mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2015 14:30:22 GMT -5
As a lawyer, I don't know if Swamp has ever dealt with a rape case in court. But if she has, I imagine Swamp is well aware what the victim goes through in the court system. I have cross examined rape victims. I hate doing it. I've seen these victims in the ER - little puddles of women, often bloody and disoriented - terrified! Completing a rape kit takes hours - hours of reliving the horror and having your body literally taken over by yet another person. This is how it seems to the victim. Specially trained personnel are used to complete rape kits but that doesn't make the experience any easier for the victim. Rape isn't an experience that only happens to your body. It happens to your mind. It happens to your heart. It happens to your spirit. It is total immersion in horror. It's so very easy to say "Just report it" when you've never experienced it, or seen someone in the immediate aftermath of it. You have no idea. None.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 9, 2015 14:33:31 GMT -5
It may well "not be possible" for some women, but I can tell you from the experiences of friends/relatives: i) it is possible for an average-sized woman to grab a light bulb, smash it on a table, and threaten to slit the throat of a would-be rapist if he "takes one step closer", and have him run away, and ii) it is possible for a woman at a 1970's teenage party to be drugged, raped, and then muster up the courage to report it to a very skeptical law enforcement officer.
Hence I'm not going to fall back to "it's just not possible" to report rape as a standard. There must be an absurd disconnect between men and women here, because I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if a man drugged and raped me, my biggest problem would be finding the strength not to take an axe or a baseball bat to the guy. And barring that, he'd find himself facing criminal charges so fast his head would spin. If the officer taking down my report told me I deserved it, I'd be booked for assaulting a police officer because I'd put my fist through the guy's face. "Be[ing] able to think clearly about the next step" would be the least of my problems. Has anyone stopped to think that women might come to this site, read what other women have written, and become indoctrinated into the belief that reporting rape is so terrible that it's just not worth the risk? That's certainly what I'd take away from these threads if I didn't already have strong views on the subject. "It's not a responsibility. Nobody will believe you anyway. Even if they do, nothing will come of it. You'll struggle just to survive day to day. There's nothing wrong with just pretending it didn't happen." I prefer to hold the women who did come forward (Ms. Bowman and Ms. Constand) up as examples of women fulfilling their civic duty, rather than dote on the 101 reasons why we ought to forgive the other victims for never coming forward. Personally, that's the only way I ever see the barriers ever breaking down. But that's just me. Okay, it is possible for those things. I am 5 foot 4, and at that time weighed 108 pounds. I didn't have a chance to grab a light bulb, because when I didn't respond to his initial overtures, he slammed my on the bed, held be down and held a knife to my neck. Be it wrong or right, whenever I fought him off, he pushed the blade farther into my neck, his weight (he was about 6 foot 2, 220 pounds) -- weighted at least twice what I did) and then choked me with one arm, had me pinned down with his body weight and ripped my underpants off with his other hand. (I was wearing a dress -- we were supposed to be going to the leadership conference dance). Eventually I stopped fighting, he was inflicting so much pain, and convinced me he would continue to hurt me or even kill me. Again, I don't measure up to your definition of a woman that fulfills her civic duty. I think you did all that you could during the rape, and only you yourself know what you were and weren't capable of afterward. If you couldn't do it, you couldn't do it, and my saying "you should have..." until I'm blue in the face isn't going to change that. These discussions aren't about who should have done what in the past, they're about who should do what--how we should mentally prepare ourselves--for the future. That's the only profitable thing I see possibly coming out of these discussions.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2015 14:34:04 GMT -5
Thank you, vonna, for sharing your experience and the trauma you underwent at that time. I'm sure it's not easy to discuss it, here or anywhere.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 9, 2015 14:35:54 GMT -5
I have cross examined rape victims. I hate doing it. I've seen these victims in the ER - little puddles of women, often bloody and disoriented - terrified! Completing a rape kit takes hours - hours of reliving the horror and having your body literally taken over by yet another person. This is how it seems to the victim. Specially trained personnel are used to complete rape kits but that doesn't make the experience any easier for the victim. Rape isn't an experience that only happens to your body. It happens to your mind. It happens to your heart. It happens to your spirit. It is total immersion in horror. It's so very easy to say "Just report it" when you've never experienced it, or seen someone in the immediate aftermath of it. You have no idea. None. I just hope that anybody who goes through it in future won't have read anything you've written about it.
