Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 20, 2016 16:26:23 GMT -5
Presented without comment.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 20, 2016 16:41:01 GMT -5
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 20, 2016 18:01:37 GMT -5
Won't that be embarrassing for them when the deal blows up in their faces. Hopefully not literally.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 20, 2016 19:11:14 GMT -5
Was Canada one of the 7 signatories of the deal?
Right now it's more likely that our great ally Saudi Arabia will have a nuke before Iran. (although I don't believe Iran will ever have one)
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jan 20, 2016 20:26:50 GMT -5
Just expressing themselves, eh VtL?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 20, 2016 22:33:04 GMT -5
Was Canada one of the 7 signatories of the deal?
Right now it's more likely that our great ally Saudi Arabia will have a nuke before Iran. (although I don't believe Iran will ever have one) For the low, low price of $100 billion, you'd better hope not. Of course, if this deal holds until 2025, it will go down in history as the first quid pro quo US-Middle-East deal that didn't blow up in Uncle Sam's face in less than a decade. We can always hope, right?
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 20, 2016 23:04:38 GMT -5
Price would indicate a cost of $100 billion versus just unfreezing Iran's sanction frozen capital.
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jan 20, 2016 23:10:43 GMT -5
Was Canada one of the 7 signatories of the deal?
Right now it's more likely that our great ally Saudi Arabia will have a nuke before Iran. (although I don't believe Iran will ever have one) For the low, low price of $100 billion, you'd better hope not. Of course, if this deal holds until 2025, it will go down in history as the first quid pro quo US-Middle-East deal that didn't blow up in Uncle Sam's face in less than a decade. We can always hope, right? It's gonna blow up alright. Lets arm the enemy of our enemies and see what happens.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Jan 20, 2016 23:14:17 GMT -5
They won their own money- nobody wrote a check- but why let facts ruin the handout meme.
I'll say this- Ramirez is a great cartoonist even when his positions are nutty- which is most of the time.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 21, 2016 1:46:15 GMT -5
It's sad to see the conservatives be so opposed to this diplomacy put together by so many of our allies and us. I guess the righties just want another war. One doink Repo pol, was it Cruz?, implied it would be a piece of cake to take them out. Get real. All their saber rattling is just that. They know they would be a parking lot in 20 minutes if they ever got too belligerent. In the meantime you should all settle down.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 21, 2016 4:53:11 GMT -5
It's sad to see the conservatives be so opposed to this diplomacy put together by so many of our allies and us. I guess the righties just want another war. One doink Repo pol, was it Cruz?, implied it would be a piece of cake to take them out. Get real. All their saber rattling is just that. They know they would be a parking lot in 20 minutes if they ever got too belligerent. In the meantime you should all settle down. The righties are realists, Don. Look at it this way. We've entered one of two situations: - the Iranian government is as reasonable as you suppose, in which case it hardly matters if they could build a nuclear bomb; they wouldn't use it. Hence we've granted a hostile nation access to $100 billion in capital for no reason.
- the Iranian government isn't as reasonable as you suppose, and would nuke west or Israel if they acquired the bomb. Hence we've granted a nation with the presumed willingness to start WWIII access to $100 billion in capital.
What can Ayatollah Khamenei do with a $100 billion slush fund? I guess we'll find out.
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jan 21, 2016 8:58:51 GMT -5
It's sad to see the conservatives be so opposed to this diplomacy put together by so many of our allies and us. I guess the righties just want another war. One doink Repo pol, was it Cruz?, implied it would be a piece of cake to take them out. Get real. All their saber rattling is just that. They know they would be a parking lot in 20 minutes if they ever got too belligerent. In the meantime you should all settle down. The righties are realists, Don. Look at it this way. We've entered one of two situations: - the Iranian government is as reasonable as you suppose, in which case it hardly matters if they could build a nuclear bomb; they wouldn't use it. Hence we've granted a hostile nation access to $100 billion in capital for no reason.
- the Iranian government isn't as reasonable as you suppose, and would nuke west or Israel if they acquired the bomb. Hence we've granted a nation with the presumed willingness to start WWIII access to $100 billion in capital.
What can Ayatollah Khamenei do with a $100 billion slush fund? I guess we'll find out. We know exactly what is going to happen with this money, VtL... all the info is out there.. Stay www.dailysabah.com/politics/2016/01/14/iranian-leader-threatens-neighbors-with-shiite-cells-1452713736
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 21, 2016 10:39:48 GMT -5
Rubio has pledged to revoke this he first day he is in office. He has also pledged war with Iran.
These guys are just cuckoo for cocoa puffs*. Certifiable.
We can't afford one in the White House, for either treasure or blood.
