eats lunch out. Typically she brings a sandwich and sometimes it is ramen. There have been a few days when she didn't bring any lunch. When probed we finally found out that she didn't bring anything because she was having to ration what little food she has in the house. If we try to buy her anything she declines but if anyone has "extra" snacks in their desk and offers her something she will sometimes take it. When we have staff birthday lunches out that are paid for by the organization she will take any left overs we are willing to give her. *She grows her own vegetables *She is having a hard time seeing because her glasses are so old and she can't afford a new pair. *She started crying one morning because she accidentally burned a shirt with an iron. She has very few nice tops and she can't afford to replace this one. *The place she lives is apparently noisy and not the best area. I only assume this because she has complained in the past about noisy neighbors and has also mentioned she is a bit fearful to be out after dark where she lives (this could or could not just be related to her social anxiety. No idea). Like I stated, I have no idea what life choices she made that did or didn't lead to her current situation and it is really irrelevant to me. She is a SINK and probably receives very little, if anything, from the taxpayers. What little she might get, I am certainly not going to complain about. Haven't met her, but I love her. We have found that the single best candidates are people whose parents owned a business- especially a business where they worked odd hours-- services, restaurants, etc. They are the "if it needs to be done, I'm going to do it" people.
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Mar 24, 2017 13:04:51 GMT -5
It's a start. I've been seeing a FaceBook meme posted by well-intentioned friends stating, "I don't care if school lunches improve kids' grades. I just want to feed hungry kids." What *I* want to do is find out why so many kids go to school hungry. Is there food in the house but the parents are too lazy to fix anything? Are they selling the groceries they buy with their EBT card for drugs? Are they too drugged out to even buy groceries? Are they working 2 jobs and can't get to the food bank? Did the fathers flee the scene and ignore their obligations? We've gone from free lunches for a few kids (and I use the term "free" loosely since they're paid for by taxpayers) to free for everybody, either to avoid stigma or because a huge % qualify anyway, to free breakfasts, and BackSnacks on the weekend. Yes, I'd LOVE to figure out the root causes and resolve those instead of applying more and more band-aids. if you'd like to get to the root cause and fix it from there, that's great. It's really something we should all look to do as it affects everyone. I just don't believe that's why the OP started this thread. It's the 2nd one in several days from him basically bashing poor people. Where in the OP did I "bash" the poor?
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Mar 24, 2017 13:06:35 GMT -5
DH says "Think of the most average person you know and then realize that half of people are dumber than that." The math is wrong but it's still something to ponder. There's evidence that being in poverty leads to bad choices (it's the equivalent of losing 13 IQ points), that being born into poverty has long term consequences for mental health and prospects, that living in concentrated poverty also worsens your choices of escaping, and that income mobility is declining. So it's nature and nurture together. I think the question more for me is how much of an ethical obligation do we have to help. So, are you suggesting we can, over an extended period of time, reduce poverty by preventing poor people from having kids? That doing so will eventually improve the mental capabilities and economic achievement of overall population?
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 24, 2017 13:13:44 GMT -5
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Mar 24, 2017 13:13:54 GMT -5
I don't know the percentage of poor people who could be classified as 'at fault'. What I do know (or at least believe) is that children raised in poverty and surrounded by people making bad choices start at a deficit. Their saving grace should be a decent education but so many poverty-stricken children attend terrible schools. Poor family, poor environment, and a poor education are unlikely to lead to good choices and success. Fertility - the ability to access birth control and the knowledge of how to use it are crucially important to ending the cycle of poverty. There's data to support this. However, more than any single factor-- including relative poverty (because American poverty is relative poverty), high crime neighborhood, bad schools, etc.-- the number one predictor of financial success or failure is not education-- it's being a single mother, and being born to one. So, if you do want to say that there are a whole class of people who are not at fault-- or more accurately that are not 100% responsible for their financial hell-- it's these children / people. Now, l shall sit back and enjoy the shitstorm.... You and I are generally on opposite sides of the political spectrum but we agree on this point. From my staunchly liberal perspective this is why the ability for a woman to control her fertility is so incredibly important. Not that it cannot be overcome but a 17-year-old girl having a baby is almost guaranteeing a life of poverty for herself and her child. On a related note, I do wonder how many abused and neglected children in this country were 'planned'? I would guess that if every child was conceived by two parents who rationally decided that they were in a good position to welcome a child into this world then the rates of abuse and neglect would rapidly decline. So, free (tax payer provided) birth control on demand. Who is with me ?
