Lizard Queen
Senior Associate
103/2024
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
Posts: 14,659
|
Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 16, 2019 19:51:28 GMT -5
The other thing I noticed in this is that the male applicants generally felt quite confident applying for a promotion from their former position (internal and external applicants) whereas female applicants seemed more comfortable with a lateral move. And then the males get bonus points for taking that initiative. To be clear, I had known and seen some of this previous, but with this rather intense recruiting effort over the past month, it really came into focus. So - I do want to encourage all our job seekers who have been in a particular role for about 3 years to very confidently apply to jobs that are a little of a reach, add in a few stretch positions that you can make a good case for your interest and ability to get up to speed quickly, interview with confidence, clearly state what challenges you expect, what you need to learn and how excited you are to take on those new tasks and in the interviews showcase your experience and confidence in being successful in the role. this has actually been studied past anecdotal stories. men will (generally) apply for most jobs they think they could do, where women (generally) won't apply unless they tick off every requirement in the posting. I'm guilty of that, and I'm sure most of the female posters I was commiserating with as I searched could say the same. this is another symptom of the Impostor Syndrome that DQ talked about, that I absolutely know I am poster child for. From my small household example, it appears that employers are more willing to accept men who don't check off all the boxes but can do the work, while expect women to check off all the boxes. This is exactly what I've been running into, and my DH would concur. He's also tall and good-looking, so there's that.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,575
|
Post by chiver78 on Feb 16, 2019 19:58:06 GMT -5
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 18, 2019 18:15:42 GMT -5
oh, they did call and give me a formal offer. I start in 2 weeks. So I have a job now and I'm happy about that... so why is this so anticlimactic?
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 18, 2019 18:23:19 GMT -5
oh, they did call and give me a formal offer. I start in 2 weeks. So I have a job now and I'm happy about that... so why is this so anticlimactic? Congratulations. Very happy for you.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 18, 2019 18:30:43 GMT -5
Thank you I think it must be because this is a step down salary and position-wise. But I learned from it and will get back up. I just have to keep looking forward.
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,214
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Feb 18, 2019 18:33:40 GMT -5
Thank you I think it must be because this is a step down salary and position-wise. But I learned from it and will get back up. I just have to keep looking forward.
Congrats, MJ. Do keep looking. You need the job to pay your bills, right?
|
|
finnime
Junior Associate
Be kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 7:14:35 GMT -5
Posts: 7,445
|
Post by finnime on Feb 18, 2019 18:35:05 GMT -5
MJ, does this job offer you more time for your life? I mean the other life, outside of work. And is the commute not godawful? Because those are big things.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 18, 2019 18:38:57 GMT -5
I do. I've hopped enough for a while though, so I'm determined to stay here for at least 3 years. Changes in my living arrangements and child care should save me some money in 4-5 months, but for now it'll be tight. I'm thinking of a part-time job on Sundays to help with the shortfall.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 18, 2019 18:40:47 GMT -5
MJ, does this job offer you more time for your life? I mean the other life, outside of work. And is the commute not godawful? Because those are big things. no crazy hours. The commute will not be great, but I'm looking into eventually moving a little closer to one of the main highways needed to get there.
|
|
geenamercile
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:40:28 GMT -5
Posts: 2,488
|
Post by geenamercile on Feb 18, 2019 18:46:41 GMT -5
Congrats MJ. You will rock this.
|
|
Rukh O'Rorke
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
Posts: 10,055
|
Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 18, 2019 20:57:54 GMT -5
MJ, does this job offer you more time for your life? I mean the other life, outside of work. And is the commute not godawful? Because those are big things. no crazy hours. The commute will not be great, but I'm looking into eventually moving a little closer to one of the main highways needed to get there. Yay! Congrats!! I hope this goes well for you!!! Good luck!!
|
|
ners
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 16:21:18 GMT -5
Posts: 6,492
|
Post by ners on Feb 18, 2019 21:05:53 GMT -5
|
|
Lizard Queen
Senior Associate
103/2024
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
Posts: 14,659
|
Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 18, 2019 21:17:15 GMT -5
Congrats, MJ!
