Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 9:04:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 19:10:23 GMT -5
m But what if you are both blasted and have sex. He is just incoherent as you (not you persknaly)..:is that really rape? And who is doing the raping if both parties are too drunk to consent to sex I just find it crazy. I've done stuff I regret (drunk and sober!) but never would I blame someone else for my actions. I probably wouldn't have had sex with that person sober but that doesn't make it rape. It means I shouldn't be getting so drunk that I have sex with someone that I wouldn't have sex with sober Nobody is saying don't own your actions. Communicate! Teaching "yes" as the keyword isn't passing the buck on responsibility. I find yes to be personally empowering. Yes, I control my sexuality. Yes, I want to do that. No is extremely important, but yes is sex positive! "Yes" at every juncture or every 10 minutes is the exact opposite of "sex positive". I can't think of anything LESS sexy than the following (and, by the way, the genders are irrelevant... so we'll just use "person 1" and "person 2"): Person 1: Can I kiss you? Person 2: Yes. Can I kiss you back? Person 1: Yes. (kissing commences) Person 1: Can I fondle you through your clothes while I kiss you? Person 2: Yes. Can I fondle you back? Person 1: Yes. (fondling through clothing commences) Person 2: Can I take off your shirt? Person 1: Yes. Can I take yours off too? Person 2: Yes. et cetera... et cetera... et cetera for about 300 possible questions... over a 30 minute span of time. That's just too clinical to be sexy. I can't think how ANYONE could keep thinking sexy thoughts while acting in such a robotic fashion as that.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 9:04:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 19:13:11 GMT -5
Yet. You mean "nothing to be signed yet". That's where it's headed. It wouldn't surprise me if at some point in time sex requires non-participatory witnesses of both genders in attendance DURING the sex as well. We should have just stopped with "no means no". "Yes means yes, but you have to keep asking me every 10 minutes, or every time you want to move to another 'base', before proceeding" is just stupid. What part of the law has absolutely nothing to do with the legal aspects of consent and rape do you not understand? What part of "'Yes means yes, but you have to keep asking me every 10 minutes, or every time you want to move to another 'base', before proceeding' is stupid" do you not understand? I didn't say it's a law. I said the concept is stupid.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Oct 20, 2015 19:16:12 GMT -5
What part of the law has absolutely nothing to do with the legal aspects of consent and rape do you not understand? What part of "'Yes means yes, but you have to keep asking me every 10 minutes, or every time you want to move to another 'base', before proceeding' is stupid" do you not understand? I didn't say it's a law. I said the concept is stupid. You said a contract is next. That couldn't happen without it going to a law.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 9:04:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 19:22:18 GMT -5
What part of "'Yes means yes, but you have to keep asking me every 10 minutes, or every time you want to move to another 'base', before proceeding' is stupid" do you not understand? I didn't say it's a law. I said the concept is stupid. You said a contract is next. That couldn't happen without it going to a law. No argument. You suggested that I didn't know the "yes means yes" wasn't law. That's what I was addressing. I know it's not law... I also know it's stupid. ETA: Oh... and just because it's not a law YET... doesn't mean some wacko "we must protect women from themselves" legislator won't at least propose it become one (or worse, succeed at getting it made into one)... sooner or later
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 20, 2015 19:27:45 GMT -5
Male rape is a seriously under reported crime. Especially bringing that thread back up, I become more convinced that we should train the next generations, maybe at an even younger age, that people should ask permission before touching them in certain ways. ymam.proboards.com/post/2194608If you want to look at it as a negative thing, I would say it's more to protect the guys from being charged by women for their drunken decisions. I prefer not to have that view, though. If you mean it's "to protect the guys from being charged by women for the women's drunken decisions"... I would agree with you. That's what the whole BS "yes means yes, and get those yes's often while in the act" platform is about. It's not about protecting men from their mistakes... it's about protecting women from their choices. I agree with you and that is what pisses me off the most. Women have fought long and hard for equality but this law says we aren't smart enough to be held accountable for our actions...
