Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 10, 2015 14:16:01 GMT -5
Congratulations, California. About time for the rest of the states too. California to become sixth US state to allow euthanasiaCalifornia is set to become the sixth American state to approve euthanasia, a controversial issue in the United States fueled by the recent suicide of a woman suffering from terminal cancer. "This is a historic step forward for Californians with terminal illnesses who have been looking to the legislature for the option to determine the quality of their final days of life based on their own personal beliefs," said Senator Bill Monning, one of the backers of the bill approved by the state assembly on Wednesday. The measure, approved by 43 votes against 34, is expected to be adopted by the state senate this week. California to become sixth US state to allow euthanasia
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 10, 2015 14:30:57 GMT -5
yay.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 10, 2015 14:32:32 GMT -5
I thought you would be happy.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 10, 2015 14:35:37 GMT -5
This is wonderful. Maybe by the time I need it, my state will have it, too.
My dad died from Alzheimers and my mom has dementia to the point she is incontinent and can't remember where she is, who she is, or who her children are. She can't bathe herself, dress herself, or walk.
As I was changing her diaper last weekend I thought about how very much she would hate to be living that way, if she was still in her sound mind. And I know I will never go out that way. I prefer to have assisted suicide than having to shoot myself in the head (so messy, so awful for the person who finds me, also possible to mess it up and not kill myself but only wind up as a vegetable).
People used to die from heart attacks and cancer. Now that more people are surviving those, we're about to have a tsunami of dementia patients living to very old ages, requiring constant (and expensive) care. I'm going to be sure I won't be one of them.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Sept 10, 2015 14:40:24 GMT -5
Congratulations, California. About time for the rest of the states too. California to become sixth US state to allow euthanasiaCalifornia is set to become the sixth American state to approve euthanasia, a controversial issue in the United States fueled by the recent suicide of a woman suffering from terminal cancer. "This is a historic step forward for Californians with terminal illnesses who have been looking to the legislature for the option to determine the quality of their final days of life based on their own personal beliefs," said Senator Bill Monning, one of the backers of the bill approved by the state assembly on Wednesday. The measure, approved by 43 votes against 34, is expected to be adopted by the state senate this week. California to become sixth US state to allow euthanasiaYeah, but apparently Gov. Brown is threatening to veto it . . . don't have a link, this info comes from a lobbyist friend in Sacto.
[and before anybody jumps on this, yes - - I realize that the legislature can override his veto]
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 10, 2015 14:41:01 GMT -5
I guess we will have to wait and see what happens then.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 10, 2015 14:55:42 GMT -5
I thought you would be happy. stuff like this makes me happy to live here.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 10, 2015 19:11:02 GMT -5
I don't think they'll do it for dementia patients.
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Peace Of Mind
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[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Sept 10, 2015 19:25:30 GMT -5
Come on, Florida! Let's be lucky #7!
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cael
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Post by cael on Sept 10, 2015 19:29:06 GMT -5
My uncle took advantage of Oregon's (new at the time I think) euthanasia law in 1999, as he was dying of lung cancer. It was absolutely the best way for him. My aunt has become a huge advocate of death with dignity and euthanasia laws... I hope more states follow.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Sept 10, 2015 21:40:05 GMT -5
Come on, Florida! Let's be lucky #7! Not needed in FL- homeowners shoot wandering dementia patients without consequences.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 11, 2015 17:07:06 GMT -5
I'll have to remember that. Instead of suicide by cop, it can be suicide by homeowner.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 14, 2015 7:55:59 GMT -5
I don't think they'll do it for dementia patients. If they allow for 'quality of life' they will. If I say that I want to be able to die when I no longer recognize my family and can no longer take care of my personal needs (hence all my quality of life is gone) - the medical establishment shouldn't be allowed to continue to maintain the shell of my body indefinitely, just like Terry Shaivo.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 14, 2015 8:17:48 GMT -5
