Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 27, 2015 13:00:46 GMT -5
Same bullshit again, and again, and again.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 27, 2015 14:21:15 GMT -5
it is more scary that unstable conservatives are roaming around- because they are more likely to be armed. edit: and, as you love to point out, they are a larger political group. Conservatives, almost by definition, do not embrace wanton violence as a means of getting what they want, red herring. i didn't say "conservatives". i said UNSTABLE conservatives. liberals don't embrace violence, either. UNSTABLE liberals do. please stop misquoting me. tyia.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 27, 2015 14:25:14 GMT -5
Abortion clinic bombers/shooters, white supremacy groups, fundamentalist religious groups from every major religion including Christianity. All these folks are liberal? Dude please. AQ is PROFOUNDLY conservative. PROFOUNDLY. as in....they want to party like it's 1099 conservative. conservatives will never admit it, tho. they keep intimating that they are one of us, rather than one of them.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 27, 2015 14:27:14 GMT -5
Same bullshit again, and again, and again.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 14:49:49 GMT -5
If we had a real "fair and balanced" media, the true and accurate headline would be: Black Gay Obama Supporter Murders Coworkers in Racially Motivated AttackIf we had a right wing media like our current left wing media, the sub-headline would be:Is It Time To Ban This Flag?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 14:53:35 GMT -5
How about this: I think many of you lefties here agree that mental health should be part of the criteria to determine whether someone can legally own a gun. If I am wrong- stop me here. OK, ready?
Whatever restrictions we place on gun ownership, and whatever you have to do to purchase and carry a gun, you must follow the exact same procedure, and meet the exact same eligibility requirements...to vote.
Deal?
No?
Then do not feed me the bullshit that you aren't trying to restrict gun rights.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 27, 2015 14:56:55 GMT -5
If we had a real "fair and balanced" media, the true and accurate headline would be: Black Gay Obama Supporter Murders Coworkers in Racially Motivated AttackPaul- i get what you are saying here, and i PARTIALLY agree with it. here is where i don't. there are two issues here that make that headline impossible. the FIRST is what i call "popular narratives". old white male seduces young females (or males) is a popular, believable, and widely accepted "wrong" in society. if, on the other hand, the actual narrative is young white female seduces older males (ala Lolita), that is NOT a popular, believable, or widely accepted "wrong" in society. the POPULAR and/or WRONG tends to get headlines. the NOT POPULAR and/or NOT WRONG don't. the second has to do with historical repression. groups that have been historically repressed are cut MORE SLACK for misdeeds than their oppressors. is that fair? no. it is not fair. but it is UNDERSTANDABLE. nobody wants to be seen as siding with the oppressor, Paul- including news media. does that create biases? sure it does. are those biases "liberal"? only if you are saying that conservatives favor past oppression and unpopular notions of wrong. do they? i can't answer that, since i am not one. but i can tell you what i would say if you want to ask the same of liberals, and that is hell no in the case of past oppression, and sometimes in the case of unpopular notions of wrong- and the latter really is a curse for us.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 27, 2015 14:58:44 GMT -5
How about this: I think many of you lefties here agree that mental health should be part of the criteria to determine whether someone can legally own a gun. If I am wrong- stop me here. OK, ready? Whatever restrictions we place on gun ownership, and whatever you have to do to purchase and carry a gun, you must follow the exact same procedure, and meet the exact same eligibility requirements...to vote. Deal? sure. i don't think the mentally ill should be able to vote. i am good with that restriction. your turn: you good with making all drugs legal for those with right minds?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 27, 2015 15:28:11 GMT -5
If we had a real "fair and balanced" media, the true and accurate headline would be: Black Gay Obama Supporter Murders Coworkers in Racially Motivated AttackIf we had a right wing media like our current left wing media, the sub-headline would be:Is It Time To Ban This Flag?
