The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 30, 2015 9:23:33 GMT -5
www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/30/amid-measles-outbreak-anti-vaccine-doctor-revels-in-his-notoriety/“Don’t be mad at me for speaking the truth about vaccines,” Wolfson said in a telephone interview with The Washington Post. “Be mad at yourself, because you’re, frankly, a bad mother. You didn’t ask once about those vaccines. You didn’t ask about the chemicals in them. You didn’t ask about all the harmful things in those vaccines. … People need to learn the facts.”
He added: “I’m a big fan of what’s called paleo-nutrition, so our children eat foods that our ancestors have been eating for millions of years … That’s the best way to protect.”
I hope to all that's holy they rescind his license. This man is a menace. Any yes, I've researched every vaccine before DD got them. Hopefully this will be the trigger to get states to start rescinding the exemptions from vaccines for non-medical reasons.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 30, 2015 9:29:23 GMT -5
If he walks like a quack, talks like a quack, and practices like a quack, he's a quack. And a dangerous quack at that.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 30, 2015 9:34:47 GMT -5
But he's a doctor, so he MUST be right!!! All the anit-vaccer's need is just one authority to hang their hat on.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 30, 2015 9:42:05 GMT -5
For some very odd, strange, inexplicable medical reason, the very, very, very vast majority of vaccinated folks miraculously survived to old age without complications from same.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 30, 2015 9:45:08 GMT -5
I didn't do my research on vaccines. I don't care if he thinks I'm a bad mother. I think he's a damn stupid douchecanoe doctor (and he probably doesn't care what I think of him either)
At some point his patients are going to be part of an outbreak of a preventable disease.
Wouldn't paleo nutrition would vary from area to area, based on climate, seed dispersal and stuff like that? Not to mention that the people living then had a life expectancy of what, 30-40? And that's asuming the women survived childbirth... Nope. I can live with him thinking I'm a bad mom. That's going to roll right off my back and out the door. There's much more legitimate people who's opinion I'm going to worry about than his.
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Jan 30, 2015 9:51:52 GMT -5
OMG - this whole thing is giving me chronic rage-induced hypertension.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jan 30, 2015 9:58:30 GMT -5
I'm a mom, due to DS having autism, who has been second-guessing herself for years on whether I should have waited a bit longer to vaccinate. But, that's for another thread.
Measles IS highly contagious. And, it amazes me how many people who DID get their shot are getting the disease.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Jan 30, 2015 10:15:46 GMT -5
Meh. . . wouldn't be the first time I was called a bad mother.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 30, 2015 10:32:06 GMT -5
I'm a mom, due to DS having autism, who has been second-guessing herself for years on whether I should have waited a bit longer to vaccinate. But, that's for another thread.
Measles IS highly contagious. And, it amazes me how many people who DID get their shot are getting the disease. Even when vaccinated the body will not develop a proper immune response in 1-2% of the population. Which is why herd immunity is so important. THAT should give you an idea of how many have actually been exposed.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 30, 2015 10:46:21 GMT -5
Not going to get on my soapbox . .. not going to get on my soap box. .. not going to get on my soapbox. . . We've had three confirmed measles cases here recently. I don't get why people aren't worried because that means that herd immunity is starting to break down. When herd immunity breaks down we're all in trouble. The people with natural immunity are dying off, the people who are vaccinated are becoming the minority. It wouldn't take much for a full blown epidemic to occur. I read an interesting article once that theorized that the vaccination program worked "too well" in that people our age who have been vaccinated our entire lives against these diseases don't understand the seriousness of it. What cases do pop up are "mild" thanks to herd immunity. So we figure "so what if we don't get our kids vaccinated, measles isn't that bad". My grandmother on the other hand remembers people dying or being disfigured/crippled by these diseases. She said I cannot begin to understand the fear she felt for my father when it came to polio. She remembers lining up for the vaccination and how relieved she was. Who gave a crap about "side effects" when you'd seen what polio could do? There is also the theory part of the problem is we're spoiled as a developed country. We don't have to fight for our survival so we have the luxury to sit and debate if we really even need vaccinations. Places like Africa don't have that luxury. Basically we have the luxury of sitting around and taking seriously a 1985 study by Andrew Wakefield that's long been debunked. We have the luxury of dismissing over 25 years of research that shows there is NO LINK WHATSOEVER between vaccinations and autism. We have over 25 years of research that shows vaccinations are safe and effective for the majority of the population. But screw science, let's listen to some quack doctor because he tells you what you want to hear. I'm proud to be a "bad parent". I am proud to be a "bad person" by extending to society the benefit of my children being vaccinated so you can sit in your little cloud of smugness over not vaccinating. It's MY kids that are keeping you from getting sick. You're welcome. Crap, I got on my soap box.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 30, 2015 10:46:57 GMT -5
Regarding measles-on Good Morning America this morning, the show's medical expert stated there is always a chance of 10% of the vaccinated population contracting a mild form of the measles but a 90% chance of the unvaccinated population contracting a full blown case of it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 30, 2015 10:49:15 GMT -5
And, it amazes me how many people who DID get their shot are getting the disease
Viruses mutate. That's why it's so important everyone get vaccinated. Our immune systems are smart they learn from being exposed to a virus. So if you've been given the vaccination and get exposed to another form of measles if it is similar enough your immune system will mount a response.