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Mar 24, 2017 13:14:59 GMT -5
I don't know the percentage of poor people who could be classified as 'at fault'. What I do know (or at least believe) is that children raised in poverty and surrounded by people making bad choices start at a deficit. Their saving grace should be a decent education but so many poverty-stricken children attend terrible schools. Poor family, poor environment, and a poor education are unlikely to lead to good choices and success. Fertility - the ability to access birth control and the knowledge of how to use it are crucially important to ending the cycle of poverty. To what extent do you think the fertility issue is impacted by taxpayer subsidies that increase with every additional child? Is it possible that fertility levels among the economically disadvantaged isn't due to lack of access to or knowledge about how to use birth control? Rather, that having more kids increases the family income? We seem to have conflicting agendas. On one hand we want to reduce the number of children living in poverty. On the other hand, we encourage poor people to have more children. Kind of like subsidizing tobacco farmers while running anti smoking campaigns.
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on Mar 24, 2017 13:21:13 GMT -5
A few months ago we hired, what I consider to be, a poor person to work the front desk. She makes $11 an hour and works 30 hours a week in MCOLA. She is in her mid 50's. She was sent to us by a temp agency. My CEO and I offered her the job permanently in January (after she had been with us for 90 days). She does a good job. I know very little about her background and how/why she is currently poor. I do know she was raised in an abusive environment. From what I have observed, and this is strictly based on my own conclusions, she is very timid and scared a lot of the time. She doesn't have much confidence and I can see how that has probably held her back throughout her lifetime. She also has some social anxiety issues. I can tell you that she certainly isn't sporting any Coach purses or eating crab legs. Her life seems pretty miserable IMHO (maybe others think it is just fine). In the last few months I have observed the following: *She does not own a car. She rides her bike to work everyday or takes the bus. She shows up for work everyday on time. Three days she showed up fairly soaked because it was pouring rain outside. She did take the bus those days but still had to walk several blocks in the rain. Public transportation in my area is pretty bad, even though we are a fairly large city. *She NEVER eats lunch out. Typically she brings a sandwich and sometimes it is ramen. There have been a few days when she didn't bring any lunch. When probed we finally found out that she didn't bring anything because she was having to ration what little food she has in the house. If we try to buy her anything she declines but if anyone has "extra" snacks in their desk and offers her something she will sometimes take it. When we have staff birthday lunches out that are paid for by the organization she will take any left overs we are willing to give her. *She grows her own vegetables *She is having a hard time seeing because her glasses are so old and she can't afford a new pair. *She started crying one morning because she accidentally burned a shirt with an iron. She has very few nice tops and she can't afford to replace this one. *The place she lives is apparently noisy and not the best area. I only assume this because she has complained in the past about noisy neighbors and has also mentioned she is a bit fearful to be out after dark where she lives (this could or could not just be related to her social anxiety. No idea). Like I stated, I have no idea what life choices she made that did or didn't lead to her current situation and it is really irrelevant to me. She is a SINK and probably receives very little, if anything, from the taxpayers. What little she might get, I am certainly not going to complain about. This type of behavior is fairly common in those who grew up in abusive homes and then were in abusive relationships. Some people growing up in such families don't realize that all families and relationships are like that and they just go from one bad relationship to another. If a woman has kids, it's even harder to break the cycle and their kids grow up thinking the same thing and it goes on and on. I grew up in a dysfunctional home with alcoholic, abusive parents. My mom married my stepfather who was alcoholic and didn't like the three kids she already had. So we all got thrown out before graduating high school and both my sisters and I married abusive men. It wasn't until many years later when I was in therapy, that I realized what had happened to me growing up and how that affected my life choices. When I was in my 40's I finally decided to fix myself after much therapy and two hospitalizations for depression. It's not always easy to change and some people don't get the help they need to change their lives. When I left my alcoholic and abusive husband, I had a baby and no money or a place to live. We had the clothes on our backs, but not much else. I was fortunate that someone took me in and helped me get back on my feet, but it wasn't easy. I never got any CS because he disappeared and I wasn't able to find him. This was back in the 70's when the courts didn't do anything if the baby daddy didn't pay. Basically it was "too bad, so sad, now go figure it out". All th
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Mar 24, 2017 13:23:41 GMT -5
tskeeter - I don't think people consciously have more children to get more benefits. That's just a safety net that's available and gets used. Children are much more expensive to care for than benefits provide. There is certainly a very strong argument to be made that welfare reforms in the 1960s to ensure people really weren't suffering did in fact contribute to the breakdown of nuclear families, particularly among the poorest people.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 24, 2017 13:24:35 GMT -5
