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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2015 7:44:25 GMT -5
It's difficult to tell timeline from the article, but that was pre-treatment and does not seem to be his new school.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Feb 18, 2015 8:34:03 GMT -5
So in his "second chance" he still has acces to a computer and a facebook account aparently. How about no electronics, an ankle bracelet while at clases(even a shock collar if necessary) parents drop him to school, parents pick him up, parents be mandated to turn in their weapons while the kid is still in school. Nowadays kids DO have to many rights and they are not asked for anything in return. How about some respect for others? You disagree with a teacher or a classmate? Fine, but be polite about it. You don't have to throw tantrums.
Or there is the alternative: allow his teachers to administer punishments if necessary!
road to recovery can be a bitch!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 18, 2015 8:38:42 GMT -5
Someone else's child can be used for this social experiment. Parents obviously knew child was mentally off but kept weapons where he could access them. Not responsible parenting. I don't trust the parents and I sure don't trust the kid. Why should a coach or other players risk their safety so this kid can be around others? He's proven more than once he doesn't know how to play well with others. I want the ones recommending his socialization to step up to the plate and offer their children and themselves to mentor and be his buddies.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2015 8:53:37 GMT -5
Glad you all and your kids are above reproach. I personally don't believe in writing off 14-15 year olds, at least not on the info provided. Not even close.
It it seems to me others go out of their way to show they don't play well either. but again it's interesting how we socialize and approve certain behavior which ultimately is little distinguishable from what we say we despise....
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 18, 2015 9:04:32 GMT -5
There's kids like him probably out there. I also agree with an educational institution where he could be educated, along with others like him, but kept safely away from others. He's entitled to an education. He's not entitled to harm others. If you're not willing to step up to the plate and offer your own children as a sacrifice, you have no business asking others to.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 18, 2015 9:06:50 GMT -5
I'd like to know which meds they had him on when that happened. I'd like to know what interrogation methods resulted in the dual confessions. So at 14, under the power of antidepressants and adhd meds being administered with no form of talk therapy, and apparently o special education, the kid made an error which labels him for life? Seriously? Hes had two years of intensive intervention. He's still only 16. i can't see anywhere in the OP article where he is the lost cause you all are labeling him. i also don't see how they area use turning him away. He has the right to a free and appropriate education... They have to offer an acceptable alternative... ? Do you honestly believe the same school system that you have so little faith in that you've chosen to homeschool you child is equipped to handle this individual and keep the other kids safe? Sorry, your own actions already tell me you're talking out of both sides of your mouth on this one. Plus, he gave up any "rights" to a free and appropriate education when he broke the law by threatening murder. Same as any other criminal. Guns in schools, repeat that and imagine your kid sitting next to him. A 14yo knows that you don't screw around with guns. Hell DD is 12 and she is well aware of what would happen if she ever tried to pull any of that shit. And no, they don't HAVE to offer anything. There is no law that states society has to accommodate every person for every reason in every circumstance.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 18, 2015 9:06:58 GMT -5
None of these were "simple mistakes" btw. If you don't know not to bring guns to school or threaten to blow up things on the Internet, you're more than a "simple mistake," you're nuts.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Feb 18, 2015 9:27:46 GMT -5
A child, is a child ultimately. Easily influenced or directed. They will copy or do what an adult does. That's how they learn. Even adults do that.
Where are his parents standing on all this? Are we sure the psychiatrist studied the right person? What kind of a parent stands by and let's his own child get in trouble that will mark him for the rest of his life? I'm assuming that they were told that their child has unusual behavior and makes threats and brought guns to school yet what they did was move across the state. That's it! No restrictions, no disciplining. Sure, the child has to be in some way monitored/verified constantly as to make sure that he brings no harm to others and carries out his promises of killing and such but the parents should do more than just pay for his meds.