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 18, 2019 21:22:52 GMT -5
thanks everyone. I'm ready to get back to work and interact with other humans again.
|
|
CCL
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 19:34:47 GMT -5
Posts: 7,601
|
Post by CCL on Feb 18, 2019 21:53:47 GMT -5
Congratulations!
|
|
steph08
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 13:06:01 GMT -5
Posts: 5,453
Member is Online
|
Post by steph08 on Feb 18, 2019 21:55:15 GMT -5
*poof*
|
|
finnime
Junior Associate
Be kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 7:14:35 GMT -5
Posts: 7,445
|
Post by finnime on Feb 19, 2019 3:29:34 GMT -5
|
|
gs11rmb
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 12:43:39 GMT -5
Posts: 3,305
|
Post by gs11rmb on Feb 19, 2019 7:39:26 GMT -5
steph08 sounds like a good move overall. The current micromanager will not improve so there's no point just trying to wait her out.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,575
|
Post by chiver78 on Feb 19, 2019 7:48:57 GMT -5
congrats MJ! and good luck, steph.
|
|
Anne_in_VA
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:09:35 GMT -5
Posts: 5,509
|
Post by Anne_in_VA on Feb 19, 2019 7:56:35 GMT -5
Congratulations MJ and good luck steph.
|
|
steph08
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 13:06:01 GMT -5
Posts: 5,453
Member is Online
|
Post by steph08 on Feb 19, 2019 7:56:57 GMT -5
steph08 sounds like a good move overall. The current micromanager will not improve so there's no point just trying to wait her out. This was my initial plan - it seems she moves jobs every two years, so I planned to wait her out. But this morning, another org change where two of my Company A Product team members were let go and replaced by someone from Company B. It's time to move on.
|
|
alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,118
|
Post by alabamagal on Feb 19, 2019 7:58:27 GMT -5
Steph - definitely negotiate to make it worth your while. Things like lower city taxes are basically just money in your pocket. Also look closely at benefits and put a $ figure on them, especially if they are ones you use frequently - things like low deductibles for medical are big when you have kids. And vacation time is a good benefit that can give you flexibility when you have kids. I used to think that I had more vacation than I needed because it was more time than we could afford to go on an actual vacation, but I could use it for extra days off around holidays to spend with kids. Also do they have a target bonus amount? I think that is what most big companies do now. I would think e-commerce would be good field to get experience in.
Good luck.
|
|
steph08
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 3, 2011 13:06:01 GMT -5
Posts: 5,453
Member is Online
|
Post by steph08 on Feb 19, 2019 8:04:46 GMT -5
Steph - definitely negotiate to make it worth your while. Things like lower city taxes are basically just money in your pocket. Also look closely at benefits and put a $ figure on them, especially if they are ones you use frequently - things like low deductibles for medical are big when you have kids. And vacation time is a good benefit that can give you flexibility when you have kids. I used to think that I had more vacation than I needed because it was more time than we could afford to go on an actual vacation, but I could use it for extra days off around holidays to spend with kids. Also do they have a target bonus amount? I think that is what most big companies do now. I would think e-commerce would be good field to get experience in. Good luck. Thanks! I did this last night. The medical/dental/vision has better coverage (it's just me - DH has the kids on his insurance) and it will cost me $1k less a year than at current company. City taxes are almost $1k too. The HR rep I talked to didn't come out and say they have a targeted bonus amount - just that it's discretionary, but she implied that it would make up part of the $5k less salary. I'm going to get clarification on the holidays (which days are holidays) and vacation (can I use it in hourly increments? - I take a fair amount of afternoons off because my oldest has school in the morning) and ask for a $2k bump - that is meeting in the middle on my salary request.
|
|
flamingo
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 17, 2012 10:38:09 GMT -5
Posts: 1,910
Mini-Profile Name Color: 7c65d4
|
Post by flamingo on Feb 19, 2019 8:29:59 GMT -5
Congrats MJ2.0! I hope this job works out for you! Good luck with the decision/move steph08. It sounds like the positives outweigh the negatives with the new job. I hope it works out for you!
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 19, 2019 9:01:56 GMT -5
Woohoo MJ!
Good luck Steph.
|
|
chapeau
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 10:50:04 GMT -5
Posts: 1,649
|
Post by chapeau on Feb 19, 2019 10:13:00 GMT -5
Woo hoo MJ!
Steph, 3.5 years ago I took a much bigger pay cut in gross salary* to get out of a frankly crazy company. But I also got much more flexibility. The trade off was one I would probably make again, I think. The salary loss is starting to hurt now, because the raises are tiny and there is nowhere to advance at this job. What I’m saying is have your plan in mind and know what the ship jumping possibilities are if the salary doesn’t increase the way you were hoping/expecting. Of course, micranagers are the worst, so I’d be running too. And e-commerce experience should be great on your resume, so that should really improve your ship jumping possibilities.
