zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 30, 2015 21:01:34 GMT -5
I'm wondering if they ever find the person who infects all these people, what they can legally do to that person?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 30, 2015 21:06:37 GMT -5
They have a shingles vaccination which is nice because shingles is painful! Got the shingles shot at age 60. Had a minor case of it at age 46.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 30, 2015 21:10:07 GMT -5
Did they tell you when you got the shingles vaccine that basically you need to isolate yourself for 8-14 days? Because it's a live virus and you can infect someone with a compromised immune system. Which means my DH, my aunt who is being treated for cancer, and plenty of people that I might not even be aware that could have a compromised immune system. So basically I need to get it to protect myself and DH but where the hell can I go without infecting anyone else!? Zibazinski-my doctor never mention isolating myself after I got the shingles shot.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Jan 30, 2015 21:20:39 GMT -5
I think the shingles shot is about $200 cdn here in Ontario, I'll have to ask my doctors about it cause the 2 cases that I have had were very mild.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 30, 2015 21:32:46 GMT -5
Did they tell you when you got the shingles vaccine that basically you need to isolate yourself for 8-14 days? Because it's a live virus and you can infect someone with a compromised immune system. Which means my DH, my aunt who is being treated for cancer, and plenty of people that I might not even be aware that could have a compromised immune system. So basically I need to get it to protect myself and DH but where the hell can I go without infecting anyone else!? Zibazinski-my doctor never mention isolating myself after I got the shingles shot. ...there are no documented cases of the varicella-zoster virus being transmitted from adults vaccinated with the shingles vaccine, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/shingles/expert-answers/shingles-vaccine/faq-20058137
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 30, 2015 22:20:47 GMT -5
Did they tell you when you got the shingles vaccine that basically you need to isolate yourself for 8-14 days? Because it's a live virus and you can infect someone with a compromised immune system. Which means my DH, my aunt who is being treated for cancer, and plenty of people that I might not even be aware that could have a compromised immune system. So basically I need to get it to protect myself and DH but where the hell can I go without infecting anyone else!? What?? That's crazy talk!
www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/shingles/expert-answers/shingles-vaccine/faq-20058137
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 30, 2015 22:25:39 GMT -5
There have been no documented cases of measles or shingles being contracted from someone who's had the zoster vaccine. None.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 30, 2015 22:31:29 GMT -5
There have been no documented cases of measles or shingles being contracted from someone who's had the zoster vaccine. None. We've had nurses who were vaccinated with the shingles vaccine, and going right back to work. The people they're working with aren't exactly the picture of health.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 30, 2015 22:32:37 GMT -5
There have been no documented cases of measles or shingles being contracted from someone who's had the zoster vaccine. None. We've had nurses who were vaccinated with the shingles vaccine, and going right back to work. The people they're working with aren't exactly the picture of health.
We had the same and I didn't quit taking patients after I had mine. That's just not correct protocol!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 30, 2015 22:46:11 GMT -5
I get my booster every ten years.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 30, 2015 22:48:37 GMT -5
I was flat out told by my primary and the cardiac dr that I cannot be around anyone with a compromised immune system. Not after getting the shingles shot.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Feb 1, 2015 0:50:41 GMT -5
Disclaimer: I haven't read any of the posts in the thread. Not one. My response: Oh, crap ... I'm not supposed to vaccinate my cats!?
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Feb 1, 2015 1:11:33 GMT -5
YES! Absolutley! My kitties wouldn't be adopted out until I'd arranged to have them inoculated if they weren't already (for distemper, etc) - which was a given, in my books! Also spayed/neutered.
And they've all been indoor kitties, kept safe within the confines of my home.
Call me a bad mommy for vaccinating my babies.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 1, 2015 1:53:22 GMT -5
YES! Absolutley! My kitties wouldn't be adopted out until I'd arranged to have them inoculated if they weren't already (for distemper, etc) - which was a given, in my books! Also spayed/neutered.
And they've all been indoor kitties, kept safe within the confines of my home.
