Hitting the REAL Jackpot

[OldCoyote]

Boy,do we have short memories here, Do you remember this? How well is this working?



www.nytimes.com/1994/10/19/world/clinton-approves-a-plan-to-give-aid-to-north-koreans.html?pagewanted=all


Just think what North Korea could have done with a $100 Billion?



Just what is the difference between the leader of North Korea and Iran, there is not much!

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Jan 22, 2016 10:08:16 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Boy,do we have short memories here, Do you remember this? How well is this working?



www.nytimes.com/1994/10/19/world/clinton-approves-a-plan-to-give-aid-to-north-koreans.html?pagewanted=all


Just think what North Korea could have done with a $100 Billion?



Just what is the difference between the leader of North Korea and Iran, there is not much!

Heck, that's only the half of it, OC. Kerry is straight up admitting that "some" of this cash is going to go to jihad..

www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/politics/john-kerry-money-iran-sanctions-terrorism/

On the other hand, bimetalaupt(70) and myself have discussed a few times how he remembers talking with his mom about depleting the Saudis of their reserves - and then will see how high and might their monarchy is.

This is also why China is screwed without their USTs.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Jan 22, 2016 16:01:47 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I would argue that it has been entirely worth it. You see FREEDOM has won the hearts and minds of people all over Asia, and the Christians I know from Nigeria absolutely love you guys, and they HATE Islam - with a passion.

You see contrary to what the Islamic/commie propaganda machine that has infected Western culture says, the USA is not out to control the world. Which is why since the 1970's the US military strategy has been to build China up so that the world has two legs to work on. Again, I have all the data to back this up.

Well, whether it has been "worth it" or not, we are still the ones spending treasure, blood and ultimately our own liberty by spreading our military forces around the world.  I am sick and tired of it.  Time for a brand new plan.

The USA is not out to control the world.  However we very much see it in our interest to be at the helm of the decision making process for the rules and laws of international commerce. We very much see it in our interest (as any country would) to make sure that international treaties are structured such that they are most beneficial/ least hurtful to us.  This dovetails very nicely with American military persuasion and also the use of American foreign aid.  Again, any country would do the same. Our net result though, because we can, is runaway and insane military expenditures and commitments, and a foreign policy that must make contortionist moves to deal with all of our entanglements.  At the same time we ironically weaken the very treaties that we have in place for mutual protection, such as the venerated NATO treaty.  Time for a brand new plan.

I disagree with your point about US military strategy to build up China though- except in a limited sense as a counter weight to Russia- which may be what you were referring to.  Mostly they are reacting to reality on the ground and dealing with it.   

Well, American interest translates into the benefit of the little person.(For the record, Canada has been right there by the US's side pretty much the whole time, so it's not just American blood and money that has been sacrificed.) There is one reason and one reason only that we aren't the old world, and that is because our leaders make decisions based on ‎the economic structure we have.(Which is why the dictators of the world try so hard to discredit the USA.)

If our intention wasn't to build up China(and show their people freedom), then China wouldn't be worried about a consumer based economy right now. You can disagree that this plan has been in place for years(that new plan you kept mentioning), however, you also disagreed with me that what Putin was doing in the Ukraine was going to lead to the jihad going global - and here we are.

The biggest point you made was that we can just pull out of everything because the vacuum would be immense, this is without a doubt the case. But guess what? This WAR is going global, and it's all China's.‎(Well, we'll probably provide the air support for their ground troops. )

[billisonboard]

Jan 22, 2016 9:42:06 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

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The fact is that JC came to bring freedom and by God that is exactly what is going to happen.(It all part of scripture, FREEDOM that is.)

...

Or a monarchy

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

That's PRECISELY it, bills. A kingdom of free people with no human leader, just the ultimate power in the universe.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Dem, the house of Saud and their Gulf allies ARE a terrorist sovereign base! SO IS IRAN! The GCC's mercenaries are the Mujahideen(I.S. AQ, etc). Iran's mercenaries are Hezbollah, the Shitte militias, etc... Yes, you are right, THIS IS A REAL THREAT! Iran is completely surrounded and the Gulf has mercenaries from Europe to Southeast Asia. Again, you are right, after the war and the collapse of Islam, China will have to police the area to protect their interest.(Especially in their new expanded boarders(Sibera and parts of Russia.))

Again, believe whatever you want. I have the data to back up what I am saying, these aren't just theoretical thoughts that have turned out to be wrong.(Like the whole Russia and Ukraine thing.)

Sorry for being rude and yelling a bit. I have said my piece and I'm not about to keep debating something that is going to happen regardless of what we talk about on these boards. Have a good one, my friend.

