How does Finland do it? By doing everything we DON'T

[djAdvocate]

The Harvard education professor Howard Gardner once advised Americans, "Learn from Finland, which has the most effective schools and which does just about the opposite of what we are doing in the United States."

Read more: www.smh.com.au/national/this-is-why-finland-has-the-best-schools-20160324-gnqv9l.html#ixzz45anHd5iC
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

we would do this, but we think we are perfect, and can't learn a damned thing from "Euro Sissies".

so, we will probably go on doing everything wrong until we have the dumbest HS graduates in the Western World.

embarrassing.  and, unfortunately, probably a recipe for continued declining standards of living, as well.

hard to think about the future when we are so obsessed with ourselves and the present that we can't even imagine it.

mods: if you have a better location for this, be my guest.  you could put it just about anywhere.  this topic crosses all boundaries, imo.

[NoNamePerson]

Interesting article.

On a side note: When my son was in the 4th or 5th grade a study came out that his generation was the first that would NOT be better educated that the past generation. I think that study said a lot even back in 74/75. I hate to say it but I think the study was probably spot on.

And no I'm not against change but only if the change TEACHES kids. Some changes made in that era boggled my mind because the "think" process was taken out of the equation.  

The education system in this country has been made a political one and we all know the success rate of all things political.

[Tennesseer]

I believe I would have enjoyed school back in the 50s and 60s if my schooling had been what is described in the article.

[Virgil Showlion]

Apr 12, 2016 2:00:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

The Harvard education professor Howard Gardner once advised Americans, "Learn from Finland, which has the most effective schools and which does just about the opposite of what we are doing in the United States."

Read more: www.smh.com.au/national/this-is-why-finland-has-the-best-schools-20160324-gnqv9l.html#ixzz45anHd5iC
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

we would do this, but we think we are perfect, and can't learn a damned thing from "Euro Sissies".

so, we will probably go on doing everything wrong until we have the dumbest HS graduates in the Western World.

embarrassing.  and, unfortunately, probably a recipe for continued declining standards of living, as well.

hard to think about the future when we are so obsessed with ourselves and the present that we can't even imagine it.

mods: if you have a better location for this, be my guest.  you could put it just about anywhere.  this topic crosses all boundaries, imo.

At least you have a greater number of students escaping to private schooling year after year.

[billisonboard]

Apr 12, 2016 7:15:19 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

... The education system in this country has been made a political one and we all know the success rate of all things political.

Public education has always been political. It is just a question of who's interests are being served by it.

[Deleted]

And homeschooling continues to grow.

[Deleted]

One of the ways America could work is to have the fifty state choose what they think is best for their state. Instead we have Washington decide what it thinks is best and push it onto everyone.

None of the states can veer off and be great. We hobble all to the same standards.

[NoNamePerson]

Apr 12, 2016 9:08:44 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 12, 2016 7:15:19 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

... The education system in this country has been made a political one and we all know the success rate of all things political.

Public education has always been political. It is just a question of who's interests are being served by it.

You said that better than I did!! But it's sorta what I meant. And it gets worse the more political it becomes.

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2016 10:07:37 GMT -5 @hickle said:

One of the ways America could work is to have the fifty state choose what they think is best for their state. Instead we have Washington decide what it thinks is best and push it onto everyone.

None of the states can veer off and be great. We hobble all to the same standards.

Not true really at all. Only recently has there been any attempt at federal standards. And those of you actually read them are not all that. And PA for instance already had their own standards before common core and reviewed common core to make sure IT lived up to PA standards...

much as as people like to blame common core. And if local and state worked, why didn't it work before this? It's not like there was a period of great prosperity in schools and the fed ended it...

i

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Apr 12, 2016 2:00:57 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

The Harvard education professor Howard Gardner once advised Americans, "Learn from Finland, which has the most effective schools and which does just about the opposite of what we are doing in the United States."

Read more: www.smh.com.au/national/this-is-why-finland-has-the-best-schools-20160324-gnqv9l.html#ixzz45anHd5iC
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

we would do this, but we think we are perfect, and can't learn a damned thing from "Euro Sissies".

so, we will probably go on doing everything wrong until we have the dumbest HS graduates in the Western World.

embarrassing.  and, unfortunately, probably a recipe for continued declining standards of living, as well.

hard to think about the future when we are so obsessed with ourselves and the present that we can't even imagine it.

mods: if you have a better location for this, be my guest.  you could put it just about anywhere.  this topic crosses all boundaries, imo.