why do you care so much about why poor people are poor? Are you going to try and fix the problems they have? It's a start. I've been seeing a FaceBook meme posted by well-intentioned friends stating, "I don't care if school lunches improve kids' grades. I just want to feed hungry kids." What *I* want to do is find out why so many kids go to school hungry. Is there food in the house but the parents are too lazy to fix anything? Are they selling the groceries they buy with their EBT card for drugs? Are they too drugged out to even buy groceries? Are they working 2 jobs and can't get to the food bank? Did the fathers flee the scene and ignore their obligations? We've gone from free lunches for a few kids (and I use the term "free" loosely since they're paid for by taxpayers) to free for everybody, either to avoid stigma or because a huge % qualify anyway, to free breakfasts, and BackSnacks on the weekend. Yes, I'd LOVE to figure out the root causes and resolve those instead of applying more and more band-aids. The problem with this train of thought is that it does not solve the immediate problem that schools are dealing with. The kids have absolutely no control over what their parents are or are not doing, but they are coming to school hungry and it is affecting their education. While the reason for this should be researched, it is more imperative to feed the kids NOW. It is a band aid, but it works.
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on Mar 24, 2017 13:25:11 GMT -5
I never got food stamps, WIC, or any other type of gov't handout. I went out and got a job, found a cheap apartment and found a babysitter for my son. 2nd H didn't beat me, but was mentally abusive. But he did provide for us and adopted my son, so at least it was somewhat better.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 24, 2017 13:26:08 GMT -5
I would love to think every single person has the same capacity to do whatever they want as anyone else. But the long term physical, mental and psychological effects of things like lead poisoning are extremely profound.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 24, 2017 13:28:16 GMT -5
I would love to think every single person has the same capacity to do whatever they want as anyone else. But the long term physical, mental and psychological effects of things like lead poisoning are extremely profound. nope, that's all hogwash - they're just not motivated enough to transcend these issues!
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 24, 2017 13:34:27 GMT -5
I would love to think every single person has the same capacity to do whatever they want as anyone else. But the long term physical, mental and psychological effects of things like lead poisoning are extremely profound. nope, that's all hogwash - they're just not motivated enough to transcend these issues! I know you are joking to make a point but just looking at the boy in the rueters piece breaks my heart. Seeing that cute face and knowing how he is already had so much damage done to him he will always suffer the effects is heartbreaking to me. www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-lead-testing/
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 24, 2017 13:35:56 GMT -5
nope, that's all hogwash - they're just not motivated enough to transcend these issues! I know you are joking to make a point but just looking at the boy in the rueters piece breaks my heart. Seeing that cute face and knowing how he is already had so much damage done to him he will always suffer the effects is heartbreaking to me. www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-lead-testing/No, I am 100% with you. They will have a lot to overcome from circumstances that they had nothing to do with. I hate that these kids are still suffering.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 24, 2017 13:36:50 GMT -5
A few months ago we hired, what I consider to be, a poor person to work the front desk. She makes $11 an hour and works 30 hours a week in MCOLA. She is in her mid 50's. She was sent to us by a temp agency. My CEO and I offered her the job permanently in January (after she had been with us for 90 days). She does a good job. I know very little about her background and how/why she is currently poor. I do know she was raised in an abusive environment. From what I have observed, and this is strictly based on my own conclusions, she is very timid and scared a lot of the time. She doesn't have much confidence and I can see how that has probably held her back throughout her lifetime. She also has some social anxiety issues. I can tell you that she certainly isn't sporting any Coach purses or eating crab legs. Her life seems pretty miserable IMHO (maybe others think it is just fine). In the last few months I have observed the following: *She does not own a car. She rides her bike to work everyday or takes the bus. She shows up for work everyday on time. Three days she showed up fairly soaked because it was pouring rain outside. She did take the bus those days but still had to walk several blocks in the rain. *She NEVER eats lunch out. Typically she brings a sandwich and sometimes it is ramen. There have been a few days when she didn't bring any lunch. When probed we finally found out that she didn't bring anything because she was having to ration what little food she has in the house. If we try to buy her anything she declines but if anyone has "extra" snacks in their desk and offers her something she will sometimes take it. When we have staff birthday lunches out that are paid for by the organization she will take any left overs we are willing to give her. *She grows her own vegetables *She is having a hard time seeing because her glasses are so old and she can't afford a new pair. *She started crying one morning because she accidentally burned a shirt with an iron. She has very few nice tops and she can't afford to replace this one. *The place she lives is apparently noisy and not the best area. I only assume this because she has complained in the past about noisy neighbors and has also mentioned she is a bit fearful to be out after dark where she lives (this could or could not just be related to her social anxiety. No idea). Like I stated, I have no idea what life choices she made that did or didn't lead to her current situation and it is really irrelevant to me. She is a SINK and probably receives very little, if anything, from the taxpayers. What little she might get, I am certainly not going to complain about. Haven't met her, but I love her. We have found that the single best candidates are people whose parents owned a business- especially a business where they worked odd hours-- services, restaurants, etc. They are the "if it needs to be done, I'm going to do it" people. crap, you'd hire me.