It's like watching American Horror Story: Asylum all over again.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 27, 2015 15:53:36 GMT -5
How about this: I think many of you lefties here agree that mental health should be part of the criteria to determine whether someone can legally own a gun. If I am wrong- stop me here. OK, ready? Whatever restrictions we place on gun ownership, and whatever you have to do to purchase and carry a gun, you must follow the exact same procedure, and meet the exact same eligibility requirements...to vote. Deal? sure. i don't think the mentally ill should be able to vote. i am good with that restriction. your turn: you good with making all drugs legal for those with right minds? So anyone who has ever had a clinical depression or is scared of the out of doors, should not be able to vote ever?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 27, 2015 15:58:34 GMT -5
DJ,
I personally hate the term mentally ill, however, those who do like it should be aware of all the stuff that falls under that umbrella which includes ADHD and eating disorders.
www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm/dsm-5
See the updated disorders section on that page for just a few things that get lumped into mental illness.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 27, 2015 16:23:56 GMT -5
sure. i don't think the mentally ill should be able to vote. i am good with that restriction. your turn: you good with making all drugs legal for those with right minds? So anyone who has ever had a clinical depression or is scared of the out of doors, should not be able to vote ever? nope. didn't say that. but let's be honest- we were actually talking about gun control.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 27, 2015 16:24:54 GMT -5
DJ,
I personally hate the term mentally ill, however, those who do like it should be aware of all the stuff that falls under that umbrella which includes ADHD and eating disorders.
www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm/dsm-5
See the updated disorders section on that page for just a few things that get lumped into mental illness. i am quite familiar with the DSM, thanks.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 27, 2015 16:49:23 GMT -5
So anyone who has ever had a clinical depression or is scared of the out of doors, should not be able to vote ever? nope. didn't say that. but let's be honest- we were actually talking about gun control. You said, and I quoted it, that you didn't think the mentally ill should be able to vote. The discussion was about gun control until you tossed that in prompted by Paul's comment.
What are you defining as mentally ill?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 27, 2015 17:12:25 GMT -5
nope. didn't say that. but let's be honest- we were actually talking about gun control. You said, and I quoted it, that you didn't think the mentally ill should be able to vote. The discussion was about gun control until you tossed that in prompted by Paul's comment.
What are you defining as mentally ill?
i was using the vernacular. i presume that Paul was as well. if you want to press me on this, i would say that incapacity to make sound judgment would be the standard. the same standard that was used for the infamous "twinkie defense".
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 18:09:57 GMT -5
I don't think suicide is something a rational person does. I think he hit such a low point that he wanted to kill for revenge then kill himself to show everyone they were wrong. correct. this was more like a terrorist act than a suicide, in my way of reading it. That's actually a pretty good point. It's easy to say that he was "crazy" or "mentally ill", but not all aberrant behavior is a sign of insanity. He had obviously swallowed the steady stream of ideological brainwashing hook, line, and sinker. He couldn't see his own incompetence, he was incapable of personal growth- because in his twisted worldview he was not responsible for anything that happened to him. He was a victim. Finally broken, and disillusioned after losing job after job, and never really "getting it", he lashed out one final time in despair and took his own life to make a point: I'm still not responsible for my behavior, not even willful, premeditated murder. I'm still a victim.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 27, 2015 18:12:46 GMT -5