I wonder how they are allowed to handle disruptive kids, where here it seems educators are allowed to do less and less to stop it.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 12, 2016 10:36:23 GMT -5 oped said:

Apr 12, 2016 10:07:37 GMT -5 @hickle said:

One of the ways America could work is to have the fifty state choose what they think is best for their state. Instead we have Washington decide what it thinks is best and push it onto everyone.

None of the states can veer off and be great. We hobble all to the same standards.

Not true really at all. Only recently has there been any attempt at federal standards. And those of you actually read them are not all that. And PA for instance already had their own standards before common core and reviewed common core to make sure IT lived up to PA standards...

much as as people like to blame common core. And if local and state worked, why didn't it work before this? It's not like there was a period of great prosperity in schools and the fed ended it...

i

totally true.  and it was not "liberals" that came up with standardized testing as a way of doing things.

but correcting the record slightly, i think the US did a really good job of educating up until....i don't know when, actually.  i just remember reading that the US lead the world in education in the mid-20th century.

[Deleted]

So, up until about the time we decided that everyone was entitled to an education? That seems about right.

I'm just saying, as I've said before, Why Jonney can't read was written in the 1950s. Holt wrote in 60s. This is not a few years issue. It's been debated since the conception of public education.

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2016 10:36:23 GMT -5 oped said:

Apr 12, 2016 10:07:37 GMT -5 @hickle said:

One of the ways America could work is to have the fifty state choose what they think is best for their state. Instead we have Washington decide what it thinks is best and push it onto everyone.

None of the states can veer off and be great. We hobble all to the same standards.

Not true really at all. Only recently has there been any attempt at federal standards. And those of you actually read them are not all that. And PA for instance already had their own standards before common core and reviewed common core to make sure IT lived up to PA standards...

much as as people like to blame common core. And if local and state worked, why didn't it work before this? It's not like there was a period of great prosperity in schools and the fed ended it...

i

What did the Dept of education do for the last 35 years?

[billisonboard]

Apr 12, 2016 7:15:19 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

...
On a side note: When my son was in the 4th or 5th grade a study came out that his generation was the first that would NOT be better educated that the past generation. I think that study said a lot even back in 74/75. I hate to say it but I think the study was probably spot on.
...

There is really no data that can be used to accurately support that claim.

[NoNamePerson]

Apr 12, 2016 12:15:08 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 12, 2016 7:15:19 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

...
On a side note: When my son was in the 4th or 5th grade a study came out that his generation was the first that would NOT be better educated that the past generation. I think that study said a lot even back in 74/75. I hate to say it but I think the study was probably spot on.
...

There is really no data that can be used to accurately support that claim.

Well, it was in the 70's and I just remember the report being blasted all over the news. I didn't have the study in hand to read it myself. And who in this day and age much less back then believe anything any yahoo claims "according to a study" I would study cow dung if they gave me enough grant money  And then probably sway the report to the first cow dung buddy who crossed my palm with "green"

I'm way to jaded for my own good.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 12, 2016 11:58:46 GMT -5 oped said:

So, up until about the time we decided that everyone was entitled to an education? That seems about right.

I'm just saying, as I've said before, Why Jonney can't read was written in the 1950s. Holt wrote in 60s. This is not a few years issue. It's been debated since the conception of public education.

i don't honestly know, but Finland seems to think that everyone is entitled to an education, and they seem to be doing pretty well with the concept.

what's our fucking problem?

[Deleted]

Dept of Ed collects data, enforces civil right and privacy law, establishes grant programs... The only standards ever offered were NCLB and Common Core... Neither of which are curricular and which offer ample flexibility in adoption and efforts to achieve. And as noted by me PA example are not even as rigorous as some states, just basic bottom guidelines. States and localities decide how to implement instruction.

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2016 12:32:19 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 12, 2016 11:58:46 GMT -5 oped said:

So, up until about the time we decided that everyone was entitled to an education? That seems about right.

I'm just saying, as I've said before, Why Jonney can't read was written in the 1950s. Holt wrote in 60s. This is not a few years issue. It's been debated since the conception of public education.

i don't honestly know, but Finland seems to think that everyone is entitled to an education, and they seem to be doing pretty well with the concept.

what's our fucking problem?

What I'm saying is that you really can't compare general scores and outcomes pre and post EHA/IDEA. 

Ie saying we were doing fine educating kids till 1950s or whatever ( and there is evidence this isn't exactly true) ... But it's meaningless when special needs populations were not really  considered in the data until 1970s/90s... 

[djAdvocate]

Apr 12, 2016 12:35:55 GMT -5 oped said:

Apr 12, 2016 12:32:19 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i don't honestly know, but Finland seems to think that everyone is entitled to an education, and they seem to be doing pretty well with the concept.

what's our fucking problem?

What I'm saying is that you really can't compare general scores and outcomes pre and post EHA/IDEA. 