It might not keep you from getting the measles at all, but it can help keep you from dying from it.
Once herd immunity breaks down and people start passing around these viruses again it'll give them more opportunities to mutate. It's only a matter of time before one pops up that nobody living has any immunity to and creates a pandemic.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 30, 2015 10:52:33 GMT -5
Not going to get on my soapbox . .. not going to get on my soap box. .. not going to get on my soapbox. . . ... But screw science, let's listen to some quack doctor because he tells you what you want to hear. I'm proud to be a "bad parent". I am proud to be a "bad person" by extending to society the benefit of my children being vaccinated so you can sit in your little cloud of smugness over not vaccinating. It's MY kids that are keeping you from getting sick. You're welcome. Crap, I got on my soap box. A few years back we had whooping cough go through DD's school. One of her classmates had a sibling (who was too young to be vaccinated) in the hospital for a few weeks with complications. Our old school had a lower than average compliance rate which bothered the heck out of me. DD does get her shots but she's got a minor septal defect which makes me worry. OTOH I've just realized I am a bad mother because I haven't called to check immunization rates at her current school.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 30, 2015 10:55:00 GMT -5
I also read this moning that (now) adults who only received one measles vaccination as a child back in the olden days should consider getting a second shot like the protocol is for two today (as a booster shot when 4-6 years old). Have You Had Your Measles Shot? Maybe You Need Another
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 30, 2015 10:56:13 GMT -5
They changed things here in Iowa. You need to be vaccinated to go to public school. .. period. There are no more exceptions (besides proven established medical reasons)
And you know what :: dons flame suit:: I am 100% supportive of it. You want to send your kid to public school then you do your duty and you vaccinate your kids to help keep mine safe. I in turn vaccinate my kids to keep your kids safe.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jan 30, 2015 10:56:49 GMT -5
www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/30/amid-measles-outbreak-anti-vaccine-doctor-revels-in-his-notoriety/“Don’t be mad at me for speaking the truth about vaccines,” Wolfson said in a telephone interview with The Washington Post. “Be mad at yourself, because you’re, frankly, a bad mother. You didn’t ask once about those vaccines. You didn’t ask about the chemicals in them. You didn’t ask about all the harmful things in those vaccines. … People need to learn the facts.”
He added: “I’m a big fan of what’s called paleo-nutrition, so our children eat foods that our ancestors have been eating for millions of years … That’s the best way to protect.”
I hope to all that's holy they rescind his license. This man is a menace. Any yes, I've researched every vaccine before DD got them. Hopefully this will be the trigger to get states to start rescinding the exemptions from vaccines for non-medical reasons. I am so freaking sick and tired of people trying to live like it's 200-500 years ago. You want to live like that? Fine! Go the fuck away, loose everything that has been discovered and invented and go live off the land and whatever "kill" you had for the day. You'll probably be dead by the time you are 30 from all the diseases, but at least I won't have to listen to your constant stupid nonsense.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 30, 2015 11:08:11 GMT -5
www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/30/amid-measles-outbreak-anti-vaccine-doctor-revels-in-his-notoriety/“Don’t be mad at me for speaking the truth about vaccines,” Wolfson said in a telephone interview with The Washington Post. “Be mad at yourself, because you’re, frankly, a bad mother. You didn’t ask once about those vaccines. You didn’t ask about the chemicals in them. You didn’t ask about all the harmful things in those vaccines. … People need to learn the facts.”
He added: “I’m a big fan of what’s called paleo-nutrition, so our children eat foods that our ancestors have been eating for millions of years … That’s the best way to protect.”