But seriously, I like to hire farm kids. they usually are very resourceful and do whatever needs to be done.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Mar 24, 2017 13:45:48 GMT -5
tskeeter - I don't think people consciously have more children to get more benefits. That's just a safety net that's available and gets used. Children are much more expensive to care for than benefits provide. There is certainly a very strong argument to be made that welfare reforms in the 1960s to ensure people really weren't suffering did in fact contribute to the breakdown of nuclear families, particularly among the poorest people. Anecdotal evidence that I have heard indicates that having children for more benefits does happen in at least some cases. Even if the anecdotal evidence is not reliable, the knowledge that any additional children will garner additional taxpayer subsidies may encourage people to be less careful regarding birth control. One of the general principles of social engineering is to pay for behavior you want people to exhibit and tax the behavior you want to discourage. What does our social policy do? Encourage or discourage?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 24, 2017 13:47:59 GMT -5
Why is this elementary school "shitsville?" What causes this? Ummmm... I actually came up with that term but they agreed . Close to 100% poverty, appalling test scores, no parental involvement, not the best teachers, discipline issues. The list just goes on and on. There are fixes for this. Unfortunately not the lack of parenting but learning that what passes for behavior at home doesn't work in school or the real world. You get crappy teachers because the good ones are afraid of the students sometimes and their parents all the time. An admin that backs their teachers and a school board that backs admin would help.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Mar 24, 2017 15:40:09 GMT -5
I think it's a combination of both.
So, I've been reading Evicted...And it's a combination of both fault and unfortunate.
It's really amazing how folks take advantage of the poor when it comes to housing.
And, if slum lords can take advantage of the poor over housing, I think there's opportunity for others to take advantage of the poor in other areas.
And the interesting thing is..many poor ARE willing to do things like work to pay off rent. They will paint rooms, clean, fix rotting floorboards, etc. And then they will earn a couple of bucks, literally.
The landlord that this author followed around purposefully didn't put stoves in houses they rented to poor people. Because fixing stoves, etc costs the land lord money.
A fucking hot plate was highly coveted.
