Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Dec 22, 2016 19:04:53 GMT -5
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Dec 22, 2016 19:22:51 GMT -5
GEL,
If 2.5m enter and 2.5 m are deported (not counting those that leave of their own accord) I still see that as net zero. If 1m that are deported return are they not part of the 2.5m that enter? That's all I'm saying.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 22, 2016 20:30:18 GMT -5
"Would you want me starting up a thread every time I see something morally objectionable? Would you want me commenting in every thread that concerns a moral issue?"If u wrote a good well thought out premise..reason for the thread...why not. up to me whether to participate or not..probably would unless no interest in topic... Thing is, this is a message board...actually this particuler part it of is dedicated to politics..so if your thread was regarding politics go for it... You probably wouldn't mind, Dezi, but about 99% of the rest of the board (including me) would mind a LOT. Nobody wants to see Virgil's moral stances spread out over 400 threads. In fact, most people would have an out-and-out shit fit about it. Guaranteed.
Should I 'like' this because it's supporting my point, or...?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 22, 2016 20:43:25 GMT -5
You don't realize you're supporting her point? If 20 illegal immigrants come into the country and you deport one of them 20 times (since he keeps coming back), your math says 0 net immigrants but there are 19 new bodies stateside. What you want is to argue that repeat immigrants are counted multiple times in the incoming figures, not the deportation figures. I don't know if this is true or not.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 22, 2016 20:45:07 GMT -5
We pay one way or another. Illegals are a drain on the taxpayers so I would rather pay more for lettuce.
I have seen this many times over the years. I'd be interested in a link to any study that thoroughly examines that. I do know that illegals:
-Pay into SS without ever getting any back out -Pay income taxes -Pay sales taxes, gas taxes etc. -Buy stuff that supports businesses and our economy. -Work in a variety of jobs that you don't see too many UE Americans doing. -Generate lots of business success for those businesses
In other words, they juice our economy quite significantly in numerous areas.
I'd like to see a rigorous study on the same. I'd bet you'd be disappointed, though.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 22, 2016 20:47:26 GMT -5
The anti Trump threads were getting kind of ridiculous in number, especially considering the guy hasn't actually done anything yet.We get it, the lefties don't like Trump. the guy hasn't actually done anything yet.
Refuses to separate his business interests from his governing duties Refuses daily intelligence briefings because he's "smart" Snubbed our strongest ally Upended 40 years of diplomacy with China and managed to do so looking like an idiot Effusively praised a country that harbors terrorist groups seeking to destroy us Tried to pressure Obama on a UN resolution Handed out cabinet appointments like candy canes to people with little to no relevant background or experience This leftie likes competence Who's your "strongest ally"? China? You're not serious?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Dec 22, 2016 20:54:03 GMT -5
You probably wouldn't mind, Dezi, but about 99% of the rest of the board (including me) would mind a LOT. Nobody wants to see Virgil's moral stances spread out over 400 threads. In fact, most people would have an out-and-out shit fit about it. Guaranteed.
Should I 'like' this because it's supporting my point, or...? lol...yes...and I'm supporting your point. However, I would not like to see anything spread over 400 threads - not even your stuff!
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 22, 2016 20:57:32 GMT -5
You don't realize you're supporting her point? If 20 illegal immigrants come into the country and you deport one of them 20 times (since he keeps coming back), your math says 0 net immigrants but there are 19 new bodies stateside. What you want is to argue that repeat immigrants are counted multiple times in the incoming figures, not the deportation figures. I don't know if this is true or not. It would pretty much have to be. Regardless, though, the net zero does not mean that number deported equals number incoming. We also have to take into account those that leave on their own. I'm not sure how accurate the counts are of how many are here in any given year, but if the methodology of the counts are similar, and the numbers show a flat line over the last several years after a steady increase previously, I would believe that over some anecdotal report.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Dec 22, 2016 21:57:02 GMT -5
the guy hasn't actually done anything yet.
Refuses to separate his business interests from his governing duties Refuses daily intelligence briefings because he's "smart" Snubbed our strongest ally Upended 40 years of diplomacy with China and managed to do so looking like an idiot Effusively praised a country that harbors terrorist groups seeking to destroy us Tried to pressure Obama on a UN resolution Handed out cabinet appointments like candy canes to people with little to no relevant background or experience This leftie likes competence Who's your "strongest ally"? China? You're not serious? Are you kidding? . You don't know who is considered our strongest ally Maybe YOU should run for prez.... www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-britain-idUSKBN13O2F1
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Dec 22, 2016 22:01:07 GMT -5
Virgil,
I believe I made that point already.
