busymom
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Post by busymom on Feb 17, 2015 12:37:14 GMT -5
It's called public school people. It not only admits, but is compulsory to the public... If you want to avoid the public, may I suggest YOU consider home/cyber school? I'm going to disagree. (I'm also going to sound like my Dad.) When I was a student, about the worse thing that happened inside the school building was an upperclassman dumping your books. Any fights took place after school, outside the building. I think kids (and parents) should have the reasonable expectation that when students are inside a school building, they are there to safely learn, & it should be a violence-free zone. Any violent student should be permanently barred from receiving a public education. Yes, public education is compulsory here, but many nations outside of our country consider it a privilege to receive an education.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 17, 2015 12:41:05 GMT -5
when school officials told them last month that some parents were encouraging their kids to provoke him in order to get him expelled
I read this in the article and if that's the case then it's probably better that he not return. These parents are idiots.
To actively encourage your kids to bully him in the hopes he snaps is messed up.
I can understand being hesitant about him returning to the school, trust is hard to rebuild and this is one of those things where I don't blame people for not taking everybody's word for it that the kid is fine now.
But to actively encourage bullying is wrong. You can express your concerns without resorting to encouraging your kid to be hurtful towards others.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 17, 2015 12:46:51 GMT -5
when school officials told them last month that some parents were encouraging their kids to provoke him in order to get him expelled
I read this in the article and if that's the case then it's probably better that he not return. These parents are idiots.
To actively encourage your kids to bully him in the hopes he snaps is messed up.
I can understand being hesitant about him returning to the school, trust is hard to rebuild and this is one of those things where I don't blame people for not taking everybody's word for it that the kid is fine now.
But to actively encourage bullying is wrong. You can express your concerns without resorting to encouraging your kid to be hurtful towards others. Lets push this guy to the limit to make him snap so we can show how dangerous he is.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 17, 2015 12:47:36 GMT -5
It's called public school people. It not only admits, but is compulsory to the public... If you want to avoid the public, may I suggest YOU consider home/cyber school? I'm going to disagree. (I'm also going to sound like my Dad.) When I was a student, about the worse thing that happened inside the school building was an upperclassman dumping your books. Any fights took place after school, outside the building. I think kids (and parents) should have the reasonable expectation that when students are inside a school building, they are there to safely learn, & it should be a violence-free zone. Any violent student should be permanently barred from receiving a public education. Yes, public education is compulsory here, but many nations outside of our country consider it a privilege to receive an education. where did you go to school where there weren't any fights? We had them all the time.
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Feb 17, 2015 12:57:07 GMT -5
That's terrible Marley. How are the parents? Are they amenable to alternatives? I guess the father is a teacher in another district and DH set up a meeting with himself, the parents and the pricipal. The day of the principal acted like she didn't even know there was a meeting and didn't know what was going on She's a total bitch and nothing ended up getting resolved. I keep the fridge stocked with Guinness for DH, so there's that... (He will have a beer or two ) Not to make light, I feel terrible for DH because while he doesn't complain I know it's a stressful situation for him I hope this principal retires soon for the sanity of the teachers.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 17, 2015 13:10:21 GMT -5
when school officials told them last month that some parents were encouraging their kids to provoke him in order to get him expelled
I read this in the article and if that's the case then it's probably better that he not return. These parents are idiots.
To actively encourage your kids to bully him in the hopes he snaps is messed up.
I can understand being hesitant about him returning to the school, trust is hard to rebuild and this is one of those things where I don't blame people for not taking everybody's word for it that the kid is fine now.
But to actively encourage bullying is wrong. You can express your concerns without resorting to encouraging your kid to be hurtful towards others. Lets push this guy to the limit to make him snap so we can show how dangerous he is. No kidding. I don't think they thought thru exactly what their "proof" might entail.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 17, 2015 13:13:47 GMT -5
I would encourage people to Goggle Harrison Montana to get a better sense of the situation we are talking about.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 17, 2015 13:19:01 GMT -5
I would encourage people to Goggle Harrison Montana to get a better sense of the situation we are talking about. Probably not even a 'Caution' road sign in town, let alone a red light..
