swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 14, 2014 6:10:43 GMT -5
interesting. there are a shit(*ad of unhappy people out there. i am sorry to hear that, but at the same time, it explains a lot, like the fact that something like 60% of the country thinks we are heading in the wrong direction. i mean, i can understand how 40% could think that. i don't think i have ever met a member of my own party that thinks we are heading the right way. and i guess it is not surprising that 1/3 of the rest of the population feels that way too, based on what i see here. i know dem is happy. anyone else? I'm doing fine. But I know a lot of people who aren't. My my husband is looking at a 2% pay cut next year as the hospital is facing declining revenues. We will still be doing fine.
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 14, 2014 8:20:40 GMT -5
interesting. there are a shit(*ad of unhappy people out there. i am sorry to hear that, but at the same time, it explains a lot, like the fact that something like 60% of the country thinks we are heading in the wrong direction. i mean, i can understand how 40% could think that. i don't think i have ever met a member of my own party that thinks we are heading the right way. and i guess it is not surprising that 1/3 of the rest of the population feels that way too, based on what i see here. i know dem is happy. anyone else? The fact of the matter in most of the country, even if a family is doing well, and ahead of the game, they have children or in-laws who are not in the group. Many companies, other than big institutional companies, are not hiring full time. 27 hours a week or less without any or very few benefits at best, so between the underemployed and family members who are doing ok, but have other members not doing well, it is not hard to understand why 60% say we are not headed in the right direction. I am in this group. We are doing fine, I have never been unemployed, but have one son who has struggled for years, is able bodied, sound mine, and in-laws as well as siblings who have been under employed or unemployed, and most are not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel just yet. Plenty of part time jobs with little benefits out there, now above minimum wage, so I imagine things are turning around. We just need more full time jobs.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 14, 2014 8:23:26 GMT -5
In three weeks I retire, so another full time position becomes available. My position goes to someone inside the organization, who already is full time. Whether that person who replaces me, is replaced by one full time person or two part time people is the issue across America right now.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 14, 2014 8:44:50 GMT -5
We have a friend we were speaking to last night. Her son was one of those who got a law degree and no job so he joined the military. Was in Germany for almost 4 years. Came back with a skill that I can't even understand even though he explained it twice but sounds good. He got ONE job offer. In England. He hopes his security clearance will go up higher after this job and he can get something in the states. My old school system hasn't hired anyone new for 7 years now. Anyone retiring is either not replaced or replaced with someone part time to full time finally but the insurance, if they choose it, surely eats up their raise. No special needs child has a full time aide even if its mandated. No money for it so the system says they have a full time aide but that aide is also responsible for another special needs student as well. Teachers are not replaced either, the few that could afford to retire. No more double dipping, either. No drop system being used. Wonders of all wonders, some admins have had to go back into the classroom. At their admin pay of course, but still, they were supposed to be used as subs as far back as 2007, and it never happened!! DF is sorry he hired on the guy he did and says he should have hired two part timers instead. Its everywhere. Want a full time job? Something medical still.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 14, 2014 10:10:05 GMT -5
interesting. there are a shit(*ad of unhappy people out there. i am sorry to hear that, but at the same time, it explains a lot, like the fact that something like 60% of the country thinks we are heading in the wrong direction. i mean, i can understand how 40% could think that. i don't think i have ever met a member of my own party that thinks we are heading the right way. and i guess it is not surprising that 1/3 of the rest of the population feels that way too, based on what i see here. i know dem is happy. anyone else? I'm happy. Got a 9% raise this year and making more than I have ever made. Our company is thriving and our office more than doubled the number of employees in the last year and are looking to hire more.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 14, 2014 10:33:17 GMT -5
In three weeks I retire, so another full time position becomes available. My position goes to someone inside the organization, who already is full time. Whether that person who replaces me, is replaced by one full time person or two part time people is the issue across America right now. Congratulations on your retirement, VB! Enjoy!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 14, 2014 11:52:47 GMT -5
interesting. there are a shit(*ad of unhappy people out there. i am sorry to hear that, but at the same time, it explains a lot, like the fact that something like 60% of the country thinks we are heading in the wrong direction. i mean, i can understand how 40% could think that. i don't think i have ever met a member of my own party that thinks we are heading the right way. and i guess it is not surprising that 1/3 of the rest of the population feels that way too, based on what i see here. i know dem is happy. anyone else? The fact of the matter in most of the country, even if a family is doing well, and ahead of the game, they have children or in-laws who are not in the group. Many companies, other than big institutional companies, are not hiring full time. 27 hours a week or less without any or very few benefits at best,
this is the latest meme, but it is not really true, VB. look at this chart:
what this illustrates is that of the 9M jobs created since the end of the recession, 90% of them were full time.
