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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:05:39 GMT -5
with "scut work" you can leave and maybe- MAYBE- find something better. i will grant you that. but with slavery, you don't have bills to pay, you don't have to worry about getting kicked out of your house, and you probably have your basic needs taken care of, cradle-to-grave.
assuming that you are not getting abused in the slavery relationship, which is better, and why?
edit: for the comparison to be fair, the conditions in which you live should necessarily be similar, ie = no disposable income in either. basic needs only.
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Post by Shooby on Sept 8, 2013 21:08:49 GMT -5
What is the diff between slavery as defined by you and welfare?
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:10:50 GMT -5
What is the diff between slavery as defined by you and welfare? you don't have to work on welfare. therefore, rather than slopping up someone's grease, you can darn socks 8 hours a day, or play your clarinet. in terms of income, there is theoretically no difference at all. edit: i should also add that for me, at least, charity is also degrading. i don't need that, or desire it. so, i am not sure which of these two options would be worse for me. i refuse to believe, for myself anyway, that there is NOT a third option. PS- if you don't like my definition, give me yours.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 8, 2013 21:19:22 GMT -5
You really don't know the difference?
And welfare has nothing to do with the topic.
I thought slavery (in the context that dj describes it) was abolished long ago (at least in the US) during the Emancipation Proclamation in 1833.
If there's another point you're trying to make dj, maybe you can be less obscure.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:22:24 GMT -5
You really don't know the difference?
And welfare has nothing to do with the topic.
I thought slavery (in the context that dj describes it) was abolished long ago (at least in the US) during the Emancipation Proclamation in 1833.
If there's another point you're trying to make dj, maybe you can be less obscure. i am comparing the two. you can compare today to 1850. it is really not that obscure. well, not for me anyway. look, most dystopian novels talk about slavery in future tense. i am suggesting that you entertain that notion, if you can't get past the discussion any other way.
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2013 21:23:48 GMT -5
with "s*&t work" you can leave and maybe- MAYBE- find something better. i will grant you that. but with slavery, you don't have bills to pay, you don't have to worry about getting kicked out of your house, and you probably have your basic needs taken care of, cradle-to-grave. assuming that you are not getting abused in the slavery relationship, which is better, and why? (apologies to Virgil- i really don't know a better way of putting this than s*&t work. s*&t work is, for the record, the most abusive work out there. it is work that is of such low merit that it is basically used as punishment) Need more information. If the slave refuses to work, what becomes of him?
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:26:54 GMT -5
with "s*&t work" you can leave and maybe- MAYBE- find something better. i will grant you that. but with slavery, you don't have bills to pay, you don't have to worry about getting kicked out of your house, and you probably have your basic needs taken care of, cradle-to-grave. assuming that you are not getting abused in the slavery relationship, which is better, and why? Need more information. If the slave refuses to work, what becomes of him? well, since the people that were questioning me on this seem to think that scut work is something that people should just do, i think the best approach is to assume that the work will not be refused. in other words, let's assume that the same motivations that exist for the wage slave (not to starve, or to become homeless) exist for the slave.
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 8, 2013 21:27:00 GMT -5
I've always called what you're describing "scut work", dj.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:28:15 GMT -5
I've always called what you're describing "scut work", dj. i have never heard that term. has anyone else?
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 8, 2013 21:32:14 GMT -5
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2013 21:33:00 GMT -5
I imagine Southern slaves considered picking cotton 10-12 hours a day in very hot and humid conditions 'shitwork' and clearly not of their choosing. Anyone of them would gladly have changed places with the house slaves.
ETA: fear of seperation from their family, sold to slave owners far worse, or simply killed kept the slaves in check.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:36:39 GMT -5
I imagine Southern slaves considered picking cotton 10-12 hours a day in very hot and humid conditions 'shitwork' and clesrly not of their choosing. Anyone of them would gladly have changed places with the house slaves. you are comparing two different types of slavery. how about comparing the house slaves to the guy mopping floors at Denny's at 3AM for minimum wage who is routinely 10 days late on rent and eating mac and cheese because of his s(*t pay?
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:38:15 GMT -5
I imagine Southern slaves considered picking cotton 10-12 hours a day in very hot and humid conditions 'shitwork' and clearly not of their choosing. Anyone of them would gladly have changed places with the house slaves. ETA: fear of seperation from their family, sold to slave owners far worse, or simply killed kept the slaves in check. i am suggesting that you don't use the exception here to prove the rule. most slaves were probably reasonably well cared for, so long as they didn't insubordinate, which is what we are assuming here, for purposes of discussion. note: if you think i am limiting the discussion too much for it to be meaningful, just say "slavery is worse".
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 8, 2013 21:38:42 GMT -5
I've always called what you're describing "scut work", dj. We call it "grunge work" or "grunge jobs" here. But everyone has to start somewhere.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:39:09 GMT -5
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:39:33 GMT -5
I've always called what you're describing "scut work", dj. We call it "grunge work" or "grunge jobs" here. But everyone has to start somewhere.what if you finish there?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 21:40:30 GMT -5
with "s*&t work" you can leave and maybe- MAYBE- find something better. i will grant you that. but with slavery, you don't have bills to pay, you don't have to worry about getting kicked out of your house, and you probably have your basic needs taken care of, cradle-to-grave. assuming that you are not getting abused in the slavery relationship, which is better, and why? (apologies to Virgil- i really don't know a better way of putting this than s*&t work. s*&t work is, for the record, the most abusive work out there. it is work that is of such low merit that it is basically used as punishment) Need more information. If the slave refuses to work, what becomes of him? I gather that the traditional practice required that the "bad" slave, like the "bad" horse, had to be broken.