Call me a bad mommy for vaccinating my babies. When I tool Sushi for his shots, the vet said "Well, I suppose I could give him a rabies shot and charge you for it, but he really doesn't need it. Rabies is exceedingly rare in this city and he doesn't even go outside." What a pleasant surprise, as other vets insisted.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Feb 2, 2015 10:23:50 GMT -5
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 2, 2015 10:51:15 GMT -5
I have tried for 2 years to get DD a shingles shot. The pharmacies will give it if the docs will write a prescription. They keep saying its expensive and medicare won't pay for it till she is over 62 or so, she is disabled and has medicare and Medicaid. I don't care if they will pay, we will, my mom had shingles and it was awful, it was on her back and I had to put medication on her for quite a long time, she was in terrible pain. DD does not want to get it and I don't want her to either. Is there some other reason they won't let someone like her have it? She will be 45 in March. Pat - I asked my doctor about the shingles vaccine and she advised me to wait until I'm in my early 50's at least (I'm willing to pay out of pocket) because apparently they don't have a booster for it yet and they are not sure exactly for how long the vaccine will provide protection. I'm a few years older than your DD.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 2, 2015 12:40:01 GMT -5
Some of those questions are really stupid & biased (sorry, I know you didn't write them). I don't know enough to answer all of them, but I can point out the flaws just in the questions of many of them:
1) If measles vaccines confer measles immunity, then why do already-vaccinated children have anything to fear from a measles outbreak? - As already discussed in this thread, the vaccine only provides like 95% immunity. Misleading question.
3) If vaccines don't have any links to autism, then why did a top CDC scientist openly confess to the CDC committing scientific fraud by selectively omitting clinical trial data after the fact in order to obscure an existing link between vaccines and autism? - Even snopes says there is no coverup www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp. Unless you think snopes is in on hiding something.
4) If mercury is a neurotoxic chemical (which it is), then why is it still being injected into children and pregnant women via vaccines? - Thermosil is not in any vaccines given to children. Note the picture of a vaccine containing thermosil clearly says "For Adult Use Only" (another misleading question) Thermosil is only still put in multi-use vials, which should not be given to pregnant women or children.
7) If vaccines are so great for public health, then why do these historical public health charts show nearly all the declines in infectious disease taking place BEFORE vaccines arrived on the scene? - There was no chart on the linked page. My guess is that is when they started figuring out how germs were transmitted & the importance of washing hands & general sanitation. Those things would greatly reduce the spread of diseases, but that alone could never eradicate.
8) If vaccines are perfectly safe, then why did at least 13 people recently die in Italy after being vaccinated? - Coincidence. The vaccine was thoroughly tested after the deaths & some autopsies were performed. All the deaths were in the elderly & were found to be unrelated to the vaccine.
9) If vaccines are so trustworthy, then why did a pro-vaccine group in Africa recently discover -- to its shock and horror -- that vaccines being given to young African women were secretly laced with abortion chemicals?
- Again snopes www.snopes.com/medical/disease/tetanus.asp
10) If vaccines are backed by solid science, then why do some vaccine inserts openly admit they are backed by no clinical trials? - They then show a picture of a flu vaccine. Trials are not completed every year on flu vaccines because they are all basically the same each year except with slightly different viruses. Misleading question because all other vaccines do not changes & have had trials. Flu vaccine has had trials, just not for every year's variation.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Feb 2, 2015 12:50:37 GMT -5
11) If vaccines are so safe, then why does this vaccine insert admit that the Gardasil vaccine causes "acute respiratory illness" in babies who consume the breast milk of mothers who have been vaccinated? - Vaccines like all drugs have side effects. Should be noted that it doesn't say it occurred in all babies, just a higher number of babies than the control group, which also had babies suffer from the same illness.
12) If vaccines are so safe, then why does this Gardasil insert sheet admit that the vaccine causes "seizure-like activity, headache, fever, nausea and dizziness" and can even cause those injected with the vaccine to lose consciousness and fall, resulting in injury? - Vaccines like all drugs have side effects. The side effects are generally consider minor especially compared to the potential complications of the diseases they help prevent.
13) If vaccines are totally safe, then why do vaccine insert sheets disclose a long list of frightening and bizarre side effects associated with their vaccines? - Same answer & misleading question. No one says that vaccines are totally safe.
14) If vaccines are backed by so much "science" then why do they frequently admit there really aren't any studies of the vaccine for the very groups of people who are often injected with it? - Another misleading question. The pics show Gardasil & vavivax have no studies completed on pregnant women. However, these drugs are not recommended for pregnant & pregnant women aren't often injected with it.
15) If vaccines are so safe to give to pregnant women, then why do the vaccine insert sheets openly admit most of them have never been tested for safety in pregnant women? In fact, this vaccine admits "the effects of the vaccine in fetal development are unknown." - Another misleading question because they are giving examples of vaccines that aren't given to pregnant women.
17) If vaccines achieve absolute immunity, then why are as many as 97 percent of children struck by infectious disease already vaccinated against that disease? - Another misleading question because no one claims that vaccines achieve absolute immunity.