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 9, 2015 14:37:17 GMT -5
My deeper lament was more along the lines of: Why does a conviction matter more than the truth
Cause people are stupid. They tend to believe if he is found "not guilty" that means it didn't happen and the plaintiff is a liar. In reality it means there was enough reasonable doubt that the court couldn't convict, he still very well could have done it. Words are meaningless. He wasn't convincted therefore you're a liar case closed.
My MIL called a four year old girl "mentally ill" b/c she dared to speak the truth to her father. People were picketing the courts with all sorts of outrageous signs. My facebook page exploded with crap from my SIL about how horrible the little girl and father were for trying to ruin this man with their lies.
You want to think that just speaking the truth is enough and that doing the "right thing" will be enough but after watching from the sidelines I can't fault anyone who chooses not to come forward. You have to go thru all that crap and then there is still the good chance the person could walk. Talk about being victimized all over again.
Watching all that go down in my community was a total eye opener. I commend the father for coming forward and seeing things thru to the end. Not only did he protect his daughter but at the end of the day it was discovered he protected even more children.
It was a very brave thing to do.
That being said I am not going to condemn those who cannot face going thru that. I guess I don't value the greater good of society enough to force people to face that kind of harassment.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 9, 2015 14:37:36 GMT -5
When a woman has been raped, the first thing to pop into her mind isn't her civic duty. Of course, it's obvious to you and me that failure to report such a crime frees the perpetrator to go on hurting others. That's a no-brainer. We also like to assume he's caught and punished - which doesn't happen all that often. What people don't understand is that when someone has been hurt the way these women were hurt, it's very difficult to think beyond surviving the next day. Yes...sometimes it take years to come to grips with what has happened and to be able to think clearly about the next step. It may well "not be possible" for some women, but I can tell you from the experiences of friends/relatives: i) it is possible for an average-sized woman to grab a light bulb, smash it on a table, and threaten to slit the throat of a would-be rapist if he "takes one step closer", and have him run away, and ii) it is possible for a woman at a 1970's teenage party to be drugged, raped, and then muster up the courage to report it to a very skeptical law enforcement officer. Hence I'm not going to fall back to "it's just not possible" to report rape as a standard. There must be an absurd disconnect between men and women here, because I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if a man drugged and raped me, my biggest problem would be finding the strength not to take an axe or a baseball bat to the guy. And barring that, he'd find himself facing criminal charges so fast his head would spin. If the officer taking down my report told me I deserved it, I'd be booked for assaulting a police officer because I'd put my fist through the guy's face. "Be[ing] able to think clearly about the next step" would be the least of my problems. Has anyone stopped to think that women might come to this site, read what other women have written, and become indoctrinated into the belief that reporting rape is so terrible that it's just not worth the risk? That's certainly what I'd take away from these threads if I didn't already have strong views on the subject. "It's not a responsibility. Nobody will believe you anyway. Even if they do, nothing will come of it. You'll struggle just to survive day to day. There's nothing wrong with just pretending it didn't happen." I prefer to hold the women who did come forward (Ms. Bowman and Ms. Constand) up as examples of women fulfilling their civic duty, rather than dote on the 101 reasons why we ought to forgive the other victims for never coming forward. Personally, that's the only way I ever see the barriers ever breaking down. But that's just me.
Many feel the way you feel. I pray they never find out how very wrong that are about what is and isn't possible when a person is harmed in this manner. I understand those who came forward and I applaud them for their courage. I also understand that courage comes packaged in different boxes. I also applaud the courage of the women who fight every single day not to put a gun to their own head to end the pain. I applaud the courage of the women who get up in the morning and gets their kids off to school when all they really want to do is stay in bed with the covers over their head. I applaud the women who get up and go to work when the simple act of walking to their car strikes terror in their heart.