If 1m that are deported return are they not part of the 2.5m that enter? That's all I'm saying.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 22, 2016 22:02:47 GMT -5
I didn't realize Pres. Trump had snubbed the UK. The only snub I'm aware of is the brouhaha with the Chinese. As long as we're on the same page that China isn't the US's bosom buddy.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Dec 22, 2016 22:08:01 GMT -5
I didn't realize Pres. Trump had snubbed the UK. The only snub I'm aware of is the brouhaha with the Chinese. As long as we're on the same page that China isn't the US's bosom buddy. Oh yeah. He commited several gaffes with the Brits. No one has accused him of being a diplomat
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 22, 2016 22:21:42 GMT -5
You don't realize you're supporting her point? If 20 illegal immigrants come into the country and you deport one of them 20 times (since he keeps coming back), your math says 0 net immigrants but there are 19 new bodies stateside. What you want is to argue that repeat immigrants are counted multiple times in the incoming figures, not the deportation figures. I don't know if this is true or not. It would pretty much have to be. Regardless, though, the net zero does not mean that number deported equals number incoming. We also have to take into account those that leave on their own. I'm not sure how accurate the counts are of how many are here in any given year, but if the methodology of the counts are similar, and the numbers show a flat line over the last several years after a steady increase previously, I would believe that over some anecdotal report. So the water isn't getting any deeper is what you're saying. Now the outstanding issues are: - Is the water circulating in your house causing the planks to rot? (Are illegal immigrants a net drain on your infrastructure?)
- Is the water bringing in a lot of detritus? (How many criminals, anti-US nationalists [La Raza types], etc. are coming in over the border?)
- Is the water carrying away a lot of your furniture? (How much wealth is leaving the US for South America?)
- Is a rabid skunk going to float into your house? (Will the porous southern border be the incursion point for the dirty bomb that wipes out Seattle?)
- Is the water going to short out your sump pump? (Are you going to find yourself in the same boat as some European countries, where deportation is impossible either because enclaves have grown too large or too politically powerful?)
I'm curious: now that Pres. Trump seems to be reneging on his promise to build a wall, do you consider it a good thing or a bad thing? Virgil,
I believe I made that point already.
If 1m that are deported return are they not part of the 2.5m that enter? That's all I'm saying.
Ah.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 22, 2016 22:31:00 GMT -5
As I've said, I am in favor of deporting every single person here illegally. Whether they are a net benefit or cost to society is arguable, but to me irrelevant. It is a matter of fairness and of law. The wall is idiotic, and always has been. It's red meat to the unthinking masses. There was an Algerian terrorist arrested here right before the Millennium celebration. He had previously lived in Montreal, and entered the U.S. from British Columbia. Someone attacking Seattle would be more likely to come a little bit south rather than 1400 miles north.
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dezailoooooo
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Post by dezailoooooo on Dec 22, 2016 22:34:07 GMT -5
GEL My anger stems from fear. Fear for the future of a young woman who cannot take care of herself. She will most likely outlive me and her father. At which point her welfare will be at the mercy of a society who demonstrated that it does not care about the most vulnerable among us. I'm a conservative and I've had nothing but fear for the last 8 years. I just chose not to channeling it into constant whining and bitching on the boards. Yes, I could block those annoying People but truth be told, the over-the-top anger cracks me up Definitly not being a conservative , a liberal I guess though I think of myself as more in the middle... really would like to know exactly what u feared for the past eight years... I know people are afraid now with the change coming but here , with the Donalds comments on his ideas and the way he ran a campaign in the primaries then the campaign against Hillery..I am sure, even if u believe 100% in everything he has said, I believe u can see the man is different and for many..there might be a reason for fears.. Under Obama..even if u disagreed with his policies...ok, understand but where was the fears..why specifically..It's one thing to not agree with a POTUS reign , policies but fear..? Can u explain, no argument here just would love to know to better understand the rift..