now it is true that THIS YEAR, most of the jobs created are part time. whether that continues is another matter entirely. my guess is, it won't, as the supply of labor that is willing to put up with PT is drying up.
so between the underemployed and family members who are doing ok, but have other members not doing well, it is not hard to understand why 60% say we are not headed in the right direction. I am in this group. We are doing fine, I have never been unemployed, but have one son who has struggled for years, is able bodied, sound mine, and in-laws as well as siblings who have been under employed or unemployed, and most are not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel just yet. Plenty of part time jobs with little benefits out there, now above minimum wage, so I imagine things are turning around. We just need more full time jobs. we just need businesses to stop being pussies about healthcare. that is what we need.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 14, 2014 11:54:24 GMT -5
i want all of you to note what happened DURING the recession: part time work SOARED: 9M FT jobs were lost, and 3M PT jobs were created. and that has not really corrected. taking population growth into account, there are about 1.5M more PT jobs than we "need" right now (to be roughly the equivalent of where we were in 2000, relatively speaking).
maybe THAT is what VB was talking about. but since the recovery started, the vast majority of new jobs are full time.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 14, 2014 11:56:05 GMT -5
interesting. there are a shit(*ad of unhappy people out there. i am sorry to hear that, but at the same time, it explains a lot, like the fact that something like 60% of the country thinks we are heading in the wrong direction. i mean, i can understand how 40% could think that. i don't think i have ever met a member of my own party that thinks we are heading the right way. and i guess it is not surprising that 1/3 of the rest of the population feels that way too, based on what i see here. i know dem is happy. anyone else? I'm happy. Got a 9% raise this year and making more than I have ever made. Our company is thriving and our office more than doubled the number of employees in the last year and are looking to hire more. what industry are you employed in, Angel?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 14, 2014 12:00:03 GMT -5
We have a friend we were speaking to last night. Her son was one of those who got a law degree and no job so he joined the military. Was in Germany for almost 4 years. Came back with a skill that I can't even understand even though he explained it twice but sounds good. He got ONE job offer. In England. He hopes his security clearance will go up higher after this job and he can get something in the states. My old school system hasn't hired anyone new for 7 years now. Anyone retiring is either not replaced or replaced with someone part time to full time finally but the insurance, if they choose it, surely eats up their raise. this is a very real problem. but it has been for about (14) years now. take home pay has been dropping that entire time because of this issue.No special needs child has a full time aide even if its mandated. No money for it so the system says they have a full time aide but that aide is also responsible for another special needs student as well. Teachers are not replaced either, the few that could afford to retire. No more double dipping, either. No drop system being used. Wonders of all wonders, some admins have had to go back into the classroom. At their admin pay of course, but still, they were supposed to be used as subs as far back as 2007, and it never happened!! DF is sorry he hired on the guy he did and says he should have hired two part timers instead. Its everywhere. Want a full time job? Something medical still. thanks for your input, zib. very helpful.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 14, 2014 14:21:05 GMT -5
I'm happy. Got a 9% raise this year and making more than I have ever made. Our company is thriving and our office more than doubled the number of employees in the last year and are looking to hire more. what industry are you employed in, Angel? Transportation engineering. We hung on better than most competitors during the recession. Most of our bigger competitors actually just pulled out the city we are in completely because their wasn't enough work. As a result we were in a much better position to start winning the work when the projects started coming back. Some of it is the local economy, but with the tax revenues recovering there has been tons of work for us.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 14, 2014 16:00:28 GMT -5
We're not doing that badly here. We're not burning 'em up, but we're doing okay and seeing improvement. Granted, most businesses are concentrating on having the jobs of three people done by one (part time, if they can push the poor grunt that hard), but that's sure not anything new. All in all, though, we're seeing light ahead. There are jobs for those who are capable of filling the positions. It's still rough going for the older job seekers and the new college grads, I'm afraid. I really am not seeing anything I wouldn't have expected. In fact, I think it's a bit better than I expected.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 11:36:11 GMT -5
The only thing that seems to be suffering in my area is the regional hospital. From a high of about 1500 employees 10 years ago to about 900 now. Most let go during the last year. Every thing else seems to be plodding along with no great moves up or down. Of course this is a rural/agricultural area with some seasonal tourism. The number of new business' that open in town (nearest to me) seem to about match the number that close.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 15, 2014 13:08:27 GMT -5
Opti- i like you, but you too are missing my point. in fact, i think you need to read post 11. i mentioned your name in it. i never claimed we should put our feet up on the Ottoman. i never claimed that the job is OVER. it isn't. there are way too many LTUE. there are not enough FT workers. i concede that. but can't you just, amidst all of your personal suffering, acknowledge that UE has dropped 4% and nearly 10M people have found SOME SORT OF WORK? ies seriously, the mood on this thread is baffling. DJ I know its improving.