Every person is different. I think breaking down barriers will start with people truly understanding what this takes away from a woman. It's not like something that's over when the bruises heal. You don't just get better in a couple of weeks. I think you are trying....I really do. But I honestly believe you have no understanding of what this does to a person. And I'm very glad you don't. Just keep in mind that you don't fully understand. If you do that, you might be able to understand a little of why "saving the world" isn't always something everyone can do. I know you are trying.
In a perfect world....you might be right. This isn't a perfect world for victims of rape....or victims of any crime for that matter.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jul 9, 2015 14:39:22 GMT -5
I've seen these victims in the ER - little puddles of women, often bloody and disoriented - terrified! Completing a rape kit takes hours - hours of reliving the horror and having your body literally taken over by yet another person. This is how it seems to the victim. Specially trained personnel are used to complete rape kits but that doesn't make the experience any easier for the victim. Rape isn't an experience that only happens to your body. It happens to your mind. It happens to your heart. It happens to your spirit. It is total immersion in horror. It's so very easy to say "Just report it" when you've never experienced it, or seen someone in the immediate aftermath of it. You have no idea. None. I just hope that anybody who goes through it in future won't have read anything you've written about it. I disagree -- victims have the right to know how much MORE they will be victimized! Those that are strong enough to continue are amazing. The thing is, you need to work within the world that you are in.
Rape is So hard to prove, even with forensic evidence -- because it still ends up being a "he said, she said"
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 9, 2015 14:43:37 GMT -5
I disagree -- victims have the right to know how much MORE they will be victimized!
I agree. There needs to be discussion so people can see how F-ed up the system is in regards to rape cases. You can't fix what you don't see.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 9, 2015 14:46:00 GMT -5
so, would you agree that what we need is a system that protects women during the criminal process? or do you think that this is a social problem, and part of a "long arc" that is generational, and that nothing but time and attitudes will fix it? I'm not sure what could protect a woman during the evidence gathering process. I'm sure you know what needs to be done. Most places have specially trained staff for this procedure. It's no less invasive and nothing is going to make it so. Even the most gentle speculum and a swab is invasive at a time when you can't even stand to be touched. And that's if the rape was limited to vaginal. The most gentle combing of your most private places is still humiliating. It can be a long process - most often between 2 and 4 hours when all is said and done. All that woman wants is to go get a shower and be someplace private. It's a necessary evil and one that some women just can't face. I can't fault them for that because I'm not them.
I think we've come a long way regarding sensitivity training and professionals having more compassion, but there's just no way this isn't going to suck. the idea that occurred to me is that you could "jane doe" victims so that they would not be publicly shamed. however, that does not solve the interpersonal stuff. their family will know. their friends will probably know. and they will still have the invasive testing.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 9, 2015 14:48:00 GMT -5
I understand it just fine. It's a risk, a heartache, and an embarrassment. Doing the right thing isn't always easy. But duty is duty. Never compromise the standard. Women are not too weak or fragile to be held to that standard. Ugh. I don't even think I should respond in this thread. But, I will.
A good many women that have been raped are not "strong" enough to report the rape at a time when evidence can be collected. AND, even if evidence IS collected, it can still be a "he said, she said". Rape is VERY HARD to prove.
I was raped as a nineteen year old college student. I had been selected by my university to attend a leadership conference at another university. Each university that participated sent both their male and female "leader of the year". Well, the last night of the week long conference, I stupidly stepped into a male hotel room (we were heading to the dance that was being held on our last night) because he "forgot his wallet" and he quickly locked the door behind him, and when I didn't respond positively to his overtures, he grabbed my when I lunged for the door and brutally raped me (at knifepoint).
I was nineteen, in a place where I knew no one, and yes, Virgil, I did the wrong thing. I went back to my room crying, I showered, and the next day I boarded the bus to the airport to head back to my college. By the time I wrapped my head around what had happened to me, and what I should do, there was NO chance there would be ANY evidence that would back up what had happened.
