Trump Rustled My Cattle

[Deleted]

Who is the victim? 

If the restauranteer refused to serve someone in a Trump t shirt who was not acting in any way that another patron would get expelled for acting, I'd be on the side of the patron. 

In both cases, so long as the proprietor did not refuse service, I'd support their right to openly declare their bigotry. 

Does that help? 

[djAdvocate]

the real problem is that economic growth in the US has been slowing for half a century.  everyone sees this problem, and nobody knows how to fix it, so when someone comes along that says they CAN fix it, it is not hard to appreciate why people get excited by that.  but i think it is a fools errand.

here is WHY i believe this.

if you watch what happens in the business world, you will find that the larger a company gets, the harder it is to grow rapidly.  there are a host of reasons for this that would require a lot more discussion than i have time for. 

i believe that economies behave similarly.  the larger your economy, the harder it is to grow it rapidly.  so all of this wishing for higher growth is just that: wishing.  it is not going to happen.  it is like wishing you would grow younger, or that time would run backwards, or to use a better analogy, that you can push a 1000 kg boulder around with the same effort it takes to move a 100 kg one.  wish away, but it is never going to happen.

a better approach to governance would be to assume that economic growth will continue to slow to zero, and figure out how to manage that.  but the problem is that this IDEA runs afoul of orthodoxy, which is built on the unrealistic expectation of steady or increasing future growth that is logically absurd.

until we get leadership that recognizes that the orthodoxy is absurd, and puts us on a path toward a sustainable future, we are simply going to set ourselves up for the inevitable crisis that is coming- for this is the ONLY outcome possible other than growth that slows to zero.  President Trump is NOT that leadership.  he believes the orthodoxy.

but i am not an economist, so what the hell do i know, right?

[Gardening Grandma]

Dec 29, 2016 0:00:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the real problem is that economic growth in the US has been slowing for half a century.  everyone sees this problem, and nobody knows how to fix it, so when someone comes along that says they CAN fix it, it is not hard to appreciate why people get excited by that.  but i think it is a fools errand.

here is WHY i believe this.

if you watch what happens in the business world, you will find that the larger a company gets, the harder it is to grow rapidly.  there are a host of reasons for this that would require a lot more discussion than i have time for. 

i believe that economies behave similarly.  the larger your economy, the harder it is to grow it rapidly.  so all of this wishing for higher growth is just that: wishing.  it is not going to happen.  it is like wishing you would grow younger, or that time would run backwards, or to use a better analogy, that you can push a 1000 kg boulder around with the same effort it takes to move a 100 kg one.  wish away, but it is never going to happen.

a better approach to governance would be to assume that economic growth will continue to slow to zero, and figure out how to manage that.  but the problem is that this IDEA runs afoul of orthodoxy, which is built on the unrealistic expectation of steady or increasing future growth that is logically absurd.

until we get leadership that recognizes that the orthodoxy is absurd, and puts us on a path toward a sustainable future, we are simply going to set ourselves up for the inevitable crisis that is coming- for this is the ONLY outcome possible other than growth that slows to zero.  President Trump is NOT that leadership.  he believes the orthodoxy.

but i am not an economist, so what the hell do i know, right?

Not an economist either, so I follow what economists have to say.  I keep hearing economists predict slower but steady growth. At least that is what we had with Obama at the helm.  Personally I'd be quite satisfied with slow steady growth. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Dec 28, 2016 23:35:17 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

Dec 28, 2016 12:10:47 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

lol...GEL isn't enjoying any of it. GEL thinks we are royally...youknowwhated. GEL thinks we would have been royally youknowwhated regardless of the outcome! But...still hoping for the best.  I'm an eternal optimist even when it makes no sense to be one!

Hope you had a wonderful Christmas, Rachets, and Happy New Year to you and yours. 

We are royally screwed. I don't think it will be from a nuclear war with another nation - if any nukes are going off it will be a terrorist act. We are financially though and we will go bankrupt before we fix it, that's my belief. Basically our debt is ok when we are chugging along with a good economy and we have economic growth - but that should be the times when we are paying the debt down and we're not. So one of these depressions or recessions will eventually be bad enough to put us over the edge.  I don't think it will happen in our lifetimes, but it will eventually happen.  Like in the next 100 years for sure.