The mood isn't that baffling. You are living a different type of weekend than I am. I just short with a nurse tonight when she whined about the fact my break to run to the closest grocery store might take more than 15 minutes and how WOULD she know when I was back? So, I said here's the clipboard with all the Front Desk info I am leaving with you in the nursing office(temp) and you'll know I am back when I come to get it. She thought it was OK that the nursing supervisor refuse his duties to cover he Front desk for those 15 or so minutes, but apparently it was *just* *TOO* *much* that I dared go get food and not wait until after 8PM to buy food at the grocery store at eat dinner.
Further, The nursing supervisor is probably in his low 30s, The RN, who I normally love, is 47.
I am 54. I realized while waiting in line Wednesday twice and working in Princeton Wed/Thurs, that those born 1985 or later should to me. In the 18 years from 1985 to 2003 I did a lot. I was happy Thursday. I was not happy and depressed Friday. Hopefully Monday I'll be happier again and I'll ni
I find this very telling. Why in the would do you think someone should bow down to you simply because you are older than them? Especially since, based on what you've posted, you haven't done much in the past decade to demonstrate your skills to the younger generation? At some point we all have to acknowledge that we may report to someone younger than us. Personally, we also need to acknowledge that the younger generation(s) have something to offer as well.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 13:49:27 GMT -5
interesting. there are a shit(*ad of unhappy people out there. i am sorry to hear that, but at the same time, it explains a lot, like the fact that something like 60% of the country thinks we are heading in the wrong direction. i mean, i can understand how 40% could think that. i don't think i have ever met a member of my own party that thinks we are heading the right way. and i guess it is not surprising that 1/3 of the rest of the population feels that way too, based on what i see here. i know dem is happy. anyone else? Yeah, dem is pretty happy, especially after a vacation.
However I do get that overall economic growth is tepid at best, in that wages have still not gone up for most of us (including me). I brought back my wage this summer to restore the 10% cut that was made 4 years ago.
omg. we are so much alike. 30%, here.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 15, 2014 13:59:32 GMT -5
DJ I know its improving.
The mood isn't that baffling. You are living a different type of weekend than I am. I just short with a nurse tonight when she whined about the fact my break to run to the closest grocery store might take more than 15 minutes and how WOULD she know when I was back? So, I said here's the clipboard with all the Front Desk info I am leaving with you in the nursing office(temp) and you'll know I am back when I come to get it. She thought it was OK that the nursing supervisor refuse his duties to cover he Front desk for those 15 or so minutes, but apparently it was *just* *TOO* *much* that I dared go get food and not wait until after 8PM to buy food at the grocery store at eat dinner.
Further, The nursing supervisor is probably in his low 30s, The RN, who I normally love, is 47.
I am 54. I realized while waiting in line Wednesday twice and working in Princeton Wed/Thurs, that those born 1985 or later should to me. In the 18 years from 1985 to 2003 I did a lot. I was happy Thursday. I was not happy and depressed Friday. Hopefully Monday I'll be happier again and I'll ni
I find this very telling. Why in the would do you think someone should bow down to you simply because you are older than them? Especially since, based on what you've posted, you haven't done much in the past decade to demonstrate your skills to the younger generation? At some point we all have to acknowledge that we may report to someone younger than us. Personally, we also need to acknowledge that the younger generation(s) have something to offer as well. No kidding! I was the Nursing Supervisor and didn't retire until I was 70. It's more than possible the Nursing Supervisor had more on his plate than was realized, as everything he's doing isn't going to be known by, nor obvious to everyone. You didn't hear me whining about having to run around like a rabid squirrel at 70. It was my damned job to take responsibility for that entire hospital from 7pm until 7am and I wasn't always able to sit myself down and cover for someone. In an emergency, I had to get up and go and I had to do it NOW.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 15, 2014 14:05:15 GMT -5
interesting. there are a shit(*ad of unhappy people out there. i am sorry to hear that, but at the same time, it explains a lot, like the fact that something like 60% of the country thinks we are heading in the wrong direction. i mean, i can understand how 40% could think that. i don't think i have ever met a member of my own party that thinks we are heading the right way. and i guess it is not surprising that 1/3 of the rest of the population feels that way too, based on what i see here. i know dem is happy. anyone else? Yeah, dem is pretty happy, especially after a vacation.