Ie saying we were doing fine educating kids till 1950s or whatever ( and there is evidence this isn't exactly true) ... But it's meaningless when special needs populations were not really  considered in the data until 1970s/90s... 

oh.....i get it.  ok.  yeah.  i took you wrong, oped.  sorry about that.

[mmhmm]

There's actually quite a bit of information on the Finnish school system available. I'll drop some links below but what's there is only the tip of the iceberg.


link


link


link

[NoNamePerson]

Wonder where we are now on the list of best educated countries. Won't google since it is probably an old list out there and then I would have to research who made up the list - US which would show us as in top 5 most likely.  

[weltschmerz]

Apr 12, 2016 13:40:44 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Wonder where we are now on the list of best educated countries. Won't google since it is probably an old list out there and then I would have to research who made up the list - US which would show us as in top 5 most likely.  

ROTFLMAO!! Not even close.Try again.

One of the biggest cross-national tests is the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), which every three years measures reading ability, math and science literacy and other key skills among 15-year-olds in dozens of developed and developing countries. The most recent PISA results, from 2012, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 35th out of 64 countries in math and 27th in science. Among the 34 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 27th in math and 20th in science.

www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/02/u-s-students-improving-slowly-in-math-and-science-but-still-lagging-internationally/.

[NoNamePerson]

Apr 12, 2016 14:00:18 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Apr 12, 2016 13:40:44 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Wonder where we are now on the list of best educated countries. Won't google since it is probably an old list out there and then I would have to research who made up the list - US which would show us as in top 5 most likely.  

ROTFLMAO!! Not even close.Try again.

One of the biggest cross-national tests is the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), which every three years measures reading ability, math and science literacy and other key skills among 15-year-olds in dozens of developed and developing countries. The most recent PISA results, from 2012, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 35th out of 64 countries in math and 27th in science. Among the 34 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 27th in math and 20th in science.

www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/02/u-s-students-improving-slowly-in-math-and-science-but-still-lagging-internationally/.

Apparently that study wasn't done by the US  We would be in the top five   We tend to slant all studies to make us look good.  Glad someone else is putting out the info.

[NoNamePerson]

Apr 12, 2016 14:13:07 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Apr 12, 2016 14:00:18 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

ROTFLMAO!! Not even close.Try again.

One of the biggest cross-national tests is the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), which every three years measures reading ability, math and science literacy and other key skills among 15-year-olds in dozens of developed and developing countries. The most recent PISA results, from 2012, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 35th out of 64 countries in math and 27th in science. Among the 34 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 27th in math and 20th in science.

www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/02/u-s-students-improving-slowly-in-math-and-science-but-still-lagging-internationally/.

Heeeeeeeaaaay.......   We're #1, y'unnerstand?  Number One!  USA, USA, USA!

Whatareya, somekinda smartaleck commie?  Weltschmertz.... what kinda name is that anyway?*

You know what me and the Donald think dontcha?  You can go right back to Kanada if you don't like it here! 

Y'know there are thousands of starving Kanadians that would beg to get into this country, cause..... We're #1!

And we don't need no stinkin' education, anyways.

*Sarcasm.........

Pink Floyd said that  

[kittensaver]

To veer slightly off topic: Finland does a hell of a lot better job than us at mental health treatment too - -

willhall.net/opendialogue/

Now back to education . . . .

[Deleted]

So much of these fields are interrelated though... It's really an approach to human beings that is different.

[kittensaver]

Apr 12, 2016 14:52:06 GMT -5 oped said:

So much of these fields are interrelated though... It's really an approach to human beings that is different.

EXACTLY. Thanks for saying this .

[wyouser]

Cudos DJ!! good article. "Our mission is to protect children from politicians" A noble concept.

[billisonboard]

Apr 12, 2016 14:59:43 GMT -5 wyouser said:

Cudos DJ!! good article. "Our mission is to protect children from politicians" A noble concept.

"Our mission as adults is to protect our children from politicians," one Finnish childhood education professor told me. "We also have an ethical and moral responsibility to tell businesspeople to stay out of our building."

Read more: www.smh.com.au/national/this-is-why-finland-has-the-best-schools-20160324-gnqv9l.html#ixzz45e1YQ07A
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

I like the "also" as well.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

While I appreciate the article, this isn't new news. Finnish Lessons by Pasi Sahlberg was published in 2011.

There are significant differences in how teachers are treated inFinland compared to the USA.

The political ramifications and undfinded mandates set forth by the federal and state governments have hindered educators the last 25-35 years since a report called A Nation at Risk was published.

(I'm on my phone during my prep. I needed a five minute breather. I'll be back later this evening. )