So, yes, I was wrong to not report it, I was weak, I was probably many things. But I also had experienced something that fundamentally changed me and left me (at the time) a shell of the person I had been before. Some victims are robbed of their inner strength as well. I guess that makes me pretty small by your standards.
thanks for sharing, and sorry you had to endure all of that.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2015 14:48:23 GMT -5
I've seen these victims in the ER - little puddles of women, often bloody and disoriented - terrified! Completing a rape kit takes hours - hours of reliving the horror and having your body literally taken over by yet another person. This is how it seems to the victim. Specially trained personnel are used to complete rape kits but that doesn't make the experience any easier for the victim. Rape isn't an experience that only happens to your body. It happens to your mind. It happens to your heart. It happens to your spirit. It is total immersion in horror. It's so very easy to say "Just report it" when you've never experienced it, or seen someone in the immediate aftermath of it. You have no idea. None. I just hope that anybody who goes through it in future won't have read anything you've written about it. Anybody who goes through it in the future will definitely have to read, and be told, everything about it - over, and over, and over. They will be informed what is involved in every step, at the beginning and again before each step. They will be asked at each step if they wish to continue. I'm not going to play into the idea that knowing might frighten people away, Virgil. People are already frightened away. Most people are more frightened by what they don't know than by what they do know. It's the fear of everything they'll face that causes women not to report. The rape kit is only one of those fears and it is probably not the worst of them. Any trained rape kit nurse, or other trained rape kit personnel, knows to be gentle and caring but that doesn't change the fact the woman has been horribly traumatized and it wasn't by us! We're there to help but that help is difficult for the victim. Better to know what's coming and be prepared than to go in unprepared and break down completely in the face of the unexpected. To be frank, something needs to be done and it isn't to castigate the victims for "cowardice" (your word)! Any woman with half a brain already knows quite well how she's going to be viewed by far too many people with whom she'll come in contact if this crime is perpetrated on her person. We, in the hospital, must approach this with an eye to clinical detail. That, believe me, is not how the victim is seeing it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 9, 2015 14:48:31 GMT -5
I just hope that anybody who goes through it in future won't have read anything you've written about it. I disagree -- victims have the right to know how much MORE they will be victimized! Those that are strong enough to continue are amazing. The thing is, you need to work within the world that you are in.
Rape is So hard to prove, even with forensic evidence -- because it still ends up being a "he said, she said"
I'm simply pointing out, as objectively as possible, that if I was a reader coming into this thread without preconceptions, after reading mmhmm et. al.'s testimony, I would leave the thread thinking, "Being a rape victim really is a fate worse than death, and reporting the crime absolutely isn't worth it, nor is it my responsibility to report it." I think they mean well. I don't believe that's the message they intend to convey. But come into this thread as a blank slate, without preconceptions, and I guarantee you that's the message you'll leave with. I don't see that breaking down any barriers.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 9, 2015 14:50:42 GMT -5
I have cross examined rape victims. I hate doing it. I've seen these victims in the ER - little puddles of women, often bloody and disoriented - terrified! Completing a rape kit takes hours - hours of reliving the horror and having your body literally taken over by yet another person. This is how it seems to the victim. Specially trained personnel are used to complete rape kits but that doesn't make the experience any easier for the victim. Rape isn't an experience that only happens to your body. It happens to your mind. It happens to your heart. It happens to your spirit. It is total immersion in horror. It's so very easy to say "Just report it" when you've never experienced it, or seen someone in the immediate aftermath of it. You have no idea. None. mmhmm- i know this sounds crazy, but i want to "experience" that. is there someplace i can volunteer so that i can bear witness to this horror? as i have said before, it is pretty much impossible for me to appreciate it at a distance. but i don't want that distance. i don't want to admonish swamp for not reporting. i want to understand WHY this happens at the visceral level.
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 9, 2015 14:50:50 GMT -5
I disagree -- victims have the right to know how much MORE they will be victimized! Those that are strong enough to continue are amazing. The thing is, you need to work within the world that you are in.