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 22, 2016 22:54:50 GMT -5
As I've said, I am in favor of deporting every single person here illegally. Whether they are a net benefit or cost to society is arguable, but to me irrelevant. It is a matter of fairness and of law. The wall is idiotic, and always has been. It's red meat to the unthinking masses. There was an Algerian terrorist arrested here right before the Millennium celebration. He had previously lived in Montreal, and entered the U.S. from British Columbia. Someone attacking Seattle would be more likely to come a little bit south rather than 1400 miles north. Lazy terrorist scum.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 22, 2016 23:06:17 GMT -5
As I've said, I am in favor of deporting every single person here illegally. Whether they are a net benefit or cost to society is arguable, but to me irrelevant. It is a matter of fairness and of law. The wall is idiotic, and always has been. It's red meat to the unthinking masses. There was an Algerian terrorist arrested here right before the Millennium celebration. He had previously lived in Montreal, and entered the U.S. from British Columbia. Someone attacking Seattle would be more likely to come a little bit south rather than 1400 miles north. Lazy terrorist scum. Well, supposedly he was ultimately on his way to Los Angeles. Must have been easier to prepare for terrorist attacks while living and travelling in Canada rather than Mexico, I guess.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Dec 22, 2016 23:21:10 GMT -5
I'm a conservative and I've had nothing but fear for the last 8 years. I just chose not to channeling it into constant whining and bitching on the boards. Yes, I could block those annoying People but truth be told, the over-the-top anger cracks me up Definitly not being a conservative , a liberal I guess though I think of myself as more in the middle... really would like to know exactly what u feared for the past eight years... I know people are afraid now with the change coming but here , with the Donalds comments on his ideas and the way he ran a campaign in the primaries then the campaign against Hillery..I am sure, even if u believe 100% in everything he has said, I believe u can see the man is different and for many..there might be a reason for fears.. Under Obama..even if u disagreed with his policies...ok, understand but where was the fears..why specifically..It's one thing to not agree with a POTUS reign , policies but fear..? Can u explain, no argument here just would love to know to better understand the rift.. It is interesting to me why some people had so much fear during the last 8 years. They never seemed able or willing to say WHY they were fearful. Did Obama campaign on hate? Did he encourage violence? Did he react with a short temper? Or display ignorance of the world? What, exactly, were they afraid of? All I heard was "he was a secret Muslim, ISIS leader who was importing terrorists".
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 22, 2016 23:29:00 GMT -5
Lazy terrorist scum. Well, supposedly he was ultimately on his way to Los Angeles. Must have been easier to prepare for terrorist attacks while living and travelling in Canada rather than Mexico, I guess. They keep telling us that carrying contraband over the border is getting more and more impossible by the year. By next year it should be super impossible. Super duper impossible by 2018. By 2019 it will be so impossible that even suggesting something was smuggled over the northern border will be punishable by law. So your southern border is your Achilles heel. The Canadian government doth not lie.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Dec 22, 2016 23:48:39 GMT -5
Well, supposedly he was ultimately on his way to Los Angeles. Must have been easier to prepare for terrorist attacks while living and travelling in Canada rather than Mexico, I guess. They keep telling us that carrying contraband over the border is getting more and more impossible by the year. By next year it should be super impossible. Super duper impossible by 2018. By 2019 it will be so impossible that even suggesting something was smuggled over the northern border will be punishable by law. So your southern border is your Achilles heel. The Canadian government doth not lie. I can tell you, from personall experience, that carrying tomatoes and grapes across the border was forbidden - and earned me a threat of a $300 fine if it happened again.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 22, 2016 23:53:56 GMT -5
They keep telling us that carrying contraband over the border is getting more and more impossible by the year. By next year it should be super impossible. Super duper impossible by 2018. By 2019 it will be so impossible that even suggesting something was smuggled over the northern border will be punishable by law. So your southern border is your Achilles heel. The Canadian government doth not lie. I can tell you, from personall experience, that carrying tomatoes and grapes across the border was forbidden - and earned me a threat of a $300 fine if it happened again. Here is the problem. You should have gotten the fine for the crime!