|
|
Cookies Galore
Senior Associate
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 18:08:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,738
Member is Online
|
Post by Cookies Galore on Oct 20, 2015 19:30:04 GMT -5
Nobody is saying don't own your actions. Communicate! Teaching "yes" as the keyword isn't passing the buck on responsibility. I find yes to be personally empowering. Yes, I control my sexuality. Yes, I want to do that. No is extremely important, but yes is sex positive! "Yes" at every juncture or every 10 minutes is the exact opposite of "sex positive". I can't think of anything LESS sexy than the following (and, by the way, the genders are irrelevant... so we'll just use "person 1" and "person 2"): Person 1: Can I kiss you? Person 2: Yes. Can I kiss you back? Person 1: Yes. (kissing commences) Person 1: Can I fondle you through your clothes while I kiss you? Person 2: Yes. Can I fondle you back? Person 1: Yes. (fondling through clothing commences) Person 2: Can I take off your shirt? Person 1: Yes. Can I take yours off too? Person 2: Yes. et cetera... et cetera... et cetera for about 300 possible questions... over a 30 minute span of time. That's just too clinical to be sexy. I can't think how ANYONE could keep thinking sexy thoughts while acting in such a robotic fashion as that. I can't help you if this is how you think. www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/10/14/adults-hate-affirmative-consent-laws-the-college-students-i-meet-love-them/Oh no, communicating wants and desires with a sex partner. How terrible.
|
|
Cookies Galore
Senior Associate
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 18:08:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,738
Member is Online
|
Post by Cookies Galore on Oct 20, 2015 19:33:00 GMT -5
If you mean it's "to protect the guys from being charged by women for the women's drunken decisions"... I would agree with you. That's what the whole BS "yes means yes, and get those yes's often while in the act" platform is about. It's not about protecting men from their mistakes... it's about protecting women from their choices. I agree with you and that is what pisses me off the most. Women have fought long and hard for equality but this law says we aren't smart enough to be held accountable for our actions... Why do you think that encouraging openly communicating with a sex partner is a bad thing? If it helps eliminate the gray area that many young people can find themselves in, then I don't understand how it's bad. Saying yes IS owning your actions.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 9:04:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 19:36:35 GMT -5
"Yes" at every juncture or every 10 minutes is the exact opposite of "sex positive". I can't think of anything LESS sexy than the following (and, by the way, the genders are irrelevant... so we'll just use "person 1" and "person 2"): Person 1: Can I kiss you? Person 2: Yes. Can I kiss you back? Person 1: Yes. (kissing commences) Person 1: Can I fondle you through your clothes while I kiss you? Person 2: Yes. Can I fondle you back? Person 1: Yes. (fondling through clothing commences) Person 2: Can I take off your shirt? Person 1: Yes. Can I take yours off too? Person 2: Yes. et cetera... et cetera... et cetera for about 300 possible questions... over a 30 minute span of time. That's just too clinical to be sexy. I can't think how ANYONE could keep thinking sexy thoughts while acting in such a robotic fashion as that. I can't help you if this is how you think. www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/10/14/adults-hate-affirmative-consent-laws-the-college-students-i-meet-love-them/Oh no, communicating wants and desires with a sex partner. How terrible. You can "communicate" with a sex partner just as easily by being a willing participant. A verbal question followed by a verbal "yes" should not be necessary at every step or every 10 minutes.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 9:04:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 19:37:17 GMT -5
I agree with you and that is what pisses me off the most. Women have fought long and hard for equality but this law says we aren't smart enough to be held accountable for our actions... Why do you think that encouraging openly communicating with a sex partner is a bad thing? If it helps eliminate the gray area that many young people can find themselves in, then I don't understand how it's bad. Saying yes IS owning your actions. Active participation should be all that's required to "own your actions".