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2013 21:42:55 GMT -5
There is dignity in all forms of work. Doesn't mean though mopping Denny's bathroom floors at 0300 isn't 'shitwork'.
Overall? Slavery is worse.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:43:08 GMT -5
Need more information. If the slave refuses to work, what becomes of him? I gather that the traditional practice required that the "bad" slave, like the "bad" horse, had to be broken. but since the scut worker does not need to be broken, instead VOLUNTEERING for it, let's assume that the slave will also not refuse work for purposes of this discussion. otherwise, we are talking about people who don't work, and comparing them to slaves- and that is obviously not a comparison that is going to work for reasons of authority which you have so elegantly expressed.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 21:44:25 GMT -5
There is dignity in all forms of work. i disagree. i think that some work is intrinsically undignified. but i already acknowledged that my position is not prevailing in the US.Doesn't mean though mopping Denny's bathroom floors at 0300 isn't 'shitwork'. Overall? Slavery is worse. why?
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2013 21:52:22 GMT -5
There is dignity in all forms of work. i disagree. i think that some work is intrinsically undignified. but i already acknowledgedthat my position is not prevailing in the US.Doesn't mean though mopping Denny's bathroom floors at 0300 isn't 'shitwork'. Overall? Slavery is worse. why? Using the Denny's guy as an example, he can walk away from that job and usually find another minimum wage (possibly less 'shitty) job, the jobs many of these out-of-work folks seem to think are crappy jobs and beneath them. The Denny's guy is free to pick and choose. The slave cannot.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 22:09:58 GMT -5
Using the Denny's guy as an example, he can walk away from that job and usually find another minimum wage (possibly less 'shitty) job, the jobs many of these out-of-work folks seem to think are crappy jobs and beneath them. The Denny's guy is free to pick and choose. The slave cannot. i acknowledged that he could walk away in the OP. what else? (edit: that is a good reason- i will grant you that one.)
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2013 22:14:09 GMT -5
Using the Denny's guy as an example, he can walk away from that job and usually find another minimum wage (possibly less 'shitty) job, the jobs many of these out-of-work folks seem to think are crappy jobs and beneath them. The Denny's guy is free to pick and choose. The slave cannot. i acknowledged that he could walk away in the OP. what else? He can also move across the street at the end of his lease. The slave cannot. Now do I think 'shitwork' is enjoyable. Nope. It sucks. Emptying nursing home bedpans comes to mind.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 22:19:40 GMT -5
i acknowledged that he could walk away in the OP. what else? He can also move across the street at the end of his lease. The slave cannot. Now do I think 'shitwork' is enjoyable. Nope. It sucks. Emptying nursing home bedpans comes to mind. that is precisely the kind of work i meant. find meaning in THAT.
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2013 22:43:56 GMT -5
He can also move across the street at the end of his lease. The slave cannot. Now do I think 'shitwork' is enjoyable. Nope. It sucks. Emptying nursing home bedpans comes to mind. that is precisely the kind of work i meant. find meaning in THAT. Helping others during their sickness or last days. I admit it is the job no one wants but the bed pans will not empty themselves. Operating the fry-o-lator at McDonalds would be my worst nightmare.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 22:46:39 GMT -5
that is precisely the kind of work i meant. find meaning in THAT. Helping others during their sickness or last days. I admit it is the job no one wants but the bed pans will not empty themselves. Operating the fry-o-lator at McDonalds would be my worst nightmare. LOL! i am sure we all have our nightmare jobs. for me, working out in the hot sun picking tomatoes would be about the end of me. on top of it, it is a pressure job, because it has to happen in 90 days.
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 8, 2013 22:47:28 GMT -5
He can also move across the street at the end of his lease. The slave cannot. Now do I think 'shitwork' is enjoyable. Nope. It sucks. Emptying nursing home bedpans comes to mind. that is precisely the kind of work i meant. find meaning in THAT. I did - for many, many years.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 22:48:28 GMT -5
that is precisely the kind of work i meant. find meaning in THAT. I did - for many, many years. i could never do that job. i am terrible around sick people. major weakness for me.
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 8, 2013 22:58:54 GMT -5
LOL, dj. I would have said the same thing, believe me. Then, I realized how very wrong I was! Any patient in my care was taken care of by me, from the beginning of my career. I didn't want assistance with their care, so I always gave what's called "primary care". What needed to be done was done by me. It's a calling, I think, instead of a job.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 23:02:58 GMT -5
LOL, dj. I would have said the same thing, believe me. Then, I realized how very wrong I was! Any patient in my care was taken care of by me, from the beginning of my career. I didn't want assistance with their care, so I always gave what's called "primary care". What needed to be done was done by me. It's a calling, I think, instead of a job. seriously. i could not do it. i get sick when i see blood. i get queasy when people describe injuries. i am NOT cut out for medicine.
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