However I do get that overall economic growth is tepid at best, in that wages have still not gone up for most of us (including me). I brought back my wage this summer to restore the 10% cut that was made 4 years ago. The cuts were across the board, and management were the last to have them restored. (finally- yay!) On the other hand, I could most afford it. In addition, wages have not gone up for anyone.
This may change soon. I am now having the same reaction to help wanted queries that you are dj. Little response, and those that are well qualified that do apply seem to want a bucket of money. But this is a somewhat specialized and skilled subset. Many people I know have not yet started to do well economically, despite some favorable economic trends.
I think there are some really negative headwinds though that are bigger than the typical boom- bust cycle. I think the race to cheap labor internationally is finally catching up to us. I think the demise of the unions is catching up to us. The mis-education in our "higher" education system has certainly caught up to us for many fields.
Some of our collective hand wringing is a bit overwrought. Some here point out that we now expect 2,000 sf homes, 2 cars, multiple tvs and electronics, vacations, etc., and that our middle class expectations have changed. There is some truth to this. However our middle class security seems to have declined. The jobs don't last "forever" anymore. Many are one paycheck away from financial turmoil. The healthcare debacle that we can't seem to address impoverishes many, especially when the middle class lifestyle is now more precarious than it once was, and along with unstable job prospects, many face unstable healthcare prospects as well.
Now our wonderful 20th century middle class society wasn't really around for all that many years. But our American ethos of each generation doing better than the previous has been around for a long time, and for many this now seems unattainable. This is a brutal reality.
i am going to pull a Paul-like soapbox routine, here. for half a century, we have been systematically undermining the trades in the US. this has been a multifaceted attack, and some of it has been unintended (ie- encouraging kids to seek white collar professions). some of it has been 100% intentional (undermining union's ability to organize, and using bankruptcy and exporting of factories to low wage locations). but the result is that very few kids are either able, or even DESIRE to have backgrounds for manufacturing in the US- and that makes us extremely vulnerable. i remember during the time that Perot ran (dating myself), he extolled the virtues of the service economy. like Bush's claim about home ownership, nobody questioned it. i pointed out at the time that service jobs, on average, pay HALF what manufacturing jobs do- and that we are in no way helping ourselves, in the short, intermediate, or long term by encouraging this type of employment (which is intrinsically more mobile, as well) over more skilled labor. i can't remember anyone outside of my field listening. i was routinely laughed at by people in the service sector. but there is another aspect of "serving" that i loathe. if you are "serving" someone, that means THEY are completely in control. by making ourselves a "service economy" we are basically enslaving ourselves to others- putting our entire economic existence at THEIR mercy and whim. so, i am really not too keen on service industries in general, except those that are highly skilled and can't readily be exported (ie- emergency services, plumbers, healthcare). we really need to focus on stuff that makes us money and keeps us independent, as a nation. sooner better than later, please.
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 18, 2014 10:07:49 GMT -5
I see DJ did not comment on Janet Yellen's comments yesterday. She stated the country is still suffering from: The markets are creating jobs, BUT, we still have high unemployment underemployment Way too many part time jobs being created, and not enough full time jobs being created The number of people not seeking employment because they have fallen off the cliff is huge. Job creation is not at the level the country needs to return to economic norms. Therefore the Fed rate will remain low.
There you have it dj, the Fed says it is bad out there, regardless of your claims to the contrary.
What is the old saying, If it looks like a... if it walks like a ..... And if it quacks like a ... It's a .......
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 18, 2014 10:24:00 GMT -5
I see DJ did not comment on Janet Yellen's comments yesterday.
i didn't hear or read them.
She stated the country is still suffering from: The markets are creating jobs, BUT, we still have high unemployment
it's not really high, imo. but it is "less than full employment".
underemployment Way too many part time jobs being created, and not enough full time jobs being created
this year? yes. since 2010? no. 90% of jobs created since 2010 are full time.
The number of people not seeking employment because they have fallen off the cliff is huge.
1/3 of the people who have "fallen off a cliff" retired. some of them quit because the primary bread winner is making enough to support the house. some of them went back to college, or are retraining for other work. and yes, some are chronically unemployed. but they are a minority.
Job creation is not at the level the country needs to return to economic norms.
totally false. i already projected this out. it will take 5-7 years to reach full employment.
Therefore the Fed rate will remain low.
There you have it dj, the Fed says it is bad out there, regardless of your claims to the contrary.
no, what we have is the Fed wanting to keep the economy rolling to make up for how bad it WAS.