I hope to all that's holy they rescind his license. This man is a menace. Any yes, I've researched every vaccine before DD got them. Hopefully this will be the trigger to get states to start rescinding the exemptions from vaccines for non-medical reasons. I am so freaking sick and tired of people trying to live like it's 200-500 years ago. You want to live like that? Fine! Go the fuck away, loose everything that has been discovered and invented and go live off the land and whatever "kill" you had for the day. You'll probably be dead by the time you are 30 from all the diseases, but at least I won't have to listen to your constant stupid nonsense. I assumed that the Paleo in paleo nutrition referenced diets has more zeros in it - min. of 20,000-50,000 years ago. although if he's counting millions of years, he's not talking homo sapiens. I'd have to check but the Leakeys found bones (including Lucy) that were around 4 million years old in that gorge in Africa. Ok, I'm going off to check, for the hell of it and to figure out what diet he's talking about. And really wondering what HE is actually eating, if he's following the millions year old diet.
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Jan 30, 2015 11:14:42 GMT -5
I will live with being a bad mother.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 30, 2015 11:14:54 GMT -5
I'd LOVE to see him say this to my mom's face.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 30, 2015 11:17:38 GMT -5
If he said that to me I'd be back the next day with a stack of papers from the medical library, Google Scholar and PubMed.
I'd throw them at him and say "Your move ass clown".
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 30, 2015 11:22:33 GMT -5
Ok, I'm mainly using wikipedia as sources.
Homo From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Homo (genus)) This article is about the genus of hominids. Homo is the genus of hominids that includes modern humans and species closely related to them. The genus is estimated to be about 2.3 to 2.4 million years old,[1][2] possibly having evolved from australopithecine ancestors, with the appearance of Homo habilis [3] It is the only genus in the subtribe Hominina. Several species, including Australopithecus garhi, Australopithecus sediba, Australopithecus africanus, and Australopithecus afarensis, have been proposed as the direct ancestor of the Homo lineage.[4][5] These species have morphological features that align them with Homo, but there is no consensus on which gave rise to Homo, assuming it was not an as of yet undiscovered species.
Archaic humans From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Archaic Homo sapiens)
A number of varieties of Homo are grouped into the broad category of archaic humans, contrasted with modern humans (Homo sapiens), in the period beginning 500,000 years ago. This category typically includes Homo heidelbergensis, Homo rhodesiensis, Homo neanderthalensis, and may also include Homo antecessor.[1]
Modern humans are theorized to have evolved from archaic humans, who in turn evolved from Homo erectus. Varieties of archaic humans are sometimes included under the binomial name "Homo sapiens" because their brain size is very similar to that of modern humans. Archaic humans had a brain size averaging 1200 to 1400 cubic centimeters, which overlaps with the range of modern humans. Archaics are distinguished from anatomically modern humans by having a thick skull, prominent brow ridges and the lack of a prominent chin.[1][2]
Anatomically modern humans appear from about 200,000 years ago and after 70,000 years ago (see Toba catastrophe theory) gradually marginalize the "archaic" varieties. Non-modern varieties of Homo are certain to have survived until after 30,000 years ago, and perhaps until as recent as 10,000 years ago. Which of these, if any, are included under the term "archaic human" is a matter of definition and varies among authors. Nonetheless, according to recent genetic studies, modern humans may have bred with "at least two groups" of ancient humans: Neanderthals and Denisovans.[3] Other studies have cast doubt on admixture being the source of the shared genetic markers between archaic and modern humans, pointing to an ancestral origin of the traits originating 500,000 to 800,000 years ago.
Ok, so that eliminates "modern" man as millions of years ago.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 30, 2015 11:25:25 GMT -5
Now on to diet. Again, mainly from Wikipedia
Paleolithic From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Paleolithic (American spelling; British spelling: Palaeolithic; pronunciation: /ˌpæliɵˈlɪθɪk/ or /ˌpeɪl-/) Age, Era or Period is a prehistoric period of human history distinguished by the development of the most primitive stone tools discovered (Grahame Clark's Modes I and II), and covers roughly 95%[1] of human technological prehistory. It extends from the earliest known use of stone tools, probably by hominins such as australopithecines, 2.6 million years ago, to the end of the Pleistocene around 10,000 BP.[2]
The Paleolithic era is followed by the Mesolithic. The date of the Paleolithic—Mesolithic boundary may vary by locality as much as several thousand years. During the Paleolithic period, humans grouped together in small societies such as bands, and subsisted by gathering plants and fishing, hunting or scavenging wild animals.[3] The Paleolithic is characterized by the use of knapped stone tools, although at the time humans also used wood and bone tools. Other organic commodities were adapted for use as tools, including leather and vegetable fibers; however, due to their nature, these have not been preserved to any great degree.