Rape is So hard to prove, even with forensic evidence -- because it still ends up being a "he said, she said"
I'm simply pointing out, as objectively as possible, that if I was a reader coming into this thread without preconceptions, after reading mmhmm et. al.'s testimony, I would leave the thread thinking, "Being a rape victim really is a fate worse than death, and reporting the crime absolutely isn't worth it." I think they mean well. I don't believe that's the message they intend to convey. But come into this thread as a blank slate, without preconceptions, and I guarantee you that's the message you'll leave with. I don't see that breaking down any barriers. News Alert! We all already know what she said. We have either experienced it, know somebody who experienced it, or read about somebody who experienced it and if none of those apply we watch TV/Movies that show what the victim goes through. Not everybody lives in a nice, safe, uninformed bubble.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 9, 2015 14:52:22 GMT -5
Maybe it's just me, but I'd dang sure rather be prepared for what was going to happen than to have it sprung on me. I can't even imagine being hit with a surprise like that after everything else that had happened.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2015 14:57:06 GMT -5
I've seen these victims in the ER - little puddles of women, often bloody and disoriented - terrified! Completing a rape kit takes hours - hours of reliving the horror and having your body literally taken over by yet another person. This is how it seems to the victim. Specially trained personnel are used to complete rape kits but that doesn't make the experience any easier for the victim. Rape isn't an experience that only happens to your body. It happens to your mind. It happens to your heart. It happens to your spirit. It is total immersion in horror. It's so very easy to say "Just report it" when you've never experienced it, or seen someone in the immediate aftermath of it. You have no idea. None. mmhmm- i know this sounds crazy, but i want to "experience" that. is there someplace i can volunteer so that i can bear witness to this horror? as i have said before, it is pretty much impossible for me to appreciate it at a distance. but i don't want that distance. i don't want to admonish swamp for not reporting. i want to understand WHY this happens at the visceral level. Not that I know of, dj. Because of the nature of this procedure, as few people as possible are allowed anywhere near the victim. Our assigned rape kit nurse drew blood for the lab so the victim didn't have to deal with a phlebotomist from the lab. Everything possible is done by the assigned rape kit nurse to avoid having what might seem like a herd of strangers re-violating the poor woman. It's a very long and involved process that we do all we can to make as bearable as possible by providing all the privacy we're capable of providing. HERE is a link to an article on sexual assault forensics. If I find anything better, I'll link it here.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2015 14:58:16 GMT -5
I disagree -- victims have the right to know how much MORE they will be victimized! Those that are strong enough to continue are amazing. The thing is, you need to work within the world that you are in.
Rape is So hard to prove, even with forensic evidence -- because it still ends up being a "he said, she said"
I'm simply pointing out, as objectively as possible, that if I was a reader coming into this thread without preconceptions, after reading mmhmm et. al.'s testimony, I would leave the thread thinking, "Being a rape victim really is a fate worse than death, and reporting the crime absolutely isn't worth it, nor is it my responsibility to report it." I think they mean well. I don't believe that's the message they intend to convey. But come into this thread as a blank slate, without preconceptions, and I guarantee you that's the message you'll leave with. I don't see that breaking down any barriers. Since you're not a woman and have never experienced this, Virgil, you can't "guarantee" anyone anything.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 9, 2015 15:00:41 GMT -5
I've seen these victims in the ER - little puddles of women, often bloody and disoriented - terrified! Completing a rape kit takes hours - hours of reliving the horror and having your body literally taken over by yet another person. This is how it seems to the victim. Specially trained personnel are used to complete rape kits but that doesn't make the experience any easier for the victim. Rape isn't an experience that only happens to your body. It happens to your mind. It happens to your heart. It happens to your spirit. It is total immersion in horror. It's so very easy to say "Just report it" when you've never experienced it, or seen someone in the immediate aftermath of it. You have no idea. None. mmhmm- i know this sounds crazy, but i want to "experience" that. is there someplace i can volunteer so that i can bear witness to this horror? as i have said before, it is pretty much impossible for me to appreciate it at a distance. but i don't want that distance. i don't want to admonish swamp for not reporting. i want to understand WHY this happens at the visceral level. Go sit in on a rape trial. That should be an eye opener for you.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 9, 2015 15:01:16 GMT -5
I disagree -- victims have the right to know how much MORE they will be victimized! Those that are strong enough to continue are amazing. The thing is, you need to work within the world that you are in.