How many of us here, could cook cheap food without something to cook it on/in?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 24, 2017 15:50:38 GMT -5
I think it's a combination of both. So, I've been reading Evicted...And it's a combination of both fault and unfortunate. It's really amazing how folks take advantage of the poor when it comes to housing. And, if slum lords can take advantage of the poor over housing, I think there's opportunity for others to take advantage of the poor in other areas. And the interesting thing is..many poor ARE willing to do things like work to pay off rent. They will paint rooms, clean, fix rotting floorboards, etc. And then they will earn a couple of bucks, literally. The landlord that this author followed around purposefully didn't put stoves in houses they rented to poor people. Because fixing stoves, etc costs the land lord money. A fucking hot plate was highly coveted. How many of us here, could cook cheap food without something to cook it on/in? I'm a landlord and I intentionally don't provide some appliances because they cost money. That doesn't mean I'm taking advantage of the poor people. I put right in the ad what appliances are include/not included. It isn't uncommon for landlords not to supply some appliances in my area so most tenants have their own. If I buy a unit with a working fridge I tell the tenant that they can use it until it dies but it is not included in the lease. I even put in the lease that the fridge is not included. Why? Because fridges are expensive to repair.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 15:52:34 GMT -5
I just saw another example of poor choices today. We know that right now, a disproportionately high number of poor people smoke. DBIL is an example; he lives in CA and we've been sending him cigarettes every once in awhile because he and his wife struggle and the taxxes on cigarettes in CA are crazy high. She's on disability (COPD), he's got a small military pension and emphysema and is over 80 years old. Last year after DH called to tell him of his terminal leukemia diagnosis, after DBIL pulled himself together he asked if we could send him more cigarettes. That was last September. Well, DBIL called a couple of days ago. Could I send him more cigarettes? He told me to send the receipt so he could pay me back but he never did when DH sent them. And yes, this is the one to whom I send $1,000/month for 24 months after DH's death. They'd called me last week and were so grateful because their car needed a ton of work and that check covered it. Sooooo- I went out and bought 10 cartons of generic cigarettes. With the state sales taxes loaded up on top of the regular tobacco taxes, they were $280. Another $20 to mail them. I felt it necessary to tell the guy behind me in the store that they were for my BIL in CA. He said that before he quit he estimated he was spending $1,200 a year on smokes. I almost feel that in providing other support such as food stamps, we're subsidizing people's smoking habits. Or they could buy school supplies for their kids. I almost considered telling DBIL that next time I'd make it easy for him to pay me back by just taking it out of the monthly check, but I just can't. $300 every 6 months won't kill me- but it does mean that his claim that he smokes only 7 cigarettes a day is an understatement unless he's sharing them with his friends.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 15:59:14 GMT -5
I think it's a combination of both. So, I've been reading Evicted...And it's a combination of both fault and unfortunate. It's really amazing how folks take advantage of the poor when it comes to housing. And, if slum lords can take advantage of the poor over housing, I think there's opportunity for others to take advantage of the poor in other areas. And the interesting thing is..many poor ARE willing to do things like work to pay off rent. They will paint rooms, clean, fix rotting floorboards, etc. And then they will earn a couple of bucks, literally. The landlord that this author followed around purposefully didn't put stoves in houses they rented to poor people. Because fixing stoves, etc costs the land lord money. A fucking hot plate was highly coveted. How many of us here, could cook cheap food without something to cook it on/in? I'm a landlord and I intentionally don't provide some appliances because they cost money. That doesn't mean I'm taking advantage of the poor people. I put right in the ad what appliances are include/not included. It isn't uncommon for landlords not to supply some appliances in my area so most tenants have their own. If I buy a unit with a working fridge I tell the tenant that they can use it until it dies but it is not included in the lease. I even put in the lease that the fridge is not included. Why? Because fridges are expensive to repair. I'm sure it's a regional thing, but I've never heard of a rental not having appliances. That seems pretty crazy to me as most people I know that rent aren't lugging around fridges and stoves.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 24, 2017 16:02:47 GMT -5
I'm a landlord and I intentionally don't provide some appliances because they cost money. That doesn't mean I'm taking advantage of the poor people. I put right in the ad what appliances are include/not included. It isn't uncommon for landlords not to supply some appliances in my area so most tenants have their own. If I buy a unit with a working fridge I tell the tenant that they can use it until it dies but it is not included in the lease. I even put in the lease that the fridge is not included. Why? Because fridges are expensive to repair. I'm sure it's a regional thing, but I've never heard of a rental not having appliances. That seems pretty crazy to me as most people I know that rent aren't lugging around fridges and stoves. Me too. That's why most houses for sale have appliances included--nobody wants to move them. (Except, of course, washer and dryer. Sometime they are included, sometimes not.)
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movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,360
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Post by movingforward on Mar 24, 2017 16:10:30 GMT -5
I'm a landlord and I intentionally don't provide some appliances because they cost money. That doesn't mean I'm taking advantage of the poor people. I put right in the ad what appliances are include/not included. It isn't uncommon for landlords not to supply some appliances in my area so most tenants have their own. If I buy a unit with a working fridge I tell the tenant that they can use it until it dies but it is not included in the lease. I even put in the lease that the fridge is not included. Why? Because fridges are expensive to repair. I'm sure it's a regional thing, but I've never heard of a rental not having appliances. That seems pretty crazy to me as most people I know that rent aren't lugging around fridges and stoves. Same here. All kitchen appliances are included. About 10-15 years ago it was uncommon for them to have washer and dryers but now most even have those.