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Feb 17, 2015 13:20:18 GMT -5
Swamp, I attended a public school in a large city. I think the difference now is, when I was in school the teachers were NOT shy about yelling at the kids who misbehaved, & the district wasn't afraid to get rid of the trouble-makers. (And, if a kid got detention, their parents made SURE they showed up). Now, the kids have "rights", the parents side with their trouble-maker kids, rather than making them tow the line.
And yes, the kids REALLY scheduled their fights for after school. What a different world, huh?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 17, 2015 13:21:53 GMT -5
I would encourage people to Goggle Harrison Montana to get a better sense of the situation we are talking about. Probably not even a 'Caution' road sign in town, let alone a red light.. Not just in town, but within fifty miles.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Feb 17, 2015 13:24:59 GMT -5
I'm going to disagree. (I'm also going to sound like my Dad.) When I was a student, about the worse thing that happened inside the school building was an upperclassman dumping your books. Any fights took place after school, outside the building. I think kids (and parents) should have the reasonable expectation that when students are inside a school building, they are there to safely learn, & it should be a violence-free zone. Any violent student should be permanently barred from receiving a public education. Yes, public education is compulsory here, but many nations outside of our country consider it a privilege to receive an education. where did you go to school where there weren't any fights? We had them all the time. I went to a school(high school) like that! Was similar with a boarding school but with military regulation. Not everybody got to go to a good highschool since ADMITANCE was based on a writen and physical aptitude exam. Very selective! Those in the senior year were kinda "in charge" with maintaining discipline. Bullying was not accepted, not even optional, nothing! All disputes(those that were geting out of hand) were settled in the ring or a physical confrontation on the mat. Winner takes all type but no bragging rights, just closure. The trick was that teachers were not held responsible for the "passing/failling" of students. You were there to study and that was it. Don't wanna work hard and keep up with the rest? Tough luck, there are schools that would "work with you" Or you could repeat the year(say 11th grade) as many as three times acording to the law. Failing the year could've been as result of not having a passing grade for any objects of study. There was no order of importance. Or it could've been for BEHAVIOR. Yeah, that's rigt! We had a grade for behavior on a system of 1 to 10 and you had to maintain at least a 7 to pass. Could've been ducked points on behavior for being repeatedly late for class or just rude behavior towards the teachers. The state had also "special needs" schools with enough personel to handle anything comming. A child like the one in this case would've ended up in a juvenile educational facility, not detention. At 18 or upon graduation the record was expunged and the youngster drafted (mandatory drafting country) for military service.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Feb 17, 2015 13:29:49 GMT -5
Probably not even a 'Caution' road sign in town, let alone a red light.. Not just in town, but within fifty miles. Good point. The town is in the middle of nowhere and has a total population of 162 as of the 2000 census.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 17, 2015 13:40:30 GMT -5
I'd move if the community is that insular. You're never going to get those people to let the kid back into the local school.
If they moved someplace bigger he'd have some anonymity and be able to "start over" if that is what the parents desire.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 17, 2015 13:47:51 GMT -5
Swamp, I attended a public school in a large city. I think the difference now is, when I was in school the teachers were NOT shy about yelling at the kids who misbehaved, & the district wasn't afraid to get rid of the trouble-makers. (And, if a kid got detention, their parents made SURE they showed up). Now, the kids have "rights", the parents side with their trouble-maker kids, rather than making them tow the line.
And yes, the kids REALLY scheduled their fights for after school. What a different world, huh? I wnent to a public HS in a rural setting. The teachers weren't shy about breaking up fights, and consequences were imposed, but there will still fights. When you see mom and dad physically fight regularly, as well as your neighbors and rest of the family, you conflict resolution skills aren't well developed.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 17, 2015 13:53:56 GMT -5
It's called public school people. It not only admits, but is compulsory to the public... If you want to avoid the public, may I suggest YOU consider home/cyber school? I don't agree. Why should the vast majority have to drastically change their lives so that one kid who is obviously a danger to society can go to basketball games and "hang out" with his friends? That doesn't make any sense to me. This is a no-brainer to me. Yes. It is a public school. That doesn't mean they should have to let in kids who have a history of nutcase behavior. Kids are expelled from school all the time. Being a public school doesn't mean you don't get to exclude those who disrupt or endanger the education and safety of others. They are, most likely, on the hook for expenses for his alternative education but that doesn't mean they have to let him get it there. This isnt' a kid who got caught cussing on the playground. This is a kid who brought guns to school, This is a kid who talked on social media about blowing people up. You want you kid sitting next to him? Go ahead and write the family a letter saying he's welcome to hang with your kids. He wouldn't be hanging with mine. This just pisses me off. We've (not you oped - just society in general) gone waaaaaaaaay too far with this warm and fuzzy shit in this country. How's it working for us?