This isn't the correct or healthy way to think - the way you think is - but some of that comes from PTSD too.  When I hear things like "I'm worried Trump is gonna deport my gay son!" or celebrities running off to Canada as if anybody cares where Bruce Willis or whoever lives anyway.  It's all self-inflicted anguish.  I do find that sort of thing humorous, because people are just hurting themselves and they want pity for it.  I've been around to a lot of places, and there are some real bad issues in the world. Like people who are living on a constant diet of 800 calories a day, hostile regimes, etc.  So the histrionics about peoples lives falling apart over a President is laughable...it's ludicrous.  My life was affected by Obama in what I considered negatively at the time by having to retire two years earlier than expected, and guess what it didn't fall to pieces and nobody has been on the street panhandling or sleeping in alleys.  To be honest it actually worked out to my benefit - which I wish I knew at the time - because I'm doing something I find much more enjoyable now and have been a lot more successful at it than I even dreamed. 

That got long winded, but that's my message to all the high-drama folks out there that everything is gonna be OK.  Trump isn't going to kick your dog or deport your gay son or take your pot away.  Whenever folks want to stop whining and moaning about how screwed they are and get some perspective on people who really are screwed I'll be here and would love to have a conversation about it.  Until then they can continue to whine and I'll continue to laugh at them.  That's kind of a general statement meant for the population at large.  I feel safe in saying that it isn't going to happen. 

Edit!  Forgot the most important part - Merry XMas to you too!  We've got a lot of family in town, mother-in-law, my parents, and daughter back from college...kinda crazy but it's good.  Hope your holiday is awesome  !

Thank you, Rachets.  It's was a great Christmas and I'm looking forward to a wonderful new year.  I am so blessed.  And thank you for your message.  My dad's mantra was always "There is someone out there who has it worse." no matter what the issue was.  Sometimes, I just wanted to smack him!  But always...I knew it was the truth.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 29, 2016 8:40:26 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Dec 29, 2016 0:00:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the real problem is that economic growth in the US has been slowing for half a century.  everyone sees this problem, and nobody knows how to fix it, so when someone comes along that says they CAN fix it, it is not hard to appreciate why people get excited by that.  but i think it is a fools errand.

here is WHY i believe this.

if you watch what happens in the business world, you will find that the larger a company gets, the harder it is to grow rapidly.  there are a host of reasons for this that would require a lot more discussion than i have time for. 

i believe that economies behave similarly.  the larger your economy, the harder it is to grow it rapidly.  so all of this wishing for higher growth is just that: wishing.  it is not going to happen.  it is like wishing you would grow younger, or that time would run backwards, or to use a better analogy, that you can push a 1000 kg boulder around with the same effort it takes to move a 100 kg one.  wish away, but it is never going to happen.

a better approach to governance would be to assume that economic growth will continue to slow to zero, and figure out how to manage that.  but the problem is that this IDEA runs afoul of orthodoxy, which is built on the unrealistic expectation of steady or increasing future growth that is logically absurd.

until we get leadership that recognizes that the orthodoxy is absurd, and puts us on a path toward a sustainable future, we are simply going to set ourselves up for the inevitable crisis that is coming- for this is the ONLY outcome possible other than growth that slows to zero.  President Trump is NOT that leadership.  he believes the orthodoxy.

but i am not an economist, so what the hell do i know, right?

Not an economist either, so I follow what economists have to say.  I keep hearing economists predict slower but steady growth. At least that is what we had with Obama at the helm.  Personally I'd be quite satisfied with slow steady growth. 

you might.  most Americans might.  but the corporate chieftains will never accept it.  they want more growth.  it is in their DNA.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 29, 2016 7:34:27 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Dec 29, 2016 0:00:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the real problem is that economic growth in the US has been slowing for half a century.  everyone sees this problem, and nobody knows how to fix it, so when someone comes along that says they CAN fix it, it is not hard to appreciate why people get excited by that.  but i think it is a fools errand.

here is WHY i believe this.

if you watch what happens in the business world, you will find that the larger a company gets, the harder it is to grow rapidly.  there are a host of reasons for this that would require a lot more discussion than i have time for. 