Rape is So hard to prove, even with forensic evidence -- because it still ends up being a "he said, she said"
I'm simply pointing out, as objectively as possible, that if I was a reader coming into this thread without preconceptions, after reading mmhmm et. al.'s testimony, I would leave the thread thinking, "Being a rape victim really is a fate worse than death, and reporting the crime absolutely isn't worth it, nor is it my responsibility to report it." I think they mean well. I don't believe that's the message they intend to convey. But come into this thread as a blank slate, without preconceptions, and I guarantee you that's the message you'll leave with. I don't see that breaking down any barriers.
I actually don't mind if that's how I' read, I guess. I understand when women report it. I understand when they don't. Its up to the individual. I have no intention of demonizing those who make a different choice than I would make. And I'm a huge proponent of knowing what the consequences of your choice will be once you make it.
Obviously, nobody wants a rapist to be able to continue raping. But guess what? If it's not him, it will be another. Sad but true fact of life. No matter what anyone does....there is always going to be another waiting in the weeds. I'm certainly not going to pretend that if a woman decides to come forward, she has saved the world....because she hasn't. I would absolutely, if I'm asked, encourage a woman to report the crime. I would do so because I think there is some closure in the event the rapist is caught and incarcerated....not because of some overblown notion they are saving the world.
I hate being that cynical but that's just the way it is.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 9, 2015 15:01:34 GMT -5
A regular exam is uncomfortable and invasive enough as it is. if I could I'd invent a test so I'd never have to have a lady exam again as long as i live. I can't imagine having to do an even longer more invasive exam, especially right after I've been assulted in hte worst way possible.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 9, 2015 15:02:39 GMT -5
I'm simply pointing out, as objectively as possible, that if I was a reader coming into this thread without preconceptions, after reading mmhmm et. al.'s testimony, I would leave the thread thinking, "Being a rape victim really is a fate worse than death, and reporting the crime absolutely isn't worth it." I think they mean well. I don't believe that's the message they intend to convey. But come into this thread as a blank slate, without preconceptions, and I guarantee you that's the message you'll leave with. I don't see that breaking down any barriers. News Alert! We all already know what she said. We have either experienced it, know somebody who experienced it, or read about somebody who experienced it and if none of those apply we watch TV/Movies that show what the victim goes through. Not everybody lives in a nice, safe, uninformed bubble. You're not the only ones here. The lurkers and guests on our site outnumber the actives 50:1. If you say "undertaking a rape kit is like being raped again", assume that not everybody reading that statement now or in future can read between the lines to infer "...but you need to undergo a rape test".
