The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 19, 2014 9:08:31 GMT -5
So I recently got an e-mail from on of my BFF from college. She's recently found out her employer is shutting down their office and she's losing her job. Her youngest just graduated from HS (which is the only reason they've stayed in the shitty area, to let the kids finish school with their friends). Her husband has been unemployed more during their marriage then he's been employed. OF COURSE he's not currently employed, hasn't been for about the past two years. She kinda hinted around maybe moving in with us (the job market is much better in my area) while they look for a job. I told her I'd need to discuss options with DH. She'd be welcome with the kids (well the two youngest - oldest is already on their own). Just not her husband. He's an ass, I can't stand him and am nice/civil to him only for her sake. I have zero respect for him especially as an able bodied man who'd rather let his family struggle and wife support him then have to take "bullshit" from his boss (his reason for quitting or getting fired many times) . At the age of 50 they.have.nothing (well except each other) because they've never been able to save for a house or anything else. Half the time his excuse for not working is there's only one car and she needs it to get to work. She's as big believer as I am in sticking through thick and thin but even I would've bailed on this guy. I know it will take her some time to find a job and honestly doubt he will be considered employable at all. Then they will need to save for first and last months rent for a decent apartment and (if history is any indicator) a newed used car because their current one will be on the last legs. That could easily run into several months. I will not be able to hold my tongue for that long. So, how can I say no to her without destroying our relationship. I just can't deal with him for more than 2-3 days (which is how long their visits normally last).
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 19, 2014 9:10:57 GMT -5
YOur house is all torn up right now, right? Not in shape for visitors.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 19, 2014 9:15:28 GMT -5
Umm, I don't really know what you should say, but she is asking for A LOT.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 19, 2014 9:16:41 GMT -5
She kinda hinted around maybe moving in with us (the job market is much better in my area) while they look for a job. I told her I'd need to discuss options with DH. She kind if hinted, or she asked? if you have to discuss with DH, make him the bad guy and tell them that he said you won't be able to make it work.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 19, 2014 9:27:56 GMT -5
Umm, I don't really know what you should say, but she is asking for A LOT. His family is useless (shocker) and I have a feeling they used up all the favors possible from her family over the years. I also suspect we may be the last (or one of the last) resorts. They literally have nothing, no cushion, nothing. An annual (relatively cheap) get togther we have done for the past 25+ years didn't happen this year because of finances. I offered to cover their share but she didn't want to impose. Which is why I'm kinda thinking their options are now very limited. I know I will have to say no. If it were only her and the kids's I'd even feel guilty about it. But with her husband, there's no way.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 19, 2014 9:31:27 GMT -5
She kinda hinted around maybe moving in with us (the job market is much better in my area) while they look for a job. I told her I'd need to discuss options with DH. She kind if hinted, or she asked? if you have to discuss with DH, make him the bad guy and tell them that he said you won't be able to make it work. It was strong hints, but not outright asking. More like - I need ideas about how we can transition to your area to job search without paying for an apartment up front. I actually think I have a better reason. We've got family stuff of our own going on and I may need to have an in-law move in with us for several months on short notice. One of the reasons why we bought this house. Thinking about how I can offer a "loan" or something to get them started. Yes, I don't expect to get paid back.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Sept 19, 2014 9:37:11 GMT -5
She kinda hinted around maybe moving in with us (the job market is much better in my area) while they look for a job. I told her I'd need to discuss options with DH. She kind if hinted, or she asked? if you have to discuss with DH, make him the bad guy and tell them that he said you won't be able to make it work. Basically this has worked well for us. I am the fall guy when she wants to say no to her family and she is the fall gal when I want to say no to my family.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 19, 2014 9:39:26 GMT -5
I would be extremely reluctant to let ANYONE move in with me for an unspecified period of time. This is especially true for someone who's husband you despise. It's clear you can't let them move in with you.
I don't really see any way of saying "no" without hurting her feelings. I guess you can come up with some excuse about why you can't do it, rather than "your husband is an ass."