* my take home only went down $25 a pay or so, but I had been socking away 25% for retirement and had to cut down to a much smaller statutorily set amount to make the money work.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Feb 19, 2019 11:11:02 GMT -5
oh, they did call and give me a formal offer. I start in 2 weeks. So I have a job now and I'm happy about that... so why is this so anticlimactic? Great news! I'm really happy for you, MJ! Now, you can start to rebuild and move forward.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Feb 19, 2019 11:38:09 GMT -5
Congratulations MJ2.0 . You've got this. You'll make it work. You have a team you're excited about working with, and, in my experience, that has been the biggest driver in success- wanting to work with the people I am working with. Hopefully, this will set you up to launch even higher.
steph08 - It can be hard to take a step back and give up some perks you really like. But I think you're making the right decision. Working for a toxic person or in an organization that no longer appears to appreciate your work never improves your work life, and often sets you back. It is really hard to leave coworkers you like, but you know very well most of them are looking to leave to. So make sure they have your contact info (at least connected on LinkedIn), and let them know that you'd be more than happy to be a reference for them, as they search.
My biggest issue with references are companies that are hypocritical about them. I worked for an organization that sent out the really comprehensive online survey for the purposes of references. It could take you reference up to an hour to complete it. You wouldn't get an offer if at least 3 people didn't complete the thing. And yet, they advised their own managers not to give references. If you were an internal candidate and needed one of your current managers to fill out one of those forms, you had to ask really nicely, because even in the case of internal candidates, managers were not supposed to give references while on company time. References had to be done on the manager's own time, so that the company could claim it was a personal professional reference, not a reference from the company itself. The worst was when they did a few massive rounds of layoffs. The company then told all managers that they were not allowed to give references. I was laid off in round 2 (of 3), after working there for 8 years. I did not really have any relevant professional references that were not from that organization. And my next job required hearing from a certain number of references before offering me the role. They wanted at least 2 direct supervisors. Well, my most recent direct supervisor had been laid off in round 1, so we were good there, but my direct supervisor for the 6 years prior was still working for the organization. I got very lucky in two ways. One, my new organization was understanding about what was happening and since they had gotten a reference from my most recent direct supervisor, they were willing to let me do a substitution reference for the other. Two, one of the other executive directors (a peer of my two most recent supervisors) was laid off in round 3. While I had never worked for her, she was very familiar with my work, as I had collaborated with her analyst, and she had worked closely with my boss. I was able to reach out to her on LinkedIn an ask if she would serve as a reference. She did, from vacation in Hawaii.
I always do my best to be a reference for the staff the work for me. And sometimes that means talking on the phone for 20-30 minutes answering questions. Sometimes I get forms from the federal government to fill out for people who worked in our department, but didn't work directly for me. I am glad those forms often give me the option of saying I didn't know the person well enough to answer. I also sometimes get calls from call centers that specialize in reference checks. They mostly care about dates worked, titles, and pay. Unfortunately, our new system of record makes that very hard to suss out for people who aren't using that function on a regular basis and I do refer those call centers to the University's central employment verification line. I will often tell them - I can confirm that X worked in our department, but due to the way our new system is set up, I am not able to verify specific dates or pay rates.
When I do reference checks, I send email. I generally have 3 questions (one of them a rate on a scale of 1-10). I also provide my phone number if they want to call me. But this way, people are able to answer in the way that is most convenient for them, at a time that makes sense for them, and hopefully in a way that doesn't take more than 15 minutes.
And to answer another, unasked question, as a hiring manager, I absolutely have used reference check answers as a tie breaker between candidates. We had a situation last summer where we had two excellent candidates, and decided to check the references on both of them (we were in a time crunch), while we pondered. Both had excellent references, but one reference for one candidate mentioned something that had been our biggest concern about that candidate, kind of confirming our impression. (The person giving the reference thought it was a positive because it was a reflection of their own behavior/attitude.) And that was a major reason the other candidate got the job.
|
|
tcu2003
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 31, 2010 15:24:01 GMT -5
Posts: 4,942
|
Post by tcu2003 on Feb 19, 2019 13:41:24 GMT -5
Congrats, MJ!!
Good luck, Steph! I couldn’t work for a micromanager, so I’d likely be switching. But definitely try to negotiate some more!
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,214
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Feb 19, 2019 14:40:34 GMT -5
The last CPA office I worked for in Colorado is where I had the micromanager. She drove us crazy. We had several "stand up" meetings a day to go over work priorities. There were two of us admins for tax season. We knew the priorities and we could have gotten so much done instead of wasting time 4 or 5 times a day to meet with her.
Once I understood the job, we really didn't need a daily meeting, but 10 minutes a day would have been tolerable as opposed to wasting so much time.
At the end of tax season, I quit and they fired the other admin.
|
|