I Personaly feel responsible for whatever my children do or say but this people seem to be at the opposite end of the spectrum.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 18, 2015 9:54:48 GMT -5
A child, is a child ultimately. Easily influenced or directed. They will copy or do what an adult does. That's how they learn. Even adults do that. Where are his parents standing on all this? Are we sure the psychiatrist studied the right person? What kind of a parent stands by and let's his own child get in trouble that will mark him for the rest of his life? I'm assuming that they were told that their child has unusual behavior and makes threats and brought guns to school yet what they did was move across the state. That's it! No restrictions, no disciplining. Sure, the child has to be in some way monitored/verified constantly as to make sure that he brings no harm to others and carries out his promises of killing and such but the parents should do more than just pay for his meds. I Personaly feel responsible for whatever my children do or say but this people seem to be at the opposite end of the spectrum. You seem to be aware of a great many intimate details involved in this situation.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 18, 2015 10:33:48 GMT -5
i also don't see how they area use turning him away. He has the right to a free and appropriate education
Zero tolerance policies say otherwise. He brought an actual gun to school and stated he was going to cause a mass shooting. He isn't a kid who made a finger gun or forgot that his pocket knife was in his back pack.
I'm pretty sure the kid in the OP is the type of situation zero tolerance policies are actually intended for.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 18, 2015 10:39:40 GMT -5
... I'd just minimize the risk to the defenseless if I could.... The trick is figuring out exactly how to do that. Does isolating this kid do that? Enroll the kid, require that parent deliver him directly to the office each day, pat down for weapons, parent picks him up at the end of the day. Could be, I suppose. It's obviously better than nothing and at least an idea. You are at least coming up with some alternatives which is better than those of us who just say this isn't right without putting forth what we think is. I'm sure you know, tho, that it's most likely that his parents would throw a fit about this, right? Basically putting their kid in a prison-like situation with daily pat downs? If they had any sense to begin with, they'd know public school isn't a good idea, so I don't hold out much hope they'd accept your alternative even though I think that if he has to be there, yours is a good plan. Having said all that, I'd still remove my child from that school. I fully understand there are dangers we can't see, but I can promise you'd I take my family as far away from the dangers I can see just as fast as I could. It's a hard thing. I hope he gets better and goes on to live a productive and happy life. I just wouldn't put my kid on his path to recovery in case he veers. ETA: My above statement about his parents was unfair. I absolutely believe they should not ask that others assume such a risk, but them doing so doesn't make them bad people. If it were my child, I may very well hope that his issues have been resolved and would want him to have a normal teenage life also. I don't know that I wouldn't do the same things they are doing.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Feb 18, 2015 11:01:24 GMT -5
Disturbed people do disturbing things. Yesterday, you said keep him out of the school. That would mean he's out on the street (and away from a scheduled environment) with even more idle time on his hands - and still with the same issues.
I asked you yesterday in post #69 what your best case solution would be for everyone (including the young man) in this (or a similar) situation.
This is all you have to add?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 18, 2015 11:19:48 GMT -5
HERE IS the article that states the boy failed an online course somewhere along the line. The following is a statement from another article about this situation: "Spencer Ore was 15 when he took a loaded .357 Magnum revolver and an unloaded .22-caliber pistol to Harrison School in 2013. He enrolled in Twin Bridges in mid-November and is taking classes electronically." Don't know when he failed the first course mentioned in the first article and there's nothing that tells how he's doing taking electronic courses now. He is, however, being offered alternative education possibilities.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Feb 18, 2015 11:48:57 GMT -5
You seem to be aware of a great many intimate details involved in this situation. Au contraire! I didn't even read the article, all is just assumption or if I may "wonderings" I do recall however that as a child if I got in trouble at school there was bigger trouble home and I'm not talking about corporeal punishment. We had a litle pile of stones/bricks/block chunks weighing about two ton on the property in a corner. Dad would come to me and say : " I need these moved on the other end(about 300') so I can use them as fill" and he'd walk away. That move repeated countless times, once for each time I was causing trouble I disobeyed the man once and for that he smacked my bottom twice with his palm and then imediatly tied me to a tree with a chain. Gave me a bowl of water though! Stayed there for a couple hours. Never, ever did I do it again! Mom on the other hand would just grab the broom and give me a couple wacks while I was trying to run away. Last fall when we visited she had an inkling to do it again because she taught that I was being harsh on my sister. And I am 47 yrs old. Our parents tried to instill in us respect for others and ourselves. I'm trying to do the same for my children(hopefully without the need of a chain or broom) and so far we succeeded.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 18, 2015 11:55:53 GMT -5
You seem to be aware of a great many intimate details involved in this situation. Au contraire! I didn't even read the article, all is just assumption or if I may "wonderings" ... it did seem to come from absolute ignorance.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Feb 18, 2015 12:12:50 GMT -5
Billis, you provoked me and I read the article! it seems to me that he parents and child did just about anything within their power. Well, with the exception of "blow up" threat. In this new light, I tend to see the other parents as unreasonable but on the other hand, can one blame them? The doctors declared this kid "unstable". How is one supose to react at that?