i believe that economies behave similarly.  the larger your economy, the harder it is to grow it rapidly.  so all of this wishing for higher growth is just that: wishing.  it is not going to happen.  it is like wishing you would grow younger, or that time would run backwards, or to use a better analogy, that you can push a 1000 kg boulder around with the same effort it takes to move a 100 kg one.  wish away, but it is never going to happen.

a better approach to governance would be to assume that economic growth will continue to slow to zero, and figure out how to manage that.  but the problem is that this IDEA runs afoul of orthodoxy, which is built on the unrealistic expectation of steady or increasing future growth that is logically absurd.

until we get leadership that recognizes that the orthodoxy is absurd, and puts us on a path toward a sustainable future, we are simply going to set ourselves up for the inevitable crisis that is coming- for this is the ONLY outcome possible other than growth that slows to zero.  President Trump is NOT that leadership.  he believes the orthodoxy.

but i am not an economist, so what the hell do i know, right?

Post of the month right there. 

Very well said.  Furthermore, there is nothing inherently wrong with slow growth, zero growth, or even negative growth, depending on the other parameters.  Things like Average and mean income levels, Life expectancy, and general health index (if there be such a thing) are all very important indicators of actual human progress within a national economy.  GDP and it's growth index are simply a pair of disjointed items.  But as you say, we don't think that way, because for hundreds of years, nay thousands, we have been in a world of limits on progress, but no limits on exploitation and growth.  These barriers are now inversing, more or less, throughout much of the world, and certainly here. 

This will be, if civilization continues without interruption or destruction, a central economic truth going into the next era.  It has to be, as we don't even have the resources to continue on the path humanity has for the last couple of millennia.   One way or another we must change, because eventually we will effectively run out of oil, and meanwhile we will pollute ourselves into serious trouble.

The West, and specifically us, are ideally suited to lead in this sea change, as we are the richest, and also the most unsustainable.  Because of our riches, we can make the transition in a comfortable manner.  Because of our material and cultural appeal, this can have positive collateral impact on BRIC and the developing world.  Because of the economic necessity of change (and you are starting to see that with water in the West) we will have the motivation for change.  Done right, the world will follow. 

Sigh.  I think of Isaac Asimov when subject matter like this arises.  Will we have the wisdom and fortitude to do so?  Will the economic sensibility be enough?

although he uses loaded language to express it, i think this view is essentially correct:

[steff]

I think having 1 of Virgil's "thread titles" being "POTUS To be shot" is taking his little joke too far.   Time to shut this kind of Virgil indulgence down.  

[dondub]

Furthermore, with all the merger mania that has been allowed and the monopolistic practices our govt. minders ignore, there is little chance that these big businesses that have been created will do much more than find more 'efficiencies' by laying off workers and slave dogging those that remain.

It's time to break up the big banks and other conglomerated businesses, and to have Google, Microsoft, and Facebook (for starters) sold off into a variety of different parcels.

[Green Eyed Lady]

POTUS Paved Over My State!  LOL. 

[djAdvocate]

Dec 29, 2016 22:51:18 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

Dec 29, 2016 7:34:27 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Post of the month right there. 

Very well said.  Furthermore, there is nothing inherently wrong with slow growth, zero growth, or even negative growth, depending on the other parameters.  Things like Average and mean income levels, Life expectancy, and general health index (if there be such a thing) are all very important indicators of actual human progress within a national economy.  GDP and it's growth index are simply a pair of disjointed items.  But as you say, we don't think that way, because for hundreds of years, nay thousands, we have been in a world of limits on progress, but no limits on exploitation and growth.  These barriers are now inversing, more or less, throughout much of the world, and certainly here. 

This will be, if civilization continues without interruption or destruction, a central economic truth going into the next era.  It has to be, as we don't even have the resources to continue on the path humanity has for the last couple of millennia.   One way or another we must change, because eventually we will effectively run out of oil, and meanwhile we will pollute ourselves into serious trouble.

The West, and specifically us, are ideally suited to lead in this sea change, as we are the richest, and also the most unsustainable.  Because of our riches, we can make the transition in a comfortable manner.  Because of our material and cultural appeal, this can have positive collateral impact on BRIC and the developing world.  Because of the economic necessity of change (and you are starting to see that with water in the West) we will have the motivation for change.  Done right, the world will follow. 