correct. this was more like a terrorist act than a suicide, in my way of reading it. That's actually a pretty good point. It's easy to say that he was "crazy" or "mentally ill", but not all aberrant behavior is a sign of insanity. He had obviously swallowed the steady stream of ideological brainwashing hook, line, and sinker. He couldn't see his own incompetence, he was incapable of personal growth- because in his twisted worldview he was not responsible for anything that happened to him. He was a victim. Finally broken, and disillusioned after losing job after job, and never really "getting it", he lashed out one final time in despair and took his own life to make a point: I'm still not responsible for my behavior, not even willful, premeditated murder. I'm still a victim. totally agree. and he probably felt like a hero, doing it. a$$hole.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 18:13:19 GMT -5
How about this: I think many of you lefties here agree that mental health should be part of the criteria to determine whether someone can legally own a gun. If I am wrong- stop me here. OK, ready? Whatever restrictions we place on gun ownership, and whatever you have to do to purchase and carry a gun, you must follow the exact same procedure, and meet the exact same eligibility requirements...to vote. Deal? sure. i don't think the mentally ill should be able to vote. i am good with that restriction. your turn: you good with making all drugs legal for those with right minds? That's an easy one for me. I'm full-on libertarian on the "war on drugs" thing. In exchange, as long as we're solving the world's problems- no welfare, and drug use doesn't mitigate criminal responsibility. If you're high, you give up the insanity defense. Deal?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 18:14:21 GMT -5
That's actually a pretty good point. It's easy to say that he was "crazy" or "mentally ill", but not all aberrant behavior is a sign of insanity. He had obviously swallowed the steady stream of ideological brainwashing hook, line, and sinker. He couldn't see his own incompetence, he was incapable of personal growth- because in his twisted worldview he was not responsible for anything that happened to him. He was a victim. Finally broken, and disillusioned after losing job after job, and never really "getting it", he lashed out one final time in despair and took his own life to make a point: I'm still not responsible for my behavior, not even willful, premeditated murder. I'm still a victim. totally agree. and he probably felt like a hero, doing it. a$$hole. Wha...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 18:15:44 GMT -5
nope. didn't say that. but let's be honest- we were actually talking about gun control. You said, and I quoted it, that you didn't think the mentally ill should be able to vote. The discussion was about gun control until you tossed that in prompted by Paul's comment.
What are you defining as mentally ill?
You tell me. What do YOU think should preclude the possession of firearms?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 27, 2015 18:20:28 GMT -5
sure. i don't think the mentally ill should be able to vote. i am good with that restriction. your turn: you good with making all drugs legal for those with right minds? That's an easy one for me. I'm full-on libertarian on the "war on drugs" thing. In exchange, as long as we're solving the world's problems- no welfare, and drug use doesn't mitigate criminal responsibility. If you're high, you give up the insanity defense. Deal? incapacitated is not mentally ill? of course not. you are responsible for being incapacitated. let's leave welfare out of it for now, mmkay? no welfare for ME tho. i don't need it.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 18:20:19 GMT -5
And for those who think the tool does not matter as much as the intention to kill, again I disagree. Some people get killed in the heat of anger, if the tool is not so easy to access, then they do not have to fire once and regret forever.
It makes sense that handguns are used more often than rifles (harder to carry, conceal). That guns overall are used more than knifes. Look at the stats. If the tool didn't matter, what was used to murder people would be more varied. MO. Its starting to feel like using an argument that a bike is the same as a car. If he really wanted to go 30, 40, or 100 miles he'd be as likely to bike there. Not.