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,326
|
Post by swamp on Oct 20, 2015 19:38:02 GMT -5
Nobody is saying don't own your actions. Communicate! Teaching "yes" as the keyword isn't passing the buck on responsibility. I find yes to be personally empowering. Yes, I control my sexuality. Yes, I want to do that. No is extremely important, but yes is sex positive! "Yes" at every juncture or every 10 minutes is the exact opposite of "sex positive". I can't think of anything LESS sexy than the following (and, by the way, the genders are irrelevant... so we'll just use "person 1" and "person 2"): Person 1: Can I kiss you? Person 2: Yes. Can I kiss you back? Person 1: Yes. (kissing commences) Person 1: Can I fondle you through your clothes while I kiss you? Person 2: Yes. Can I fondle you back? Person 1: Yes. (fondling through clothing commences) Person 2: Can I take off your shirt? Person 1: Yes. Can I take yours off too? Person 2: Yes. et cetera... et cetera... et cetera for about 300 possible questions... over a 30 minute span of time. That's just too clinical to be sexy. I can't think how ANYONE could keep thinking sexy thoughts while acting in such a robotic fashion as that. I can think of lots of different ways to affirmatively consent that doesn't sound robotic. I little dirty talk can spice it up.
|
|
Cookies Galore
Senior Associate
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 18:08:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,738
Member is Online
|
Post by Cookies Galore on Oct 20, 2015 19:43:29 GMT -5
You can "communicate" with a sex partner just as easily by being a willing participant. A verbal question followed by a verbal "yes" should not be necessary at every step or every 10 minutes. Why do you think this is even remotely what it's about? "F--- me now." Boom, I just gave non-robotic consent.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 20, 2015 19:45:28 GMT -5
I agree with you and that is what pisses me off the most. Women have fought long and hard for equality but this law says we aren't smart enough to be held accountable for our actions... Why do you think that encouraging openly communicating with a sex partner is a bad thing? If it helps eliminate the gray area that many young people can find themselves in, then I don't understand how it's bad. Saying yes IS owning your actions. Because it is ridiculous that a female that wants to have sex has to specifically answer a question..:I truly find it absurd. It isn't about being shy. And so what if she said yes that night..:tomorrow she can deny it (or not remember it because she was drunk) and the poor bastard gets charged with rape anyway True rape is God awful....this is bullsht that just weakens women.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 20, 2015 19:45:42 GMT -5
You can "communicate" with a sex partner just as easily by being a willing participant. A verbal question followed by a verbal "yes" should not be necessary at every step or every 10 minutes. Why do you think this is even remotely what it's about? "F--- me now." Boom, I just gave non-robotic consent. But what if I would rather just grab his cock and go at it...is that still consent?
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 20, 2015 19:46:34 GMT -5
Why do you think that encouraging openly communicating with a sex partner is a bad thing? If it helps eliminate the gray area that many young people can find themselves in, then I don't understand how it's bad. Saying yes IS owning your actions. Active participation should be all that's required to "own your actions". I agree.
|
|
Cookies Galore
Senior Associate
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 18:08:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,738
Member is Online
|
Post by Cookies Galore on Oct 20, 2015 19:49:13 GMT -5
Why do you think this is even remotely what it's about? "F--- me now." Boom, I just gave non-robotic consent. But what if I would rather just grab his cock and go at it...is that still consent? What if the guy doesn't want you to just grab him? Men have feelings too.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 20, 2015 19:53:19 GMT -5
But what if I would rather just grab his cock and go at it...is that still consent? What if the guy doesn't want you to just grab him? Men have feelings too. In 44 years I have never been turned down for sex...isn't it always a "sure thing" with men??lol
|
|
Cookies Galore
Senior Associate
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 18:08:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,738
Member is Online
|
Post by Cookies Galore on Oct 20, 2015 19:53:57 GMT -5
Yeah, if you grab a guy's crotch that would be seen as consent. But if it's not obvious, what's so terrible about asking in some way? I really want to know why you think women are just dying to accuse a guy of rape the day after. Someone on this thread thinks women are stupid, alright...