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Feb 18, 2015 13:26:24 GMT -5
In a case like theirs, as a parent I would voluntarily surrender my weapons to the Police Dept, escort the child to and from school and agree to a tracking device on the youngster. That would be aimed at "proving" that we as parents and the child are willing to do anything to be entrusted with being arround others. Even random checks of the domicile by the Police Dept or Sherif wouldn't be out of question if that is what it takes. If after all this, the Comunity still denies my kids's right to an education, well in that case I wouldn't wanna live there. Too many stuborn, self righteous people in the same place and that is not a place to live your life.
I can't help but wonder how did those that sued against admission of child in school come to know about his troubled past?
Is it the "internets"? Damn you Al Gore!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 18, 2015 14:09:02 GMT -5
mroped, glad you read. I see you read the word "unstable". Now, let's put that single word into the context it was used. I am going to highlight things in the passage from the article linked in the OP. Spencer's parents said he was on antidepressants and medication for attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder when he took a loaded .357 Magnum and unloaded .22 handgun to Harrison High School on Jan. 25, 2013.
A peer told the principal about the weapons in Spencer's backpack as the school bell was ringing just after 3 p.m.
Psychiatrists have since told his parents that the combination of those drugs, along with his then-undiagnosed bipolar disorder, could potentially make him unstable.
...
Along with mood-stabilizing medication to treat bipolar disorder, psychiatrists prescribed Spencer something else: social interaction, specifically at school. So it was the drugs he previously was on plus absence of another drug that made him "unstable".
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Feb 18, 2015 14:44:01 GMT -5
Was not the absence of a drug but the undiagnosed bipolar disorder in combination with the antidepressant that made him " potentially" unstable. Basically the shrinks are saying that "if you let us dope your kid to no end, we could make him a good person" so more drugs is their answer. Why are this people recognized as doctors? A priest can do more for you than these quacks and at least the priest doesn't try to sell you drugs( maybe God a litle).
people as a group tend to be short sighted and if anywhere in the reports they read "unstable" that's what they get! Who cares about follow ups? Are trying to tell us that yet another drug will fix him? How trusted is this drug? How much can we trust that would have desired results? And the questions have no end.
Best I consider that the parents and child head the problem by making open concessions to the Comunity and make that in a public way.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 18, 2015 14:52:57 GMT -5
... people as a group tend to be short sighted and if anywhere in the reports they read "unstable" that's what they get! ... Yes they are.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Feb 18, 2015 22:40:16 GMT -5
Did we read the same link? Nothing was said about him being "under the power" of anti-depressants.
ADHD meds were also not mentioned. (For the record, my nephew has ADHD - never was he on anti-depressants, and any medications he was on for his condition at that age would never have pushed him to do something like this).
The youth in the link is diagnosed as bi-polar. And he was having "talk therapy" as you call it. He'd already been under Psychiactric treatment and counseling.
And he didn't just "make an error" - like shoplifting or vandalism - he swiped one of his parent's weapons and carried it to school - who knows what his intent was? Fortunately no blood was shed.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 18, 2015 23:51:22 GMT -5
... ADHD meds were also not mentioned. ... Spencer's parents said he was on antidepressants and medication for attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder ... (from link in the OP)
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Feb 18, 2015 23:59:38 GMT -5
ADHD meds were also not mentioned. Spencer's parents said he was on antidepressants and medication for attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder ... (from link in the OP) Ok - I missed that bit of info. But still, ADHD meds shouldn't have an effect on someone to cause them to do what this kid did.
Perhaps it was a combination of the anti-depressants & ADHD meds, and even dosage strength, but my money is on the anti-depressants causing him act out to such an extent.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 19, 2015 0:03:09 GMT -5
Spencer's parents said he was on antidepressants and medication for attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder ... (from link in the OP) Ok - I missed that bit of info. But still, ADHD meds shouldn't have an effect on someone to cause them to do what this kid did.
Perhaps it was a combination of the anti-depressants & ADHD meds, and even dosage strength, but my money is on the anti-depressants causing him act out to such an extent. ADHD meds, coupled with an antidepressant, in the presence of undiagnosed bipolar disorder? That's a nasty combination in my book.
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