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2015 15:03:19 GMT -5
mmhmm- i know this sounds crazy, but i want to "experience" that. is there someplace i can volunteer so that i can bear witness to this horror? as i have said before, it is pretty much impossible for me to appreciate it at a distance. but i don't want that distance. i don't want to admonish swamp for not reporting. i want to understand WHY this happens at the visceral level. Go sit in on a rape trial. That should be an eye opener for you. Really great idea, swamp! That's gotta be a nightmare!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 9, 2015 15:04:04 GMT -5
I'm simply pointing out, as objectively as possible, that if I was a reader coming into this thread without preconceptions, after reading mmhmm et. al.'s testimony, I would leave the thread thinking, "Being a rape victim really is a fate worse than death, and reporting the crime absolutely isn't worth it, nor is it my responsibility to report it." I think they mean well. I don't believe that's the message they intend to convey. But come into this thread as a blank slate, without preconceptions, and I guarantee you that's the message you'll leave with. I don't see that breaking down any barriers. Since you're not a woman and have never experienced this, Virgil, you can't "guarantee" anyone anything. I can guarantee that. It has nothing to do with being a woman or a rape victim. Quite the opposite, being a blank slate excludes the possibility of the reader being a rape victim.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 9, 2015 15:04:23 GMT -5
News Alert! We all already know what she said. We have either experienced it, know somebody who experienced it, or read about somebody who experienced it and if none of those apply we watch TV/Movies that show what the victim goes through. Not everybody lives in a nice, safe, uninformed bubble. You're not the only ones here. The lurkers and guests on our site outnumber the actives 50:1.If you say "undertaking a rape kit is like being raped again", assume that not everybody reading that statement now or in future can read between the lines to infer "...but you need to undergo a rape test". I'm aware of all of them too and was including them in my comment when I said "we". I think our lurkers and guests are also informed of the horrors of rape reporting especially if they are women.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 9, 2015 15:06:03 GMT -5
A regular exam is uncomfortable and invasive enough as it is. if I could I'd invent a test so I'd never have to have a lady exam again as long as i live. I can't imagine having to do an even longer more invasive exam, especially right after I've been assulted in hte worst way possible. Hey, not only are swabs taken of your vagina and labia, they swab your anus too! Two uncomfortable probes for the price of one.
Then they take your clothes into evidence and cut samples from them. Sorry if you liked those underwear, they're gone now.
And then you can answer all sorts of personal questions about who you've had sex with and when, because they need to know whose semen they may find.
Sounds like fun to me!
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 9, 2015 15:07:52 GMT -5
Did anybody mention the many pictures of your privates often taken by a guy? There was a report about a year or so? where a cop was passing such pictures around to his buddies. Good times! Where can I go to have all of this fun?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2015 15:08:33 GMT -5
News Alert! We all already know what she said. We have either experienced it, know somebody who experienced it, or read about somebody who experienced it and if none of those apply we watch TV/Movies that show what the victim goes through. Not everybody lives in a nice, safe, uninformed bubble. You're not the only ones here. The lurkers and guests on our site outnumber the actives 50:1. If you say "undertaking a rape kit is like being raped again", assume that not everybody reading that statement now or in future can read between the lines to infer "...but you need to undergo a rape test". The lurkers and guests are going to read that which they already know, Virgil. Rape is hell. Pure hell, and it keeps on giving its gift of fear, pain, shame, and indignity.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 9, 2015 15:10:10 GMT -5
mmhmm- i know this sounds crazy, but i want to "experience" that. is there someplace i can volunteer so that i can bear witness to this horror? as i have said before, it is pretty much impossible for me to appreciate it at a distance. but i don't want that distance. i don't want to admonish swamp for not reporting. i want to understand WHY this happens at the visceral level. Not that I know of, dj. Because of the nature of this procedure, as few people as possible are allowed anywhere near the victim. Our assigned rape kit nurse drew blood for the lab so the victim didn't have to deal with a phlebotomist from the lab. Everything possible is done by the assigned rape kit nurse to avoid having what might seem like a herd of strangers re-violating the poor woman. It's a very long and involved process that we do all we can to make as bearable as possible by providing all the privacy we're capable of providing. HERE is a link to an article on sexual assault forensics. If I find anything better, I'll link it here. i didn't mean the "evidence gathering" part- i just meant IN GENERAL.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2015 15:11:00 GMT -5
Did anybody mention the many pictures of your privates often taken by a guy? There was a report about a year or so? where a cop was passing such pictures around to his buddies. Good times! Where can I go to have all of this fun? Our rape kit nurses took those pictures and they were never male, if the victim was female. All the evidence is turned over to the crime lab. If there's a leak there, somebody needs to be fired!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 9, 2015 15:11:38 GMT -5
Virgil....I don't think anything has been said here that people don't already know. It's not a secret. I do understand what you are saying and I don't disagree the process discourages women to report rapes. That's what we've been saying. But...outlining it here isn't telling people something they don't already know.
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