Sigh.  I think of Isaac Asimov when subject matter like this arises.  Will we have the wisdom and fortitude to do so?  Will the economic sensibility be enough?

Except our deficit not bankrupting us depends on economic growth.  And our retirement accounts on a personal level.

Regarding your quoted comment, size of the economy has nothing to do with growth slowing.  China's growth is rate is higher than ours because they are in the midst of their industrial revolution and we have already had ours.  Their growth rate did not slow as they overtook us in GDP.  Size has nothing to do with it.

first of all, China did not overtake us in GDP.  they overtook us in PPP.

secondly, GDP is not a relevant measure when your population is 7x larger.  PER CAPITA GDP is.  when China gets to where we are (which will only happen if we crash, imo) their economic growth will be similar to ours.  it is just how things work IN MY OPINION.  if that doesn't jibe with anyone else's, i honestly don't give a shit.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Now he's jilted Justin Bieber.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Dec 30, 2016 9:25:05 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Dec 30, 2016 9:17:45 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Now he's jilted Justin Bieber.

Mebbe I should have voted for him after all......

Well...it might have been one positive at least!

[Green Eyed Lady]

Dear God, no.

[Value Buy]

Bump.
This thread seems to be dying which might make some people very happy so it deserves to move up on the chain!

[Green Eyed Lady]

My title is staying the same now.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 4, 2017 11:47:02 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

My title is staying the same now.

I pulled the script during board clean-up. It was fun while it lasted.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Yes, it was. A good laugh is good for the soul.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2017 11:58:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 4, 2017 11:47:02 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

My title is staying the same now.

I pulled the script during board clean-up. It was fun while it lasted.

Original ideas, there is no substitute.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 27, 2016 11:41:14 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 26, 2016 18:21:53 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I should point out that if I wanted to bully non-Trump supporters, I'd probably call them "Hillettes" and "Hileteers", congratulate them for Ms. Clinton's being endorsed by the KKK, broadly refer to them as racists, misogynists, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, cowards, etc., wonder out loud how long it will before one of them shoots a Trump supporter, insist they can't handle the truth, and devote two thirds of my post record to opining about how horrible Ms. Clinton is, how stupid her supporters were for getting her elected, and how screwed America is now that she's president.

You know. Putting in a real effort to make people feel like crap for voting the way they did.

It's a good thing we don't have anybody like that on the board. And an especially good thing they're not deeply confused about what bullying is.

Every last example in my list comes straight out of GG's comment record in the past few months.

If a single satirical thread makes me a "bully", what does that make her? A superbully?

[djAdvocate]

whatev's.  if it makes you feel better, i didn't say who was making the hyperbole.  and honestly, i didn't care to look into it.

this sort of thing has me completely worn out, at this point.

but my stocks are up 4% in the last two days, so at least i have that to keep me going. 

[dondub]

On paper.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 4, 2017 14:42:20 GMT -5 dondub said:

On paper.

and on paper, the country is fucked.

take your pick. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

All I know is someone should tell the Captain that Speedos are so out.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Stunning win: theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/01/03/stunning-win-ford-cancels-1-6-billion-mexico-plant-and-will-expand-in-michigan/

Ford CANCELS $6 billion plant in Mexico- directly and specifically credits Trump's promised pro-growth policies in words so uncertain not even F. Chuck Todd could misinterpret them.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 4, 2017 23:13:24 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Stunning win: theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/01/03/stunning-win-ford-cancels-1-6-billion-mexico-plant-and-will-expand-in-michigan/

Ford CANCELS $6 billion plant in Mexico- directly and specifically credits Trump's promised pro-growth policies in words so uncertain not even F. Chuck Todd could misinterpret them.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2017 13:22:44 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 27, 2016 11:41:14 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Every last example in my list comes straight out of GG's comment record in the past few months.

If a single satirical thread makes me a "bully", what does that make her? A superbully?

Nah. GG is like a cute puppy nipping at your heels while never seeing the cattle prod in my hand, held far above her head.

[dondub]

Fantasizing?