I don't think they'll do it for dementia patients. If they allow for 'quality of life' they will. If I say that I want to be able to die when I no longer recognize my family and can no longer take care of my personal needs (hence all my quality of life is gone) - the medical establishment shouldn't be allowed to continue to maintain the shell of my body indefinitely, just like Terry Shaivo. If I remember correctly, the states where euthanasia is legal, the patient must be diagnosed by several doctors death is imminent within the next six months and be of sound mind. And because most dementia and Alzheimer's disease sufferers are not of sound mind for a far greater period than six months, and no doctor really knows when one of their dementia and AD pstients may die (barring known other current terminal illnesses), I don't see advanced directives, one, two, three or more years before natural death being honored or legalized. We must be careful with these types of rights. I believe and support in physician-assisted suicide but we must know the patient is of sound mind and diagnosed to die within six months at the time of their request. As much as I would have liked to see my mother euthanized to end her suffering from AD, I also would have wanted it to be her decision made with a sound mind. Unfortunately, she was not of sound mind for several years before her death. So we watched and waited, and waited, and waited for her to die.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 14, 2015 8:22:37 GMT -5
Not me. I had hoped, and I still hope that people will be able to make the decision about that. I'm not putting my kids through this. Or myself.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 14, 2015 8:24:37 GMT -5
Legally, yes, we must be careful. Morally, I think it is horrific that we continue to keep people alive, even if they were clear they didn't want to be kept alive. It often feels like a money grab. We have to find a better way. The current euthanasia laws are a good start. Maybe in another generation or two, our society will feel more comfortable with the idea of dying and be able to support better options.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 14, 2015 8:27:55 GMT -5
If they allow for 'quality of life' they will. If I say that I want to be able to die when I no longer recognize my family and can no longer take care of my personal needs (hence all my quality of life is gone) - the medical establishment shouldn't be allowed to continue to maintain the shell of my body indefinitely, just like Terry Shaivo. If I remember correctly, the states where euthanasia is legal, the patient must be diagnosed by several doctors death is imminent within the next six months and be of sound mind. And because most dementia and Alzheimer's disease sufferers are not of sound mind for a far greater period than six months, and no doctor really knows when one of their dementia and AD pstients may die (barring known other current terminal illnesses), I don't see advanced directives, one, two, three or more years before natural death being honored or legalized. We must be careful with these types of rights. I believe and support in physician-assisted suicide but we must know the patient is of sound mind and diagnosed to die within six months at the time of their request. As much as I would have liked to see my mother euthanized to end her suffering from AD, I also would have wanted it to be her decision made with a sound mind. Unfortunately, she was not of sound mind for several years before her death. So we watched and waited, and waited, and waited for her to die. I suspect in the coming years this will change. As less people die from cancer and heart problems, people are living longer, and the longer you live, the more likely you will get dementia or alzheimers. Society can't afford to foot the bill for such expensive care, for people who essentially have no quality of life at all, and who, if they were in their right minds, would beg to die. Some European countries allow people to make a living will that includes what they want to happen should they develop dementia or alzheimers, so that when they are in a sound mind, they can make their wishes known. We're going to have to allow something like this here. My mom has been living in assisted living/nursing homes for almost five years. She's used up most of her nest egg, and if my older sister hadn't died suddenly, allowing my mom to inherit about 130K from her estate, my mom would be out of money. At that point, she would either have to go into a less nice facility that will take medicare patients, or one of my siblings would have to quit their job and take care of her full time, at one of our homes, which would impact how much money we could set aside for our own retirement/long term care. This is what the baby boomers are facing, in growing numbers, as they age. Pretty bleak.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 14, 2015 8:35:13 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, the states where euthanasia is legal, the patient must be diagnosed by several doctors death is imminent within the next six months and be of sound mind. And because most dementia and Alzheimer's disease sufferers are not of sound mind for a far greater period than six months, and no doctor really knows when one of their dementia and AD pstients may die (barring known other current terminal illnesses), I don't see advanced directives, one, two, three or more years before natural death being honored or legalized. We must be careful with these types of rights. I believe and support in physician-assisted suicide but we must know the patient is of sound mind and diagnosed to die within six months at the