*from an American advertisement line. The Iranians hate you, and Israel. The Iranian people hate the US and Israel. The Iranian government hates the US and Israel. Those facts won't change in the next ten generations. Iran is your unrepentant enemy. You've just unshackled your unrepentant enemy. You're that clueless character in a bad movie that says, "Untie the bad guy so that he can lead us to his hideout. If he tries anything, I'll shoot him." We do agree on one thing, though: backing out of the deal now is a bad idea.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 21, 2016 12:18:11 GMT -5
What are they gonna do about it? I don't know. I do know that if I hated America and I had $100 billion at my disposal, I'd get my money's worth in American blood. You'd find your commercial airliners dropping out of the sky, your public celebrations awash with blood, your subways full of toxic gas, your national monuments subject to massive disease outbreaks, your embassies and military bases car-bombed, your vacationers and businessmen massacred while abroad, your vulnerable power grid sabotaged, your computers hacked, your allies wishing they weren't your allies, and your enemies feeling more empowered and ambitious than ever before. Are Iran or the groups they fund this brazen? Perhaps not, but I wouldn't bet on that. Sorry. Iran is not my enemy, and I have absolutely nothing against the Iranian people. Nothing. Let me put it this way: you are Iran's enemy. Whether or not you reciprocate the sentiment is irrelevant to that fact.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 21, 2016 13:08:01 GMT -5
International Organization[edit]
United Nations –Ban Ki-moon the Secretary-General of the United Nations welcomed this agreement.[23] "A comprehensive, negotiated solution to the Iranian nuclear issue will contribute to peace and stability in the region." he said.[24]
Yukiya Amano the direct General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), with the release a manifest welcomed the compromise."The IAEA welcomes the announcement by E3+3 [the 5+1 group] and Iran on the key parameters for a joint Comprehensive Plan of Action." Yukiaya Amano said in his manifest.[25]
Governments[edit]
Iran – Iran's President Hassan Rouhani welcomed the development on Twitter.[26] He said the nuclear agreement is just a step toward interaction with the world and all those countries that want to respect the Iranian nation.[27] One week after Lausanne negotiations, Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei, explained his idea about the negotiations. He neither accepted nor rejected the framework deal and stated that: "nothing has happened yet." About sanctions, he proclaimed all sanctions must be completely lifted on the day when the nuclear deal is signed.[28][29][30]
United States – President Barack Obama said a "historic understanding" had been reached with Iran,[5] and pointed out that the deal with Iran is a good deal if the deal could meet core objectives of the United States.[31] 150 Democratic Congress members signaled that they support reaching a deal, enough to sustain a Presidential Veto. Majority of Congress including all republicans and some democrats opposed the deal.[32]
Russia – Sergey Lavrov Foreign Minister of Russia knew this agreement a positive point in the security of Middle East.[33]
United Kingdom – Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said that the framework agreement with Iran was well beyond what many thought possible even 18 months earlier.[34]
Germany – German Chancellor Angela Merkel pointed out that the agreement is a great credit to all negotiating partners.[35]
Oman – Omani Minister Responsible for Foreign Affairs Yusuf bin Alawi bin Abdullah welcomed the framework deal between the Group 5+1 framework deal with Iran on its nuclear programme describing it "an historic agreement". He urged all sides to work out a final agreement before 30 June deadline.[36]
Italy –Italian Foreign Minister Paolo Gentiloni said that we are convinced that this last agreement could have positive consequences and effects both with Iran and also for developments in other crisis areas.[35]
South Korea South Korea – welcomed this framework for nuclear deal.[37]
Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia – the Saudi Press Agency reported Salman of Saudi Arabia was cautious but "expressed his hope that reaching a final binding deal would strengthen the stability and security of the region and the world."[38]
Israel – Benjamin Netanyahu strongly opposed the framework and claims that the current plan of action threatens the survival of Israel.[39][40][41][42] He also wrote that “Such a deal would not block Iran’s path to the bomb. It would pave it.”[43] Benjamin Netanyahu demanded that any final deal include a "clear and unambiguous Iranian recognition of Israel's right to exist," and that Iran stop its aggression in the region.[43][44][45]
Pakistan – The spokeswoman of foreign ministry of Pakistan, hoped that the negotiations between Iran and the six world powers would come to a favorable result.[46]
Holy See – Pope Francis praised the deal in his Easter Urbi et Orbi blessing message on Sunday, 5 April 2015, saying: "... At the same time, in hope we entrust to the merciful Lord the framework recently agreed to in Lausanne, that it may be a definitive step toward a more secure and fraternal world. ..."[47]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_nuclear_deal_framework
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 21, 2016 13:09:52 GMT -5
I'm not too concerned about Netanyahu's opinion as Israel has had the ability to turn Iran into a parking lot for ~50 years.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 21, 2016 13:21:34 GMT -5
The righties are realists, Don. I'm assuming the 5+1 countries are also realists and far less belligerant than certain Repo candidates calling for war against Iran. Is Iran calling for war against America right now?