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Feb 17, 2015 13:57:37 GMT -5
My wife teaches a classroom full of these kids. There are schools for just such a young man where he can hang out with new friends and get all the counseling he needs. Of course he would be in a secure facility with a 16-ft high fence around the basketball court and 24/7 supervision. Sadly it's not an isolated case, and every state has kids like this to work with. His parents may not like it, but the court system usually has the final say.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 17, 2015 16:13:43 GMT -5
My wife teaches a classroom full of these kids. There are schools for just such a young man where he can hang out with new friends and get all the counseling he needs. Of course he would be in a secure facility with a 16-ft high fence around the basketball court and 24/7 supervision. Sadly it's not an isolated case, and every state has kids like this to work with. His parents may not like it, but the court system usually has the final say. He spent time at such a facility as dictated by a court. He did his time, got the counseling, and now .... ?
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Feb 17, 2015 16:30:53 GMT -5
My wife teaches a classroom full of these kids. There are schools for just such a young man where he can hang out with new friends and get all the counseling he needs. Of course he would be in a secure facility with a 16-ft high fence around the basketball court and 24/7 supervision. Sadly it's not an isolated case, and every state has kids like this to work with. His parents may not like it, but the court system usually has the final say. He spent time at such a facility as dictated by a court. He did his time, got the counseling, and now .... ? I didn't read the story, but if he worked his way out of the system, good for him. I'd let him back in class. No different than a prisoner getting out, give them a chance to make a contribution to society, I believe in second chances.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 17, 2015 16:42:26 GMT -5
This is the kind of thing that literally boggles the mind. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. I wouldn't want my child in a class with someone who could actually be a danger to them; yet, I do feel badly for the child and his/her parents, too. There just don't seem to be any right answers for this situation at this point. It seems to me to be something that needs to be addressed and a solution found. What that solution would be, I don't have a clue.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 17, 2015 17:07:18 GMT -5
Again, the danger does not go away because this kid is not allowed to enroll in school. I can see the possibility that not allowing him to enroll actually increases the danger he poses to students.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 17, 2015 17:08:18 GMT -5
I am really getting sick of all the "compassion" being for the wrong doers and neer do wells and the rulebreakers. Enough. How about some compassion of the good kids that do what they are supposed to do and follow the rules?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 17, 2015 17:11:21 GMT -5
Now the military doesn't want or need trouble makers. More people want in than they can take so they can be picky. I still think when parents stopped disciplining and started befriending their children and schools went right along with this BS, it started a trend that we are, as a society, reaping the rewards of. I still have a memory of our tiny asst principal walking down the hall with some huge student holding said student by the earlobe? On the way to the office where I'm sure the parents were going to be called. No lawsuit being filed and student came back sadder but wiser in his behavior. There were guns unsecured in my parents room. I would have never dreamed of going in there and doing anything with them. You didn't touch what didn't belong to you-ever. Limits and boundaries were not dirty words that damaged self esteem.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 17, 2015 17:13:48 GMT -5
I am really getting sick of all the "compassion" being for the wrong doers and neer do wells and the rulebreakers. Enough. How about some compassion of the good kids that do what they are supposed to do and follow the rules? That left the schools a long time ago. Now we reward kids for breathing. Trouble with that is the real world doesn't care if they breath or not. Instead of the good kids being pointed out to the bad kids as someone they should emulate to get rewarded the way they are, the bad kids get pizza parties for not misbehaving in class for a week. What horse shit.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 17, 2015 17:18:50 GMT -5