What is the old saying, If it looks like a... if it walks like a ..... And if it quacks like a ... It's a ....... if it looks like a recovery, it is a recovery. people act like this is still a recession.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 18, 2014 10:58:49 GMT -5
It most assuredly does. Try to find trained manufacturing people. Just about impossible.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 18, 2014 11:05:59 GMT -5
It most assuredly does. Try to find trained manufacturing people. Just about impossible. Several of the manufacturers in our area are working with the local community colleges to train people to meet their needs. It seems to be working pretty well for them.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 18, 2014 11:08:23 GMT -5
Unfortunately this area still is pressuring kids to go to college or they're losers. So we have all kinds of philosophy majors but no one that can run a machine.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 18, 2014 11:48:36 GMT -5
Yeah, there are some negatives out there, especially on individual levels for some, but in a macro-economic sense the economic signs are good and getting better. Especially given where we've come from.
that's the thing. we will be telling our grandkids about this one. it was BAD. worst downturn since the depression. and yeah. things are probably, now, about where they are after an AVERAGE recession = not great. but compared to shedding 500k jobs a month? this is heaven.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 18, 2014 16:49:41 GMT -5
Yup, I'm lucky to be unloading my huge albatross of a house. If it weren't for the fact that she's got 5 kids and couldn't rent anywhere she'd like to live, I'd still be stuck with it. As it is, taxpayers are funding a lot of her lifestyle.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 16:49:44 GMT -5
It most assuredly does. Try to find trained manufacturing people. Just about impossible. That's because they priced themselves out of existence with their Union demands and striking if they didn't like the color of the toilet paper on the employee bathrooms... Manufacturing didn't leave the country because the materials became scarce. They left because reasonable wages were no longer "acceptable" by the employees.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 16:51:28 GMT -5
Unfortunately this area still is pressuring kids to go to college or they're losers. So we have all kinds of philosophy majors but no one that can run a machine. There is a lot of truth to this.
The guy that can run the machine probably also makes more than the Philosophy major.
And that's exactly why manufacturing jobs are going out of country...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 18, 2014 16:56:01 GMT -5
This area pays very well for skilled labor. I think DF, being a small business, might not have to unionize. As it is, his employees are paid very well and still have their and their dependent insurance coverage paid for. I know he said one time some union idiot called his dad and wanted to meet with employees. His dad flat out told them, the union, that he'd close his business and take it and the jobs elsewhere and he would have. There was still under 25 employees then so I think the union figured they weren't worth the hassle. DF has under 10 now. As people leave, he doesn't replace them. He has two kids he hired as favors to already employed employees and he sorely regrets it already. There's a reason they were still unemployed at their ages because the job market here is nice for those seeking jobs but you have to be reliable and drug free. Both of which these two are not. DF told both people that they are related to that if there are any issues, they are all fired. So the ones that got their family members hired keep an eye on them big time.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 18, 2014 17:24:48 GMT -5
There is a lot of truth to this.
The guy that can run the machine probably also makes more than the Philosophy major.
And that's exactly why manufacturing jobs are going out of country... i guess. i love philosophy, but there is not much value for it in a capitalistic system. but give me a guy that can lay a good weld.......now that is worth something.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 18, 2014 17:45:04 GMT -5
They left because they were undercut by labor that still lives in mud huts, uses a currency that's extremely weak against the dollar, and has a government in place that will manipulate said currency however possible to keep it that way. Free trade, not union, agreements killed US manufacturing. capital mobility only works well with high automation, low skills, and the actual ability to offshore. autos are basically perfect foil. lumber makes no sense to offshore. custom equipment that requires a lot of specialized engineering is extremely difficult to offshore. we saw this happen in the textile industry: low skilled labor, high automation. it has been gone for a generation. autos and heavy manufacturing are next. some things will NEVER leave. EVER. edit: i think the next revolution will be in high skilled robots. that will bring ROBOT jobs back to he US. being a robot mechanic is a good meal ticket here, imo. and this is why i have serious doubts that India and China will ever reach the level of economic security of the US.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 17:50:02 GMT -5
They left because they were undercut by labor that still lives in mud huts, uses a currency that's extremely weak against the dollar, and has a government in place that will manipulate said currency however possible to keep it that way. Free trade, not union, agreements killed US manufacturing. And how do you think (when you include the cost of transporting the manufactured goods back here) they managed to undercut us? Overinflated wages courtesy of unions and employees with a slightly over-elevated opinion of their worth. We didn't need to stay at "slave wages"... but we also didn't need to go to $20 an hour PLUS "benefits" (making it realistically more like $30-$50 in cost to the employer... or more an hour). We DEFINITELY didn't need to go to Auto Worker pay of about $70 (including benefits) per hour.
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