Look at it this way. We've entered one of two situations:
i.the Iranian government is as reasonable as you suppose, in which case it hardly matters if they could build a nuclear bomb; they wouldn't use it. Hence we've granted a hostile nation access to $100 billion in capital for no reason. Not sure where I have claimed they are reasonable. They obviously still have some 'issues'. However, that doesn't mean they are unreasonable either and this deal is proof of that. And it's true that even if Iran acquired a nuke there is no reason they would use it. They know if they did they would be turned into obsidian within 20 minutes.
ii.the Iranian government isn't as reasonable as you suppose, and would nuke west or Israel if they acquired the bomb. Hence we've granted a nation with the presumed willingness to start WWIII access to $100 billion in capital. Once again, even if they are as unreasonable as you claim, why do you think they would commit mass suicide by lobbing even 1 nuke onto anyone? Israel would most likely do what they did to Iraq years ago if the Iranians even got close to building a nuke. I just see this as saber rattling from both side with Rubio, Cruz and numerous other elected repos matching the Ayotollah rattle for rattle.
What can Ayatollah Khamenei do with a $100 billion slush fund? I guess we'll find out. Considering the plummeting cost of oil, probably inserting these funds into the general fund to help with moving Iran forward.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 21, 2016 14:09:29 GMT -5
Oh Virgil. Always good for a lighthearted chuckle.
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 21, 2016 14:16:01 GMT -5
It's sad to see the conservatives be so opposed to this diplomacy put together by so many of our allies and us. I guess the righties just want another war. One doink Repo pol, was it Cruz?, implied it would be a piece of cake to take them out. Get real. All their saber rattling is just that. They know they would be a parking lot in 20 minutes if they ever got too belligerent. In the meantime you should all settle down. The righties are realists, Don. Look at it this way. We've entered one of two situations: - the Iranian government is as reasonable as you suppose, in which case it hardly matters if they could build a nuclear bomb; they wouldn't use it. Hence we've granted a hostile nation access to $100 billion in capital for no reason.
- the Iranian government isn't as reasonable as you suppose, and would nuke west or Israel if they acquired the bomb. Hence we've granted a nation with the presumed willingness to start WWIII access to $100 billion in capital.
What can Ayatollah Khamenei do with a $100 billion slush fund? I guess we'll find out. Well, it was their money.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 21, 2016 16:56:21 GMT -5
Just expressing themselves, eh VtL? Looks to me like a staged photo op what with the female photographer in the lower right hand corner.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 21, 2016 18:02:04 GMT -5
Is that Amhadinejad (sp) to the right of the flames? If so this photo is many years old.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 21, 2016 18:24:44 GMT -5
The righties are realists, Don. Look at it this way. We've entered one of two situations: - the Iranian government is as reasonable as you suppose, in which case it hardly matters if they could build a nuclear bomb; they wouldn't use it. Hence we've granted a hostile nation access to $100 billion in capital for no reason.
- the Iranian government isn't as reasonable as you suppose, and would nuke west or Israel if they acquired the bomb. Hence we've granted a nation with the presumed willingness to start WWIII access to $100 billion in capital.
What can Ayatollah Khamenei do with a $100 billion slush fund? I guess we'll find out. Well, it was their money. I guess that's one way of looking at the glass half full.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 21, 2016 18:43:19 GMT -5
Hence we've granted a hostile nation access to $100 billion in capital for no reason.
Then there is the other way to look at it:
As part of the deal to not proliferate in the nuke department, Iran has sanctions lifted and capital unfrozen and relations with the world thawed. The 5+1 nations have obviously concluded this is workable and I agree. Ten tears ago I wouldn't have, but Iran is moving forward. Let's hope (you can pray Virgil) this diplomacy achieves it's stated end and even more pressure can then be brought to bear that brings Iran even further into the world community. Frankly, that beats US boots on the ground and another stupid war for all you conservatives.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 21, 2016 19:02:31 GMT -5
isolating Iran was clearly not working. actually, isolation rarely works.
so, that leaves the OTHER alternative, which is what Obama is trying.
now, we can complain all we like about the change in strategy, but we have isolated NK. what did we get? we isolated Cuba. what did we get?
let's stop doing stuff that doesn't work, ok? purdy please?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 21, 2016 20:23:07 GMT -5
I have to agree that the policy of isolating Iran would eventually fail as well.
That said, you haven't avoided war. Iran is going to assert its power more and more, push the envelope, rock the boat, until eventually, maybe a year from now, maybe five years from now, ten years from now at the most, they're going to do something that (assuming the US is still solvent and functional by that point) will demand a military response.