time of their request. As much as I would have liked to see my mother euthanized to end her suffering from AD, I also would have wanted it to be her decision made with a sound mind. Unfortunately, she was not of sound mind for several years before her death. So we watched and waited, and waited, and waited for her to die. I suspect in the coming years this will change. As less people die from cancer and heart problems, people are living longer, and the longer you live, the more likely you will get dementia or alzheimers. Society can't afford to foot the bill for such expensive care, for people who essentially have no quality of life at all, and who, if they were in their right minds, would beg to die. Some European countries allow people to make a living will that includes what they want to happen should they develop dementia or alzheimers, so that when they are in a sound mind, they can make their wishes known. We're going to have to allow something like this here. My mom has been living in assisted living/nursing homes for almost five years. She's used up most of her nest egg, and if my older sister hadn't died suddenly, allowing my mom to inherit about 130K from her estate, my mom would be out of money. At that point, she would either have to go into a less nice facility that will take medicare patients, or one of my siblings would have to quit their job and take care of her full time, at one of our homes, which would impact how much money we could set aside for our own retirement/long term care. This is what the baby boomers are facing, in growing numbers, as they age. Pretty bleak. And I would be okay with that if it became law. But I have to ask: who makes the decision it is time to euthanize the patient? The patient may just want to live when they have their lucid moments, and they do have lucid moments for muvh of the time. Terrie Schiavo is a whole different matter. What the politicians did to her was criminal.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 14, 2015 8:56:03 GMT -5
Which ones??!! Maybe I can move there.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 14, 2015 9:42:16 GMT -5
If I'm lucid only briefly, that's not good enough. I used to have nightmares about being trapped in a useless body with only my mind working and I'd wake up screaming. Now I get to worry about a useless mind.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 14, 2015 9:51:14 GMT -5
If I'm lucid only briefly, that's not good enough. I used to have nightmares about being trapped in a useless body with only my mind working and I'd wake up screaming. Now I get to worry about a useless mind. Locked-In Syndrome. If you have never seen the movie or read the book, watch the movie, The Diving Bell and the Butterfly (original French title: Le Scaphandre et le Papillon) a memoir by journalist Jean-Dominique Bauby. After his stroke, he could only communicate by blinking his left eye lid. Excellent movie. Excellent. French language with English subtitles. In the Blink of an EyeIf that were me, I would ask by blinking my eyelid for someone to kill me.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 14, 2015 10:11:57 GMT -5
Except it's illegal for anyone to help you kill yourself. Or kill you even if you request it. . That's why I told my kid to take me to water and just let me go in.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 14, 2015 10:13:10 GMT -5
But I'd much rather get my affairs in order, have a party, and drink "bye bye" in a Bloody Mary.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Sept 14, 2015 11:39:55 GMT -5
Even if euthanasia is legal in the state, it is not always available. In WA it is legal but in some cases it can be difficult in multiple ways.
First is residency requirements. I guess that these states are trying to avoid people moving from other states in order to do this. From my understanding, Oregon has fairly stringent requirements, but WA it is more lax.
Secondly, it can depend upon the hospital where the treating physician has privileges. The only local hospital is a Catholic hospital and they will not allow it.....period. If TD or I were terminal, we would have to have a treating physician 100 miles away from home. As many other hospital systems are being bought up by religious affiliates, this is going to only get more difficult because I believe one of the major hospital chains in Seattle was recently bought up by another Catholic entity.
We researched this fairly thoroughly when a friend of the family came down with ALS and was looking at this. Fortunately (that sounds bad), he wound up having a major stroke and died before his disease progressed to the point where he would have lost total control of his facilities.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 14, 2015 11:41:20 GMT -5
Stuff like this is so cruel and unnecessary.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 14, 2015 12:01:56 GMT -5
As many other hospital systems are being bought up by religious affiliates, this is going to only get more difficult because I believe one of the major hospital chains in Seattle was recently bought up by another Catholic entity
CHI by any chance? They are trying to buy up all the hospitals here and prevent women from having access to birth control and other procedures. There are several pending lawsuits where they allowed women to nearly bleed to death rather than intervene during a miscarriage b/c it was "God's will".