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 9:04:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 20:04:11 GMT -5
I think if you can be held accountable for driving drunk... you should be able to be held accountable for your active participation in boinking drunk.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 20, 2015 20:04:23 GMT -5
Yeah, if you grab a guy's crotch that would be seen as consent. But if it's not obvious, what's so terrible about asking in some way? I really want to know why you think women are just dying to accuse a guy of rape the day after. Someone on this thread thinks women are stupid, alright... Because why are we putting the onus on men? If a woman doesn't want to have sex then she says no. If he keeps going that is rape. If two people are going at it but the word "yes is never spoken that doesn't mean there wasnt consent. If I am hot and heavy with a guy and then decide I changed my mind, I put my hand up and say "stop". Injust have a hard time wrapping my brain around the liberal female stance on this. And it isn't a knock to anyone..I truly don't understand. We want no one telling us to do with our bodies (keep the government out of my uterus is a common phrase I hear)...but then they tend to be in favor of this...blows my mind. It is still our body and I find t ludicrous that ay female would be told that before she has sex she has to utter the words "yes". And if she doesn't actually do that the guy Ivan be charged with rape...but no one cares if the guy uttered the word yes. I would laugh if a bunch of college guys started filing charges about rape...he fucked get silly but she never actually got his consent so therefore it is clearly rape I think this kind of stuff truly muddies the waters for true rape victims. A girl passed out at a party is rape. A drunk girl that regrets get decision is not rape
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 9:04:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 20:05:55 GMT -5
Yeah, if you grab a guy's crotch that would be seen as consent. But if it's not obvious, what's so terrible about asking in some way? I really want to know why you think women are just dying to accuse a guy of rape the day after. Someone on this thread thinks women are stupid, alright... Maybe if the woman doesn't want to have sex... she should just say "no". How about that? Would that be obvious enough?
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,326
|
Post by swamp on Oct 20, 2015 20:09:54 GMT -5
You can "communicate" with a sex partner just as easily by being a willing participant. A verbal question followed by a verbal "yes" should not be necessary at every step or every 10 minutes. Why do you think this is even remotely what it's about? "F--- me now." Boom, I just gave non-robotic consent. Thank you. I was beginning to think saying what you want/want to do to someone in the sack is not as common as I thought it was.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 20, 2015 20:17:25 GMT -5
Why do you think this is even remotely what it's about? "F--- me now." Boom, I just gave non-robotic consent. Thank you. I was beginning to think saying what you want/want to do to someone in the sack is not as common as I thought it was. But should it be a crime if you don't communicate the words? Im pretty sure I have had sex without expressly sayig yes. That is what my biggest issue is with this. Im a talker and not shy at all but Im sure there are times I've had sex without a shit ton of taking about it.
|
|
Cookies Galore
Senior Associate
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 18:08:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,738
Member is Online
|
Post by Cookies Galore on Oct 20, 2015 20:29:42 GMT -5
Yeah, if you grab a guy's crotch that would be seen as consent. But if it's not obvious, what's so terrible about asking in some way? I really want to know why you think women are just dying to accuse a guy of rape the day after. Someone on this thread thinks women are stupid, alright... Because why are we putting the onus on men? If a woman doesn't want to have sex then she says no. If he keeps going that is rape. If two people are going at it but the word "yes is never spoken that doesn't mean there wasnt consent. If I am hot and heavy with a guy and then decide I changed my mind, I put my hand up and say "stop". Injust have a hard time wrapping my brain around the liberal female stance on this. And it isn't a knock to anyone..I truly don't understand. We want no one telling us to do with our bodies (keep the government out of my uterus is a common phrase I hear)...but then they tend to be in favor of this...blows my mind. It is still our body and I find t ludicrous that ay female would be told that before she has sex she has to utter the words "yes". And if she doesn't actually do that the guy Ivan be charged with rape...but no one cares if the guy uttered the word yes. I would laugh if a bunch of college guys started filing charges about rape...he fucked get silly but she never actually got his consent so therefore it is clearly rape I think this kind of stuff truly muddies the waters for true rape victims. A girl passed out at a party is rape. A drunk girl that regrets get decision is not rape That's fine that you don't understand, because I will never understand how you always seem to assume the woman is just gearing up to accuse men of rape. I find that insulting to a woman's intelligence. Being affirmative in consent helps all parties involved. The idea of affirmative consent isn't new, and it is being embraced by college students, male and female. It's about asserting healthy sexual relationships. www.slate.com/articles/life/inside_higher_ed/2014/10/affirmative_consent_what_will_yes_means_yes_mean_for_sex_on_college_campuses.html
