mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 8, 2013 23:04:20 GMT -5
Some folks aren't. I didn't think I was, but I found out differently. Some, who are sure it's for them, find out the opposite.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 23:06:31 GMT -5
for the record, i was imagining that you couldn't really change your scut job, except for another scut job. i remember when life was like that for me. i was 15. i could sweep parking lots, or do dishes. then i found picture framing. amazing job. great money, semi-creative work, indoors, well lit, heated in the winter, good boss.....and it paid well- and he was willing to train. THAT would be my fallback job.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2013 23:07:29 GMT -5
I did - for many, many years. i could never do that job. i am terrible around sick people. major weakness for me. Me too. It reminds me of my own mortality.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 23:09:17 GMT -5
i could never do that job. i am terrible around sick people. major weakness for me. Me too. It reminds me of my own mortality. i think that is at least part of it, though i am not particularly afraid of death. the other part is that i am not that big on getting injured. if that forms part of "mortality" for you, then i could just as easily have said "amen".
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2013 23:10:13 GMT -5
for the record, i was imagining that you couldn't really change your scut job, except for another scut job. i remember when life was like that for me. i was 15. i could sweep parking lots, or do dishes. then i found picture framing. amazing job. great money, semi-creative work, indoors, well lit, heated in the winter, good boss.....and it paid well- and he was willing to train. THAT would be my fallback job. I do my own picture framing from cutting mat board to dust covers. Very creative and satisfying work. I wish I had learned it years and years ago.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 23:12:39 GMT -5
for the record, i was imagining that you couldn't really change your scut job, except for another scut job. i remember when life was like that for me. i was 15. i could sweep parking lots, or do dishes. then i found picture framing. amazing job. great money, semi-creative work, indoors, well lit, heated in the winter, good boss.....and it paid well- and he was willing to train. THAT would be my fallback job. I do my own picture framing from cutting mat board to dust covers. Very creative and satisfying work. I wish I had learned it years and years ago. yeah, it is expensive to have it done, and it is not difficult. mostly it takes a good eye, and some minor hand eye skills. you cut your own glass, too? that is also fun.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2013 23:12:55 GMT -5
Me too. It reminds me of my own mortality. i think that is at least part of it, though i am not particularly afraid of death. the other part is that i am not that big on getting injured. if that forms part of "mortality" for you, then i could just as easily have said "amen". I'm not afraid of death. Only the dying part. And I would dread most of all Locked-In Syndrome. Ugh.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 23:14:50 GMT -5
i think that is at least part of it, though i am not particularly afraid of death. the other part is that i am not that big on getting injured. if that forms part of "mortality" for you, then i could just as easily have said "amen". I'm not afraid of death. Only the dying part. And I would dread most of all Locked-In Syndrome. Ugh. interesting distinction. i know it well, having given it a great deal of thought over the years.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 8, 2013 23:18:09 GMT -5
I do my own picture framing from cutting mat board to dust covers. Very creative and satisfying work. I wish I had learned it years and years ago. yeah, it is expensive to have it done, and it is not difficult. mostly it takes a good eye, and some minor hand eye skills. you cut your own glass, too? that is also fun. No on the cutting of glass. I use pre-cut UV protection acrylic 'glass'- lightenes the weight of the overall art object. And as most of my art collection are drawings, I need the UV protection.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2013 23:19:39 GMT -5
yeah, it is expensive to have it done, and it is not difficult. mostly it takes a good eye, and some minor hand eye skills. you cut your own glass, too? that is also fun. No on the cutting of glass. I use pre-cut UV protection acrylic 'glass'- lightenes the weight of the overall art object. And as most of my art collection are drawings, I need the UV protection. weight can be a real pain with framing. getting the anchor bolts right is serious business. never did that part of the job, for liability reasons.