[dondub]

Those funds are different than the $100B released as part of this new 'treaty'. Funds which belonged to Iran but had been frozen. The latest release is as you said and included a negotiation over the accrued interest of 40+ years. The amount was under $2B total from what I read.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Jan 23, 2016 16:12:12 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Aham- I don't find you rude at all. Like you I am not looking for endless debate either. I have stated my opinion and you have stated your opinion, which is different.  That is all fine and good.  We can agree to disagree.

I will say this though, going back on topic to the premise of this thread, which is the payment recently agreed upon to Iran.  As I'm sure you know, this was payment of money held by the United States for money that Iran paid us for weapons that were never delivered to Iran because of their revolution.  This was money owed to Iran by the USA, both according to our laws and by the rule of the International court.  We simply paid an obligation.

I am happy to hear that, Dem.. Sometimes it's hard to know how the words are being read on the other end..

I understand what you are saying and agree that it's Iran's cash. Why they are owed interest on the money when they were sanctioned because of the threat of nuclear weapons development is - IMO - sketchy.

The cartoon in the OP is still accurate, however. Iran had just recently fired a rocket at a ship, and the day of, or before(can't remember) they took sailors hostage at gun point. The lifting of the sanctions was - IMO - a priority to President Obama - regardless of it was a good deal - because he failed to accomplish anything with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and the Syrian and Ukrainian peace negotiations were also a big black eye.(All things him and Kerry were crowing about at one time or another.)

So yes, this was a big ole' jackpot for Iran because they need the cash for their proxies that a member of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard has stated are armed and ready for the Mahdi to appear.

[OldCoyote]

Ahh yes, give them a pile of money and guess what!!

www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-china-idUSKCN0V109V

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

China sure is making them think they got their back, eh OC.

Dem, over 100 billion was released to them. The interest may have only amounted to 2 billion, but they just got 100 billion, and as OC's link shows is it's still: Death to America.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

From your article..

The United States is to repay Iran a $400 million debt and $1.3 billion in interest dating to the Islamic revolution, Secretary of State John Kerry said Sunday.


The repayment, which settles a suit brought under an international legal tribunal, is separate from the tens of billions of dollars in frozen foreign accounts that Iran can now access after the end of nuclear sanctions.

Over one hundred billion USDs was unfrozen due to the sanctions being lifted.(Which Kerry and Obama crow as their deal.) Then there is this... newsweekpakistan.com/the-new-jihad/ Which confirms what I am saying about the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, the mercenaries and all. It's not going to be pretty, but it is what it is.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Nope, the big deal is over the 100 billion that was unfrozen when Iran was firing missles and kidnapping sailors. It's a big deal because it's obvious - to most - that Obama and Kerry were going to push this through no matter what because they needed a win in their foreign foray that has been an utter disaster.

Bottom line, what is done is done and even Kerry has admitted that "some" of this money is going to go to Jihad - which I have provided two separate reports to verify. This war is going global(thanks Putin) and it's all China's.

[dondub]

How easily the Obama bashers forget the 5+1 countries that were part of this global initiative.

And kidnapped sailors? HAHAHA! What would you think if two boat loads of Iranian military just wandered into Potomac Bay? Would they be released so readily?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

U.S. prisoners leave Iran, arrive in Germany, as Obama hails win for diplomacy

This is a good day because once again we are seeing what’s possible through strong American diplomacy," Obama said at the White House.

Iran Captured U.S. Sailors at Gunpoint, Defense Department Finds

Once again...Bottom line, what is done is done and even Kerry has admitted that "some" of this money is going to go to Jihad - which I have provided two separate reports to verify. This war is going global(thanks Putin) and it's all China's.

[dondub]

Iran Captured U.S. Sailors at Gunpoint, Defense Department Finds

Exactly what we would do under the same circumstances. At least they didn't overthrow our leader or shoot any of our planes out of the sky without provocation.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Ya, keep grasping at those straws!

[dondub]

Is that what that is? Murdering Iranian civilians is a straw now? Assassinating the democratically elected Mosaddegh, to install the fascist Shah, was simply a straw? or is it that you think we would allow Iranian boats to enter our waters and leave them completely alone?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

No, just your arguments are. As in trying to come up with left field points that have literally nothing to do with the topic at hand.. Aka trying to label people as Obama haters for something he literally said. But nice try though.

[dondub]

I think the term was "Obama bashers" directed at your bashing of Obama.

