Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 13:44:16 GMT -5
He's an outright liar is my point. Quote follows...“At some point we will have to deal with the fact that this kind of mass violence doesn’t happen in other countries" So be it. Now about the non-reporting of the Tunisia shootings by the media and Obama/the White House: is that a lie too? All those articles and links I provided via Google aren't really there? My point exactly. Why say "At some point we will have to deal with the fact that this kind of mass violence doesn’t happen in other countries" ?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2015 13:49:11 GMT -5
So be it. Now about the non-reporting of the Tunisia shootings by the media and Obama/the White House: is that a lie too? All those articles and links I provided via Google aren't really there? My point exactly. Why say "At some point we will have to deal with the fact that this kind of mass violence doesn’t happen in other countries" ? That is not what I asked you. You said: "In Tunisia, a lone gunman killed over thirty British and Irish tourists just a couple of days after that church shooting. Seemed to be no mention of that in the major media or by Obama." So was there no mention in the media or the White House about the killing in Tunisia as you claimed? A simple yes or no will suffice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 13:50:02 GMT -5
Some of those listed countries are one time events. The U.S. is listed the most times. Are you of the opinion we don't have a problem here in the U.S. and we should not address the root causes of these killings? Since all these shooting/ killings seem to take place in gun restriction zones, I feel the root cause is disarming people and making them into easy targets for violence. We should address this problem by reducing gun control zones.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2015 13:51:46 GMT -5
Some of those listed countries are one time events. The U.S. is listed the most times. Are you of the opinion we don't have a problem here in the U.S. and we should not address the root causes of these killings? Since all these shooting/ killings seem to take place in gun restriction zones, I feel the root cause is disarming people and making them into easy targets for violence. We should address this problem by reducing gun control zones. Everyone open carry. Yea, that will work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 13:58:01 GMT -5
My point exactly. Why say "At some point we will have to deal with the fact that this kind of mass violence doesn’t happen in other countries" ? That is not what I asked you. You said: "In Tunisia, a lone gunman killed over thirty British and Irish tourists just a couple of days after that church shooting. Seemed to be no mention of that in the major media or by Obama." So was there no mention in the media or the White House about the killing in Tunisia as you claimed? A simple yes or no will suffice. Do you still beat your wife ? A simple yes or no will suffice. At the time of his statement, he said it doesn't happen in other countries. What more do you need ?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2015 13:59:12 GMT -5
That is not what I asked you. You said: "In Tunisia, a lone gunman killed over thirty British and Irish tourists just a couple of days after that church shooting. Seemed to be no mention of that in the major media or by Obama." So was there no mention in the media or the White House about the killing in Tunisia as you claimed? A simple yes or no will suffice. Do you still beat your wife ? A simple yes or no will suffice. At the time of his statement, he said it doesn't happen in other countries. What more do you need ? Deflect much?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 14:02:44 GMT -5
Since all these shooting/ killings seem to take place in gun restriction zones, I feel the root cause is disarming people and making them into easy targets for violence. We should address this problem by reducing gun control zones. Everyone open carry. Yea, that will work. Deflect much ?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2015 14:04:12 GMT -5
Everyone open carry. Yea, that will work. Deflect much ? Isn't that what you want" Everyone to carry a firearm? How is that deflecting?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 2, 2015 14:12:45 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 2, 2015 14:17:37 GMT -5
Not any less dead? Third word countries have unrest, civil war, military factions and paramilitary factions duking it out, anti-government militias, religious group infighting and blowing each other up, you name it. In other words...lawlessness. You want to compare the US to that? Be my guest.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2015 14:22:55 GMT -5