Again, the danger does not go away because this kid is not allowed to enroll in school. I can see the possibility that not allowing him to enroll actually increases the danger he poses to students. I think that is a flawed argument. Saying a threat is more of a threat if you attempt to eliminate it, does not lessen the fact that it is a threat to begin with. We have someone who has threatened violence on multiple occasions, had mental issues, is on medication, and brought loaded guns to school. Do you seriously not see that person as a threat? Especially in this day and age with all the awareness, bringing a loaded gun to school is a one and done thing for me. No second chances, nope. IMHO there are some transgressions which should bar the individual from mainstream public education, period. Yea, a loaded gun would be #3 on the list.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 17, 2015 17:23:36 GMT -5
Again, the danger does not go away because this kid is not allowed to enroll in school. I can see the possibility that not allowing him to enroll actually increases the danger he poses to students. I think that is a flawed argument. Saying a threat is more of a threat if you attempt to eliminate it, does not lessen the fact that it is a threat to begin with. We have someone who has threatened violence on multiple occasions, had mental issues, is on medication, and brought loaded guns to school. Do you seriously not see that person as a threat? Especially in this day and age with all the awareness, bringing a loaded gun to school is a one and done thing for me. No second chances, nope. IMHO there are some transgressions which should bar the individual from mainstream public education, period. Yea, a loaded gun would be #3 on the list. I see the person as a threat. He might: 1) be an enrolled student who brings a gun to school and shoots people or 2) be a person not enrolled in school who takes a gun to the school and shoots people.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 17, 2015 17:26:53 GMT -5
So, I am reading a Farmer Boy to my oldest.
There is a chapter about kids going to one-room school and everyone had one teacher. There were a few older kids who were not just trouble makes but they would beat up every teacher that they had. And their current teacher seems to be the kind of guy who is soft spoken and not very strong. One day he disciplines the kids and they are getting ready to beat him up. He takes out a whip and goes after one of those boys. Long story short - those kids never beat anyone again.
Needless to say, 99% of the people would be screaming child abuse and brutality, and while I don't know if I am advocating harsh physical punishments, I am not a very big believer that "talks" will cure everything.
But of course it's not PC to say so. It's "children" after all. Defenseless little children.
Every time I hear similar stories I keep going back to Let's talk about Kevin.
Some people just should not be a part of general population
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 17, 2015 17:28:21 GMT -5
True. He needs to prove himself for a hell of a lot longer in a secured facility. What he's done since he's been out does not smack of rehabilitation.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 17, 2015 17:33:26 GMT -5
I think that is a flawed argument. Saying a threat is more of a threat if you attempt to eliminate it, does not lessen the fact that it is a threat to begin with. We have someone who has threatened violence on multiple occasions, had mental issues, is on medication, and brought loaded guns to school. Do you seriously not see that person as a threat? Especially in this day and age with all the awareness, bringing a loaded gun to school is a one and done thing for me. No second chances, nope. IMHO there are some transgressions which should bar the individual from mainstream public education, period. Yea, a loaded gun would be #3 on the list. I see the person as a threat. He might: 1) be an enrolled student who brings a gun to school and shoots people or 2) be a person not enrolled in school who takes a gun to the school and shoots people. And I said it earlier in this thread-what happens when he ages out of high school? Will he no longer be a threat to the community and school(s)?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 17, 2015 17:40:35 GMT -5
He will probably always be a threat until he is removed from society, either by a bullet or by prison. But just like pedophiles are not welcome around civilized people, he has the same fate awaiting him. . It's sad but we have no place in society for those with anti social behaviors.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Feb 17, 2015 17:46:44 GMT -5
Eesh that's a hard one. I know that I am supposed to say for the good of society he should be allowed back into the school because there he will make friends, get support and hopefully live a normal life with the assistance of medication and regular therapy. At the same time though I am not eager to put my child in the middle of a social experiment. In an ideal world everything would be rainbows, if it isn't then my kid is in the line of fire.
Not an easy answer. Maybe alternative schools need to make a comeback. The only kids that would accept him would be the ones with similar mind set. Teachers would be very wary. In our city we have a third high school for difficult kids. He would fit there.
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