18) If vaccines are totally safe and effective, then why did this five-year-old girl recently die from the very strain of flu she was just vaccinated against? - Again no claims of absolute immunity
Basically this group has set the bar ridiculously high - No one vaccinated will ever get sick or have a side effect. Then they show that vaccines don't meet this expectation (and therefore are bad??) The problem is no one would ever claim that vaccines will meet this expectation. So they are arguing against claims that were never made.
I'm sure there is a name for this type of fallacy, I just don't know it.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Feb 2, 2015 13:00:21 GMT -5
11) If vaccines are so safe, then why does this vaccine insert admit that the Gardasil vaccine causes "acute respiratory illness" in babies who consume the breast milk of mothers who have been vaccinated? - Vaccines like all drugs have side effects. Should be noted that it doesn't say it occurred in all babies, just a higher number of babies than the control group, which also had babies suffer from the same illness. 12) If vaccines are so safe, then why does this Gardasil insert sheet admit that the vaccine causes "seizure-like activity, headache, fever, nausea and dizziness" and can even cause those injected with the vaccine to lose consciousness and fall, resulting in injury? - Vaccines like all drugs have side effects. The side effects are generally consider minor especially compared to the potential complications of the diseases they help prevent. 13) If vaccines are totally safe, then why do vaccine insert sheets disclose a long list of frightening and bizarre side effects associated with their vaccines? - Same answer & misleading question. No one says that vaccines are totally safe. 14) If vaccines are backed by so much "science" then why do they frequently admit there really aren't any studies of the vaccine for the very groups of people who are often injected with it? - Another misleading question. The pics show Gardasil & vavivax have no studies completed on pregnant women. However, these drugs are not recommended for pregnant & pregnant women aren't often injected with it. 15) If vaccines are so safe to give to pregnant women, then why do the vaccine insert sheets openly admit most of them have never been tested for safety in pregnant women? In fact, this vaccine admits "the effects of the vaccine in fetal development are unknown." - Another misleading question because they are giving examples of vaccines that aren't given to pregnant women. 17) If vaccines achieve absolute immunity, then why are as many as 97 percent of children struck by infectious disease already vaccinated against that disease? - Another misleading question because no one claims that vaccines achieve absolute immunity. 18) If vaccines are totally safe and effective, then why did this five-year-old girl recently die from the very strain of flu she was just vaccinated against? - Again no claims of absolute immunity Basically this group has set the bar ridiculously high - No one vaccinated will ever get sick or have a side effect. Then they show that vaccines don't meet this expectation (and therefore are bad??) The problem is no one would ever claim that vaccines will meet this expectation. So they are arguing against claims that were never made. I'm sure there is a name for this type of fallacy, I just don't know it. It's called the straw man argument. You argue against facts noone asserted in the first place, you are essentially arguing against a "straw man." Nearly every one of these questions is a straw man argument. People who are unable to identify fallacious arguments are more likely to be gulled into believing things that are patently untrue.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 2, 2015 13:01:46 GMT -5
Natural News? Oh, honey, no. Just no.
NaturalNews.com (formerly Newstarget) is an anti-science conspiracy website founded by Mike Adams (self-labeled "The Health Ranger") which promotes numerous alternative medicines and assorted woo.
The site particularly specializes in: vaccine denialism and woo, AIDS/HIV denialism, quack cancer treatments, and Conspiracy theories about "Big Pharma".
Furthermore, Adams supports quantum woo, specifically quantum healing, the many worlds interpretation, and quantum consciousness.NaturalNews advances a hard green position, even though the site also promotes global warming denialism. Adams promotes conspiracy theories about gun control.
Long story short: Even other quacks think it's a quack site.
If you cite NaturalNews on any matter whatsoever, you are almost certainly wrong.
rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2015 13:07:12 GMT -5
I don't think asking questions is a problem. I think denying legitimate answers can be a problem.
As far as 'big pharma' and conspiracy.... Well, I've had the inside view on some of that and definitely know that their actions are not all in the best interests of the public... That idea is not to be dismissed as 'tinfoil' worthy...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 2, 2015 13:12:10 GMT -5
AIDS/HIV denialism
Is this where people are still denying that AIDS and HIV are connected?
I work in pharmacology research and I certainly agree that "Big Pharma" is not altruistic anymore than other companies that produce goods are. I am not sure what we expect pharmaceutical companies to be any different. That being said the majority of vaccines are extremely expensive to make but very low profit, especially the older ones like polio and the MMR. There aren't a lot of manufactures left that make them because it's such an expensive endeavor with little rate of return.