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Post by b2r on Sept 9, 2013 0:29:09 GMT -5
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 9, 2013 0:53:17 GMT -5
That was one of my first jobs - it was in an "institution" (for lack of better words) for severely handicapped babies/children (Hydrocephalic babies, severe birth anomalies, etc. - too many to list). It was heartbreaking, yet at the same time rewarding - when you walked onto a ward and approached a crib talking and speaking their name, and got a smile or giggle from the child. Most could not communicate, let alone express how they were feeling, but you could sense it. They were all treasures. Most didn't make it past a few years, but it was rewarding just the same to help make their time here as comfortable as possible.
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 9, 2013 6:40:51 GMT -5
It's a relevant question. Under what circumstances do we acknowledge "effective" slavery, in the statistical sense that certain people reach a state of existence indistinguishable from slavery and remain there in perpetuity?
Or put differently: If an individual is legally able to better his/her circumstances, but statistically falls into a demographic where only a tiny percentage of individuals manage to do so, does the label "slave" particularly matter?
Another interesting philosophical question: Given the choice between indentured service with a high standard of living, and freedom with a low standard of living, how many of us would prefer the former over the latter? It's a tricky hypothetical. Happiness and opportunity are so intrinsically linked to freedom in our culture that freedom becomes an end unto itself. But DJ is right to ask the question; there are no physical laws equating the two. And the question becomes all the more pertinent as 'freedom' asymptotically approaches subsistence living.
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Post by The Captain on Sept 9, 2013 7:06:37 GMT -5
I always found the phrase "wage slave" interesting. Even when you work for others you always have the freedom of choice.
You can always choose to go work for someone else.
You can choose to stay with the current employer in return for providing a living for your family.
You always have choices in how you manage your career even if you stay with the same employer.
I much prefer freedom.
I challenge the good folks here to come up with a work situation where there is zero chance for any type of advancement or improvement if the individual applies them-self and stands out from their peers.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 9, 2013 7:24:37 GMT -5
Family owned business comes to mind.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 9, 2013 7:41:27 GMT -5
Using slave or slavery to describe something, that clearly isn't slavery, is like when someone uses rape to describe something.. Ravens got raped by the Broncos.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Sept 9, 2013 7:53:49 GMT -5
Family owned business comes to mind. Family owned business you can still either marry into the family, start your own business to compete, or take a pay cut to go somewhere else with more promotional opportunity. Or you could approach the owner and lay out your case to ask for a raise.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Sept 9, 2013 8:01:27 GMT -5
Ironically, it is sometimes more difficult to leave a higher level job than a scut job. I contemplated selling out the business in this last economic downturn. It was only then that I realised how inflexibly I am tied down to this place, and it was not a comfortable feeling. Fortunately I was not compelled to try to sell, but it was an eye opener for sure. I'm not suggesting that it is in any way preferable to have a scut job at all. It is not, and I am very fortunate. But I think it is an interesting side point to the discussion. Just how free are we anyway? I think there is a lot more freedom in minimum wage employment than most people realize. When I finished school I got a job working with low income families. I was paid about twice the minimum wage at the time. One thing I noticed and envied was that when they decided to go on vacation, they would just quit their job and go visit family for two months, and then come back and get another minimum wage job. Or if they hated their boss they would quit and have something else a week later. Even though my own pay was still low, it was enough that I couldn't easily quit and get something else. So I had less freedom to take vacations and express disagreement with the boss than they did. However my life was more comfortable in so many other ways that I would never trade it for the extra freedom to move around. My new sister-in-law had 6 different jobs in the year before she married BIL. She would get in disagreements with her boss and either quit or get fired, go on UI for a few weeks and get another job. Now that she is married she doesn't work and she still has this attitude that no one is the boss of her, which is an attitude I have never been able to afford. However, I still wouldn't trade as I find my life to be much more pleasant and comfortable.
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Post by Shooby on Sept 9, 2013 8:03:54 GMT -5
The problem with "scut work" is what exactly?