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 23, 2016 0:19:44 GMT -5
They keep telling us that carrying contraband over the border is getting more and more impossible by the year. By next year it should be super impossible. Super duper impossible by 2018. By 2019 it will be so impossible that even suggesting something was smuggled over the northern border will be punishable by law. So your southern border is your Achilles heel. The Canadian government doth not lie. I can tell you, from personall experience, that carrying tomatoes and grapes across the border was forbidden - and earned me a threat of a $300 fine if it happened again. Yeah, but just like the terrorist, it was caught on the AMERICAN side, right?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 23, 2016 3:35:09 GMT -5
I'm a conservative and I've had nothing but fear for the last 8 years. I just chose not to channeling it into constant whining and bitching on the boards. Yes, I could block those annoying People but truth be told, the over-the-top anger cracks me up Definitly not being a conservative , a liberal I guess though I think of myself as more in the middle... really would like to know exactly what u feared for the past eight years... I know people are afraid now with the change coming but here , with the Donalds comments on his ideas and the way he ran a campaign in the primaries then the campaign against Hillery..I am sure, even if u believe 100% in everything he has said, I believe u can see the man is different and for many..there might be a reason for fears.. Under Obama..even if u disagreed with his policies...ok, understand but where was the fears..why specifically..It's one thing to not agree with a POTUS reign , policies but fear..? Can u explain, no argument here just would love to know to better understand the rift.. I've explained my fears in here. I believe our leader and the liberal ideology of open borders had made us unsafe.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 23, 2016 3:36:54 GMT -5
Definitly not being a conservative , a liberal I guess though I think of myself as more in the middle... really would like to know exactly what u feared for the past eight years... I know people are afraid now with the change coming but here , with the Donalds comments on his ideas and the way he ran a campaign in the primaries then the campaign against Hillery..I am sure, even if u believe 100% in everything he has said, I believe u can see the man is different and for many..there might be a reason for fears.. Under Obama..even if u disagreed with his policies...ok, understand but where was the fears..why specifically..It's one thing to not agree with a POTUS reign , policies but fear..? Can u explain, no argument here just would love to know to better understand the rift.. It is interesting to me why some people had so much fear during the last 8 years. They never seemed able or willing to say WHY they were fearful. Did Obama campaign on hate? Did he encourage violence? Did he react with a short temper? Or display ignorance of the world? What, exactly, were they afraid of? All I heard was "he was a secret Muslim, ISIS leader who was importing terrorists". I explained what my fears were in this thread. But as usual, because you disagree that means my fears aren't valid
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dezailoooooo
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Post by dezailoooooo on Dec 23, 2016 8:26:32 GMT -5
Definitly not being a conservative , a liberal I guess though I think of myself as more in the middle... really would like to know exactly what u feared for the past eight years... I know people are afraid now with the change coming but here , with the Donalds comments on his ideas and the way he ran a campaign in the primaries then the campaign against Hillery..I am sure, even if u believe 100% in everything he has said, I believe u can see the man is different and for many..there might be a reason for fears.. Under Obama..even if u disagreed with his policies...ok, understand but where was the fears..why specifically..It's one thing to not agree with a POTUS reign , policies but fear..? Can u explain, no argument here just would love to know to better understand the rift.. I've explained my fears in here. I believe our leader and the liberal ideology of open borders had made us unsafe. ok...not to argue the point..possible u live in one of those border States u see much of the , illegals...actually as has been mentioned here..under Obama administration , has deported three times as many illegals as next three pub Presidents and supposedly it seems as many illegals are leaving as coming....but what ever... Hopefully the Donald will take away your fears...his wall, his deportations...though where he is getting the $ for all this...Think Mexico is going to politely but no , go pound sand as far as paying for it...hope he doesn't then plan to invade Mexico..believe a wall is estimated at 25 Billion and have no clue as to how many border agents will be hired to cover borders plus to round up this folks who are not here legally I do believe these people will have legal rights before being shipped out...another cost to us.. Personally don't believe we will see much of a dent in the 11 million undocumented..but then again..what do I know..Thanks again for answering my question...was seriously wondering why such a fear for eight years under Obama.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Dec 23, 2016 9:13:08 GMT -5
Apparently the right is more afraid of the brown people than they are of caucasians with nuclear weapons. And they think an idiot who wants another nuclear arms race is going to make them safer. Have I got that right?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 23, 2016 9:16:25 GMT -5
Apparently the right is more afraid of the brown people than they are of caucasians with nuclear weapons. And they think an idiot who wants another nuclear arms race is going to make them safer. Have I got that right? You are such a pleasant person
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Dec 23, 2016 10:00:37 GMT -5
Trump Spanked Your Business? LOL
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 23, 2016 10:30:48 GMT -5
Trump Spanked Your Business? LOL He's been busy.
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dezailoooooo
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Post by dezailoooooo on Dec 23, 2016 10:39:02 GMT -5
As long as people are complaining about threads...by the way, I checked yesterday and where some are complaining about threads with few comments, believe three was the magic #..I found only a couple with so few posts..it can happen, not always a winner as far as interest..almost all way above the magic # of three...check your self..
Now for my bitch..sorry Virgil , not in favor of this changing head lines which really has nothing to do with the thread..annoying and if I am not paying attention , wasting my time going to a place been to to many times..granted clever but for me as much of a pain in the butt as some feel about my numerouse threads.
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