Big Pharm makes much better money with drugs that people take long term like Viagra or a heartburn pill like Nexium.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 2, 2015 13:18:30 GMT -5
AIDS/HIV denialism
Is this where people are still denying that AIDS and HIV are connected?
I work in pharmacology research and I certainly agree that "Big Pharma" is not altruistic anymore than other companies that produce goods are. I am not sure what we expect pharmaceutical companies to be any different. That being said the majority of vaccines are extremely expensive to make but very low profit, especially the older ones like polio and the MMR. There aren't a lot of manufactures left that make them because it's such an expensive endeavor with little rate of return.
Big Pharm makes much better money with drugs that people take long term like Viagra or a heartburn pill like Nexium.
"HIV does NOT cause AIDS. HIV does not cause anything. A staggering statement given the hype and acceptance by the scientific establishment and, through them, the public that the HIV virus is the only cause of AIDS. HIV is a weak virus and does not dismantle the immune system. Nor is AIDS passed on sexually."
It is worth noting that the above blog post is authored by David Icke, the man who believes that the world is controlled by a race of reptiles from outer space who reside in underground tunnels. If you thought things couldn't get much darker than AIDS denialism, you'd be wrong. This week Natural News reached dangerous new levels of hysteria, publishing a post indirectly calling for the deaths of journalists, publishers and scientists who have worked on the topic of genetically modified organisms. In this latest post Mike Adams, the creator of Natural News, calls for the creation of a list of pro-GMO "publishers, journalists and scientists":
bigthink.com/neurobonkers/who-do-you-know-who-believes-in-the-most-deadly-kind-of-pseudoscience
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 2, 2015 13:20:18 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 2, 2015 13:22:24 GMT -5
HIV does NOT cause AIDS. HIV does not cause anything. Just wow. On the one hand the internet is a good thing, on the other it gives boobs like this way too much of a voice. Of course AIDS doesn't exist! On the other hand, a race of reptiles from another world controls humanity. You can't make this stuff up.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Feb 2, 2015 13:25:51 GMT -5
AIDS/HIV denialism
Is this where people are still denying that AIDS and HIV are connected?
I work in pharmacology research and I certainly agree that "Big Pharma" is not altruistic anymore than other companies that produce goods are. I am not sure what we expect pharmaceutical companies to be any different. That being said the majority of vaccines are extremely expensive to make but very low profit, especially the older ones like polio and the MMR. There aren't a lot of manufactures left that make them because it's such an expensive endeavor with little rate of return.
Big Pharm makes much better money with drugs that people take long term like Viagra or a heartburn pill like Nexium.
And pill manufacturing is much easier than liquids. Maintaining the necessary sterile environment to manufacture something to be injected into the bloodstream is a beyotch. It's way easier for pills.
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justme
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Post by justme on Feb 2, 2015 13:59:41 GMT -5
And the high expense, low margin, and one time use are why the companies are given immunity and there's a government recourse. The companies were going to stop production because it made little sense with the slim to none profits to have the huge swath of liability. Government took on the liability because they knew the vaccines needed to keep being produced.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 2, 2015 14:07:14 GMT -5
Heretic! There shall be none of your kind in this thread! You threaten the immunity of the herd.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 2, 2015 14:11:58 GMT -5
vaccines are so safe to give to pregnant women, then why do the vaccine insert sheets openly admit most of them have never been tested for safety in pregnant women?
I can answer this one. Hardly ANY drugs have clinical studies done on pregnant women. The reason is because there is a major ethical concern over the fact that you have a fetus going along for the ride.
The fetus can't consent and it's a grey area to have the mother consent. The harm to the fetus can be serious enough that it's an ethical no no to even consider the project.
Accutane for example, all that data comes from rats/mice (my former boss was a part of it). You can't ethically ask a pregnant woman to pop Accutane, the side effects would do irreparable harm to the fetus.
The majority of research done in relation to pregnancy is data mining/personal testimony and/or animal work. That's why the medical community seems so extreme when it comes to the advice given to pregnant women. It's better to err on the side of caution when the clinical data is hard to obtain.
I learned that when I took my CITI training course.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 2, 2015 14:22:28 GMT -5
ANY injection can cause people to fall and lose consciousness, even if you're injecting them with normal saline. It's caused by stress and anxiety, combined with low blood pressure. ALL medication can have side effects, up to and including death. This includes aspirin, Motrin and even herbal remedies. Maybe we should eliminate all medications from our repertoire. If you die, you die.
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