That is not what I asked you. You said: "In Tunisia, a lone gunman killed over thirty British and Irish tourists just a couple of days after that church shooting. Seemed to be no mention of that in the major media or by Obama." So was there no mention in the media or the White House about the killing in Tunisia as you claimed? A simple yes or no will suffice. Do you still beat your wife ? A simple yes or no will suffice. At the time of his statement, he said it doesn't happen in other countries. What more do you need ? he said it didn't happen in other countries with such frequency, if you listen to it in context. is that untrue?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 14:25:43 GMT -5
Deflect much ? Isn't that what you want" Everyone to carry a firearm? How is that deflecting? In your usual push or more gun control, you seem to forget that humans have been killing each other in a myriad of ways long before the discovery of gunpowder. It's what we are. I can accept that. As conflicting cultures are ever and ever being pushed closer to one another due to exponential population growth and modern communication/travel. Do you really wish to be more defenseless, or do you just not see it. Think ISIS media push for lone wolf attacks as just a part of a "growing" problem (pun intended). I also don't believe in a "collective guilt" as a gun owner, because somebody shot someone else without legal justification. Solve your root cause. It isn't the tool.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 14:35:40 GMT -5
Not any less dead? Third word countries have unrest, civil war, military factions and paramilitary factions duking it out, anti-government militias, religious group infighting and blowing each other up, you name it. In other words...lawlessness. You want to compare the US to that? Be my guest. Thanks for the pile-on. My gun stance is in reply #137
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 2, 2015 14:51:49 GMT -5
Not any less dead? Third word countries have unrest, civil war, military factions and paramilitary factions duking it out, anti-government militias, religious group infighting and blowing each other up, you name it. In other words...lawlessness. You want to compare the US to that? Be my guest. Thanks for the pile-on. My gun stance is in reply #137 So again...name another first-world country with the same frequency of mass shootings.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2015 17:32:38 GMT -5
Isn't that what you want" Everyone to carry a firearm? How is that deflecting? In your usual push or more gun control, you seem to forget that humans have been killing each other in a myriad of ways long before the discovery of gunpowder. It's what we are. I can accept that. As conflicting cultures are ever and ever being pushed closer to one another due to exponential population growth and modern communication/travel. Do you really wish to be more defenseless, or do you just not see it. Think ISIS media push for lone wolf attacks as just a part of a "growing" problem (pun intended). I also don't believe in a "collective guilt" as a gun owner, because somebody shot someone else without legal justification. Solve your root cause. It isn't the tool. No it isn't. For the vast majority of our mass shootings, we have our own version of ISIS: DLWG-disgruntled, loser, white guys. DLWGs are the root cause and mass shootings are only going to get worse.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 2, 2015 17:36:32 GMT -5
Darn. I find myself agreeing with many people here I usually do not agree with. And I do not even feel "dirty".
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2015 17:43:36 GMT -5
LOL.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Sept 2, 2015 21:54:11 GMT -5
Semantics- he should have said 'this level of mass violence' and that would be correct. Everyone knows what he meant.
I see no solution at all other than time. I read somewhere after Sandy Hook and the failure of congress to do anything at all that Americans- or at least their representatives- have decided that dead children are an acceptable consequence of our laws. It is going to keep happening until people finally have enough- I give it at least another 20-50 years of blood before anything changes.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 2, 2015 22:24:17 GMT -5
Semantics- he should have said 'this level of mass violence' and that would be correct. Everyone knows what he meant. I see no solution at all other than time. I read somewhere after Sandy Hook and the failure of congress to do anything at all that Americans- or at least their representatives- have decided that dead children are an acceptable consequence of our laws. It is going to keep happening until people finally have enough- I give it at least another 20-50 years of blood before anything changes. Pleas post what and where you read this. where dead children are acceptable
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Sept 2, 2015 23:06:12 GMT -5
With the overwhelming support of voters, NRA members, gun owners, etc. a simple bill to close a loophole and check the background of gun purchasers failed in congress. We as a society have accepted the fact that dead children are less important than ANY gun control legislation. That simple.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 2, 2015 23:48:13 GMT -5
Fishy999, Let's say we do a background on every "honest" gun sale, Is that going to make you happy? you will leave us legal gun owners alone then?