The 5+1 nations have purchased a short period of detente and token reforms for $100 billion. Personally I think they're going to wind up with buyers' remorse. Maybe not. What's done is done, so it doesn't hurt to hope.
It's still trying to watch the participants strut around like glib peacocks, especially since they're not the ones who'll have to deal with the mess if and when the whole thing falls apart.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 21, 2016 20:50:31 GMT -5
will demand a military response.
Canada's turn then, eh?
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jan 21, 2016 21:22:54 GMT -5
Just expressing themselves, eh VtL? Looks to me like a staged photo op what with the female photographer in the lower right hand corner. Umm, well there is this then? www.google.ca/search?q=flag+burning+mid+east&nomo=1&hl=en-CA&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjekdSCrbzKAhUCx4MKHSGVDsIQ_AUIBQ Thousands of pictures from across the Mid East - not just Iran.... I think some of you are underestimating just how much people outside your boarders hate you guys. I mean here in Canada your friends(like me) are in the right wing conservative base - with a few exceptions on the left I'm sure. However, you have no idea how many times I have heard left wing folk go on and on about their pure disdain for you guys. The immigrants (from the mid east especially) that I've talked to on jobs sights over the years ALWAYS try to get into a conversation about how terrible you guys are(which I always love to put them in their place over). Heck, there is even a piece on C95 FM(local radio) every once and while about stupid stuff that goes on down there and the tag line is: "only in 'Merica." I remember going to Europe in grade twelve on an educational tour and they told us to make sure to put the Maple Leaf on your backpack because the last thing you want to be mistaken for is an American - so I sowed a US&Canada patch on mine. On topic now; you all can believe what you want about this being a great deal, a big WIN for diplomacy... But I've already posted a link on the last page about what the money will be used for. And while I don't think it will get to the point that VtL saying it will here, I do know that Russia has successfully crippled a power grid through hacking. Stay all.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Jan 21, 2016 21:27:24 GMT -5
Well some of the cash is going here: www.businessinsider.com/afp-iran-wants-to-buy-90-planes-a-year-to-renovate-fleet-2015-8"Tehran (AFP) - Iran plans on buying 80 to 90 Airbus and Boeing passenger planes per year until 300 are in place to replace its aging fleet, media reported Sunday quoting a civil aviation official. Civil Aviation Organisation (CAO) deputy chief Mohammad Khodakarami said the July 14 nuclear deal struck with Western powers lifts a ban preventing Iran from purchasing new planes and spare parts. He said the CAO would renovate the national fleet by purchasing an equal number of Airbus and Boeing planes at an estimated cost of $20 billion (18.2 billion euros). I suppose they plan on flying them into buildings
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jan 21, 2016 21:27:30 GMT -5
China needs their oil more than we do. Let them worry about it.
Really, enough of America World Police. Enough already! So close, dem! So close. This war is going global and it's all China's.. Then, true FREE enterprise.
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jan 22, 2016 9:42:06 GMT -5
I don't underestimate that at all, and I believe I understand it completely. If I were from a 2nd tier (or worse ) country and my options in life were severely constrained yet I saw the "way of the world" with the incredible American standard of living supported by the world economic and legal system as protected by the American military which didn't hesitate to bomb my people into line, yeah, I'd be irate too.
That is precisely what we do. Some of our goals were and are lofty. If we could give the world an open system of commerce and even justice like our own- the world will flourish! Everybody likes us, and trusts us. We just saved the world. (WWII) We can do it. And, that way, the world we be molded to be friendly to American commerce, law and wealth building, and the resources of the world will be available to us. Win - win!
But, the dirt is in the details. It is not easy or even really beneficial to run the world. I for one agree with the Pauls, Rand and Ron. It is not worth it. In fact, it is a cancer upon us, sapping our strength and our liberty, just as Eisenhower warned that it would. Much better to be the lion with the underdeveloped standing army than the hollow tiger with the sharp claws of ten fleets and two hundred foreign bases. Yes, there would be a downside to be sure. But it is not worth it.
I know you understand the haters out there, dem. I was banking on a intelligent, level headed response from ya boss. I would argue that it has been entirely worth it. You see FREEDOM has won the hearts and minds of people all over Asia, and the Christians I know from Nigeria absolutely love you guys, and they HATE Islam - with a passion. You see contrary to what the Islamic/commie propaganda machine that has infected Western culture says, the USA is not out to control the world. Which is why since the 1970's the US military strategy has been to build China up so that the world has two legs to work on. Again, I have all the data to back this up. The fact is that JC came to bring freedom and by God that is exactly what is going to happen.(It all part of scripture, FREEDOM that is.) Another long day here. Stay dem. Later.
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