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Oct 20, 2015 20:39:36 GMT -5
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 20, 2015 20:52:07 GMT -5
Because why are we putting the onus on men? If a woman doesn't want to have sex then she says no. If he keeps going that is rape. If two people are going at it but the word "yes is never spoken that doesn't mean there wasnt consent. If I am hot and heavy with a guy and then decide I changed my mind, I put my hand up and say "stop". Injust have a hard time wrapping my brain around the liberal female stance on this. And it isn't a knock to anyone..I truly don't understand. We want no one telling us to do with our bodies (keep the government out of my uterus is a common phrase I hear)...but then they tend to be in favor of this...blows my mind. It is still our body and I find t ludicrous that ay female would be told that before she has sex she has to utter the words "yes". And if she doesn't actually do that the guy Ivan be charged with rape...but no one cares if the guy uttered the word yes. I would laugh if a bunch of college guys started filing charges about rape...he fucked get silly but she never actually got his consent so therefore it is clearly rape I think this kind of stuff truly muddies the waters for true rape victims. A girl passed out at a party is rape. A drunk girl that regrets get decision is not rape That's fine that you don't understand, because I will never understand how you always seem to assume the woman is just gearing up to accuse men of rape. I find that insulting to a woman's intelligence. Being affirmative in consent helps all parties involved. The idea of affirmative consent isn't new, and it is being embraced by college students, male and female. It's about asserting healthy sexual relationships. www.slate.com/articles/life/inside_higher_ed/2014/10/affirmative_consent_what_will_yes_means_yes_mean_for_sex_on_college_campuses.htmlBut should it be a crime if two drunk kids let emotions take over and the girl says she didn't actually consent even though she actively participated? And what guy is going to admit that she didn't consent? If the guy was out to rape her he will say she consented. If the two kids were drunk and she regrets it, the smart thing to do is say she consented..:that's what I would do
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Oct 20, 2015 22:40:31 GMT -5
I agree with the OP that I'm glad I'm old and don't have to deal with this. It used to turn me off when a guy asked if he could kiss me. Way to ruin the moment! But I'm the type of woman who had/has no problem saying no! and punching somebody if they don't listen. If I become single again maybe I better think of getting a tatoo saying "Hell yeah!" so that when my top gets taken off they will see it. Should I add an arrow pointing down just in case they still aren't sure or a "sign here" space?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 9:04:58 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2015 2:42:50 GMT -5
Yes! Yes! Yes! They never get tired of hearing it. Maybe it is more for the men after all.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Oct 21, 2015 7:56:16 GMT -5
The only thing this would accomplish is making sure that both parties stop for 5 seconds and consider what's about to happen. I guess that's good. It would be an absolute mojo killer for me though. IME any hiccups in the "rounding the bases" means I have to start completely from square one (if I want to maximize my enjoyment).
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,353
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 21, 2015 8:08:20 GMT -5
Thank you. I was beginning to think saying what you want/want to do to someone in the sack is not as common as I thought it was. But should it be a crime if you don't communicate the words? Im pretty sure I have had sex without expressly sayig yes. That is what my biggest issue is with this. Im a talker and not shy at all but Im sure there are times I've had sex without a shit ton of taking about it. As far as I know it is not a crime if either party stays silent. That is a misnomer.
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 21, 2015 8:34:05 GMT -5
So a simple "Are you ok with this" will kill the mood. Got it. The problem still exists if you don't keep asking before every.single new "act". Can I kiss you? Can I put my hand on your right boob? Can I put my hand on your left boob? Can I put my mouth "down there"? Can I turn you? Can I turn you again? Can I insert? Can I take out? Yes, it might sound absurd as you read it, but based on this new law, women can say that they only consented to parts 1, 2 and 3 but parts 4, 5 and 6 were not asked and therefor it's now rape.
|
|