www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11
You can disagree, but you would be wrong. This happened Monday, and you don't even know about it because it does not fit the gun control agenda. I didn't know about it, either. Pretty high-profile guy. Should be a national news story. If found out about it after googling "knife attack". abovethelaw.com/2015/08/armed-assailant-is-shot-killed-after-courthouse-knife-attack/Authorities say that Curtis Smith — perhaps better known to the public as the man who allegedly jumped the White House fence in March 2015 — bolted past the metal detectors at the Chester County Justice Center in West Chester, Pennsylvania, pulled out a knife, and began stabbing a courthouse deputy. Here’s more info from local NBC: www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/breaking/Chester-County-Courthouse-Evacuation-322831651.html
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 18:23:36 GMT -5
That's an easy one for me. I'm full-on libertarian on the "war on drugs" thing. In exchange, as long as we're solving the world's problems- no welfare, and drug use doesn't mitigate criminal responsibility. If you're high, you give up the insanity defense. Deal? incapacitated is not mentally ill? of course not. you are responsible for being incapacitated. let's leave welfare out of it for now, mmkay? no welfare for ME tho. i don't need it. No can do. Big government and libertarianism are incompatible. Your lifestyle choices are YOUR choices unless or until they impact others, and in the case of welfare, if you can't or won't support yourself, the rest of us shouldn't have to if the reason is your decision to use drugs. That includes ObamaCare / Medicaid. I have a big problem with left-wing libertarianism-- free do do whatever you want, and give the bill to someone else. Can't agree to that.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 27, 2015 18:27:26 GMT -5
Deal. I really don't think you'll find as much opposition to this proposal as you assumed you would. It was proposed- several times, actually. Voted down by Democrats on every occasion. Their reasoning- which I find amusing- is that restricting "voting rights" is "unConstitutional". What's amusing about that you ask? Well, the right to keep and bear arms is explicit in the "Bill of Rights". However, in the entire US Constitution, nowhere is there an individual's "right to vote". Look it up.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 27, 2015 18:35:50 GMT -5
Live On TV, Watch Them Die
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 28, 2015 10:24:21 GMT -5
Do you know someone that you that has issues similar to Flanagan,
Yes, I do He is a big man, 6' 6" 260#, not fat! scares everyone around him when he goes off,
I have told him a couple of times "maybe you need to find another job"
He hates guns, but loves knives, Has told me about his knife fighting skills, there I know that made you feel better.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 28, 2015 10:45:37 GMT -5
Do you know someone that you that has issues similar to Flanagan, Yes, I do He is a big man, 6' 6" 260#, not fat! scares everyone around him when he goes off, I have told him a couple of times "maybe you need to find another job" He hates guns, but loves knives, Has told me about his knife fighting skills, there I know that made you feel better. This is bullshit. I'm only 6'3", I love guns, and I don't even work with you.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 28, 2015 10:52:32 GMT -5
I know an angry liberal powder keg. Two actually, but one I judge to be an actual threat. I want to be wrong about him, but I'd never take a chance with this guy. He's totally off the rails. He's always on Daily Kos and listening to Rachael Madcow- every chance he gets he posts incendiary things on facebook- for example, "It's too bad they didn't make it in" referring to the "ISIS Lions" that were shot by an off-duty meter maid outside the Texas "draw Mohammed" competition. He's got a bad temper, and his own family bodily ejected him from Christmas dinner the year before last- now, he just doesn't even come around anymore. I've known him since I was a kid, and he wasn't always like this. He always tilted left, but he believed the complete bullshit about George W. Bush "stealing" the election, and has stated publicly several times that he thinks the assassination of Republicans is justified because they are only elected through voter intimidation and systematic fraud through hacking electronic voting machines. He's a regular left wing Alex Jones.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 28, 2015 11:09:28 GMT -5
I know an angry Conservative powder keg. I judge him to be an actual threat. I'd never take a chance with this guy. He's totally off the rails. He even calls himself a freak. He's always on Brietbart and posts incendiary things on message boards. He's got a bad temper and even goes out of his way to scare little on ladies on the road. He's always tilted right and believes the complete bullshit of a "liberal caliphate." Does he sound familiar, Paul?
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 28, 2015 11:10:07 GMT -5
Paul the world has many fanatics.
I know a far right nut case. Retired cop. Carries his gun wherever he can and if not a big knife. Thinks Fox is an accurate source of news. Has said on ham radio (yes that's heard by many) that he'd kill President Obama, and if the law came on his property when he's shooting into the woods he'd shoot them. A retired cop who has no respect for the law or fellow officers!! Oh he was armed and ready to go to Baltimore during the riots. Armed and ready to come to a park here when he thought people were organizing a riot. It was an organized town festival. A woman cut him off on his motorcycle and he said on the radio that if he had his gun he's shoot out her car rear window. This man should not have a gun.
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