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Post by jkapp on Sept 9, 2013 8:21:56 GMT -5
We call it "grunge work" or "grunge jobs" here. But everyone has to start somewhere. what if you finish there? Well, IMO, then that person had zero motivation to improve him/herself or that job was the peak of their skill base. Either way, that was his/her job and he/she was paid accordingly. If it didn't pay enough to support a family of four, well, that's life. Not every job will be able to support a family. That is something the person should have taken into account before creating a family.
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Post by jkapp on Sept 9, 2013 8:24:42 GMT -5
He can also move across the street at the end of his lease. The slave cannot. Now do I think 'shitwork' is enjoyable. Nope. It sucks. Emptying nursing home bedpans comes to mind. that is precisely the kind of work i meant. find meaning in THAT. Well, I'm pretty sure the elderly residents appreciate it!
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Post by Shooby on Sept 9, 2013 8:25:41 GMT -5
The problem with "scut work" is what exactly? It's only one letter away from "scat work", and you really don't want to go there. And, the problem with scat work is what? Someone has to do it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2013 8:34:49 GMT -5
I really think it depends on your personality. Allowing for your qualification that no abuse is going on I think some people really prefer to be taken care of. They aren't ambitious and like a relaxing life, relaxing in the sense of not a lot of risk taking.
ETA - I think this refers to scut work jobs as well.
Personally I don't think either one is a good choice.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 9, 2013 9:41:25 GMT -5
The problem with "scut work" is what exactly? NOthing. But I don't want to do it. Been there, done that.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 9, 2013 9:59:09 GMT -5
I think it depends on what a given person thinks of as "scut work". What might seem "scut work" to some would be entirely different to others. Some of the duties involved in taking care of the very ill, the elderly, and/or the infirm might be considered "scut work"; however, to me that work was an opportunity to do for another what that person was unable to do for him/herself. It could just as well have been me lying there, dependent on another for the simplest tasks of everyday living. When you look at it that way, what was "scut work" becomes something very different.
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 9, 2013 10:04:31 GMT -5
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 9, 2013 10:05:30 GMT -5
Agreed. In HS and college I got my start in the dishroom and scrubbing pans. Most kids didn't want to work in that hot steamy environment so there was as many hours available to work as I wanted. I didn't consider it scut work because it enabled me to afford the education that I knew would lead to a solid job.
Plus with all the steam my skin never looked better (my hands OTOH...)
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Post by workpublic on Sept 9, 2013 10:42:18 GMT -5
I challenge the good folks here to come up with a work situation where there is zero chance for any type of advancement or improvement if the individual applies them-self and stands out from their peers.
what i do now. contractor at a large corporation. they will never hire me on, no matter how great my numbers are. I'm filling in for an employee who had a stroke. if he doesn't come back they will not hire me to fill his job. they will keep me on as a contractor. most of the contractors are better workers, more knowledgeable, than the employees we work next to doing the exact same jobs.
there's a saying at this corp regarding employees who constantly screw up and leave the contractors to clean up the mess. "same people, same problems".
when i say "contractor" i don't mean consultant. i mean low paid, no benefits, no paid time off(sick, personal, holiday) workers who corp. America use as employees. Yes i know it's illegal, but hardly nothing gets done about.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2013 10:50:35 GMT -5
i don't buy that argument. telling people to enjoy their crap jobs is telling them that their lives are worth a nickle and they can't aspire to a dime.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2013 10:51:15 GMT -5
That was one of my first jobs - it was in an "institution" (for lack of better words) for severely handicapped babies/children (Hydrocephalic babies, severe birth anomalies, etc. - too many to list). It was heartbreaking, yet at the same time rewarding - when you walked onto a ward and approached a crib talking and speaking their name, and got a smile or giggle from the child. Most could not communicate, let alone express how they were feeling, but you could sense it. They were all treasures. Most didn't make it past a few years, but it was rewarding just the same to help make their time here as comfortable as possible. God bless you, but i could NEVER do that job.
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