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Sept 14, 2015 12:03:41 GMT -5
Congratulations, California. About time for the rest of the states too. California to become sixth US state to allow euthanasiaCalifornia is set to become the sixth American state to approve euthanasia, a controversial issue in the United States fueled by the recent suicide of a woman suffering from terminal cancer. "This is a historic step forward for Californians with terminal illnesses who have been looking to the legislature for the option to determine the quality of their final days of life based on their own personal beliefs," said Senator Bill Monning, one of the backers of the bill approved by the state assembly on Wednesday. The measure, approved by 43 votes against 34, is expected to be adopted by the state senate this week. California to become sixth US state to allow euthanasiaAbout damned time. Now the rest of the country needs to follow suit. For heaven's sake, we treat our sick and elderly pets better when they can no longer live good lives. Why do we insist on keeping our beloved fellow humans alive when there is nothing left for them but bedsores, IV hookups and the empty space of life without living, even when they have put their final wishes in writing? Makes no sense to me. Forget the financial issues of keeping people alive for a moment. I'm not even going there or making that judgment call. Every one over the age of 18 needs a will, a power of attorney, advance directives and any final wishes and requests in writing. And make sure copies are given to people who can do something with them. This is paperwork that can be updated as time passes and life changes occur. Flame me all you want, but once you are an adult, you can and should make these decisions. Save your loved ones from the agony, save yourself from months or perhaps years of wasting away in misery and pain. Death isn't something any of us wants to face and we certainly don't want to face the idea of losing a loved one. But what's better: making the intelligent decisions ahead of time and knowing those left behind will be at peace, even while they grieve; or relatives ranting, fists flying, lawyers battling it out in court, while death steals a loved one bit by bit?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 14, 2015 12:33:38 GMT -5
Which ones??!! Maybe I can move there. Don't quote me on this - I read an article recently about a man in either the Netherlands or Belgium whose mom was chronically depressed, and she was able to go to an assisted suicide center and have them help her kill herself - in that country, mental illness is a good enough reason. There was also no requirement that she tell her children or any other family members what she intended to do. Her son was very distraught and was trying to get that part of the law changed - and I agree, I don't think someone who is perfectly healthy physically but has chronic MI issues ought to be a candidate for suicide. If I'm not mistaken, I think the article said Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg all had similar laws allowing people with dementia/MI being able to commit suicide.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 14, 2015 12:35:37 GMT -5
I get that no one wants to feel that sick people will be pressured to end their lives but for those of us who wish a QUAlity of life, why should our choice be taken away because someone might want to inherit faster?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 14, 2015 12:47:18 GMT -5
I suspect in the coming years this will change. As less people die from cancer and heart problems, people are living longer, and the longer you live, the more likely you will get dementia or alzheimers. Society can't afford to foot the bill for such expensive care, for people who essentially have no quality of life at all, and who, if they were in their right minds, would beg to die. Some European countries allow people to make a living will that includes what they want to happen should they develop dementia or alzheimers, so that when they are in a sound mind, they can make their wishes known. We're going to have to allow something like this here. My mom has been living in assisted living/nursing homes for almost five years. She's used up most of her nest egg, and if my older sister hadn't died suddenly, allowing my mom to inherit about 130K from her estate, my mom would be out of money. At that point, she would either have to go into a less nice facility that will take medicare patients, or one of my siblings would have to quit their job and take care of her full time, at one of our homes, which would impact how much money we could set aside for our own retirement/long term care. This is what the baby boomers are facing, in growing numbers, as they age. Pretty bleak. And I would be okay with that if it became law. But I have to ask: who makes the decision it is time to euthanize the patient? The patient may just want to live when they have their lucid moments, and they do have lucid moments for muvh of the time. Terrie Schiavo is a whole different matter. What the politicians did to her was criminal. This is why you would have to make your wishes known years in advance, before you start going down the dementia/alzheimers path. Since my dad died from Alzheimers (nightmare) and my mom has dementia (Also a nightmare) my chances of also having that happen are better than most, unless I die from something else first. So I plan on updating my Living Will to include instructions about when I should be allowed to just go to sleep permanently, so my DH or son won't have to make that decision. Hopefully medicine will have advanced to the point that it will honor my wishes. I confess this makes me fairly hostile, when I visit my doctor and he suggests I could make some lifestyle changes so I could live longer - what the hell do I want to be 80 for? 80 is the age that both my mom and dad became unable to care for themselves, although my dad lived 3 years longer and my mom is still here at 86. 80 is apparently the expiration date for our family. I pray every night I fall off a cliff at 78. That actually isn't so far fetched - while hiking a couple years ago, standing on a narrow path overlooking a beautiful water fall, I got so tickled when my DH slipped and fell in the mud (taking out a rododendron sapling on the way) that I almost hyperventilated and fell into the ravine. Fortunately the thought of death made me stop laughing - but what an awesome way to go, when the time comes, laughing hysterically while falling into a gorgeous waterfall.
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