Or is this just the first step?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 3, 2015 3:10:43 GMT -5
Fishy999, Let's say we do a background on every "honest" gun sale, Is that going to make you happy? you will leave us legal gun owners alone then? Or is this just the first step? I can't speak for Fishy, but that would satisfy me quite nicely. I own a gun. My kids own guns, and their kids own guns. I think that's how the vast majority of people feel about it. Nobody wants to take your gun(s) away from you if you use them responsibly and aren't some raving lunatic who shouldn't have one in the first place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 12:14:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the pile-on. My gun stance is in reply #137 So again...name another first-world country with the same frequency of mass shootings. Don't have to, it wasn't my point. My point was Obama's wording in his statements after the Charleston shooting. Only DJ seemed to stay on topic. He also had a better source than me. We also have a lot of vehicle deaths compared to other countries. Do we need to outlaw cars ? You have way higher of a chance of being killed in a car accident in this country than a mass shooting. I still drove into town this morning. Acceptable risk. So again... see post #137 for my stance on firearms.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 12:24:34 GMT -5
In your usual push or more gun control, you seem to forget that humans have been killing each other in a myriad of ways long before the discovery of gunpowder. It's what we are. I can accept that. As conflicting cultures are ever and ever being pushed closer to one another due to exponential population growth and modern communication/travel. Do you really wish to be more defenseless, or do you just not see it. Think ISIS media push for lone wolf attacks as just a part of a "growing" problem (pun intended). I also don't believe in a "collective guilt" as a gun owner, because somebody shot someone else without legal justification. Solve your root cause. It isn't the tool. No it isn't. For the vast majority of our mass shootings, we have our own version of ISIS: DLWG-disgruntled, loser, white guys. DLWGs are the root cause and mass shootings are only going to get worse. And yet the CDC in their recent study, lists DGU's (defensive gun use) at anywhere from 500,000 to 3,000,000. Does the Charleston shooter match your DWLG profile? You know, the one that could of been Obama's son? I also said ISIS lone wolf attacks are "part" of a growing problem. I didn't rule out other sources of domestic terrorism. I still stand by #137.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2015 12:33:04 GMT -5
So again...name another first-world country with the same frequency of mass shootings. Don't have to, it wasn't my point. My point was Obama's wording in his statements after the Charleston shooting. Only DJ seemed to stay on topic. He also had a better source than me. We also have a lot of vehicle deaths compared to other countries. Do we need to outlaw cars ? You have way higher of a chance of being killed in a car accident in this country than a mass shooting. I still drove into town this morning. Acceptable risk. So again... see post #137 for my stance on firearms. Car deaths are not the result of malice. Shooting deaths are.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 12:33:41 GMT -5
Deflect much ? Isn't that what you want" Everyone to carry a firearm? How is that deflecting? If you have to ask what I want, it's deflecting with that previous statement on open carry.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2015 12:39:01 GMT -5
No it isn't. For the vast majority of our mass shootings, we have our own version of ISIS: DLWG-disgruntled, loser, white guys. DLWGs are the root cause and mass shootings are only going to get worse. And yet the CDC in their recent study, lists DGU's (defensive gun use) at anywhere from 500,000 to 3,000,000. Does the Charleston shooter match your DWLG profile? You know, the one that could of been Obama's son? I also said ISIS lone wolf attacks are "part" of a growing problem. I didn't rule out other sources of domestic terrorism. I still stand by #137. Your CDC study reference probably isn't worth beans. Why the CDC still isn’t researching gun violence, despite the ban being lifted two years ago
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 12:40:07 GMT -5
Don't have to, it wasn't my point. My point was Obama's wording in his statements after the Charleston shooting. Only DJ seemed to stay on topic. He also had a better source than me. We also have a lot of vehicle deaths compared to other countries. Do we need to outlaw cars ? You have way higher of a chance of being killed in a car accident in this country than a mass shooting. I still drove into town this morning. Acceptable risk. So again... see post #137 for my stance on firearms. Car deaths are not the result of malice. Shooting deaths are. Thanks weltz.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2015 12:41:55 GMT -5
Car deaths are not the result of malice. Shooting deaths are. Thanks weltz. LOL. That's the best you got? See ya.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 12:43:23 GMT -5
And yet the CDC in their recent study, lists DGU's (defensive gun use) at anywhere from 500,000 to 3,000,000. Does the Charleston shooter match your DWLG profile? You know, the one that could of been Obama's son? I also said ISIS lone wolf attacks are "part" of a growing problem. I didn't rule out other sources of domestic terrorism. I still stand by #137. Your CDC study reference probably isn't worth beans. Why the CDC still isn’t researching gun violence, despite the ban being lifted two years agoYeah, I rank it right there with your "malice" statement. You do have a source that these mass killings are caused by malice and not other reasons like mental aberration etc.
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