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Iggy aka IG
Senior Associate
Joined: Oct 25, 2012 12:23:23 GMT -5
Posts: 12,456
Location: Good ol' USA
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Post by Iggy aka IG on Mar 24, 2017 16:26:53 GMT -5
There's data to support this. However, more than any single factor-- including relative poverty (because American poverty is relative poverty), high crime neighborhood, bad schools, etc.-- the number one predictor of financial success or failure is not education-- it's being a single mother, and being born to one. So, if you do want to say that there are a whole class of people who are not at fault-- or more accurately that are not 100% responsible for their financial hell-- it's these children / people. Now, l shall sit back and enjoy the shitstorm.... You and I are generally on opposite sides of the political spectrum but we agree on this point. From my staunchly liberal perspective this is why the ability for a woman to control her fertility is so incredibly important. Not that it cannot be overcome but a 17-year-old girl having a baby is almost guaranteeing a life of poverty for herself and her child. On a related note, I do wonder how many abused and neglected children in this country were 'planned'? I would guess that if every child was conceived by two parents who rationally decided that they were in a good position to welcome a child into this world then the rates of abuse and neglect would rapidly decline. So, free (tax payer provided) birth control on demand. Who is with me ? It's free via ACA insurance, or via what I did as a broke teenager, Planned Parenthood.
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Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 24, 2017 16:29:37 GMT -5
I'm a landlord and I intentionally don't provide some appliances because they cost money. That doesn't mean I'm taking advantage of the poor people. I put right in the ad what appliances are include/not included. It isn't uncommon for landlords not to supply some appliances in my area so most tenants have their own. If I buy a unit with a working fridge I tell the tenant that they can use it until it dies but it is not included in the lease. I even put in the lease that the fridge is not included. Why? Because fridges are expensive to repair. I'm sure it's a regional thing, but I've never heard of a rental not having appliances. That seems pretty crazy to me as most people I know that rent aren't lugging around fridges and stoves. Definitely regional. I've had tenants put my in the basement as they have their own.
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NastyWoman
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 20:50:37 GMT -5
Posts: 14,406
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Post by NastyWoman on Mar 24, 2017 17:30:32 GMT -5
It's a start. I've been seeing a FaceBook meme posted by well-intentioned friends stating, "I don't care if school lunches improve kids' grades. I just want to feed hungry kids." What *I* want to do is find out why so many kids go to school hungry. Is there food in the house but the parents are too lazy to fix anything? Are they selling the groceries they buy with their EBT card for drugs? Are they too drugged out to even buy groceries? Are they working 2 jobs and can't get to the food bank? Did the fathers flee the scene and ignore their obligations? We've gone from free lunches for a few kids (and I use the term "free" loosely since they're paid for by taxpayers) to free for everybody, either to avoid stigma or because a huge % qualify anyway, to free breakfasts, and BackSnacks on the weekend. Yes, I'd LOVE to figure out the root causes and resolve those instead of applying more and more band-aids. The problem with this train of thought is that it does not solve the immediate problem that schools are dealing with. The kids have absolutely no control over what their parents are or are not doing, but they are coming to school hungry and it is affecting their education. While the reason for this should be researched, it is more imperative to feed the kids NOW. It is a band aid, but it works. since I can't give this post a x100
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milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
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Post by milee on Mar 24, 2017 17:59:51 GMT -5
I don't know the percentage of poor people who could be classified as 'at fault'. What I do know (or at least believe) is that children raised in poverty and surrounded by people making bad choices start at a deficit. Their saving grace should be a decent education but so many poverty-stricken children attend terrible schools. Poor family, poor environment, and a poor education are unlikely to lead to good choices and success. This x 1000. IMHO the poor quality of so much of our public school system - and especially poor quality in poor areas - is the single biggest civil rights issue of our times.
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zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 24, 2017 18:11:34 GMT -5
It's not the schools fault. But no one is willing to admit that. A school is as good as its admins and teachers but most of all, the students. I'm sorry the govt has become the support of families instead of their parents but this dependency has got to stop. Unintended consequences of trying to lift people out of the poverty level instead of them working their way out.
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