Diet and nutrition (italics mine - a sub heading of the main article Paleolithic)
Paleolithic hunting and gathering people ate varying proportions of leafy vegetables, fruit, nuts and insects, meat, fish, and shellfish.[90][91] However, there is little direct evidence of the relative proportions of plant and animal foods.[92] Although the term "paleolithic diet", without references to a specific timeframe or locale, is sometimes used with an implication that most humans shared a certain diet during the entire era, that is not entirely accurate. The Paleolithic was an extended period of time, during which multiple technological advances were made, many of which had impact on human dietary structure. For example, humans probably did not possess the control of fire until the Middle Paleolithic,[93] or tools necessary to engage in extensive fishing.[citation needed] On the other hand, both these technologies are generally agreed to have been widely available to humans by the end of the Paleolithic (consequently, allowing humans in some regions of the planet to rely heavily on fishing and hunting). In addition, the Paleolithic involved a substantial geographical expansion of human populations. During the Lower Paleolithic, ancestors of modern humans are thought to have been constrained to Africa east of the Great Rift Valley. During the Middle and Upper Paleolithic, humans greatly expanded their area of settlement, reaching ecosystems as diverse as New Guinea and Alaska, and adapting their diets to whatever local resources available.
Another view is that until the Upper Paleolithic, humans were frugivores (fruit eaters) who supplemented their meals with carrion, eggs, and small prey such as baby birds and mussels, and only on rare occasions managed to kill and consume big game such as antelopes.[94]
*-*-*-*- So, my dear doctor, what are you eating?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 30, 2015 11:57:00 GMT -5
If he said that to me I'd be back the next day with a stack of papers from the medical library, Google Scholar and PubMed. I'd throw them at him and say "Your move ass clown". LOL!! My mom doesn't believe in cursing...but she does believe in punching someone in the face! I know...what can ya do?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 30, 2015 12:00:14 GMT -5
I'd want to punch him too, but I'd be more amused to see if he can actually provide his "facts" when called to the table and presented with a stack of peer reviewed journal articles. I doubt he'd expect a mother to actually go to the trouble and know how to properly "check your facts". He's expecting them to be guilted into doing what he says that's why he used the "bad mommy" defense. You wanna play and claim the facts are on your side, let's play buddy.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 30, 2015 12:02:28 GMT -5
I'd want to punch him too, but I'd be more amused to see if he can actually provide his "facts" when called to the table and presented with a stack of peer reviewed journal articles. I doubt he'd expect a mother to actually go to the trouble and know how to properly "check your facts". He's expecting them to be guilted into doing what he says that's why he used the "bad mommy" defense. You wanna play and claim the facts are on your side, let's play buddy. I'd (obviously) be attacking from the "eating for millions of years" part of his argument. Maybe we could tag team him!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 30, 2015 12:02:52 GMT -5
So... Have we deduced vaccines = good or vaccines = bad?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 30, 2015 12:07:27 GMT -5
So... Have we deduced vaccines = good or vaccines = bad? We're focusing on how idiotic he is instead. It's not going to lead to lots of bad feelings on the board on a Friday.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 30, 2015 12:17:09 GMT -5
So... Have we deduced vaccines = good or vaccines = bad? We're focusing on how idiotic he is instead. It's not going to lead to lots of bad feelings on the board on a Friday. He's a contrarian. He may be wrong, and his being wrong may be dangerous, but that doesn't make him an idiot. He might well be more intelligent that you, me, and everyone else in the room. His education and experience have led him to reject a body of evidence the greater medical community considers definitive, and accept a body of evidence the greater medical community considers dubious. I wish you guys would get this passionate about economics. We need more incensed moms with pitchforks sticking them into proponents of economic "science".
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 30, 2015 12:20:17 GMT -5
I understand vaccinations.
Economics I don't get at all. I agree with South Park. It's a bunch of men in a room with a headless chicken and a wheel of fortune board.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jan 30, 2015 12:31:30 GMT -5
Well, may be I am the idiot, but I don't consider extremists smart at all.
There are very few absolutes in life and vaccinations are certainly not one of them.
for anyone to suggest that they are all good or all evil - not very smart, in my idiotic opinion
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