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 19, 2014 9:41:59 GMT -5
I think that's about the best you can do Thecaptain. If you want to live a "loan" just treat it like a gift.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 19, 2014 9:43:56 GMT -5
Captain, a loan isn't going to help. If you loan them money now, they'll be back very shortly for more. I think you know that. It sounds like you've got the housing issue solved with the prospect of your relative moving in. You just can't take them in.
Sometimes, the need for "tough love" rears its ugly head and we have to heed the call. The only one who can help this woman is - this woman. She needs to cut the dead wood (her useless DH) and get herself together. She's no spring chicken and doesn't have much time to put things right for herself. He's nothing more than a drain. Her kids need her to get it together, and she needs that for herself. It might cost you the relationship. Sometimes, it does; however, it's the most caring thing to do. You can't fix her issues.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 19, 2014 9:52:39 GMT -5
Test the friendship. Simply tell her it is not a good time to increase the number of folks in your household for any length of time. If she is a good friend, she will not push the issue and simply state she understands.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 19, 2014 9:55:14 GMT -5
instead of giving them a loan, pay the security deposit and first month rent on an apartment in your area, and give her some job leads.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Sept 19, 2014 9:56:23 GMT -5
There is no way I would let her (or them) move in. I would help them with first and last. Even if it's a couple grand that you never get back, it will save you ten fold that in stress and aggravation.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Sept 19, 2014 10:03:50 GMT -5
instead of giving them a loan, pay the security deposit and first month rent on an apartment in your area, and give her some job leads. I like this idea. You could even suggest some apt complexes that might be a good fit for her family and mention something like "I"ll pay your security deposit as a housewarming present"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 10:05:53 GMT -5
Won't she qualify for unemployment insurance? I'm really soft hearted (don't laugh! I am so! ) and I wouldn't do it.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 19, 2014 10:17:37 GMT -5
Won't she qualify for unemployment insurance? I'm really soft hearted (don't laugh! I am so! ) and I wouldn't do it. The maximum family benefits in our state (we both live in the same state) are around $400 per week for a maximum of 25 weeks and there is a 1 or 2 week waiting period (for which no benefits are paid). Since her income is lower than the max (I'm assuming based on their financial situation) she likely will get less than that. In any event, with four mouths to feed and other expenses to pay this won't even cover slum rents in my area. I don't know how the new health exchanges work. Since her husband has (of course) a pre-existing condition she's always picked up cobra the last two times she was in-between jobs. I've stopped trying to teach her about finances but this is why you always have an EF!!! FWIW - she has Never asked me for help before even though it's been obvious our careers and lives took very different paths.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 19, 2014 10:18:59 GMT -5
Captain, a loan isn't going to help. If you loan them money now, they'll be back very shortly for more. I think you know that. It sounds like you've got the housing issue solved with the prospect of your relative moving in. You just can't take them in. Sometimes, the need for "tough love" rears its ugly head and we have to heed the call. The only one who can help this woman is - this woman. She needs to cut the dead wood (her useless DH) and get herself together. She's no spring chicken and doesn't have much time to put things right for herself. He's nothing more than a drain. Her kids need her to get it together, and she needs that for herself. It might cost you the relationship. Sometimes, it does; however, it's the most caring thing to do. You can't fix her issues. On one level I know you're right, but let me ask. If it were your sister or daughter wwyd? I freaking hate that she's in the position now, and has been in it before.
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kristinkle
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Post by kristinkle on Sept 19, 2014 10:23:23 GMT -5
Since she didn't come right out and ask if she could stay, you could maybe bring it up first and say something to the extent of, "I have been thinking about this alot and I would love to have you all stay here but I may need the space on short notice for .... How about you start sending your resume out to employers around here and if you get interviews and need to stay over just stay with me. Also, I understand that you aren't comfortable accepting money from me but how about if you do find a job here, I will lend you security and first month's rent (groceries - whatever) and then you can pay me back at if you feel like you need to, $25.00 per month. I would love to be able to do this for you."