As far as the other points go....I realize the political memory of many Americans is quite short and that history may not be a strong suit for many others. But you claimed the Iranians "kidnapped" our sailors when

in reality they had entered Iranian waters and were subjected to the same security protocols we would use in a similar situation. Pales in comparison to our various misdeeds directed at the Iranian people. Such as shooting down a civilian aircraft with no provocation and assassinating their democratically elected leader to put the brutal regime of the Shah in place. That particularly fucked up move led directly to the hostage crisis and years of Iranian hostility towards us.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Jan 24, 2016 19:35:40 GMT -5 dondub said:

I think the term was "Obama bashers" directed at your bashing of Obama.

As far as the other points go....I realize the political memory of many Americans is quite short and that history may not be a strong suit for many others. But you claimed the Iranians "kidnapped" our sailors when

in reality they had entered Iranian waters and were subjected to the same security protocols we would use in a similar situation. Pales in comparison to our various misdeeds directed at the Iranian people. Such as shooting down a civilian aircraft with no provocation and assassinating their democratically elected leader to put the brutal regime of the Shah in place. That particularly fucked up move led directly to the hostage crisis and years of Iranian hostility towards us.

By "bashing" you mean accurately  depicting the fact that he is crowing about this being American diplomacy, right? ‎AKA, you thought you had something, but in reality you've got nothing. 

The other point was that they fired a missile at a ship(which you are ignoring) then took sailors hostage at gun point when there was apparently a malfunction in their vessel. A diplomatic action would have been to sit with the vessel and attempt to help them repair the ship so they could exit their waters.(Russian planes over California's coast recently with no action, so argue theory about boats all you want)  You are also ignoring the article that, OC posted regarding comments made after the deal was done. I.E. You and others keep crowing that this was a win for diplomacy, yet Iranian actions say the complete opposite.

Further, you try to prove a point that Iran was justified in taking US sailors at gunpoint by bringing up topics that were supposed to be done and in the past according to the release of the 2 billion in addition to the accounts being unfrozen. Plus, you are trying weave these points from left field into me somehow saying that these past actions - which were not even being discussed - are grasping at straws; which is called lying.  

So yeah, you've got nothing and you are grasping at straws to try and prove that this was a win for diplomacy.(Even more so now that you are trying to throw in points from left field.)

And for the last time(because this is now officially a circular conversation and a waste of my time)....Bottom line, what is done is done and even Kerry has admitted that "some" of this money is going to go to Jihad - which I have provided two separate reports to verify. This war is going global(thanks Putin) and it's all China's.
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[billisonboard]

Jan 24, 2016 20:16:55 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

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The other point was that they fired a missile at a ship(which you are ignoring) ...
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And now realty:

While the official said the Iranians were "clearly not" targeting ships, ... www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-carrier-harry-s-truman-has-close-call-iranian-n487536

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

And now the rest of the sentence....

the action was "unnecessarily provocative and unsafe."

But by all means, keep the delusion alive. Bravo, bills. Bravo.

[billisonboard]

Jan 24, 2016 20:16:55 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

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(Russian planes over California's coast recently with no action, ...
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Reality again:

Davis said the Russian planes were entirely within their rights, and it was a professional encounter on both sides. www.cnn.com/2015/07/23/politics/us-russian-bombers-july-4-intercept/

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Yep. Just like Russian planes buzzing your aircraft carriers. It's all good in the neighborhood. A win for diplomacy!! Yay!!

[billisonboard]

Jan 24, 2016 20:16:55 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

...

The other point was that they fired a missile at a ship ...
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Jan 24, 2016 22:07:51 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

... delusion ...

Yeah. I prove your statement to be untrue and I am engaged in "delusion".

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

You provided half a statement that proved nothing but you are willing to ignore what is going on. But hey, look at it how you want. You are free to do so.

[billisonboard]

Jan 24, 2016 22:14:16 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Yep. Just like Russian planes buzzing your aircraft carriers. It's all good in the neighborhood. A win for diplomacy!! Yay!!

I would quickly change the subject also.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Oh, sorry.. You're providing one example of many...
freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-conducts-nuclear-bomber-flight-near-alaska/

But again. It's all good in the neighborhood..

[billisonboard]

Jan 24, 2016 22:37:43 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Oh, sorry.. You're providing one example of many...
freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-conducts-nuclear-bomber-flight-near-alaska/

But again. It's all good in the neighborhood..

Again. From your link:

“These flights often enter the U.S. or Canadian [air defense identification zone], but have not entered U.S. or Canadian sovereign airspace,” he said, adding that the flights are legal since the ADIZ is not sovereign airspace.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Like I said, it's all good in the neighborhood.