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Sept 19, 2014 10:27:39 GMT -5
Captain, a loan isn't going to help. If you loan them money now, they'll be back very shortly for more. I think you know that. It sounds like you've got the housing issue solved with the prospect of your relative moving in. You just can't take them in. Sometimes, the need for "tough love" rears its ugly head and we have to heed the call. The only one who can help this woman is - this woman. She needs to cut the dead wood (her useless DH) and get herself together. She's no spring chicken and doesn't have much time to put things right for herself. He's nothing more than a drain. Her kids need her to get it together, and she needs that for herself. It might cost you the relationship. Sometimes, it does; however, it's the most caring thing to do. You can't fix her issues. On one level I know you're right, but let me ask. If it were your sister or daughter wwyd? I freaking hate that she's in the position now, and has been in it before. If she's been in this position before, and is in it again, I see one big red flag here...this time won't be her last time. If you can gift her the money and afford to lose it, that's fine. But I don't see how you can have an extra family in your new and unsettled home right now. You're a nice person (something I know for a fact ) but this request just stretches the bounds of friendship for me. And if her douchecanoe husband has used up all his family's favors, in spite of the fact that they have kids, that's pretty serious. That means even his family won't take on their hot mess, despite the presence of the children. And I don't think it's fair to do the sister/daughter/wwyd comparison. Family blood is thicker than anything, and I think most of us would offer help in that scenario. We can always make other friends if and when we choose. Generally, the family we have is all we've got.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 19, 2014 10:37:49 GMT -5
And I don't think it's fair to do the sister/daughter/wwyd comparison. Family blood is thicker than anything, and I think most of us would offer help in that scenario. We can always make other friends if and when we choose. Generally, the family we have is all we've got. For the most part I agree with you...BUT - I have family that I know for a fact is a waste of the air they breath and that is being generous. They would never get anything from me, ever. As far as my friend goes, we've been through a lot together. This is the one who's mom committed suicide when she was 11 and her dad died when she was in college and her stepmom cut her off financially. She had a bit of a crappy life so I can kinda see why staying together with her husband (especially with kids) is so damned important to her. I may not agree, but I can understand it at some level. When DH and I were going through our rough patch she was the one I could vent to openly (couldn't with my family for many reasons) so we've been there to support each other for many years.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 19, 2014 10:38:43 GMT -5
instead of giving them a loan, pay the security deposit and first month rent on an apartment in your area, and give her some job leads. I doubt a landlord would rent unless at least one of them actually had a job. You've been friends a long time. Can you be honest (and tactful) with her? Something like: "Look, we've been friends long enough that I am going to be very very honest. I simply cannot take your husband into my house because I don't respect him. He hasn't (imo) stepped up to his responsibility to you and your children. So.... if it was just you and the kids, the answer would be "we'd make it work - at least for a while", but not your husband.
I am sorry, but I have to be honest and hope you understand"....
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 19, 2014 10:39:33 GMT -5
I would have no problem telling her that I would take in her and her kids, but not her husband. I'm not sure if that makes me cold hearted or not... I wouldn't be mean or get into the details of why unless she really pushed the issue.
But I also think that helping with the security deposit and first months rent is a better idea than even having her and the kids move in with you.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Sept 19, 2014 11:08:56 GMT -5
How old are the 2 youngest kids? If the youngest just graduated high school do either one of them have jobs? With just one vehicle I'm guessing no, but don't want to assume. What are their plans after high school? College? Or will they be with their parents for a while? Not sure how your area is for walkability, but is it possible to direct them to an area of town (an apartment complex) that is close to businesses or public transportation? And, FWIW, I agree with GG & Rao about being honest about your feelings towards her husband, but at the same time, I don't know if I'd tell her you'd take her in if only he wasn't with her. Deep down she probably knows she should've left him and that would only make her feel even worse about her current situation. Sorry both she and you are dealing with this.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Sept 19, 2014 11:12:32 GMT -5
And I don't think it's fair to do the sister/daughter/wwyd comparison. Family blood is thicker than anything, and I think most of us would offer help in that scenario. We can always make other friends if and when we choose. Generally, the family we have is all we've got. For the most part I agree with you...BUT - I have family that I know for a fact is a waste of the air they breath and that is being generous. They would never get anything from me, ever.As far as my friend goes, we've been through a lot together. This is the one who's mom committed suicide when she was 11 and her dad died when she was in college and her stepmom cut her off financially. She had a bit of a crappy life so I can kinda see why staying together with her husband (especially with kids) is so damned important to her. I may not agree, but I can understand it at some level. When DH and I were going through our rough patch she was the one I could vent to openly (couldn't with my family for many reasons) so we've been there to support each other for many years. Same here. I was doing the generalization thing on that one. And like I said, it's nice that you want to help, and if the circumstances allow it, you likely will. But don't jeopardize anything in your own life (like, yanno, the remnants of your sanity) to do this, unless you can live without whatever you are willing to give up.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Sept 19, 2014 11:13:50 GMT -5
I think that if you let her in - your friendship will end sooner than if you hurt her feelings. So no to the move and wonderful advice about helping when she has an interview.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 19, 2014 11:14:20 GMT -5
Captain, a loan isn't going to help. If you loan them money now, they'll be back very shortly for more. I think you know that. It sounds like you've got the housing issue solved with the prospect of your relative moving in. You just can't take them in. Sometimes, the need for "tough love" rears its ugly head and we have to heed the call. The only one who can help this woman is - this woman. She needs to cut the dead wood (her useless DH) and get herself together. She's no spring chicken and doesn't have much time to put things right for herself. He's nothing more than a drain. Her kids need her to get it together, and she needs that for herself. It might cost you the relationship. Sometimes, it does; however, it's the most caring thing to do. You can't fix her issues. On one level I know you're right, but let me ask. If it were your sister or daughter wwyd? I freaking hate that she's in the position now, and has been in it before. I've had to make that decision with my brother, Captain. He's totally irresponsible. It was a difficult decision. However, I'd watched over the years and loaning him money had never helped to make him more responsible. It had only succeeded in making him more needy and more entitled. I made sure my kids knew I wouldn't be there to bail them out if they got themselves into trouble through poor decision making. I'd help with anything unavoidable or an emergency. Fortunately, they took me seriously and have made good decisions. The few times they needed help it was legitimate and they always paid me back, even though I didn't request it. This gal sounds like she's just floating along, afraid to make waves, and the DH is walking all over her. Unless she learns now and starts thinking of herself and her children, she's destined for a miserable old age. Heck, she's got a miserable present and it's been that way for awhile now. It's time to bite the bullet and get it together, as difficult as that may be. No, "tough love" is never easy. Sometimes, though, it's the most loving thing you can do.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Sept 19, 2014 11:16:13 GMT -5
Once you let them move in, you may have difficulty getting them out again. You may end up going through an eviction process.
As others have said, you cannot fix this person's issues. They are longterm problems and won't be cured with shortterm measures. If their history were different and they had just had a one-time run of bad luck, it would be another matter. In this case, though, you would just be enabling him to keep shirking his responsibilities and her to let him.
It is hard to say "no", but probably your best bet.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Sept 19, 2014 11:21:18 GMT -5
instead of giving them a loan, pay the security deposit and first month rent on an apartment in your area, and give her some job leads. But don't get roped/talked into co-signing anything.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 19, 2014 11:22:14 GMT -5
instead of giving them a loan, pay the security deposit and first month rent on an apartment in your area, and give her some job leads. But don't get roped/talked into co-signing anything. Oh, Jesus, no.
I'll toss money at a problem, but I won't make it my own problem.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Sept 19, 2014 11:22:49 GMT -5
You know, her husband could get a McJob temporarily, while she collects unemployment and looks for a better job for herself. You can tell her she can crash at your place if she's got interviews in your town (if the distance between your homes is feasible for that).
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